Don't blame MY kid...he voted for Kodos

...how do these people go to sleep at night. Poor kids, someday they will find they were used by a corrupt Liberal government...

Could it be that Elections Canada has accepted help from "election administration consultants" from King County, Washington State?

King County's elections department, and a subsequent legal fight over alleged election and balloting fraud, ultimately has made ballot-box and voter-registration fraud LEGAL in Washington State.

Does anyone in the blogosphere know if Elections Canada has been infiltrated by these scoundrels from King County, Washington (i.e. the Director of Records and Elections, Dean Logan)?

A elemantary school learning tool... printed on a laser printer on ordinary paper by teachers at school???

Easy to tell apart I think. Maybe misguided, maybe just good to teach kids about democracy (I think that they should have made some alterations to the ballots they do this with)

Hardly a scandal tho. I could vote and easily remember dimensionsm looks etc till I get home. (Just as easy to build it myself as use elections canada's mockup)

http://www.elections.ca/content_youth.asp?section=yth&dir=res/stu/gui&document=res_stu_guide_8&lang=e&textonly=false

...like I said, this election and the discovery of the Liberal slimy tenticals in all aspects of our society is sickening.

The stench, rot, dead bodies, and sludge all around us being discovered is going to make New Orleans look like a Tidy bowl.

cheers
tom

...and they're voting for dead people. I think some of you should read the title of the post. And the names on the ballot...

Oh goodie, now the ice cream party has a very good chance of winning at least a minority!

Jared...well i always did have a thing for Laura Secord...

Four dead people they might be.

But all of them had more grit, initiative and drive than most of the sorry bunch we're faced with in this election...

We can expect some Liberal "ballot magic"...actually you can count on it and this time it will be tagged..believe me...you get caught cheating the balloting system this time we are watching and there is a jail cell waiting for you. Understand that Landslide Annie wannabes!!

Don't miss the fact that these are legitimate ballots floating around --my understanding is that the teacher had to write the names in--not unlike the 'mobile ballotting' that goes on around the country to Seniors homes etc. Ballots being sent to schools or any where else that are not under close scrutiny is just asking for voting irregularities. This is wrong no matter how you look at it.

On the money George. A very good facsimile ballot is as good as a thoudand dollar bill right now to a desparate criminal regime who will employ ballot fraud as easily as they employ lies.

On the money George. A very good facsimile ballot is as good as a thousand dollar bill right now to a desparate criminal regime who will employ ballot fraud as easily as they employ lies.

I strongly agree with George and WL Mackenzie about the very high risk that these "educational" ballots could be co-mingled into the counted ballots.

Tainted ballot security measures, and inconsistent auditing safeguards, created a nightmare for voters in Washington State's 2004 election for governor. The outcome of a court challenge to the 2004 election results: the court ruled that based on existing election laws and rules of evidence, fraudulent election administration practices were "normal" and legal. Subsequent legal decisions have upheld "voters' rights" to fraudulently register in addresses where they did not actually reside.

As one of the teachers who participated in this "mock election", I can tell you what happened to the ballots. In my school, all the ballots are totalled and the numbers (not the ballots themselves) are sent to the organisation running this. For the record, they are official-looking ballots, on card stock and whatnot, with the names of the candidates for the riding the school is in on them. We instruct the students to treat them as a real ballot (i.e. only an X next to the name you're choosing is acceptable). From what I know, the organisation in charge (whose name escapes me at the moment) just wants to use the student numbers to compare against real polling numbers on the 23rd. Hope that helps.

Ian, somehow doesn't anyone question what happens to the "official-looking" once they are returned?

They want to "compare" against real polling numbers, what the hey? Isn't that was telephone survey's and such are for?

Are the students told the history of the various political parties and who the person is they are voting for, as in an intelligent presentation?

Also, where are the ballots kept? In a sealed and clearly marked box indicating not to be opened till after the electionss at Elections Canada, or the organisation in charge (whose name escapes you at the moment)...

Can you see the wide open door for of abuse here?

Egad, I wouldn't put it past the Liberals to sneak these ballots in.

I'm still putting this in the wingy speculation category, but there is the case of "we found a ballot box" Landslide Annie to consider...

well there's the Ward 10 election ballot stuffing fiasco...someone had to fill in/checkmark those I believe 1000 odd forms...

But yeah, till proven, but would be nice if someone followed up from the school (Ian - not pointing fingers here) about where those boxes actually end up.

Technically I would want to see a written statement by the organization or school showing the policy they have on handling the box(s) these came in and if they are clearly marked not to be included or opened till after the 23rd.

I mean we are dealing with a sacred facet of our society - the freedom to vote. Then again other "sacred facets" of our society have gone down the drain, so what's new?

Canada Free Press has a new and highly disturbing article on this issue here.

YUP--we can certianly trust Maude Barlow and the CBC--they are not partisan or anything

hey Lost Budgie, good to see you over here!

Just came from a scrutiners' meeting - all valid ballots are initialed by Returning Officers - this is going on now all over Canada as we speak. Ballots used in mock school elections are not going to be mistaken for the real thing unless they have been initialled by the appropriate Returning Officers for their area.

Let's not worry about this one any further.

That makes me feel better, considering the returning officers are all Liberals.

Hi WildRose

Just a few questions if I may before I turn over and go back to sleep...

1. There is no way for me to forge an inital right?

2. Did I mistake in that the students voting cards are, if not, very similar to the real thing?
Meaning why aren't they yellow or green coloured or have a hole punched through them like the old cancelled cheques - or some real obvious way of distinguishing them?

3. Who is paying for these student votes, and who dictated that the CBC get the cards?

4. What happens to the cards after the election?

5. Edmonton Centre

I'm just curious--what makes people here think that the students are all Liberals?

Hi Tomax,
Don't know that I can answer all your questions as this is the first time I've done this.

1. Of course you could forge initials, but you would have to have a sample of the actual initials of the Returning Officer for the poll you intend to use. The process is that ballots are counted at the polling stations after voting has ended. They are counted in the presence of the all the scrutineers, always supposing that each party has a scrutineer. Because of this process, the person perpetrating the fraud would have to get the fraudulent ballots into a ballot box at the polling station in full view of the officers and scrutineers. I'm not saying this can't be done, just that it would be difficult if everyone is doing their duty, which of course may be the big question.

I can't contribute anything other than personal opinions to your questions 2 to 5. As we were warned today, there are lots of ways to circumvent the system and it is the duty of election scrutineers to watch everything, complain and take notes of incidents they are concerned about to be reported to their candidate's office.

I would ask everyone here who is concerned about the possibility of election fraud if they have volunteered to act as a scrutineer for their local candidate? Sometimes, there are not enough volunteers to fulfill this function and this may leave gaps for problems to creep in. If you are concerned, DO SOMETHING - VOLUNTEER!

email form to contact Chief Electoral Officer:

http://www.elections.ca/courEL_e.asp?section=ema&document=index&dir=top&lang=e&textonly=false

Thanks WildRose for the response!

I did volunteer one time at a SAIT student council election and got into arguements over spoiled ballots, preclude to Quebec referendum I think. I'd probably get in trouble with my convictions where everyone needs to show some ID also, which funny enough at the SAIT ones we had to show a student card to vote.

I'm just curious--what makes people here think that the students are all Liberals?

It's easy to foist the socialist philosophy on the young and inexperienced. Teachers are mostly leftists and that's what they teach.

I will check on Monday with the teacher that organised the activity to make sure the ballots are destroyed. AFAIK, we only send numbers in to Student Vote, but I will find out what happens to the ballots. As for all teachers being liberal... well, no.

All the students would have been coached to vote Liberano or ND as that is where most teachers dump their affinity. This is very serious - it makes Martins words make sense - when it sounded crazy - and the 2004 election - YES it was likely a fraud - also the Quebec Referendum. It will not help much to volunteer if the scrutineers do not count every single vote at their stations and then add up the numbers at the poll reporting center - we need an interactive, relational data base set up and EVERY polling station with counts from scrutineers punched into the data bases with the poll numbers as the identification criteria. This can be done after the election, BUT the numbers MUST be there on the day of the election. It only takes a few bad DROs to make the difference between a win and a loose. Conservatives - we can save a Ukranian repeat if you can get your scrutineers to count every single voter and copy down the NAMES since there are all those advance poll voters that could be mixed with the 'school kids' ballots and or voting twice.(Maybe that is where the 'think twice' gang come from - it means 'vote twice" If we uncouver one fraud the sham will be out and the election will be called invalid We must get on this because our country is about to be stollen. I DO NOT think I am being alarmist - I smell something very "STRONG (MO STRONG!!!) in this revelation. If a Liberano wins, the results MUST be questioned. Stong owns e-speed - if e-speed is used to send the results in the jinx is up. E - speed is an internet connection thingie - someone with more know how than I should google e- speed and give us the information. This must be STOPPED.

Here's a silly thought, and I hope it's just as result of my stomach rumbling before supper...

If, and a BIG IF, Landslide Anne and other centres like Surry and such are found to be a result of voter tampering, can Mr. Martin approach Metro Jean and declare this election as (whatever the technical word is) over and continue the government?

Man, just thinking that is giving me indigestion...

cheers
tom

All the students would have been coached to vote Liberano or ND as that is where most teachers dump their affinity.

Well, thanks for that estimation of my professional abilities...

I don't know why you all are getting your knickers in a twist. You can rant all you want about kids in schools doing mock elections, but don't turn around and get all pissy about the 20% voting ratio for 18- to 24-yr-olds. You cannot have it both ways.

As for the Free Press's accusation that we are using students as CBC guinea pigs: nonsense! One of the components of the History 10 class I teach is an overview of the foundations of political thought. We go over far-right to far-left ideologies and students are encouraged to pick which ones they agree with most (with no right or wrong answers). Many students pick "libéral" (BTW, I teach in French) choices because the foundations of liberal thinking are actually closer to libertarianism, and if there is one thing a 16-yr-old wants, it's freedom. I'm very careful to tell them that no extant political party holds many of the positions originally associated with them. Students come to understand the difference between classic conservatism and Conservative, and classic liberalism and Liberal. There's no agenda.

Teaching students the processes of democracy allows them to more fully participate in those processes when they reach 18.

Ian - good for you! Wish more would do this.

cheers
tom

"Ian - good for you! Wish more would do this."

I second that. I can't believe the rampant paranoia we're seeing here. It's the tinfoil helmet kind of stuff that leads to thoughts of "International Jewish Conspiracies" and the like. Kate, at least, seems to be a little bemused by it all ["Settle Down"].

I've being trying to track the scenario. Kids mark ballot-like cards. These are collected by teachers who have brainwashed them all to vote Liberal. Just to be sure, the occasional Conservative, Green or NDP ballot is weeded out. Kids suspected of having defaced their ballots in this manner are sent to re-education camp--euphemistically called "detention."

Meanwhile, the ballots are collected by black trucks at the dead of night. Now comes the hard part--shoving them into ballot boxes under the watchful eyes of bribed DROs. [Why the ballots aren't simply produced in underground bunkers and marked by experts escapes me--why not avoid the risky teacher/school/kids/media/parents/watchful bloggers problem right at the start?]

Result: a Liberal landslide, even in Alberta. The pollsters call it "the twentieth poll election." Much blinking of eyes. Harper steps down as leader, to be replaced by David Orchard. Centrist peace reigns in the land. People like me rub their hands and grin wickedly. Another hidden agenda thwarted. Nyah-ha-ha-ha! Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Fade to black.

Excellent, Ian H! This certainly speaks to the issues we are experiencing with young people who choose not to vote. I believe that there is certainly a place for basic Civics being taught / discussed with young people and that it would encourage more of them to become engaged in the process. It may also offer some answers to one of the problems with this election - voters who are ignorant and easily scared by unscrupulous politicians (not mentioning any names of course!)

Slightly off topic: we took our Scout troop to the DQ this week - sometimes mentoring youth and ice cream go well together - and the topic of the Federal election came up. I explained that it was their duty to vote (when they are old enuf) as democracies must be supported by citizens for them to work. Freedom is not free and our freedom and the right to vote has been paid for in blood by our veterans. And you don't dare disrespect that.

I didn't notice while I was talking but there was an older mall security guard having his coffee at a table next to us. He retrieved one of our youth's dropped winter gloves as he was leaving and I thanked him. He replied that he wanted to thank us for what we said about veterans and, with eyes suspiciously moist, turned and quickly walked away. I was kinda speechless at the time, but in retrospect I think that the recent Liberal ad about our military in our cities has conveyed a message of disrespect and contempt to our military and veterans that has had its impact in a lowering of morale. To me, this is emblematic of all the things that are wrong with the Federal Govt and the attitudes of some Canadians. And nothing will change until the govt changes. Enough - time to change!!

Student Vote runs these mock elections across the country, as well as during provincial elections. Their mandate is to increase the level of political knowledge and literacy amongst Canadians by holding mock elections at the same time as real ones. Research shows that the major cause for the decline in the voting rate is the decline of political knowledge and sense of civic responsibility amongst Canada's youth. This program is meant to, in some way, counter that decline. It is not a polling organization. Student Vote is a legitimate organization, but don't take my word for it. Just take a look at its list of supporters. I find it hard to believe that Alberta's Ministry of Learning is involved in some Liberal scam. And if you look at the results for the Alberta provincial election, the results model fairly well upon the real results. So I doubt that the students are being "brainwashed" to vote only Liberal.

Anyone looking to learn more about the research on civic literacy should check out Henry Milner's work at the IRPP.

We go over far-right to far-left ideologies and students are encouraged to pick which ones they agree with most (with no right or wrong answers). Many students pick "libéral"

No right or wrong answers? Well, isn't that just dandy, communism, fascism (another form of communism) and all?

No doubt further confusing the issue by ignorantly teaching fascism is on the right, next door to conservative.

"I've being trying to track the scenario. Kids mark ballot- like cards. These are collected by teachers who have brainwashed them all..."

That doesn't happen until university.

No doubt further confusing the issue by ignorantly teaching fascism is on the right, next door to conservative.
Benito Mussolini's fascism is right next to conservatism. Learn some history. We also say communism is on the left, next to socialism, but I suppose you don't have a problem with that.

Benito Mussolini's fascism is right next to conservatism. Learn some history.

Leftists are always wrong. It always amuses me when leftists use fascism as an insult to the right when, in reality, they're insulting their brothers.

http://www.mises.org/web/2674

Fascism... believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace... War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have the courage to meet it... It may be expected that this will be a century of authority, a century of the Left, a century of Fascism. For the nineteenth century was a century of individualism... [Liberalism always signifying individualism], it may be expected that this will be a century of collectivism, and hence the century of the State... For Fascism, the growth of Empire, that is to say, the expansion of the nation, is the essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite is a sign of decay and death. --Benito Mussolini

Fascism is recognized as a variation of other forms of collectivism, all being part of the Left, as opposed to the Right, which is individualism. It was not until the "Red Decade" of the 30s, and the appearance of Hitler, that leftist intellectuals and the media began to switch Fascism on the political spectrum to the Right so that the "good forms of collectivism," such as socialism, could oppose the "extremism on the Right" which they said was fascism.

The founder of fascism clearly realized that all of these collectivist ideas, i.e., socialism, fascism and communism, belonged on the Left and were all opposed to individualism on the Right. Fascism is not an extreme form of individualism and is a part of the Left, or collectivism.

Nonsense, Hoss. Some quotations from Adolf Hitler to set you straight:

"Hence all inventions are the result of the creative faculty of the individual. And all such individuals, whether they have willed it or not,
are the benefactors of mankind, both great and small. Through their work millions and indeed billions of human beings have been provided with means and resources which facilitate their struggle for existence.

"Thus at the origin of the material civilization which flourishes today we always see individual persons. They supplement one another and
one of them bases his work on that of another. The same is true in regard to the practical application of those inventions and discoveries. For all the various methods of production are in their turn inventions also and consequently dependant on the creative faculty of the individual. Even in purely theoretical work, which can not be measured by a definite rule and
is preliminary to all subsequent technical discoveries, is exclusively the product of the individual brain. The broad masses do not invent, nor does the majority organize or think; but always and in every case the individual
man, the person."

"Therefore not only does the organization possess no right to prevent men of brains from rising above the multitude but, on the contrary, it must
use its organizing powers to enable and promote that ascension as far as it possibly can. It must start out from the principle that the blessings of
mankind never came from the masses but from the creative brains of individuals, who are therefore the real benefactors of humanity. It is in
the interest of all to assure men of creative brains a decisive influence and facilitate their work. This common interest is surely not served by
allowing the multitude to rule, for they are not capable of thinking nor are they efficient and in no case whatsoever can they be said to be gifted.
Only those should rule who have the natural tempermant and gifts of leadership."

"Though all human civilization has resulted exclusively from the creative activity of the individual, the principle that it is the mass
which counts--through the decision of the majority-- makes its appearance only in the administration of the national community especially in the higher grades; and from their downwards the poison gradually filters into
all branches of national life, thus causing a veritable decomposition.

"Marxism represents the most striking phase
to eliminate the dominant significance of personality in every sphere of human life and replace it by the numerical power of the masses. In politics the parlimentary form of government is the expression of this effort. We
can observe the fatal effects of it everywhere, from the smallest parish council upwards to the highest governing circles of the nation. In the
field of economics we see the trades union movement, which does not servthe real interests of the employees but the destructive aims of
[--]."

"If [we] should fail to understand the
fundamental importance of the essential principle, if it should merely varnish the external appearance of the present State and adopt the majority principle, it would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its
own ground."

"The best constitution and the best form of government is that which makes it quite natural for the best brains to reach a position of dominant importance and influence in the community."

Good grief, you can read this kind of stuff every day over at Shotgun. :)

Mussolini himself preferred the term "corporatism" to fascism because he thought it best described the environment for businesses that he was trying to set up. The left is about nationalizing business (eg Stalin), where the right tends to let businesses operate independently within a set of rules.

Furthermore, Mussolini was a failed socialist. During the 1st WW, he abandoned his socialist newspaper and (to the shock of many who knew him) joined the army. When WWI was finished, he started a new newspaper dedicated to ferreting out and destroying socialism in Italy. One of the most strenuous moments in WWII for the Axis came when Mussolini found out that Hitler had signed a non-agression treaty with Stalin. Mussolini saw it as a betrayal, since he was running Italy openly opposed to socialism in all its forms (outlawing unions, for instance).

There are various kinds of socialism. It's no mystery that the proponents of each kind didn't get along.

Mussolini and Hitler practiced the kind that left private industry in private hands but the gov't controlled what and how much was produced.

Not unlike "Third Way" socialism presently being practiced. The partnership of gov't and corporations.

The close relationship of fascism and Third Way socialism is, no doubt, the reason leftist shrieks are immediately heard when it's pointed out that fascism is on the left.

My wife is a returning officer and after explaining the process to me I'm quite satisfied there won't be any ballot box stuffing at the polling station. Ballots are initialed by the RO, given to a voter and returned to the RO. Total ballots in the box must equal total ballots given to RO at start of day. Votes are tabulated and phoned in to the constituency head office. Then the boxes are sealed and delivered to a central point.

What disturbs me about the school voting system is that the CBC has results from a "poll" that I think is much more reliable than normal telephone polls. And I don't think for one second that someone at the CBC would not make it available to the PM. That makes me sick.

Horny Toad