yup

No, Harper actually looks like a Prime Minister.

I loved his opening statement.

So far, so good.

Did PMPM really just say that having more women in Parliament would "play well"?

Standing 8 count.

yes kate harper is doing a great job and martin is getting it from every direction
my 12 yearold is laughing at martin too
blue in the ottawa valley !

Duceppe:

"Mr. Martin is a living democratic deficit."

Oh my GOD, that has to hurt. OUCH!!

Quebecers will cutting Mr. Martin a new one on the Options Canada stuff.

Martin keeps stammering. He's no good at this.

Harper's keeping his cool and Martin sounds mad.

On the electoral question Harper blew em away.

Criminal justice: Harper is sweeping the floor

Liberals have had 13 years to do something. Etc.

Looking strong and authoritative.

Martin has no shame, on IT and Options Canada, he claims these are only allegations, not criminal investigations. He claims only Lie-beral's speak the truth. Loser! Go, Stephen, Go!!!

And NOW Martin says that most of the guns are coming from 'the homes of citizens'... NOT From across the border as they have tried to say until now..Martin is an idiot!
Stephen Harper is outstanding on all issues...
Duceppe cuts Martin a new one too!

It is painful to watch Martin - how can he actually believe what he is saying?

I note Kate's blog entry that Harper's kicking Martins ass...and everyone's comments above seem to agree with that.

Yet the CBC article, just posted, puts a pro-Martin, anti-Harper spin: Martin proposes a Constitutional Amendment essentially eliminating the Notwithstanding Clause and "...But Harper rejected Martin's offer."

NAH, no pro-Liberal bias at the CBC...

Scott Reid should be due in Martin's corner with a new pair of Depends underwear any minute now.

ekos 43-29 woo hoo

Harper's cool, calm and collected. Martin's twitchy, nervous and stumbling. Layton's just trying. Duceppe doesn't seem to want to be there.

The PM resembles the tomato cans that Mike Tyson used to pole axe in 3 rounds early in his career. If he were a pet and I was a vet I'd be administering a sedative right now as he looks a mite wired on catnip.

Jack and Paulie shamelessly pandering to women.

Paulie proposes to restrict the federal government from ever using the not-withstanding clause thereby establishing the supremacy of the courts, then he's hit with the swinger decision.

He's cutting his own throat!!!

I sure like the format change, lots more mixing it up.

Go Harper!!!

Syncro

Folks keep the comments coming, so some of us not watching can get the drift. Thanks.

Where in Hell is this moderator from? I cannot believe the loaded questions, and the lead ins!

A moderator is supposed to impartial isn't he/she?

Is anyone else here getting sick of PMPM's hands flailing all around?

Did Martin just say they would take the money from well-off Canadians? Haven't we had enough of that kind of robbery?

paulie wants a time out for who maybe the moderator or for him!

Same tired old Paul Martin, but was expecting him to do his "chicken little" routine

During the ongoing Leaders' Debate tonight, Martin stated that a Liberal government will remove the "Notwithstanding" Clause from the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms - making the Supreme Court of Canada a virtual oligarchy: unaccountable and unelected.

Lost Budgie, I heard the exact same thing, what a moron.

As much as I despise Martin he is fairing better than I expected, except when they show him when others are speaking he is either gritting his teeth or looking like a total bufonn.

Re removal of notwithstanding clause

Paul Martin's favourite movie

http://ca.movieposter.com/poster/MPW-10112/Say_Anything.html

Wade,

We here at SDA prefer "Maroon" to to "Buffoon"

ken

JACK! and his continuing "third option"...keeps reminding me of the "third rail"....

Just watched Layton climb into bed with Martin, how many others noticed it? You have to realize that if Harper doesn't get a clear cut majority then we will not see a change in government in this country, we're going to see a SSM.

Jack reminds of a third wheel.

Ooops. Shouldn't try typing and watching the tube at the same time. Missed a "me".

Soccer moms don't like shouting and arguing, so the debate format becomes this snoozefest. It works for Harper I suppose, along with Duceppe muddling the waters it takes away the hot button moments, which Paul Martin sees as his only hope. Martin is trying desperately for the magic soundbite but it's not happening.

Is it just me or does Paulie get more "discretionary" rebuttals?

Crb: As long as Harper can do a good job of answering the questions, I think he'll come out ahead.

Pity the cameraman following Martin. The poor sap is really earning his keep tonight.

Ducceppe talking about an agricutlture bill worked on by the three parties with heavy resitance from the Liberals. Martin turns it around and says Harper is the only one that didn't support it. Ducceppe looks at Martin with a look of surprise and then looks at Harper with a "are you going to take this BS?" look on his face.

Gee, who's telling lies again!?

Wow....you might actually believe this was Prime Minister Harper defending his record against Leader of the Opposition Paul Martin.

Little will change other than freeze where people are.

Still 30 minutes to go but barring a banana peal we can lock this one down.

Ooops..unity.....tick tock...hmm nope no screw ups except Jack. Proving he is sitting at the Big Persons table.

Monte Solberg borrowed Rosemarie Thompson's blackberry to post on her blog. http://rosemary-thompson.electionblog.ctv.ca/default.asp?item=129935

"Oops breaking news. Paul says his new number one priority is childcare. Well, childcare and education. I guess they have knocked values and aboriginal issues out of one and two."

"Or is it gassing the nothwithstanding clause. What happened to Paul's committment to use the clause to protect religious freedom if the Supremes ever started to erode those freedoms. Can't have it both ways Paul."

"Better go now. Rosemary is missing her BlackBerry so."

I have to get Mr. Harper in here by rules???

As I said previously 'Where is this SOB of a moderator from?

CRB

My Gawd!! He's ANGRY!
Quick, line up the kittens for PMPM's post-debate feast...

CRB, to answer your question, "Where is this SOB of a moderator from?"

He's from the CBC, the Grits' lefty mouthpiece and propaganda organ. Paid for with your tax dollars.

crb,

Ok he's from TV Ontario. Generally I thought he was doing a good job. I thought he let Martin and Duceppe go to far and wouldnt let Harper in, then cut him off.

A little odd.

Hey its a hockey game. I suspect he'll correct. He's a decent guy and wrote a great biography on John Robarts, a greta Ontario Conservative premier. I wouldnt assume he's a Liberal

Martin is too angry to be PM.

I think Paul just gained the copyright on 'Fundamentally'

Paulie is sure digging a hole on national unity.

Anyone else notice that almost all the time, the only debater this moderator cuts off is Harper?

Can't get a fix on what Disease-Of-The-Month it represents, but what's the white rubber bracelet on JACK!'s right wrist in support of?

PM is an angry, bordering on irrational.

I caught the comeback Harper made to Martin about refusing to debate Duceppe. a zinger.

WOW! Martin has imploded! "MY VALUES ARE THE SAME AS QUEBECERS WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT!"

"By the way...doesn't my swaying make me look like I'm about to break into song?"

Did anyone else catch Martin say that the lack of federal funding to aboriginals is the "root cause of poverty."

If Canadians are still willing to vote for this dancing baffoon after tonight, well, I guess I just "don't share their values."

Paulie is saying "vey,very" an awfull lot.

I loved it when Mr. Harper called PM on the fact that twice he has tried to engage Mr Duceppe in a debate (during this debate)and that fact was that Mr. Duceppe HAD challanged PM to a debate and Paulie turned him down! Mr. Harper said he had expecpted the challenge. GO! HARPER! GO! Paulie's going to pee anytime soon.....Haper looks VERY GOOD!

Paul "SAY ANYTHING' Martin

Oh my goodness, is there any position this guy hasnt held?

I am beginning to miss da little guy from shawinigan....he did this schtick so much better.

Hey Layton - the NDP HAS been our third choice for 40 years. Take the hint.

"Uh, uh, the fact is, uh....". If Martin flails his arms just a little faster, he might develop enough airspeed to fly around the room.

Can't believe what I'm hearing. We've had Martin call Aboriginals the root cause of poverty, we've got Jack talking simpleton rhetoric, finishing off each answer with paraphrasing "vote for me", and we have Gilles basically radicalizing the Quebec electorate. Holy smokes, I smell a Conservative majority.

Martin wants American style system where courts make the laws. Interesting.

Haven't read the posts but did anyone else here Martin call Quebec a Nation?

Dam straight Kate!! The idiot cut his own throat with with the not-withstanding proposition!!!!

It's only a matter of time until the Liberal courpse bleeds out, about two weeks I guess!!!

Syncro

SDC,

At least he isnt doing the "girlie" cheer....you know the one where the upper arms are kept close to the body while the forearms flail....

Harper's good! "Every day in this campaign,we have had a sound double policy announcement". The other parties are now jumping on board and using our policies. Close to those words....

Notwithstanding Clause jsut about burned whatever credibility this guy had.

Imagine it came from a brainwave Scott Reid had while he was tossing a ball in the air laying on his bed thinking about how he can get back in the big guys books.

Get rid of the of the Notwithsatnding Clause....yeah thats the ticket.....

God whats next? They will SAY ANYTHING....ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING

Duceppe clearly fears the potential of the Consevatives in Quebec, with his attempt at trying to include the Conservatives in the Options Canada Scandal. Interesting, because the Bloq would be deprived of their 50% + 1 of the vote in Quebec.

Watching this last bit on Global website: Martin does not sound too good but I sadly note that the opening statements ratings on the Global site has him at 3 stars and everyone else only 2???

closing statements, Harper sounds cool calm and above the schoolyard bickering. Go Stephen!

Good closing statement by Harper, a little self depreciation and solid policy statement to end. The impression that's left.........A man with ideas who isn't arrogant or smug.....I smell majority!!!!!

Syncro

The Notwithstanding Clause.....kiss Paulie's Quebec support goodbye.....oh my goodness....

Kiss Landslide Annie Goodbye

Kate....what will the effect on Ralph be.

What a stupid stupid move....typical Liberal promise...promise something you'll never have to fulfill. Alberta, Quebec absolutely against it.

So Martin is willing to live with Challoui?

What a freakin muddle..........

Harper won. And Duceppe is right, Quebec is a Nation. So hold a referendum. Good luck to us all

Oh, I am SO enjoying watching that weasel Martin roast slowly on a spit in front of the media for a change :-)

http://www.answers.com/topic/section-thirty-three-of-the-canadian-charter-of-rights-and-freedoms?gwp=19

A little off the topic. The first debate Layton mentioned Ed Broadbent's accountability act at every chance he could. Not one mention tonight. Any thoughts from this crowd to an explanation?

Hey how about promising to get rid of the reserve power of the GG

Oh my goodness listening to this guy talk about the Notwithstanding clause..........now religous freedoms are being said to be paramount.....so who decides when this paramount religous freedom runs into a paramount individual right....the court...there are no absolutes here..typical Liberal response, the court made me do it....

Martin looked waaaaay to angry, and scary! He looked like he could bite the head off of a live rat! Now we've seen his hidden agenda with the not withstanding clause!

Jeff-
"Haven't read the posts but did anyone else here Martin call Quebec a Nation?"

If I heard it correctly he said: "I've used the word nation, Ive said it many times before".

He just scared the shit out of most canadians over 35 who remember the constitutional battles of the 80's.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to return to the divisions of this period.

Syncro

Layton sure seemed proud of his SMALL CAUCUS!!

it drives me frikking nuts when Martin claims to be from Quebec, which he often does. he was born in Windsor, Ontario! it's almost like he's ashamed of that little factoid. what a maroon.

Pre vs Post IPSO-Reid on-line poll question: If election held tomorrow who would win? Funny, the totals equal 101% ???

The interviews with toronto barflyies scares me. Must be the water up there.

Layton and sometimes Martin seemed intent on stoking class warfare: Layton: "we will work for working people" (what, my family is not a working family because we are not "working"class); Martin: we will take money from the well off and "redistribute" it; Canada is not a "fend for yourself country"?
These socialists/marxists/communists should be called out for what they are.
Communism: a great Canadian value - puke

Stephen Harper won this debate hands down. Cool, articulate, honest and standing his ground on the issues, laying them out completely once again, standing for the average Canadian.
Paul Martin is TOAST after that irrational remark about the nothwithstanding clause.
Jack Layton, oh, Jack Layton....what an idiot...

Kelly,

Have you been to Windsor? :->

Didnt you hear him tonight...he is a Quebecer but he is from Essex county as well...a farming family no less.....ick

Gilles Duceppe?? Trying hard to paint the Conservatives in a bad light due to the polls showing them coming along in Quebec... Gilles did not do himself any good except for nailing the Liberals for their scandals..and rightly so.
The French Debates tomorrow night are his area to shine, but separation and the talk of "We are a nation" do nothing for me regarding the unity of Canada.
They are not a nation. They are a PROVINCE in THIS nation and it is time they understood that.
Duceppe has legitimate concerns regarding provincial issues, but this talk " WE are a NATION" loses me completely!

Paul Martin wants to get rid of the NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE...

He wants to give All the powers to judges who are UNELECTED ..Political Patronage hacks...

And THERE we have it!

Paul Martin wants to get rid of the NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE...

He wants to give All the powers to judges who are UNELECTED ..Political Patronage hacks...

And THERE we have it!

abolish the not withstanding clause? he's showing his true colors now and when the hell did that come up? as I understand it that clause is the only recourse governments have against the SCoC. anyone wanna talk about hidden agendas now?

The average Canadian does not understand or ever care about the specifics of the constitution. It is too detailed and convoluted.
However, the average Canadian understands a cut in the GST to 5%, $1,200 for childcare, tax credit for transit users and hockey moms.
Conservative majority coming up!

Jack Layton: "We are concerned about Canada's working families . . ."
Me (to TV): "Well, Jack, why don't you ask Bev Desjarlais about 'Canada's working families'?"

We thought Martin had pretty much lost it (all that sputtering, and the arms-flailing thing was really bad) and that Harper was great, really relaxed; it was funny (in a sad kind of way) to watch the Global post-program and see Harper get downgraded, and Martin get upgraded, over the course of the half-hour. And one of the Toronto barflies: "I'd pretty much made up my mind to vote against the Liberals, but now Martin's made me reconsider, I'm so confused" . . . you've *got* to be kidding!

As P. J. O'Rourke wrote apropos of the 1990 Nicaraguan election (when everyone thought the Sandinistas would win): "One thing about being conservative, at least you can't be disappointed by 'the people'."

Kate, I love this site. I have never posted here before - happy to remain in the background observing the intelligent banter. Tonight's debate sealed the deal for me - I am now officially scared of another Liberal government, minority or otherwise.

I can't possibly describe the betryal I am feeling towards our own Prime Minister....

I encourage everyone to check out my Blog comments at http://cronicbny.blogspot.com as I couldn't possibly type anything more relevant.

To a point - The Notwithstanding clause is the only thing that made the Charter remotely palpable. The courts have, for far too long, had too much power in this country.

I am honestly scared. We MUST vote for anyone except the Liberal party. Democracy requires a voice for the people. Paul Martin suggests we should give our collective voices to the courts and the courts alone.

Sheer idiocy.

I agree with most everything posted thus far, but why do I get a feeling in the pit of my stomach that Ontarians saw a different debate? I get it every election...

Also, nothing said so far about Martin's apparent need to grab "500,000 handguns" from collectors throughout Canada (see: law-abiding citizens) to protect Toronto citizenry. If it's the guns that kill people, my keyboard causes all of my spelling mistakes. Punish the criminals... please!

Best line of the debate has to go to Gilles, speaking to Martin:
"You campaign like an NDP and govern like a Tory."

Anyone got a job opening for a slightly used finance minister?

Looks rough but runs(away!) well.

Has some international shipping experience, including but not limited to moving flags around. Willing to say "anything" for the job, and very loyal....no matter how corrupt you are!!

Also bilingual tells two versions of same story depending the audiences needs!
Flexible.

Does anybody get the impression that Martin is being set up by his own party? Maybe they don't mind sitting this one out because they know what a liability he is. I can't believe he pulled the NWC issue out of the hat. Somebody must have known he wanted to do away with it. And who would want the flakes on the bench having the ultimate authority? What a scary country Martin's Canada has become.

Good one Paul!

After watching that would it ever be refeshing to have Stephen Harper represent us on the international stage. Martin, and Chretien before him were / are embarassments.

Wade, perhaps this will answer your question.

Harper was asked by reporters as to what areas the NDP and Conservatives could agree on to work together. Harper's reply was ethics, integrity, & etc. A neat reply by Harper. Layton in effect said, No way would Layton work with Harper on ethics. Here is CBC:

Harper says he could find common ground with NDP
Last Updated Thu, 05 Jan 2006 21:56:55 EST
CBC News

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper has suggested he could find common ground with the NDP if the Tories were elected to lead a minority government.

Harper said Thursday he would be willing to work with the NDP on issues such as ethics and accountability.

"They saw the wisdom of defeating the present government we have today, so I would hope they would see the wisdom of making the next federal government work better," Harper said after a news conference in Toronto.

"The federal NDP, regardless of the philosophical differences I have with them on a range of issues, has long been concerned with ethics and integrity in politics ...There is an example of a matter I hope to work with them [on]."

NDP Leader Jack Layton repeatedly deflected questions on Thursday about working with a Conservative government.

Instead, he said the Tories have little in common with the NDP and are "offside with the views of a great majority of Canadians" on most issues, including abortion. >>>
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2006/01/05/harper-layton060105.html

Saying he would remove the notwithstanding clause should be the nail in the coffin. I just hope the general public figure out what it means in the next 2 weeks.

I can't believe too many people would be willing to allow unelected judges decide everything for us.

ridersrqr8

Canadians had better find out what deleting the Notwithstanding Clause means. Parliament would be neutered and become nothing more than an advisory council to the ruling non-elected supreme court.

By the way, when did we become a nation of minorities?
I thought we were a nation of Canadians.

The abandon the Notwithstanding Clause must be right out of left field. Ask your Liberal MP whether that has ever been discussed in caucus. I will Thursday evening.

Western Critic, I agree 100%. The last two PM's have been a embarrassment. Mr. Harper will make us proud when he represents us on the international stage.

Hey I would be for eliminating the NWC....if we had confirmation of judges, proper oversight on the comittee reviewing them, a strong history of bipartisanship and clear seperation of powers....i.e. we lived in the United States.

We dont? then leave it in there and if you dont want to use it when you are in government then don't.

After checking out the various media the story seems to be the desperate attampt by Martin on the NWC (as oppossed to NWA) I am now taking bets on how many hours this last till the Liberals forget they made this promise and talk about something else.

Inside the Liberal War Room an amazing finger pointing war goes on...it was his idea, no his, no hers, no theirs.....leading to hair pulling and eye gouging and Scott Reid giving David Herle a wedgie, just because he is the fat kid with glasses....

Man this thing looks like Kim Campbell in 1993 or Turner in 1984...the cycle of the incompetent successor holds true.

Zoorry. I'm pizzt sintz eye've bin playing the Paul Marting drinking game.

Rules:

1. PM says "fundamentally"...drink.
2. Pm says "clearly"...drink.
3. PM says "clearly and fundamentally"...3 drinks of something clear and fundamental...like vodka.
4. PM stares stupidly ahead while being addressed aggressively by Duceppe...drink a Molson Export.
5. PM throws hail mary by promising to reopen constitution in a bid to make Stephen Harper wet himself...drink until you wet yourself.

Goodnight now.

Martin's NWC abolishment idea is simply a Lie-beral ruse designed to distract attention away from all of the ongoing scandal and criminal investigations. There is no need to waste time on it, keep firing the scandal torpedos, as General Hans has been ecouraging us to do. Give'em hell!!!

MARTIN IS FINISHED!

You watch tomorrow, Mr. Martin has opened up a can of worms with the NWC that is going to make his scandal headaches seem like the best sex he's ever had.

We are going to see Church Leaders, Premiers, and every nut job on either side of the coin (including yours truly) heaping the scorn on Martin for this one.

Regarding the Not Withstanding Clause: What kind of a moron would remove the only thing standing between the will of the people and the will of a non-elected judge?

Is it possible that it was not a team decision and that Martin made it up on the spot?

Is it possible that Martin heaped this one onto the pile to draw out some of the less desireable members of the CPC to publically say something to sink the entire CPC campaign?

BMan

What about "The fact is"..

If Martin removed that phrase from his vocabulary, he could communicate twice as much information.

No more Smilin' Jack; now we have Smilin' Harper.

confiscation of registered firearms for crime control as per PMPM, lets take a page from Ms Condoleeza Rice "if local authorities had had lists of registered weapons...her father and other blacks would not have been able to defend themselves", of course this is not 1963 in Alabama but her point is valid in Canada today. IMO.

Excellent, thoughtful response from Mr Spector on the NWC debacle

http://www.members.shaw.ca/nspector4/MIND.htm

I especially like the letter from PET to Cardinal Carter.

While I am not catholic I wonder how happy the church is with Mr Martin now, as if they werent already pissed...in an appropriately Christian manner of course....

If it is that bad even Mr Volpe and Mr Bevilaqua might be in trouble....

Here's something else to consider. Is it possible that the evidence that Normand Lester cited in his book about Option Canada which he released today was given him by Liberal party insiders (a.k.a. Jean Chretien loyalists) seeking to sabotage Paul Martin's campaign?

Consider that he was given an anonymous tip that this evidence, the very same evidence that separatists have been searching for since 1995, including copies of cheques made out to Liberal "volunteers" and one of Paul Martin's current cabinet ministers, would be found inside a garbage can in an alley.

Since when do accountants put damning evidence in the trash without first shredding it?

This was a setup. And the timing was perfect! It's no wonder Martin looks so twitchy. There is a mole in his camp and it's crawling up his ass.

Amusing anecdote: I was standing behind Rosemary Thompson when Monte hijacked it.

Small world.

I just listened to the post-debate phone in show on CPAC. It is amazing the degree to which people can interpret the debate so differently based largely on their long held ideology. It is clear from the callers they had on from across the country that the Lieberals should continue to do well in wooing the stupid/loser vote!

Is it just me, or is it everytime that Jack Layton talked I felt like I was watching some stupid info-mercial on late night television? I kept expecting a 1-800 number to flash up on the screen and Jack to start saying "Call now, our operators are standing by," and how for just 30 cents a day we can sponsor a child in the NDP campaign. Having said that, Martin-o has definitely shot his own foot off with the NWSC, and Harper was brilliant in his rebuttal. Duceppe is going to absolutely DESTROY Martoon in tomorrow's French Language Debate with that one. And as for Jack Layton, if you call the number on your screen right now.....

Bagadonitz:

I concur that may have been the intent.

But Harper and the rest of the campaign won't bite.
I also recommend anyone remotely connected to the CPC campaign to do like wise, the proper response being "don't be absurd, there's no way you can do this without reopening the constitution like they tried and failed with the Meech and Charlottetown Accords"

The rest of the constitutional experts however are free to commence firing.

Randon reactions:

I like studio lights... those on-top-of-the-camera lights at scrums always make Harper's deep-sunken eyes look somewhat undead.

Martin just lasooed a unicorn with the NWC idea... and he broke its horn off. Isn't there a curse associated with that?

Please don't presume to know what I want to do with my kids before Kindergarten.

At first I was confused when Martin said the CPC child care plan would be $1 per day. But now I can see how... under Martin's Liberal logic, the other $2.33 would be discreetly going to some backroom crony.

I just got a woodie watching Martin implode, but everytime they cut to Jack it went away. hahaha

By suggesting we remove the Notwithstanding Clause Martin proved that a bargain means nothing to him. As others here have pointed out the Provincial Premiers wouldn’t have agreed to the Charter without the Notwithstanding Clause.

Martin is prepared to sweep away the bargain entered into by this second generation of "fathers of the constitution" if it will win him another term. Incredible. Paul Martin -the grinch who stole the constitution.

This is very revealing. Martin believes it is okay for one side of a bargain to arbitrarily withdraw an essential term of " the contract " (so long as there is some political advantage to gain.) The man is ethically challenged.

It would be interesting to hear what the Provincial Premiers think of this.

Secondly, he proves that his "Liberal Values" do not include the value of democracy. Harper’s answer that our Constitution strikes the right balance between the powers of the Courts and the powers of Parliament ( the people ) was perfect.

Let’s ride this issue to a majority.

As a Tory, I'm feeling sorry for the Jiberals. I had this faint feeling of voting pity two days before the last election but holy crap, didn't act on it. Stay humble folks. The electorate is swung on modesty. Pretend you are losing to finish strong Harper. As an Aussie myself, John Howard rules. Damn pleased to see you take a page from his book. Saskatoon will deliver the seats.

Removing the notwithstanding clause frightens me and just might show the Liberal's true agenda, to slowly turn Canada into a dictatorship. Paul Martin as Prime Minister wants the Power to Appoint a Supreme Authority in the land - free of parliamentary approval - that cannot be overruled by parliament.

THIS SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!

CanadianTruth

And so it should. It scares the hell out of me, And I don't scare easily.

"The Firearms Act is about licensing and registration, not confiscation."
- Former Justice Minister Anne McLellan, 1998.

"There are 500,000 handguns in the hands of collectors. They are one break-in away from being used in a crime. The mayor of Toronto has pointed out it is handguns stolen from homes that are killing people. We've got to stop that. We've got to ban handguns."
- Prime Minister Paul Martin, 2006.

tranio @ 11:07 - excellent idea about asking your local Liberal MP/candidate about that NWC thing. Even though my husband's definitely voting Cons. (and I can't vote), I'm calling up Anne McLellan's office first thing in the morning . . . heh heh. Enquiring minds want to know (as the old ad in the US said).

Paul Martin just called for the abolition of democracy in Canada. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Martin thinks the public will accept his values: that ultimately public policy should be decided, not by elected representatives, but by an unelected, unaccountable body, who can do what they want because they are the ultimate arbiters of their own power.

Apparently Martin has never heard of Lord Acton.

And he thinks the Canadian public is brain dead.

Martin looked too angry and with his brand new stance on the NWC...he looks very scary leading us down a very dangerous road. I think he has finally snapped.

Harper....what can you say...decisive...stuck to the message...could not be baited..outstanding job

Layton...low on coffee. This guy needed to be propped up but I give him a thumbs up for not saying "Ed Broadbent" ad nausem.

Duceppe...baited Martin into the Qubec as a nation subject. I enjoy watching him and his classic “Mr. Martin is a living democratic deficit”...will live on in infamy!

Paikin...this stickfigure disgusted me with he crime question regarding the RCMP murder...the cop in Qubec and the Boxing Day Bloodbath. We know where he was going...but took a wrong turn to get there.

Still trying to figure out how aboriginals are the cause of poverty.

[Caveat: this is my lazy re-post from Angry's site]

Hilarious bait-and-switch on the NWC by Dithers, and good summary of why it's essential to all Canadians.

Contrary to Paul Martin's huffing and puffing, the Constitution IS a flawed document; even by enshrining language rights into its pages, morons Trudeau, Chretien et al still couldn't get Quebec to buy into it. The NWC was added to the Constitution BECAUSE of the inherent flaws in the document; it was necessary to get everyone else to sign it. Now Dithers wants to remove the clause?

The NWC is Parliament's only recourse to our increasingly activist Supreme Court of Canada. Harper hinted at this, albeit in a much less blunted manner. For heaven's sake, Dithers added 2 more social engineers to the bench last year to help ram through SSM, and now he wants to nail the door closed on that debate by effectively hamstringing Parliament from dissenting with this unelected handful of social tinkerers? Of course he's comfortable with this idea: there's enough lefties on the SCC to support any liberal pitch for the next 20 years.

SIGNIFICANT DITHERS QUOTES ON THE CONSTITUTION:

"The Constitution protects our religious freedoms". Huh? Like the way it's protected the Catholic Church in its objections to SSM, or even individual citizens, pace Bill C250, who dare to publicly object to same or even to question homosexuality in general? How about that great protection of the Toronto printer forced by a human rights tribunal to not only print gay literature that offended his religious beliefs, but to pay the gay couple several thousand dollars in punative compensation?

Dithers also noted the Constitution "protects our language rights", which was sly of him and may be true, but is also light years away from what it should protect but doesn't: our right to free speech.

"I don't think the courts should be overturned by politicians"

Oh

MY

G O D .

Why in the HELL are we sending elected officials to Ottawa, if they are unable, through democratic means, to legally disagree and strike down Supreme Court decision regarding the Constitutional laws of the country? Just for fun, tomorrow I telephone our local liberal incumbent's office and ask, if Martin's really serious about this proposal, why bother to vote for her OR her party, as the liberals clearly want the Supremes to make the country's significant decisions as they see fit? She'd save the local taxpayer sheaves of dough by resigning, or at least, by staying home & voting on non-critical SCC-crafted legislation via telephone.

Most people unfamiliar with the NWC will have missed Dithers' point entirely, and I'm hoping that those who know a bit about it will start to be... very afraid.

This is all a red herring anyway, isn't it? Can any lawyer advise whether or not Dithers has a snowball's chance at "Constitutionally changing the law" to eliminate the possibility of using the NWC? I thought the Constitution mandated that any such changes had to be ratified by ALL signatories: the federal government, & all provinces and territories. Fat chance of that, I'd say.

The most interesting comment on the Constitution was by Harper, and it'll go largely uncommented by any mainstream media: he noted he'd like to change the Constitution to add property rights to those other rights "protected" by the document.

Amen, Brother.

mhb23re
(email a/d is above username at the Google mail service)

PMPM just lost the election tonight and he did it without being prompted or without any need to be drawn into the debate about the importance of the non-withstanding clause and the frivolous use of it. Captain Canada was always willing to wrap the Charter around himself when he needed the blanket of justification. While not justifying why it only worked for him and the Liberals

Tonight Paul the fool Martin stated, "A judge appointed by me or my party (Liberal) has the RIGHT to change the rules that has been laid out for our governance when WE (the Liberals) feel it's right for YOU as we se fit."
In any other country, the civil war would be in full swing just after his televised statement, and under far less provocation.

In order that we do not/or will not have to go down that self destructive path of having to gain our rights through force of arms it's about time we take back what the like's of PMPM has forgotten.

I AM NOT A TAX PAYER. I AM A VOTER and you need my voice to run the country.

Martin asserts that the Mayor of Toronto "points out" that most guns used in crime are stolen from homes of legal gun owners (collectors). Isn't this the same mayor that suggested gun owners (collectors and sport enthusiasts) store their weapons in a stockhouse somewhere in the city?

Good idea. Take private property from law-abiding citizens, store it in one place so a bureaucrat can lose track of, sell, hand out said private property for his own financial benefit.

Or maybe the criminals just crash the stockhouse and get enough armory to start a coup at Toronto city hall.

The left long ago lost all association with common sense when it came to the issue of gun crime.

What kind of man would put the nothwithstanding clause on the table, now, 14 days to the election in the middle of the election, with no discussion even with his own caucus? To play Russian roulette with the Constitution of a fragile country. To spit in the face of the premiers all those years ago who threshed it out. To spit in the face of even Pierre Trudeau who accepted this Constitution as the hard give-and-take among politicians who never lost sight of their commitment to the people of Canada and the people of their provinces. And then to talk of Pearson and Trudeau later in the debate as your personal heroes as if you were finishing their “work”. Although I don’t share their vision for Canada, Martin never saw the day when he could stand even close to those men.

why were property rights never enshrined in the first place? 'course we can't ask Trudeau (dead guy) and Martin (dying guy). hmmm no property rights and abolish the not withstanding clause. I'm just a lowly voter but I smell HIDDEN AGENDA

Thanks Kate for giving us a forum to comment on the debate. No longer are we restricted only to how the MSM portrays what they saw (I was always left wondering if I missed something when the only commentary came from the "professionals" ... it was like I had watched a differant debate). I get a thrilling sense of unity as I read the insights of individuals from across the country. LET FREEDOM ROLL...as the people of this great country actually voice what they think and feel.

Well a long time ago I was invited by Senator Gerald Beaudoin to address the Beaudoin-Edwards Committee on Amending the Constitution of Canada.

This was in the runup to the Charlottetown Accord. I still have saved letters from this period from Brian Mulroney, Joe Clark, Jean Chretien and a gaggle of provincial premiers.

Removing the notwithstanding clause? This is clearly Constitutional policy invention on the fly. Suddenly, Mr. Martin has the support of 7 provinces and the federal government to pull this off. I wonder if we asked the provincial premiers whether they would remove the notwithstanding clause if they would agree on a moments notice.

This makes no sense to me. In times of national crisis, the notwithstanding clause might be invoked to suspend certain rights. IE In time of war or direct threat.

Kind of like the Patriot Act in the states which had a 5 year time limit or sunset clause when the crisis or threat subsides. I don't think I would willy nilly pull this out.

The Charter is supposed to be a plastic legal fabric that can respond to a variety of national pressures that can reverberate either internal or external to the country. Removing this clause ensures a legal rigidity without regard for serious crisis pressures or internal difficulties.

Removing the clause in my view is somewhat rash and ill considered. Whatever happened to the you can't cherry pick the Charter? Isn't this precisely what PM Martin proposes to do?

In my view this arbitrarily hamstrings the federal power, in times of crisis, to for instance protect the population. This is not very wise and would likely result in a legal tear of the Charter fabric at some time in the future.

There's a misunderstanding of what it takes to amend the constitution in the way that Dithers wants.

The federal government can by legislation amend the constitution in areas that affect only Parliament (Section 44, Schedule B, Constitution Act 1982). And it can also pass a constitutional amendment in an area that is in the jurisdiction of just one other jurisdiction, with the agreement of that other jurisdiction. This is what occurred when the New Brunswick government and the federal government passed a constitutional amendment making NB Canada's only bilingual province.

The process for an amendment such as Martin suggests is the passage of a Bill in both the House of Commons and the Senate, followed by Royal Assent. Martin is therefore assuming the Liberal-dominated Senate would pass this piece of legislation. And the Governor General would have no choice but to proclaim it. But first it has to be passed by the House of Commons.

Section B of the Constitution Act can be found at http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html#V

The process requires a plurality of votes in both the House of Commons and the Senate, unless the Senate fails to act upon it, in which case it can pass into law after a 180 day period during a period when the Senate is sitting.

(Cross posted to Calgary Grit)

"A legal tear of the Charter fabric"

You can bet your ass. And the 'future' would not be far off!!

EKOS numbers are out at LaPresse. The earlier reports about Conservative support were inflated. However, the news is still VERY good.

Conservatives 39.1
Liberals 26.8
NDP 16.2
Bloc 12.6
Green/Other 4.6

More than 12 points behind. LaPresse says it's OK for Mr. Harper to start dreaming of a majority. (But please don't!)

This time around I don't think he will make the same mistake. Harper is very focused. He has earned the support this time around. People are starting to see the real Harper not the one made up by Liberal scare tactics. His momentum is still rising and I think the support will build into a landslide. The new poll puts Harper ahead of Martin in Quebec. The last Liberal aff the Bandwagon has to fix the flat.

It's hours later, and I'm still really bothered by Martin pulling the Notwithstanding Clause out of his hat. I'm disappointed that the NWC issue more or less came and went during the debate (no doubt scripted responses will be prepared overnight for the French Debate).

What can one say that hasn't already been posted? I hope that Martin's own promise, that "the first act of the new Liberal government" will be to remove the Federal government's ability to use the notwithstanding clause, is finally enough to end the Liberal regime.

Last time I checked, Health Care, Crime, Ethics, and the Economy topped the issues list over voter's desires to see the Charter changed (did Section 44 ever even make the top 20 voter issues?). In Martin's own words, it'll be "the first act of the new Liberal government", something Canadians aren't even asking for on their Ipsos-Reid and Decima wish lists.

I hope the voters coast-to-coast-to-coast realize just how out of touch the Liberals are with the real election issues, and hell-bent on walking out their own agenda before the concerns of Canadians. And just how scary this new proposed amendment is and has the potential to be.

To me, this issue has the potential to be better than all things Gomery, or Income Trust, or Options Canada with respect to voter migration. It's not some right-of-center conspiracy, or personal attacks, or hearsay. This time it's Martin's very own words, and an agenda to seriously amend the Canadian Constitution, kept secret until two weeks before we head to the polls. Here's to 40 Below Conservatives, and hoping tonight's words might be some of the last we hear him utter before a concession speech...

"There are millions of knives in the hands of everyday Canadians who don't realize that these dangerous weapons which could someday possibly be used to injure or fatally harm a Canadian squirrel are ONE break-in away from being used to cut bread, make a sandwich, or maybe, just MAYBE, slicing up a handy copy of the Constitution and the Notwithstanding Clause. The Mayor of Toronto has the intelligence of a clam, and personally I think he'd make a fundamentally bad chowder - regardless of that fact, it is fundamentally a choice of this goverment that these knives could possibly kill people. We've got to stop that. In order to effect a positive change for the safety of this great nation, we've got to ban these weapons of mass destruction. Ban knives and any other sharp thingies that you might poke your fingers with. My goverment is fundamentally interested in the fundamental right of your pinkies to get funamentally good health care even if you have to wait on a list. We've got to start somewhere."

Martin's pledge to remove the notwithstanding clause came completely out of left field; Harper's perfectly calm, cogent response was the defining moment in the debate and probably in the campaign. Here he was, blindsided by something he could never have reasonably anticipated, and he didn't even blink, he just acted for all the world like a kindly and abiding mentor who was having a calm discussion with a flighty teenager.

Harper was so strong at times that when Layton was next in line, particularly in the second half, he seemed rattled at the prospect.

Harper far and away won the debate. He showed himself to be the best man for the job, and it looked like Martin knew it, too.

What a great performance, on the most important day in his political career, and at an absolutely critical time in our nation's history. You could almost hear the country healing as he spoke. Absolutely superb.

There is a sort of consensus to these many posts (up to 2:30
AM Pacific, and it seems to be delight and relief at the sight of the "real" Harper and scorn at the Notwithstanding ploy. But Mr. Martin is engaged in an election campaign and there top marks go to an existing leader who can show "fire in the belly". He did that in the last debate and in this one. Harper was so balanced he reduced himself to a cigar store wooden Indian with even his gestures so conditioned you could use him as a coin machine (put in a Nickel and pull the arm to get a fortune card). And surely no one really wants to have a group of nine people who represent no one but themselves decide our national fate, but by the time all that is thrashed out this electiion will be the stuff of history. Meanwnhile the Martin forces turn the flank of the spent NeoCons and shows the Liberals are willing to swallow governmental reform but the other three instantly recoil from the prospect as they did Monday night. That scene was truly hilarious.
I guess everyone sees the same event their own way. I was reminded of a good skater coming down from a triple on one good solid foot that sprays the ice as he swirls away.
Martin, at long last, apologized for the hugely overblown scandal, such as it was, and lectured the others to grow up and move on, as he sped away from what was once thought to be his nemesis.
I like it. Stand up for Medicare and Vote Liberal, unless the NDP has a really good chance in your riding.

garhaneg... ROFL.

Wow, 141 comments. That must be some kind of record, eh Kate?

And 'garhaneg' obviously drinks his own bathwater!
:-)

Uhm, Garhaneq?

If you recall, Martin went on national TV last spring to say I'm sorry don't let Stephen Harper bring down my government, PLEASE.
That was just before Bucky had Tim Murphy ensure that BS got bought off with a cabinet post in the room with comfy fur.
Your selective memory really is something.

Martin is a fool for promising to re-open constitutional. This point has less to do with whether it remotely could have a dubious benefit, which it won't.
My point is that Martin has proven he would sell his kids to stay in power, so I don't trust him to deal away the only protection the electors have against the appointed.
Or is it liberal policy that we create our own home grown monarchy? Don't recall getting rid of the NWSC being discussed at the last liberal policy convention, do you?
Martin either has no idea what he's promising, or he's kept this secret hidden since he decided to enter politics, either way I consider this man too dangerous for office.

One other comment on why this move by Martin is the stupidest one yet.

Picture this conversation the next time a CPC candidate goes door knocking in a muslum community.

"Paul Martin suggested during the last debate that he will not protect religious freedom. If you don't believe me ask your liberal candidate if Mr Martin now wants to remove the NWSC from the charter."

Blah blah woof woof...It's all over for the Liberals (and it should be). Far too many scams, scandals, patronage and corruption.

All Harper has to do is look Prime Ministerial not trip up and The CPC will have it's majority.

I'm still a Liberal but will vote conservative to rid this country of the disease. Cut off an arm and a leg to save the rest of the body. I will encourage my fellow Liberals to do the same.

I hope all the thieves and scoundrels will be prosecuted and go to jail as their final reward.

very good for Harper to point out the differences between the US Brit and our middle of the road system.

PMPM would turn over all laws to his appointees.-
at least the US justice system has some checks and balances - the president nominates justices, then they have to pass a gauntlet of scrutiny.
Canadas system is pure patronage.

I like how Martin says we have to compete against china who canada has given billions of $$$$ to and paul gets all his ships built there.

The first thing on my mind is "what do you mean we white man?"

If the royal bank competes vs CIBC do they give them money?

SO Garhaneq, what you are saying to use Kate's quote,

"Vote for the felon you know, Vote Liberal""

OMG(or any appropriate deity)! Even Ron has seen the light. In order to get to the 'real' Liberal Party, Canadians will have to vote to get rid of the slimey crooks that are passing themselves off as a Liberal government. Just like the old conservatives, they have to get rid of the entitlement gang and get back to their roots.

I'll probably never vote Liberal but I respect those who realize that their own party needs some housecleaning and willing to admit it.

Martin's willingness to trade off our representitive democracy for a Jurocratic dictatorship run by the PMO has only deepened my contempt for this degenerate little man.

Once the CPC takes power I hope they open investigations of his CSL patronage and incarcerate the scummy megalomanic. Warm up a cell for the Cretch and his realestate dealing as well.

"Stand up for Medicare and Vote Liberal"

A more asinine comment has never been written. The party that has allowed private clinics to flourish. The party that cut transfer payments effectively diminishing the quality and timing of services. The party that will drop the NWC which will allow more private clinics to flourish.

"hugely overblown scandal, such as it was"

Only a lefty can call the stealing of our tax dollars and funnelled back into same party...by a government that is supposed to be on BEHALF of the citizens...hugely overblown. Not to mention the other scandals enveloping this party.

If anybody is the posterchild of everything that is wrong with this country...government ethics...accountability and the handling of matters dear to Canadians....it is the figure skating fanatic garhaneg.

"marks go to an existing leader who can show "fire in the belly".

My God. Is this the anger people speak about? Feigned emotion gets zero points. Martin and his party showed their fire by the litany of broken and incomplete promises in the last 12 years.

Gary is too young to remember Mackenzie King, St. Laurent, Pearson and Turner -
otherwise he'd know that charisma is a recent requirement for the job of PM. It was invented by, guess who? - the mass media, when Trudeau came on the scene. And, please God, let's not go there again.
Gary, you really must learn the issues.

Thought Martin was the one accusing Harper of being against the constitution, but....seems he's the one that's against the comstituion as it presently stands!

Property Rights:

As odd as it may seem, I believe Trudeau attempted to write property rights into the Charter, but the NDP was violently opposed, and they won out in the end.

The main spar of Hernado de Soto's ILD reform of Third World economies is to enshrine the the legal right to own property in the constitution of the countries he advises.

The idea is not new. But it was not articulated directly until Lord Kames wrote in 1747 - "love of independence and property, the most steady and industrious of all human appetites."

This concept, applied in Peru - de Soto is a Peruvian educated in Switzerland - resulted in a visible renewal of the worst sections of Lima in a matter of a few short years (2 years between my visits, if I recall correctly. The difference between 'before and after' was astounding.)

The right (freedom) to own property cannot be found among all the comforting, touchie-feelie intangible 'rights' written into the Canadian Charter.

This 'oversight' must be corrected.

Fat Paulie
"The mayor of Toronto has pointed out it is handguns stolen from homes that are killing people. We've got to stop that. We've got to ban handguns."

Remove the NWC.
Then they have only to pickup the already registered long guns and we are unarmed, suckers that could'nt resist a Gomery like judge that decides the priministers job is redundant.

Fat Paulie has lost it.

I believe Mr Martin made a serious error with his silly "ban the notwithstanding clause." A viewer said it well on the radio this morning, " the Liberals would ban bubblegum if they thought it could get them elected." Also I love his spin on the Option Scandal. When asked questions about it after the debate, all he could say was that the documents referenced were "stolen." They were leaked budddy. Once again he wants to con Canadians (after all stolen documents are probably altered ones). He took one from Chretien's playbook - you remember, when he was caught out on documents that showed he had a financial interest in the Grand Mere golf course, they became forgeries. The examples above illustrate a pathetic attempt to "change the channel." For some reason, Canadians finally see through this nonsense and are fed up. BTW, I can't wait for Martin's "notwithstanding" sale tonight in the French debate. He has handed Harper a gift. Harper was no superstar in the debate (he still sways too much when he gets engaged), but he got the job done. For the third debate in a row, with the way Martin was waving his hands around), I wondered if he was making a point or trying to land a fighter on the deck of an aircraft carrier. Also, Martin, though he didn't smile much, looked much younger, though it was an obviously serious makeup job - quite representative of his arguments and positions - painted on and not real. Lots of hard work and negative cheap shots in next 10 days, but barring a remarkable event, stick a fork in the Liberals, they are done! Jack Layton is the bubble boy of Canadian politics. He should be zeroing in on Liberals, that's where his potential vote growth is, not Conservative voters. There are eight people in Canada who would change their vote from Tory to NDP, and they all live on Vancouver Island!!

More comments. Martin railed against "Americanizing Canada," yet incromprehensively wants to remove a counter-check on the power of the SCOC over the supremacy of an elected parliament. In the US, there is no such check on their Supreme Court. On the other hand, they have an elected senate and Supreme Court justices are confirmed by Congress. In Canada they are appointed by the PM with no debate, confirmation or recourse. This rank hypocricy reeks of desperation. Martin marches out a bogus stat that handgun murders were done with "legal" ones; you know that rash of thefts from handgun collectors and sport target shooters! There is no such consensus in any studies, which put the percentage of illegal, never registered handguns being involved in over 90% of these murders.
Iraq - Martin is a hypocrite on this issue too. He clearly is on the record as supporting Cdn troops in Iraq. Which troops would that be - six admin clerks from Gagetown? We don't have that capability. It's taken four years to assemble a small force to go to Afghanistan. The truth is it was our call, as a nation, whether or not to go to Iraq. The US respected our position but we acted in a childish manner, first promising troops and then engaging in an anti-American hissy fit. Just heard that the Conservatives WILL USE THE NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE V.V. GAY MARRIAGE (from Liberal strategist that is). I guess Harper is a liar when he clearly states NWC will not be used; from Liberals who have lied for years - broken promises, gumby-like spin, arrogance. But we shouldn't trust the Tories?

Am I hearing the death rattle of the Liberals? Yes. Can't create scandal against Tories. No problem, just make it up.

Another rant on my part. Any objective look at the spending proposals of the Tories and Liberals aren't much different in terms of actual expenditures . Yet the Tory plan will result in deficits. This from the gang that can't even accurately measure their own surpluses. Tories have access to public account because Liberals were stupid enough to put out economic statement in November. Liberals have grown govt spending by over 50% since 2000 but there will be no deficits under their watch. Huh? Remember 2004 and the $50billion black hole of Tory deficits that turned out to be Liberal surpluses?

Notably Mr. Martin's comments that a Liberal government would attempt to amend Constitution to prevent federal use of notwithstanding clause caught our attention. Mr. Martin's commitment to the proposed change is hopefully the nail in his political coffin. Our current system is a way that the legislatures, federal and provincial, can secure the final say is retained by the elected representatives of the people rather than by the courts. Steve Paikin was very efficient and made the debate very successful for viewers.

All media we view has some type of spin. Hopefully we will all continue to notice these subtleties and note for what they are.

Perhaps living in the outskirts of our Nation's Capital gives me a different perspective than some others but I have had it with the complacency of our society.

I work full time and am a mother of four. I have worked full time since the age of 18 while continuing my education with night courses to become a designated professional in my field. I pay taxes coming out my ying yang, utilities continuously are on the rise and the cost of gas to commute (I live rurally and no access to public transit) has become ridiculous. I am only lucky we bought our home before the real estate market made it impossible for many to enter the housing market.

I live in an area where we have to be fluently bilingual to work in the downtown or East End of the City of Ottawa. The Francophone community represents 5% of my province's population and 4.5% of Canada's total population. I have two children struggling school with reading/writing and have had to pull them from the French Immersion program they started in because there is no help for them available unless their are in the core English program. The additional help the school has only come because I had an emotional meltdown in front of their teachers, principal, vice principal and special education teachers. There are lots of other children who are not getting the help and have far more serious learning issues on their plate.

They are plenty of friends and family who work for the federal government in our area and when they joke about their workplaces have 'nothing to do' or committee meetings that comprise of having coffee in the hall it makes my blood boil. Those of us working in the private sector would never get away with that. Nor would I want to.

Please tell me there are others who really want change... for the betterment of all of us and our future.

I wonder what tortured mathematics Paul Martin used to get $1/day out of $1200/year. My guess is that he was fantasizing about his future utopian Kanada where stay-at-home moms will pay income tax rates of 70% to subsidize his government-run thought programming centres.

Just a word to the wise...

The mainstream media, and Liberal red will be carefully studying the Tory blog sites, looking for faithful to become arrogant and boastful.

They will be looking for the same kind of overconfidence, and self-destruction, which sank our hopes for the Country in the last election...

The "Harper is Bush, Harris, Mulroney" negative American style attack ads have already surfaced.
So much for the Wiggs distancing themselves from America. I'm sure that the Tories will have a counter attack prepared for such below the belt politics.

Don't play into their hands. Keep our powder dry to the end. Don't fire 'till you see the whites of their eyes!

Hey,

Stand up for medicare, what a crock. I was hospitalised twice last year in the USA and once in Canada. The Canadian health care system is a phreaking joke. Ya, it's free, and you get what you pay for.

Vote Conservative, pressure them to allow some competition for those of us that can afford quality healthcare, convince your company's insurance to put that on your plan. Then let us get an MRI from a private company so we can get off the 2 year waiting list and let someone who CAN'T afford get theirs from medic-aid sooner. I'd rather have my bucks going into a Canadian doctors pocket rather than going to the US everytime I can't get treatment here.

Nothing will help the gov't do better in health care then a little private competition.

I welcome the support of Altruistic, though he does make quite a noise coming into the mudroom and knocking the snow off his boots. But everyone recognizes the sound of the reluctant convert. I would add that it is great to hear the Canadian health system was there to help him when he needed it, even if it lacks some desireable qualities, and I hope his American experience was not too expensive. One day we shall be rich enough here in Canada to afford pretty well the best for all.

And as for the poster who queries what will be the fate of medicare if the Supreme Court is let loose to roam the land savaging social policies by the Parliamentary reform proposed by Martin? Well I personally suspect the idea there was a device to show that confronted with real Parliamentary reform all three opposing candidates would show the dust of their heels to the very idea. And so they did, indeed, they did that. Oh, leaders of men, surely.
So Martin played a trick on these rather naive worthies? Yup. I mean this is a political campaign, not a tea party where marks go for keeping your knees together and your cup on the doily. Parliament is supreme and courts can be and are controlled by Legislation.
Right then, stand up for Medicare and vote Liberal, unless the NDP candidate in yhour riding has a really good chance.