Mr. Harper,
Since all three opposition parties are now apparently united, why not try something like this: Vote non-confidence next tuesday on the first opposition day, but rather than dissolving parliament, instead form the government yourself. You will have the support of the NDP and the bloc as long as you make it clear that you will dissolve parliament and call for elections in early january. Then you can set the agenda and time the election for whenever you want. I think it would be a strategy worth considering, perhaps even entering a coalition with the NDP if necessary for their support. This will also demonstrate to Canadians that your party is capable of governing the country.

Um... wouldnt that require the Governor General's approval?

Isn't the GG Martin's squeeze?

Maybe... I haven't been paying attention to politics for very long, so I can't say if its ever happened before. I just thought for some reason if the CPC had the confidence of the house thanks to NDP and bloc support, they could have the chance to form the government.

Besides, the CPC wouldn't be to blame for a christmas election then, the GG would be for not allowing them the chance to govern.

I believe the GG could deny a Conservative-coalition from forming government, however, doing something like that would take brass balls (or extreme stupidity) and would be such a partisan move that it would destroy her own and the Libs credibility.

The biggest obstacle to a coalition government forming for a 2 month period would be getting the 3 parties to agree on the agenda for the House during that time.

The CPC and Dippers differ so much ideologically that unless they could agree to do absolutely nothing in parliament, I don't think this idea would work.

George. Nice thought. I want the bums kicked to the curb. I want to put that X on the ballot. I don't want Jack Laydown running Canada, which is what will happen if your idea is implemented. He's tolerant of corruption, as he demonstrated last spring, and I've had enough of it. What a dandy Christmas present an election would be!!!

Thanks, I got the idea while I was watching the video "David Docherty on Layton's plan" on the right on this page:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051110/layton_jack_election_051110/20051110?hub=Canada

So I guess you guys don't like the idea but I still think it would be a good strategy because
1. It legitimizes the CPC as a potential governing party
2. It legitimizes the NDP as a governing party if they are involved in a coalition
3. It makes Paul Martin look impotent and powerless

Number 2 is good because it will help the NDP steal votes from the liberals on the left, weakening them even further. Hell, they may even be able to ram the accountability act through parliament before the writ is dropped...

They're beginning to look like idiots. No reason to wait, to parse out some of the best of the budget estimates. Just pull the plug and whoever wins the next election can carry on business as usual. No reason why they can't ALL attend the Native meeting. They should anyway, just to keep tabs on Big Paulie. God knows what he'll do to look good.

Letter to the Opposition Parties: As predicted yesterday, Canadians are being inundated by the media's (confused and negative and bemused) response to Mr. Layton's proposal. It is generally understood that Mr. Layton is attempting to create a situation to protect the Aboriginal meeting and to avoid a holiday time election for Canadians.

It's not going to work! It is going to once again play out as though the Opposition Parties are all just trying to play games and interfere with the mature and responsible Liberals who are just trying to get the job done, which Canadians sent them to Ottawa to do.

As a Canadian and a member of the Conservative Party, I urge the Opposition to simply do the right thing for the right reasons. Go back to basics. Admit it...the Liberals (using our money) have all the resources and the power to play the Opposition like fools - repeating a Spring 2005 scenario. Unfortunately, although the intent is good, Conservatives, NDP and the Bloc are all going to be labelled as fooling around. Canadians lose patience with this, and the good intent is lost.

You must know that the Liberals have no intention of buying into this proposal for a revised election day. Remember - they do not have morals. They are not guided by integrity. They are entitled to govern any way they want - in arrogance. Bullies are not nice, but many times they do win if they are not confronted appropriately. They do not cave to the same cry for decency that most people with conscience do.

Canadians do not take the time to understand issues, and want to be able to make up their mind based on headlines - unfortunately! They would like to feel hopeful, and it's important that the Party they vote for appears clear, strong and ready to take on the important issues affecting life in Canada, into the future...

Remember, the general population are not familiar with the nuances of what you're trying to accomplish. They do understand:
. Liberals have lost the moral authority to govern - Gomery and current activities
. Liberals manipulated Opposition Days preventing the honest process of holding government accountable, therefore...
. Liberals give the Opposition no choice but to hold a holiday (Christmas, Hanukkah, Eide, Winter Solstice) time election
. Veterans fought to protect our freedom and democracy - and the Liberals have bastardized this!
. Other countries' citizens are literally dying to go to the polls

Please help Canadians to feel appropriately indignant towards the Liberals!! not towards the parliamentary process.

Please!!! Use the Opposition Days for what they are intended...to express confidence or non-confidence in the government. Keep it clean and simple - or you'll lose the voters! Vote non-confidence at the earliest time possible, before the opportunity is lost, to get the message out to voters. No matter how inconvenient, there is no choice but to call an election now, giving Canadians the opportunity to choose their government. You have the media's attention! Make it work to portray your clear message. Maybe, with this type of clear message that Canadians understand, the Liberals will be forced to choose an election date after the holidays - as you intend.

The media are loving this drama - once again. They love issues being obscure so they can put their own spin and interpretation on it.

If there must be a holiday time election campaign and vote, then it must be clearly because the Opposition Parties have no other choice - in the best interests of the Country.

You cannot negotiation with terrorists! You can not give the Liberals one more day to use our own money to buy votes and favours.

George, interesting idea. It is one thing for all the opposition parties to agree they hate the Liberals. It is quite another that they like ach other. Imagine a cabinet with Bloc, CPC and NDP ministers. ICK.

aa,

yeah i know in the long run a government like that wouldn't work, but for the short term, i think everyone has enough to gain by it that it could work. btw, i wouldnt have the bloc as part of the govt, just CPC or CPC and NDP.

Vote non-confidence next tuesday on the first opposition day, but rather than dissolving parliament, instead form the government yourself.

Was thinking that myself this morning. As an NDPer, I could support a CPC government for a limited time, just long enough to get the work done that needs doing. Doubt the BQ would come on board. The only thing the BQ will support is doing whatever they can to screw the federalist parties, and the rest of Canada. They're probably just creaming thinking about a Christmas election.

If that's true it sounds like Harper is backing away from Layton's plan to request an election in January. If they follow Jack then Parliament is not over until January. Maybe their constitutional experts have nixed Jack's plan.

Nov 15 should be an interesting day.

The three OP should boycott Monday, take down the government on Tuesday, set Harper as PM (H/T George), but then present a united front indicating the focus is solely on implementing a new ethics package based on the CPC/NDP proposals and Gomery's second report. State without question that an election will be called the minute the new legislation is in place (Late Feb/early March). Quite literally doing it for the good of the country rather than any power grab.

The three opposition parties will effectively push the Liberals into the closet not to be heard from again until March. They look like the saviours of Canadian politics and will go on to reap the rewards in the election.

A modest proposal:

Harper should pull the plug on Nov 15. When Paul Martin calls for a Christmas election, everyone will freak out and say they don't want to vote over Christmas. Big deal. The people who are truly motivated to vote will vote, and the majority of those voters will be Conservative. Liberals will be whiny and stay away from the polls.

It's a no lose situation for the CPC. We can blame the Libs for the timing of the election as there is nothing written in stone saying it must be a Boxing Day election, and I think turnout would favour CPC rather than Libs, as CPC voters are a lot angrier than Lib voters, and it's easier to get out angry voters than it is to get out complacent voters.

Reg,
yes absolutely, it makes so much sense because the CPC and the NDP have totally different support bases, whereas the liberals compete with the CPC and the NDP. Such a strategy will help each party by squeezing the liberals from the right and the left respectively.

Perhaps this is what Harper has planned all along? He's said that when he's gotten Jack's agreement before, he renegs at the last minute for some promise from Martin.
Right now Layton is talking "that yesiree by George I'm gonna support a n-c vote".
If Harper ups and tables his "surprise" on Tuesday he's basically left the NDP on the hook to follow through or look like chickens because they didn't act decisively when offered the chance.
If Harper even hints he's going to do this Martin will again bribe Layton.

BTW

We can't be spreading rumours that the LPC is going to be deregistered by Elections Canada because of the Gomery report. Talk like that would make those liberal voters think they would be wasting their vote.

I think Ann has it right. Harper already has a growing reputation for not being a great leader, for an inability to go for the juggular. Any more foregoing of an opportunity is just not going to play well in with the public.

Layton’s semi-sort-of-kind-of-yes-I-can-be-half-pregnant-if-I-want-to-be non-confidence motion idea doesn’t work, has no binding effect and looks week and weezly. Going along with it makes Harper and Duceppe look the same. Duceppe doesn’t care because he’s not trying to govern the country.

So why are they being so wishy washy about this. If Harper and Duceppe and Layton really think that Prime Minister Martin has lost the confidence of the House of Parliament and doesn’t have the moral authority to govern, then they should bring a clear, straightforward non-confidence motion. Immediately. If Prime Minister Martin doesn't have the confidence of the House, as they claim, then I would think that they have a duty to bring such a motion as leaders of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

If on November 24th this passes and then what? Some harrumphing about Liberal arrogance for a week or so that the public will tune out as soon as they head out to the mall with the kids for Santa photos. For worse for them is the reality that if, out of the goodness of their hearts after the non-non confidence vote, the CPC, Bloc and Dippers allow the Liberals to govern, to pass legislation and spending bills, how on earth can anyone legally or constitutionally or sanely or strategically claim that the government has lost the confidence of Parliament?

If important work is getting done, and in particular spending bills being passed, then clearly and by definition the government has the confidence of the House to govern. The opposition parties will be tacitly recognizing the power and authority of the government to carry on. You can't be half pregnant. You can't demonstrate semi confidence and expect the government or Canadians to be treat that as no confidence.

I don’t know whether an election now would be good for us Liberals or not, although many like me are chomping at the bit to clear the air of these games. But I really don’t see how this helps the Dippers and Harper is giving away the mantle of leadership to Layton if he goes along.

TB
Cerberus

(Not the same George who made the great suggestions above--)
We have to remember that we are only hearing the MSM spin of what Harper is saying. From the report from Gormley's show it is something different entirely.
I think George has laid out a great plan--will put Martin and the GG on notice--hope Harper goes for it

The Liberals would love Harper to go for it Georges. A Harper-Jean affair to complement our King-Byng affair. Harper says repeatedly the Canadian people need to decide, but whoa there, Nelly, not so fast as all that. Let me govern for just a wee little while and then we'll vote.

He will lose: all of the anger over Gomery, all of the focus on the Liberals that helps opposition parties in elections, all of the sympathy card of being the minority party trying to wrest control from the Liberal Party that "uses taxpayer money to pay itself and get itself elected", we're the straight party and they are the ones playing politics, etc. etc. etc.. Instead, the focus will be on: the constitutional issues, the inevitable squabbling between CPC/Bloc/NDP over the details of what to do over two months, the question of what was the point for two months when the former Prime Minister had already promised an election, etc. etc. etc.

I would dearly love to see Harper try that maneuvre. It's got guaranteed majority written all over it. Liberal majority.

TB
Cerberus

What exactly is so wrong with a Christmas election? I am pretty agnostic politically (Liberal corruption, CPC yikes, NDP egads) but I don't mind the thought of a 3 block walk in the cold to cast my vote. Every four years is not so bad.
Apart from the political element (those that favor the timing so that 'their guy' will win), am I the only one that that has no problem with year-round democracy?

I'm just wondering... why do we continue the farce of holding federal elections outside of Quebec and Ontario? Lets just ACCEPT it's a dictatorship already and call the "country" what it truly is, "QUENTARIO", and build giant bronze statues of the "great" godfathers of the ETERNAL liberal government in every city. This is clearly their goal... lets appease them like the good sheep we are already.

TB,
Well thats your opinion but I disagree. I think voters in Ontario very much want to punish the liberals, they are just frightened about the unknown conservatives, who the media and liberals tell them are going to destroy public health care and ban abortion etc. Seeing them in power for 2 months, passing sweeping ethical reforms, will go a long way toward dispelling these fears imo.

Combine that with the fact that they will time an election for the week after Gomery's 2nd report comes out, when the voters will be reminded about all the sordid details of the affair, and it is difficult to see how that will be beneficial to the liberals...

Regarding the timing of the election, supposing Harper does try and is successful at pulling the plug on 15 November, there must be a minimum of 35 days for the election campaign.I do not know how long the maximum can be but have heard 55 days. 35 days would take us to the 30th of December so if I am right on the 55 days that would take us to the 19th of January. That sounds okay as far as avoiding a holiday vote is concerned but the problem is the Liberals power to screw up anything that looks more favourable to someone else rather than themselves. Perhaps something could be added to the confidence motion which could dictate the election date. Bring on the 15th of December. Harper can shower me with not only a great Christmas present but also the best birthday gift I could ever want.

Bob: only the Prime Minister can ask the GG to dissolve Parliament and only the Prime Minister can set the election timetable. There is no precedent and certainly no constitutional precedent otherwise.

George: If you surf around leftie and liberal sites, the only people talking about the CPC hidden agenda and fearing the CPC because of it are... Conservatives. Honestly. Most of us have moved on and just simply disagree with the policies of the CPC.

And besides anyone who fears the CPC for their hidden agenda is not going to believe it is or isn't there after two months of a CPC government that exists and is beholden to the very left leaning Bloc and NDP.

It is more likely that the CPC will find just how hard it is to govern in a minority position, especially when you have to do the bidding of parties at politically opposite poles from you.

TB
Cerberus

Ya know what george? If they could get the ethical reforms through, I wouldn't even care (well, not as much, anyway) whether or not they won the subsequent election. I can live with a party that represents my ideas losing an election, but I'll be DAMNED if I can tolerate the corruption we've seen in the last 12 years.

Man, the Canadian system of goverment is completely FU*#ED!

No wonder the Americans totally trashed the whole nose-in-the-air-her-royal-majesty high falutin' parliament thing.

TWO PARTIES. TWO HOUSES (elected) SEPARATION OF POWERS.

TB,
well, most pundits attribute the late minute liberal surge in Ontario in the previous election to the "hidden agenda" fears, so I disagree that it isn't significant. Good point about those who do believe in it, they aren't likely to change their minds based on two months of a coalition government.

As for the disagreements on policy, I think you'll find that a lot of people don't even know what the CPC's policies are. Try it yourself on a friend of yours who isn't a political junkie.

Yes I imagine that they will find it difficult to rule in a coalition with the NDP, but there will be certain things which they will be able to agree on, such as ethics and accountability, as well winter heating relief due to high gas prices.

Also you have to admit, being able to time the election with the gomery report is an advantage.

Kate,
This thred is so interesting that I will contribute an email that I sent to Harper this morning in its entirety as follows.

From: joemolnar1@sympatico.ca
Subject: End the Liberal corruption on Tuesday!
Date: November 10, 2005 10:06:40 AM EST (CA)
To: Harper.S@parl.gc.ca
Cc: Layton.J@parl.gc.ca, Duceppe.G@parl.gc.ca, duffy@ctv.ca, fife@ctv.ca, stewac@parl.gc.ca, MacKenzie.D@parl.gc.ca, cfrbcomments@cfrb.com, globalnews.tor@globaltv.com
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id:
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,
It's time to take the lead and dump the corrupt bastard Liberals from power.
You are playing into their hands by procrastinating. You know Canadian mainstream media hates you and are Liberal enablers . Duceppe appears to have Quebec sewn up, so he can't get hurt,
Layton and the ND's will gain some votes but those supporters will not go to you anyway, so what do you have to lose?
As A Canadian I am sick and tired of being hostage to the cheating , lying bastards and the enabling mainstream media who protect them.
I urge you to bring in the no confidence vote, Christmas holidays be damned.
Get us free of the corruption and present the package to Canadians that will ultimately clean up government. Surely Layton and Duceppe can agree to that!
End this bullshit that is Liberal malfeasance.

Joseph Molnar
Woodstock, Ontario

I was just wondering as to the extent to which TB is a beneficiary of Liberal-distributed taxpayer dollars. No one with a smidgen of intellectual honesty with oneself can be a Liberal without benefiting financially from it to a significant degree.

I don't know how people who support the Liberal Party of Canada can look at themselves in the mirror without lying to themselves.

And the Liberals are the ones who have actually PROVEN that they have a hidden agenda by doing all sorts of things they never said they'd do and by not doing many things they promised to do to get elected.

It boggles the mind how so many can still support this corrupt regime. They're tearing the country apart. Just watch them.

And it is not true that the CPC will be beholden to any other party. The CPC's job is partly to fix the problems the Liberals caused, and there are so many which are so bad.

Seems things are getting partisan lately, and the Liberals and their supporters are telling increasingly transparent falsehoods about the CPC.

The Liberals are getting extremely nervous. Watch them fight like dying tigers.

I warn: Canada will, under continued Liberal rule, eventually break up as the increasing divisiveness and alienation between regions gleefully sowed by these left-wing extremists calling themselves "Liberals" becomes too much to bear for a majority of citizens in those regions. Forget about Quebec separation. They have it too good to consider leaving. They're addicted to Canada. Other regions outside Ontario are not getting anything out of the federation anymore. The Liberals have deliberately divided the federation between Ontario/Quebec and the ROC. Yes, they have. Politically incorrect to say so, but completely true.

The election will be in February. It'll be a long campaign with the heavy lifting in January. Harper is correct. A Christmas election is a bad idea. Not because of voter backlash, but because the tuneout would be like having a very short election period.

The Globe and Mail front page nails what happens if the Libs don't go voluntarily. Under the head "February election in the works" there is a sidebar with a plan B:

"Opposition parties have enough votes to change the parliamentary calendar, bringing the Commons back early from its Christmas break and scheduling an opposition day. One of the parties could then introduce a motion of no-confidence, defeating the government and forcing a February election."

Expect a mini-budget. Expect anything you want. The Libs can't call a Christmas election and proroguing would just start an election campaign that will not end until voting day.

"I don't know how people who support the Liberal Party of Canada can look at themselves in the mirror without lying to themselves."

It's simple. They love their party more than their country. Conservatives are different. We vote conservatives OUT if we even SUSPECT there is funny things going on. Look at Bush in the US. Tried to put Miers in the SC. Conservatives turned on him. They put what they believe in before their party. We did it to the PC's in '93. Conservatives believe in things. Libs believe in the "Liberal" name. PMPM could do anything, and I mean anything, and the libs would still call it canadian values.

I used to work with a Lib. She is one of the most hard working honest people I know. When it comes to politics I guess she just has low standards.

Let's see if that get the comments going!

The adults are having a wholly partisan and yet wholly civil discussion about possibilities here, CS/Brian. Go back to your playpen.

"I was just wondering as to the extent to which TB is a beneficiary of Liberal-distributed taxpayer dollars."

Better yet, and with apologies to Kate because I know she hates ditch talk and knows it's not typical of me, go f--- yourself.

TB
Cerberus

Liberals are generally good people, but they're addicted to the regime that provides them a comfortable living.

I'm fortunate to have been left out of the taxpayer-dollar trough and forced to make do working hard for considerably less than if I was a civil servant or something. I'm not addicted to Liberalism. I'm free of the tyranny of always having to do things in two languages, say politically correct stuff at every cue and all that. I love my liberty. Wish there was economic liberty so I could more quickly rise up the income ladder.

That's the basic couple of reasons why I'm a conservative. Liberty and a free economy.

Well, I see the Liberal displays the traditional class for which these folks are famous.

Guess the truth hurts, eh? But, hey, are Liberals afraid of the truth?

George - Pale at http://lunchpale.blogspot.com wrote about this very thing at 10 this morning. His idea was to approve a ethics package in the commons then run on the promise to implement it (a la Liberals).

I didn't see anyone named Brian on this thread. And I'm not a "Brian".

CS's post reminded me that the girl I know does actually have a goal in life. She does want to be a civil servant. It also reminds me of a lawyer I've spoken to a few times. He's loyal to the libs because he wants to be a judge.

I can see where my post might offend some as well, but I'm not a Brian either.

Who the heck is Brian, anyway? A figment of TB's imagination?

Joe,
That's amazing, great minds think alike i guess ;)

I don't see where anyone has picked up on my sloppy math. 35 days starting on the 16th of November would end on the 24th of December.If the election period was stretched to 55 days the election period would end on the 13th of January.The Monday preceding that date (aren't elections always held on Mondays?) would be the 9th of January. That would still sound like a respectable date, all of course depending on the assumptions I have made to get to that point.

Kinda like the life of the C.R.T.C.

Thursday, 10 November 2005
"In a move that is angering many Canadians and current XM and Sirius radio listeners, the Globe and Mail is reporting today that Canadians who purchase satellite radios in the U.S. will not be able to use them to subscribe to Canadian satellite radio services."

I ain't angry. I ain't even concerned. Why would I want to pay extra for Canadian radio progamming(John Gormly, or Dave Rutherford for example) on my Sirius... That I can get for free?

REAL American receivers can be found anywhere. I have a lifetime sub, and I would really prefer all of the commercial free music to have 0.00 "airtime nationality" regulations imposed on my listening.

Can someone explain to me why the C.R.T.C even exists???

WE NEED FIXED ELECTIONS EVERY FOUR YEARS.

THAT IS THE SOLUTION.

LET'S JUST MAKE IT SO ONCE THE CPC COMES TO POWER.

You know Harper is serious and the Lie-beral's are scared when Transport Minister Jean Lapierre revives the $2 billion Via Fast plan for the Quebec City - Windsor corridor. Can you say Bombardier Jet Train?

Recommended viewing (with barf bag on hand)..at www.ctv.ca you'll find the 18+ minute video (Mike Duffy's program tonight) of the un-campaign speech that Mr. Martin gave to the Toronto Liberal Laurier Club this evening. An angry and frightened tirade personally demonizing Stephen Harper once again. Poor Mr. Martin must feel so threatened today. He makes it so clear that "I won't play politics" (without cheating). Quite sad to watch. On the otherhand, this was a nationally broadcast program/speech by the CTV. Who paid for this??

Anyone still talking about a non-confidence motion prior to nov. 28th, needs to figure out how to get the ndp to vote for it. they won't.

Given that and preferring (1) no campaigning before Christmas and an (2) extended campaign into February, the parties have agreed to look at Layton's motion and then work together until the job is done one way or another.

All parties agreed yesterday that Layton's motion is not a non-confidence motion. If Martin doesn't comply they move on to the other steps to pull him down immediately after Christmas or in early December if required. In all cases they are aiming for the serious campaining to be in January and the vote in February.

The only way the campaign will be mostly in December would be at Martin's request. Not likely either.

If you think any of this shows weakness by Harper, watch him. Its going to be like Rick Mercer's Nike commercial.

Cadman's dead.

There is no longer a tie - the Conservatives and Bloc have the votes to bring down the government now.

But isn't there a couple of Tories who have health problems and may not be able to make a vote? Gotta remember that, so as we've seen from before, it's too risky not to have the Dippers onside.

Harper needs a backbone and needs to call a confidence motion. Otherwise he is just harping and has no plan.

It's all up to the Opposition leader to show leadership.

The Liberals squeeked into my riding last election because of senior voters. They are all afraid of Harper because they think he will cut their pensions and public healthcare. They are afraid they will have to pay for doctor's visits if Harper wins. Why? Because this is what the local Liberal candidates tell them. They really play on the senior's paranoia and failing health. Personally, I hope it's a cold snowy voting day and these seniors don't get to the polls. I know this sounds bad, but a lot of these old folks are gullable like children. The Liberals know this and portray Harper as the scary boogy man hiding under their bed. My Grandfather used to say, " Your once a man, twice a child". He was right. Plus, the seniors all like Martin because he is one of them,like Chretien before him. As it stands now, and for the next 10 years, voter demographics are not on Harper's side. A cold, snowy christmas election during flu season is the CPC's only hope.

Hey TB(toilet breath)

"the only people talking about the CPC hidden agenda and fearing the CPC because of it are... Conservatives".

Yea sure, and Brison DIDN'T falsely accuse Harper of being an unregistered lobyist.

Liberal have no morals or ethics and will do/say anything(whether it is true or not) in oder to manitian their god given right to screw er govern Canada.

Horny toad

None of the independents is running again, and all are unhappy Liberals who might just be disgusted enough to vote with Tories/BQ. Would that change anything? What about if Libs like Efford are MIA? Apparently he's controlling his blood sugar levels in Florida at the taxpayers' expense. CBC is making a big deal about the possible election coming during the Chinese New Year, but then Olivia Chow said most people only celebrate 2 days anyway so it wasn't a big deal. But the Mother Corpse did manage to find a few unhappy people from the community who are seriously alarmed that Christmas would get precedence over the Year of the Dog.

In November 1873, Macdonald resigned rather than face a confidence vote over the Pacific Scandal. Mackenzie formed a government, immediately prorogued the house, and then request dissolution the following January. Of course the rules are somewhat different these days. I just suggested a wording for a suitable confidence motion over on Stephen Taylor's blog.

we don't need or want the dippers. if the Conservatives and Bloc vote as one?! yes!
we do have a lot in common. heh I'm in bed with the separatists, at least it feels like it.

...and it feels good

kelly, I'm with you. It must be something about the French...

and for those of you saying "no Christmas election" check out Monte's latest.

Seniors are furious with the Libs this time round after Goodale trashed their income trust funds. No going back, either. Canadians lost something like $32 million within a two week period (2 or 3)because he made some stupid remark about government worried about losing the $300 million hidden in these trust funds. I don't think seniors, or anybody with ITFs are going to give the Libs a chance to enact any legislation aimed at killing their savings. And that is something the Tories should be harping on over and over again.

To Canadian Sentinel--we do have FIXED elections already--what we need are elections every four years--right to recall, referendums, and most of all--an involved electorate

You're right-- elections are already pretty much fixed-- MSM sees to it with their biased favoritism of the Liberals and the Liberals see to it by buying some folks' votes with other folks' money.

But seriously-- I meant by "fixed" that the gov't cannot decide when-- it's got to be already predetermined by legislation the day after an election when the next one will be-- exaclty in four years whether the gov't likes it or not, right?

Did anybody see the scrum with PMPM and Gordon Campbell? Media are starting to treat the PM as feeble. Some of the questions were - HORROR OF HORRORS - hard!! Like guns/crime legisaltion, sudden interest in native affairs - isn't this more pre-election posturing? THEN, the Libs are paying back $1.4 million, and now you're holding a dinner for donations, which are tax deductible. So really, aren't Cdns paying themselves back? Increasingly, even the MSM are looking at Martin with less than respect. He is a lame-duck PM and only the likely suspects will keep trying to portray him as a leader.

I hope you're right, Iron Lady, and the MSM has unexpectedly come to its senses and is beginning to give the old poop the treatment he's been asking for for so damn long.

Although, I didn't see that press conference.

dear Iron Lady; the income trusts lost over 20 BILLION dollars... not 32 million... the liberals don't want canadians to be prosperous - they want control over your money. every last stinking rotten penny of it, for controlling your life - end of story. the money in these trusts had ALREADY been taxed at the corporate level prior to becoming dividends... why the f*** would anyone thinking primarily about the interests of other canadians ever vote LIBERAL? WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO WAKE UP ONTARIO?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051104/income_trusts051105/20051104/

I stand corrected, Meursault. Guess I was thinking of my OWN trust (NOT). Won't boomers be upset too? Toronto twees usually vote Liberal but if they lost that much, maybe they'll be too pissed to vote that way. Certainly they can't reverse the loss or make it up in any way. I suspect a Tory win would help, though. Am I dreaming?

frustratingly I don't see the federal conservatives promising anything to significantly reduce the financial bloodsucking of canadians either. i.e. even a promise to significantly reduce the GST - which would also help out Ontario even more than Alberta. confederation is all about Ouebec and Ontario back east and ignoring the west (on purpose, to show us who's boss), and about not getting our undies pulled up over our heads again by another federal power stealing scheme like NEP out west. the other provinces want hand outs so they keep their mouths shut...sad state of affairs, eh? i think an alternative existence such as dreaming about green fields and blue skies and lost loves ala a semi-lobotomized John Hurt in "1984" is the best proposition I've heard all day.

AdScam Martin will not be going to the Commonwealth Summit later in November. Why not? He will be in Kelowna; smoking sweet grass, sucking peace pipes, shilling for votes, pounding tom-tom, kissing papooses: Martin the Candyman. Even Lloydy Axworthy is critical of him. >>>>

Prime Minister invites Premiers, Territorial Leaders, and Leaders of National Aboriginal Organizations to a First Ministers' meeting....

Prime Minister Paul Martin today announced a First Ministers' Meeting in Kelowna, British Columbia, on November 24-25, 2005.

The Prime Minister has invited Premiers, Territorial Leaders and Leaders of the Assembly of First Nations (AFN), the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami (ITK), the Métis National Council (MNC), the Native Women's Association of Canada (NWAC) and the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples (CAP) to participate in the meeting, which will be held at the Grand Okanagan Hotel.>>>
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news.asp?id=609

I think the three opposition leaders should show up unannounced, or at the last minute. Not only will it upstage the lame duck PM, it is, in fact, essential that the three of them be aware of what's going on. Can't leave it to a PM on his deathbed to implement the necessary changes/programmes. Besides, if Harper should form the next gov't, he should be in the loop; likewise, Jumpin' Jack should he clean up Liberal votes. Duceppe will be able to push the Quebed Natives' agenda. Really, they must all turn up and call the PM's bluff. Here, there and everywhere - follow him around because he can't be trusted to do anything intelligent because he is so desperate.

Message to Harper - Get off your butt and call the doggone election. Enough already. You are beginning to be Mr. Dithers Junior. I would even vote Christmas Day to get rid of these characters.

"I don't see where anyone has picked up on my sloppy math. 35 days starting on the 16th of November would end on the 24th of December." Bob Wood

Bob, although this post borders on the irrelevant, people picked up on your sloppy math. Twice. The answer you're looking for is the 20th of December assuming November 16th is day 1.

Iwant to vote as soon as possible with a vengence.The election won,t disrupt my holiday season,boxing day is on monday back to work on tuesday. The politicians talk like we,ll all be going sking or Florida for 2or 3 weeks,its just a long weekend with turkey!

sparks: yep. harper should get off his butt and make the ndp vote non-confidence before nov. 25th. he should also show leadership by making north korea give up nuclear weapons.

leadership includes herding the guy holding the hammer. a non-confidence vote is the end game, but it would be in december and the election would still be in late jan. or early feb.

Gimbol re: LPC de-registered. Did I miss something? Was that from you or someone else?

Anne re: Martin's Laurier speech. Warren Kinsella (yes him, but he hates PM) mentioned it on his blog and had a few reminders of What Martin has said in past regarding the Iraq war. Kinsella says pay attention to 11 min. into that clip when Martin bad-mouths Harper over Iraq. warrenkinsella.com - latest musings Nov.11

So TB .
What is your price ?
How much does it cost to whore yourself out.
I need liberal supporters to tell me who they work for or what their special interest is BEFORE I'll listen.
I need liberal supporters to explain their "moral double dealing principles."
Untill then they are clients of our welfare/crime organization, nothing more.
What does it take to look yourself in the mirror it's a fair question that maybe you can only respond to with GFY, who could blame you for hitting back at your instinctive self loathing that comes from lieberal intellectual dishonesty.

The problem is there are far to many Canadian liars holding themselves up as morally conscionable advocates for progress.
The liberals have divided the vote into those on the take against the rest of us.