Too bad it will not go to pay down the debt.

I hate thinking my children will pay for my lifestyle.

Will people in jail get the money?

Too easy to counter.

The liberals say they want to give back some of the money they took to some Canadians. We just want to stop the excessive taxing at the pumps on all canadians.

"Will people in jail get the money?"

Probably, and here's an even worse thought: David Dingwall will get a cheque too.

As I just mentioned in a previous post, Sean, this is absolutely a "red herring" from the "red mafia". Paying a dividend on "larger than expected" surpluses? The expectation is up to them and therefore, so is the dividend, right?

Need more votes for a looming election? Lower the projection and buy votes from across the country.

No elections in the near future? Raise your projection to eliminate the dividend and, instead, pay the excess funds to the people who will funnel it back in time to buy the next election.

Does this sound cynical and bitter? Good

"We just want to stop the excessive taxing at the pumps on all canadians."

Just make sure you call it anything but a tax cut. Call it 'empowering the poor' -- call it something else so long as it sounds progressive and squishy.

Anyhow, this is a stroke of brilliance on the part of the Libs. People will want their cheques, and this gives the Libs carte blanche to keep right on going with their excessive taxation and fishy bookkeeping that produces these surpluses.

It's dirty, but it'll work.

None of us are going to see a single dime of any of this money.

"None of us are going to see a single dime of any of this money."

Sure we will -- this coming year because we have an election on the way. After that, probably not until another election comes along. Sure they're buying us, but that seems to work in this country.

Sean:

If the Conservatives were to issue a platform statement that they were going to be rebating the same amount of dollars (prior to the Liberals doing it) they would be accussed of trying to buy votes. That would be followed up by editorials both in print and electronic stating that "this kind of transparent vote buying does not fool the average Canadian and that is why the Liberals remain in power. They would never be so foolish as to attempt such a manouver. Clearly this shows that the Conservatives are too inexperienced to run government."

Liberals keep winning elections for one reason and one reason only. Lack of editorial balance or objectivity in the national media, and a lack of solid investigative journalism into matters Liberal.

I don't think this fools any more people in the East than it does the West. They just pretend it does so that they can go on electing Liberals, which keeps their bread buttered just fine, to hell with what it means for the future of the country.

Your justification that this is why Liberals win elections is a great example of this.

Think about the alternatives -- they could go back to buying people with government programmes. This way is definitely the lesser of those evils.

I agree with Sean; brilliant tactic.

As much as people have disagreed with me, I still believe the CPC has blown yet another chance to one-up the Liberals by not stepping to a mic and saying they were prepared to ELIMINATE the excise tax on gasoline.

When gasoline hit it's Labour Day highs, that is exactly what the party should have done.

Now the Libs have something out the door that is gonna make ANY talk about tax breaks seem reactionary.

A thief takes half your money. Upon reflection he decides he took more than he needed. Of the surplus, as determined solely at his discretion, he promises to give back one third, buy shit for his friends with a third and pay off his credit card debt with the other third. Thanks a lot, buddy.

Ward said: "Liberals keep winning elections for one reason and one reason only. Lack of editorial balance or objectivity in the national media, and a lack of solid investigative journalism into matters Liberal."

I guess you mean other than things like, um, Adscam and Dingwall which were both broken by the Globe, and the constant berating over spending habits, indecision, etc.

TB
Cerberus

WE need a change of government,if, for nothing else, just to make the change.
Look. It's like changing the oil in your car. If you leave the old stuff there long enough, the motor starts to break down. Don't you all think it's time this country got an oil change before it's motor, the taxpayer, breaks down?

As Occam has outlined - what we have is a thief who has stolen our money and gives 1/3 back, and we are grateful????!! We are supposed to say that it will buy groceries and gas...but..heck, if the taxes weren't so high and hadn't taken all that money from us..we'd be able to buy those broceries, gas and more, and for more weeks. I'm stunned why you are grateful when the thief returns part. And - is doing it only as a bribe.
The Liberals are expecting and planning a spring election. Sooooo...this returning 'here's a bit of what I stole'..is an election tactic.

The thing to remember about the Liberals is they have only ONE agenda. Power. Not Canada, not the people. Their own agenda. Power. Anything and everything they do - is focused to retain that power. There is no other reality.

The money is ours; it is taxpayer money, and what I think many are missing is that this is showing how the Liberals treat our money as their private bank. The reason they have the money is because they took it from us; Canadaians are heavily, seriously, overtaxed. That's why Canadians don't themselves develop our own major investment industries but piggyback on the US - and increasingly, on China and India to do the heavy-duty investing for us. We'll work in their factories, labs and franchises; because our gov't has so taxed us that we can't afford to enage in primary investment.

And we are supposed to be grateful? Also- I don't get why one can expect the CPC to offer similar suggestions. It is the Liberals who are in power; they alone have access to the bank which holds all our money; they alone make the decisions on how to spend our money. We don't; neither does the CPC.

And finally, it is unethical to steal and return that money only as a bribe. The CPC wouldn't do that. They have already called for gas relief and stopping taxation..but remember, their voices are not heard in the House. The Liberals never, ever, ever, ever, answer any questions. They just pontificate about how great they are. There are no opposition days permitted by the Liberals to introduce anything or confront or dissent.

This enormous power that the governing party has, with its control over the money, and its huge patronage powers, means that it's almost impossible to turf them out.

I don't like being bought with my own money. There's something smarmy about that.

I've read that paper it's got to be the most left leaning, I'm gonna get a job as the Consul-general in New York the Lib's can't do anything wrong rag I have ever seen in my life.
I'm not a stupid man and I know propaganda when I see it. That paper is disgusting. If thats your Idea of objective journalism then all I can say is your one sad dude.

ET has it right. There is something smarmy about being bought with your own money. There's something smary about being bought ,period. How come more people don't care about that? Try explaining to Eastern Canadians that living six months of the year on EI isn't being bought. They respond with, "I pay my EI premiums". OK. But if this program was with a private insurance company and you put in a claim EVERY six months, would you be able to afford the premiums? NO! but because it's the government, those people have made it a way of life and the Liberals tell them they are entitled to it. It's another form of prostitution. Screw the working taxpayer to pay for Liberal votes. Know what's even sadder?
It's never gonna change!

Shhh?-On! wrote:

"This is why the Liberals win elections and you don't. They're just better at connecting with Joe Canadian than you are. Run that around your noodle a few times."

It's been said repeatedly, but it bears repeating - if the CPC's only path to electoral success is to be as good or better at the Lieberals sleazy, dishonest tactics as the Lieberals, they are doomed to eternal opposition - absolutely nobody can out-sleaze Little Paul and his band. And even if you could, is the party that succeeds really who you want governing the country? And if that's the only way to federal power, isn't the better use of our time and energies the abandonment of the pathetic excuse of a nation such a reality would unequivocably establish?

"A thief takes half your money."

It's horrid. I'm not denying it. What's even weirder, is that the tax surplus money I'm allegedly getting back isn't my money. Thanks to the layoff earlier this year and my business expenses, I'll get back every single penny I paid in taxes for 2005. This means that my 'tax surplus' cheque is someone else's money. I'm ashamed to admit it, but it probably won't stop me from cashing the cheque if it were to show up tomorrow as our finances are not all they could be.

So the Libs are stealing money from one group to buy the votes of another group -- that's nothing new. And Canadians seem to tolerate it and lick it.

Of course, theft is becoming a rather casual pastime in a country where a good chunk of the population is busy downloading 'free' music, movies, and software off the Net. No wonder the Libs feel comfortable encouraging more of it.

The worst thing about the Libs, speaking for myself at least, is not their corruption, but the fact that their corruption seems to mirror so much of what the rest of Canada is doing. :-(

"And if that's the only way to federal power, isn't the better use of our time and energies the abandonment of the pathetic excuse of a nation such a reality would unequivocably establish?"

This is exactly why I purchased a membership in the SPA. I'm going to try and find a bit extra to donate as well, once the finances stabilize.

unless you breed like rabbits and have no job [i.e. mentally ill] or are over 65 and indigent [and registered as indigent] you won't get a wiff of this latest Orwellian slight of hand. So wake up and see it for the election herring it is! Liberal apologists, media suck ups, and opposition bashers who think the Liberals give a single solitary crap about them and their well-being make me puke becasue you have no clue.

Marc Lalonde re NEP "Our proposal [rape of Alberta... rape of power...rape of lives - old and hard working alike] was to inrease Ottawa's share appreciably, so that the share of the producing provinces [2 out of 10!!!] would decline significantly [for control!!]"

8 out of 10 ... 5 out of 10... 2 out of 10... soon to be 1 out of 10... Liberals suck! Sean... send your entire paycheck to Ottawa and let them decide what to do with it if you think they're so smart.

Will I get interest on it as well? If not, I would rather they just did not tax me as much.

Well Sean, there comes a time where you stop thinking about what makes good politics and starting thinking about good policy.

So many people marvelled at how brilliant Chretien's golf ball stunt was. They marvelled so hard and so long they forgot how absolutely offensive the whole thing was.

Previous posters have it right. This prosperity rebate will be manipulated by the liberals to buy votes. They will use this as justification for not lowering taxes.

Stop marvelling and start thinking critically.

I seem to remeber folks on here thinking that Ralphy was a true man of the people when he pulled the same stunt. Some of you are so predictably inconsistant it's scary.

My opinion?
Ralph's $400. Good politics. Shitty policy.

Martin's $133.00? Good politics. Shitty policy.

If heaving a few bucks at the public so that we can see a spike in CDs and shoe sales is what passes for vision......

I used to work for the Taxpayers, and while I have some issues with them, I don't have any at all with the research that used to come out of the old Manitoba Taxpayers Association. So, based on that; "churning" the process by which tax dollars are taken from taxpayers, costs subtracted and then they are returned (very poor definition but you get the idea)as services or monies. Don't know what it is now, but it used to be that about 72 cents of every dollar taken in tax was churned by the system. Joe taxpayer got about 18 cents on the dollar in returned services etc. The rest got swallowed. So how much does Mr. Martin et all have to collect to graciously give us back some of our money these days? Here's another thought. Again, don't know what today's numbers would look like, but the MTA used to estimate that, when all levels of geovernment were considered, you could get better services on about 40% of the then current tax take by changing the incentives in the system and changing how the services are delivered. Note: more services, less taxes. So lets be generous to gov. Say you paid 60% of what you now pay in taxes (not 40%). Would you still need the handout?

Don; at least in Alberta EVERYONE will get an EQUAL amount...[even the lowly taxpayer]... even people whose lives don't depend on voting Liberal for handouts... that at least deserves a fraction of praise. I can't believe all of this fawing MSM press for the libs over a paltry 33 cents per day for the feeble... such transparent propoganda with such cost effectiveness is ironically galling... and genius of greed. don't equate Ralph with the federal Libs on even his worst day much less on one of his more generous ones re this topic... because they are 2 very different things (see part at top re equality...)

Frankly, I think a tax cut on gas excise tax is a very bad idea. If you believe that the gas market is not perfectly competitive - it being hard to argue otherwise - and if you believe that Canadians will not curb their use of cars even in the face of high prices (which all the cars I see driving around more or less demonstrates), then there's no reason to believe that a cut in the excise tax would do much more than lower the prices marginally and increase gas company profits measurably.

As for the Liberals, they may not be smarter than the Conservatives, but they start from a natural advantage, and they know when to buy votes.

Obviously we'll take it.

But lets never lose sight of the fact that they fill their own corrupt pockets first and foremost. Lets not forget how much they waste on grants and subsidies to their buddies. Lets not forget the masses of waste. And wehen we think about all that they should cut and re-allocate to gas/income tax relief and debt reduction, this is but a pi$$ in the bucket.

Alberta's and Ottawa's plans are nothing more than another hidden equalization program. They are direct transfer of funds from citizens who pay taxes above the average rate, to citizens who don't, without even integrating the program into our already generous pogey schemes.

Make the Rich Pay!, the losers ululate. Maybe some people should think a little bit about this short essay from Dr. Kamerschen, distinguished professor of economics at the University of Georgia:

"Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for dinner. The bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

"The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh $7. The eighth $12. The ninth $18. The 10th man (the richest) would pay $59.

"So, that's what they decided to do. The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the 10 only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

"So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?

"The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being PAID to eat their meal.

"So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

"And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The 10th now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

"Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got $1 out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the 10th man and exclaimed, "But he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved $1, too. It's unfair that he got 10 times more than me!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up.

"The next night the 10th man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

"And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore."

Peter:
Gas taxes are not just derived at the pump. The government even taxes it's own tax. this is amazing and yet you find virtue in this. An enormous portion of the tax starts at the well head only they call it royalties. The Libs tax oil every step of the way. Before the stuff comes out of the ground they gotta tax. It is amazing to me that someone would be in favor of more taxes or the maintenace of the status quo. These people are stealing from you. I can't understand someone who finds that a virtue or condons such behavior. Apparently you do.

Jeff: If you think taxes are stealing, then we probably shouldn't even start a conversation. BUt anyway, my point is that, as a public policy, reducing excise tax is not likely to reduce prices anytime soon. I am making a positive, not a normative statement.

Thanks Tony. Well said

Earlier suggestions was that the rebate was similiar to getting 1/3 of the original back.

Using rough figures an income of about $50,000 would have taxes in the neighbourhood of $20,000.

So $100 (rebate) /20,000 (total taxes paid)= about .5% (diddly squat)

Now thats how you buy votes, give people back a meaningless fraction of the total paid out.

The checks will only arrive if the surplus is over a certain amount. With the last minute spending spree this years surplus is magically down to 1.9 billion, sorry no checks this year. Whatever happened to the NDP budget that would take effect only if the surplus was over 2 billion dollars(?). Over the past 12 years the Liberals have squirreled away about 7 billion dollars into various 'foundations'(which by the way are beyond the reach of the Auditor General) to make the surplus appear smaller than it actually was. "In 2002-03 - Ottawa estimated a $3-billion surplus that ended up at $9.1 billion" if the surplus is that much then obviously the taxpayers are being grossly overtaxed. The Liberals are good at making promises(do away with the GST, etc.)which fail to materialize. Given the Liberals past record of being able to cause the surplus to disappear down a black hole, I see no reason to believe they will not follow the same path. Of course Sean there will always be the gullible out there who truly believe they are going to get a bonus without realizing they are being bribed with their own tax dollars. Lie, steal, cheat, "This is why the Liberals win elections"

"Of course Sean there will always be the gullible out there who truly believe they are going to get a bonus without realizing they are being bribed with their own tax dollars."

Y'know, you *may* want to read the comment thread first before adding your own remarks. I'm just sayin'...

Is taxation theft, Peter? Well, now, I do feel the common human emotion that says that if a starving man steals a loaf of bread, he's not really culpable. And I understand that our governments do some good things with some of our taxes. I am a minarchist, not an anarchist.

The problems start to crop up when the state starts stealing our televisions to give them to people who aren't starving, and stealing our good will and charity to give it to their cronies and henchmen.

In the latter cases, taxation is, indeed, theft via extortion by the protection racket known as the state.

"Taxman", by the Beatles

Let me tell you how it will be,
There’s one for you, nineteen for me,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don’t take it all,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
If you drive a car, I’ll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat,
If you get too cold, I’ll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet.
Taxman.
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Don’t ask me what I want it for
If you don’t want to pay some more
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Now my advice for those who die,
Declare the pennies on your eyes,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
And you’re working for no-one but me,
Taxman.

Right you are Tony!! I appreciate your post about the diners - this is EXACTLY what is happening in this country and Adscam martin and his ilk are getting nervous; how long can 'they' prop up GM and Ford Motor Cos., Magna etc. so their mawish minnions in Ont can continue to work for the new finance min s(buzzzz and jacko) dictated wage? Ont. MUST retain it's affluence so the Libs can be re-elected, the vote buy off goes well beyond just buying the 'I want my cheque' nobodies, this murder of crows (black robbers) must also buy off some major companies or the latter will move out!! This is a MAJOR Hit and YES!! Alta is the target. The eastern minnions are drooling as we post.

(Meta-comment: for the record, that story about the diners was by Dr. Kamerschen, not me, as I mentioned at the end of my two paragraphs of introduction. I'm not sayin' anyone's said otherwise, I just don't want anyone to accidentally give me credit for something I didn't do.)

Anyone who voted for the Conservatives should opt out of the bonus and demand an opt out provision.

But, Steve, if I am allowed to opt out of the bonus (which, as an opt-out, would mean that I don't have to pay the taxes used to implement the bonus programme either), then you will get less money, honey.

Steve, Why?

steve, personal taxes are a tiny portion of Alberta's revenues. The bulk is royalties on oil (the stuff in the ground, not in your car). Alaska has been giving bonuses, from the same thing, for years. It's very different from what PMPM & crew are proposing, which is returning OUR overtaxed dollars.

What's your problem with it? You don't live in AB?

Actually Candace, according to an article by Licia Corbella in the Sun the other day, Ottawa syphoned enough off Alberta in Equalization Payments, that the amount exceeds the royalties that Alberta receives on Oil and Gas. That means that Alberta and all its prosperity has little to do with Royalties, but all to do with the relatively good management of its tax base.

Hey, I never thought of that, Wayne. That means that if Albertans piss away more of their taxes, like Quebec does, then we won't have to pay as much to the "poorer provinces", and we'll get to keep the baubles, bangles, and bling-bling, and they'll be "poorer".

Gosh, isn't equalization wonderful?

Oh man, Wayne, it just gets better! This means that we can now justify the $40 million for a tarted-up "extension" to the beautiful minimalist Edmonton Art Gallery, since at least it will save Edmontonians a lot of time: instead of having to stop and actually go in to the EAG to see bad art, now we'll be able to see bad art just by driving by. All while giving less money to Quebec. Really, you must admit, Canada is, if nothing else, amazing.

Come on - use your head. We'll never see a thin dime from from the Liberal Party.

Oh they'll say that they are going to send us cheques. Hell, they'll say it right before an election. "But!" They'll say, "You'll only get the cheques if we win the election." And then if they do win the election, we still won't get the cheques. The budget surplus will evaporate, or we'll have to wait until Gomery Report (Gomery? Who is Gomery? Remember him?) is published.

Liberal MP's will never comment on it again, and if it is brought up by the opposition, it will be brushed off until any further question is redundant and it is clear to anyone paying attention that they will not do it, and in fact never did intend to do it. And then it will be quietly forgotten about forever.

You know it will. A sane person can't even beginn to count the number of Liberal Party promises and scandals that have gone the same way.

Hello Conservatives: strongly promise lower taxes - a Flat Tax system, if you wish to be bold - and you will pick up huge votes in Ontario, guaranteed. The silent majority votes for lower taxes! God only knows why Harper et. al. are so quiet on this issue. Harper should be saying every day: we'll cut income tax, cut corporate taxes, cut the gas tax, and stop throwing your money in the toilet. His position on the new Governor-General? "We'll lower your taxes." His position on immigration? "We'll lower your taxes." His position on gay marriage? "We'll lower your taxes."

You guys are too funny with your criticisms of the Liberal Government. There is no conspiracy at work here. Let me be clear: Canadians don't want a conservative government. We see the wackos in charge of the US and think to ourselves "That doesn't make any sense." Every plank in the Conservative platform other than the 'corruption' red herring is totally abhorrent to Canadians everywhere. If the Conservative Party were a viable alternative philosophically, perhaps they'd be in power today. The simple fact is we in Canada don't want idiots of the faith-based initiative running government. Religion has no place in politics.

Now on to the old cranks whining about taxes. Don't you people have better things to do with your lives but complain? Our standard of living here in Canada is one of the greatest in the world, and our cities are consistently up there in rankings of livability. Our country is working. Government isn't like 'an oil change'. I've never heard of a more moronic analogy. They have the experience and knowledge; why replace them with no-nothing, morally reprensible weasels? We want to keep our ideologically liberal government in place; it's what makes people happy and our country continue to prosper. There is nothing broken here.

Sean, Now that you admit to being a whore, all we have to establish is what is your price?

Of course the Liberals know how to win elections with brain-dead supporters like you as a supporter. We know an election is coming up real soon when they step in and make sure all the Pravda workers are back propagandizing at the CBC, and they get the cheque book out and buy off all the whores. Right?

The Cockeyed Optimist.
'There are probably very few Canadian Socialists'.

Sean, your such a fool.
There are so many hoops to jump through YOU will not see a dime.

Horny Toad

Colin, are you playing 'Devil's Advocate'? Your post sounded far too much like a MSM 'bimbo' screech to be real! It is getting increasingly difficult to ruffle feathers here on the right (sane) side of the blogosphere because the Liberanos and Adscam Martine has pushed us beyond outrage. You need to start hinting how the west should vote for the Liberal Criminal outfit if they want a say in Rottawa, or mention nationalizing energy under Adscam Martin and his gang - that will get a reaction!! Simple denial is 'de rigour' in this sad, corrupt country.

Sorry, gotta disagree. What you're calling a week's worth of groceries for your family was a week and a half's worth of groceries before the liberals took it from you in the first place.

All that red tape it found itself ensnared on before finding its way back to your pocketbook ripped serious chunks of money-flesh from its body.

It IS 'election herring.' And the liberals are NOT better at connecting with Joe Canadian, they're better at spending money to brainwash Joe Canadian. They indoctrinated Joe Canadian into thinking that a quick cash grab is better than paying down a debt which is crippling them and which will further erode their next pittance the next time the liberals need to buy some votes.

With your attitude, your next cheque (that you happily spend) will buy you half a week's worth of groceries.

The North Koreans are happy when it's Kim Jong-Il's birthday, incidentally, because they get double rice portions that day. Not noodles, perhaps, but run that around your brain - just once - are we so far behind?

colin said:
"The simple fact is we in Canada don't want idiots of the faith-based initiative running government. Religion has no place in politics."

ok, fair enough. but then he continues:

"They have the experience and knowledge; why replace them with no-nothing, morally reprensible weasels?"

Colin you seem to be confused on the connection between morals and religion...

If Colin is serious (his comments are so far off the charts that I have to question it) it is a clear example of what is wrong in this country. As a business owner, I will take an honest trainee any day rather than a well trained executive who's experience is largely limited in how to defraud his employer.

A school teacher recently told me that there are kids in her school who would never see their Juniors play in the home town rink unless someone outside the family bought them a ticket. In Colin's world, I guess that's alright as long as Liberal politicans can have their ADSCAM friends supply them with corporate boxes, drinks, and other forms of personal entertainment at NHL games.
Colin's Canada is not my Canada.

well, wayne, it's obvious from your 'business owner' experience that you understand this issue well. a new government isn't a new trainee. it's a whole new company with a different ideology. if you want a conservative government, that's fine, vote for them, but it's still a fact that Canadians don't want religion or conservative (read: intrusive) values messing with their lives. arguably, and this isn't a troll, the conservative party would be as culpable in terms of corruption (although i suspect they'd actually be much worse).

in fact, i'm not confused at all. religion and morals are two separate, but related entities. we certainly don't need faith-based initiatives here in Canada, where facts and rational thought are how we make decisions. the conservative party is morally reprehensible because not only do they want religion to intrude on people's lives (whether they believe in it or not), but they are only using that platform to get into power so they can continue doing what conservatives do best, which is sell out the country to corporate interests, increase government spending and create deficits. you can't argue with history. the liberals have done a fanastic job running the country and if you continue to spit venom about corruption, then you need to give your head a shake.

"Colin's Canada is not my Canada"

you don't even know me. i hate government corruption as much as you all do, but does it make one lick of sense to trash years of building, tear down everything we've fought for to create this nation and rebuild it as a clone of the United States? If that's what you want, move down there.

Colin, you're level of tolerance for painting half of canada with the hue of religious fanaticism is revolting. There are a lot of christian Liberals too so what makes them so tolerable vs conservative one's? Also a lot of people vote conservative who have no religious affiliation whatsoever because they see this country dying from the inside out for many social, legal, hyporitical, morally relativist, fiscal, managerial, dictatorial, nanny-state reasons... you are one sick self deluded puppy to think the status quo is the best we can do simply because someone who says healthcare needs fixing is wrong simply because he might go to church once in while. You're blindness in believing that anyone with a god-based belief system can't separate church and state from anywhere outside of central canada is crap... I dare you to find 5 liberals who publically say they are "godless"... punk...lackey..."useful state propogandist idiot" Try thinking outside of the box and and help get rid of this stinking corruption... by at least first opening your eyes and looking around you. Alberta will be the last "have" province because they arent afraid to call a spade a spade and give people a chance to prove themselves religious or otherwise to do what it takes to make things WORK. And you have the audacity to call us rednecks!! look in a mirror.

Ward, 12:52/6th

Is that you? This is the place to be eh? Good posts here.

You mentioned how the crafty Libranos have the MSM under the spell. They are a huge advertiser with our money all right.

Big bonuses are another influence pedaling tool they use with skill.

Sheila Fraser and her crooked books detectives.
A cast of thousands by the way, took 12 years to expose Guite and Adscam.

They first knew about it when Allan Coulter raised hell about signing fake contracts in Guite's office over 12 years ago.

It's only because Whistle-Blower law had no teeth that the Libranos got away with it.

So Sheila and her army have all been getting juicy big bonuses regardless of performance or because of silence and loyalty.

I wonder if there are a sharp one or two people who know how to get onto:
http://My.Opera.com/T-G

A new site not yet listed on Google. Use Technorati search, that will work, I think.

Enjoy, also, *The Manolo* Entertaining and NY-High Style...fun: http://shoeblogs.com 73s TG

ok, back from the hallway; checked the mirror and there's nothing unusual in the reflection. plucked a couple of rogue eyebrow hairs, but that's it. i'm not sure what your point is other than you want someone from out west to be PM. i never called you a redneck, and in fact i didn't mention or allude to the west at all. also, you 'conservative bloggers' demean yourself when you imply that people who don't think like you are insane. please, let's keep the rhetoric at a minimum, here.

you're incorrect when you assume I am categorizing all conservatives as religiously fantatical, i was merely describing the pathetic latching-on of the conservative party to the homophobic christian right as part of their support base. realistically, many people who would consider themselves 'christian' do not hate gay people. i'm just pulling out hypothetical numbers out of my butt here, but if i had to guess, i'd say the homophobic church-goers probably comprise about 25% of the conservative base (although they're definitively the most vocal and full of hate). The most problematic group is made up of corporate wannabes who want to turn government into puppets, nationalistic right-wingers who want to destroy the fabric of the nation, 'every man for himself' rightists, and whiny small business owners complaining about taxes (what else is new?). remember, you don't have to vote conservative by default because you believe there has been government corruption, because you have other parties to choose from, there are other parties with ideals and integrity that won't sell us out.

Likeliness of the Liberals running a surplus over $3B this year and sending out cheques - 50%

Likeliness of the Liberals running a surplus over $3B next year after the election and sending out cheques - 0%

So don't spend your cheque before it shows up, they are trying to look like they are making tax cuts when they really aren't.

Colin,
"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Scary stuff, eh?

The business community support the Liberal Party of Canada, Trade Unions support the NDP while the Conservative Party is supported by mainstream Canadians.

Your knowledge of Canada's fiscal and economic history is weak - possibly tainted by rose coloured 20/20 glasses.

BTW Colin, do you 'know' why the Reform Party was founded?

BTW2 Colin, as a former Quebec resident, let me remind you that support for Quebec independence continues to grow while support for western separation is at its higherst point ever in the history of Canada. Might there be root causes for those 'negative' forces?

BTW3, Have a happy thanksgiving:

On January 31, 1957 Parliament issued a proclamation to fix permanently the second Monday in October as "a day of general Thanksgiving to Almighty God for the bountiful harvest with which Canada has been blessed."

Colin... if I may paraphrase you in one instance as an example... the less homophobic a party is perceived to be the easier it is to accept lying and stealing?.
That's like saying if you're gay you're right about everything and that if you're homophobic you can't be patriotic or right about anything.
you really have a talent for imagining the worst case scenario in everyone who disagrees with your view of the Liberals... i.e. Donald Trump might be a homophobe but he hires gay people... one philosophically intolerant lifestyle viewpoint doesn't automatically negate tolerance in reality and success in business. Or in a more melodramatic fashion... a bit of homophobia won't bring the world crashing down ... nor would a bit of libertarianism or a bit of acceptance for the U.S. An example being that plenty of homophobes died for this country in the world wars to protect your freedom to support corruption but it doesn't make their sacrifice any less noble or profound. i.e.2 Lots of homophobic people don't go around lynching gay people. Philosophical differences are the cornerstone of a true democracy...demonizing lifestyle beliefs for the sake of devaluing everything else they might say that might make sense is a ridiculous overreaction and nonsensical. You sound a lot like Hedy Fry talking about burning crosses... she was pulling facts out of her butt too... i would hope that profound decisions about governance aren't always this dependant on "butt" truths...
Believe it or not I know gay people who don't believe in same-sex marriage or the Liberano$$$$ way of doing things either... so, example me this, why is homophobia and it's percentage so important to you???

it's a hot-button issue right now, that the conservatives have made their #2 platform (after so-called corruption. it's a mere symbol of the conservative way of thinking. you speak of libertarianism; conservative is always at loggerheads with libertarianism as conservatives believe in legislating morality. trudeau said it best - the government has no place in the bedrooms of the nation. if you tolerate hate to any special interest group, then as they say 'god help you'. i could easily pick on them for their lying promises of bringing spending down and cutting taxes - in reality spending will go up and deficits will ensue. i could also mention their irresponsible disregard for the environment. this works for the poor albertans who need jobs, but no one's going to want to move to (and most are going to want to escape) alberta in 50 years when it's a sesspool of pollution.

it's just very easy for conservatives now to cry foul, and not really talk about issues, as you all have done in this forum. both sides should be focused on the future of canada and not petty squabbling about the past.

also, keep talking anselm, you're proving my points.

also - don't co-opt our descriptors to give legitimacy to your extremist POV. by definition, the liberal party (and indeed left, inclusive of the bloq and ndp) is the mainstream. the right is the extreme, minority POV.

Colin,
How old are you? 12?

C... as I said before... name 5 Liberals who have said publically that they don't believe in a faith-based belief system that doesn't condemn sodomy and when you can't then please explain to me why Liberal's in your mind are somehow granted the free pass of presumption that they are so much more gifted at separating church and state than the small albeit vocal percentage of conservatives in all areas of the country who have the same belief system. The liberals supported marriage as an opposite sex only contract in parliament only a couple of years ago - if history is so important to you-there's another historical fact that proves the liberals also support what you're calling hatred. You are picking and choosing minor battles and missing the point- systemic corruption deserves punishment. corruption and fermenting regionalist dispute during elections and schemes designed to limit prosperity and growth... consistently attacking in the only remaining truly prosperous province left as the liberals are doing does in fact MUCH more harm to CANADA than bloody snootiness about the legitimacy of anal sex. Focus, my friend, on the bigger picture if even for just a few years of a different government... focus on the target... drunken arrogant power with zero accountability is destroying the country much more than bedroom politics is... why don't you want to smack it in the nose?
And also, I sincerely defy you to find and email me this catastrophe of polution in Alberta that you are fearmongering about... I've lived all over Canada and have seen a lot of the American eastern steel belt... Alberta is a hell of a lot cleaner than Montreal and Toronto and a thousand times cleaner than Chicago, pittsburgh et al environmentally speaking... so what's the basis of your environmental bashing? but that's it, give the Liberals credit for something they have no history of doing anything effective about... Kyoto is a redistribution of wealth scheme, my friend.. nothing more. Martin says a good speech once in a while but what has he really done for you and I to STRENGTHEN CANADA? And if it's my money youre after under the guise of saying conservatives are all hateful anti gay bastards then you'll be silly to think that I'm not going to fight to keep your fingers out of my wallet when we're already giving ROC more back in equalization than the entire natural resource surplus for last year. The conservatives aren't Satan and the Liberals have had 3 governments to do something positive... name a handful of positive achievements! it's time for a change even for just change's sake alone becasue there aren't even that many ... just 5...Liberal success stories - sadly!

Ummm, for the record: being against something does not mean you hate it. Therefore being against homosexuality does not mean you hate homosexuals, no matter how much the militant gay lobby wants you to think so.

Anselm.. Happy Thanksgiving too as I see Colin hasn't wished it back for you yet.
Colin, it's just a political party, man... nothing more... full of frailties, agendas, and egos like everyone else. Don't believe EVERYTHING they say on the surface...they're politicians and lawyers, for gods sake... geez]

The Liberals are better at connecting with JOE CANADIAN what the hell does that mean that Joe is as corrupt as the Liberals . Let me tell you if the electorate can be bought off with a few lousy dollars to forgive the theft and cronisim and waste of this govt then we are no better than the Liberals and we deserve the govt we get as for me they can take that bribe money and shove it.I'll feed my family honestly thank you very much.

Also colin is a metrosexual Liberal pimp nothing anybody says is going to change his hysterical rant .Colin you should think of joining svens camp and help in his run for another seat. I mean you have no problem backing thieves and this one is also gay so it should make you all gushy and feel good. Colin we don't hate gays we hate crooked politicians.