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Tracked on September 30, 2005 5:55 AM

No surprise. I've had my eyes open and saw nothing at all to lead me to believe the Libranos have done anything to get the Forces ready for anything except some "peacekeeping" somewhere...

Just one of a multitude of critical reasons to get the Liberals out of power THIS election, and this message applies to Liberal voters as well as Tory voters. That's how monumentally important it is to send the NGP to the political wilderness. If they're returned, then all bets are off for the future of Canada.

The report states the military manning should be no less than 90,000. That's about right ..... for a start. When I joined the RCAF in the mid-50s we had a strength of 52,000, the Canadian Army was at 50,000 and the RCN had 20,000. Of equal importance we were fully engaged in the Cold War and we had a government which had the courage to pay its way and support us with first class equipment and facilities. Our government was proud of us and we were proud of our government.

Now look at us and see what is left after a succession of "I-Don't-Care" governments who have no use for the military except to use it for social engineering. What a crime! Is this not sedition? Is this not worse than subversion? Damn the Liberals! Damn the PCs! Damn the NDP! Damn everyone who is responsible for destroying a competent Army, Navy and Air Force!

Hi there, being reading Kates blog site, have found it very interesting and very informative. I would not be so fast as blame the goverments: IE [LIB>CON>NDP or any party] for that manner. The demise of our system, social or progresive may have started in the 40or50s when the crooked bastards found out they could steal the tax dollars allocated for the military, the people let them. They have being doing for a couple of centuries before that by creating Indian Affairs. They took muskets for a gun in WW1, they stood by when they took the meneral rights away for the ordinary canadian. The point being how much have every goverments being stealing money from the tax dollar being collected as they cut back one program and start another IE: such as the [GUN REGERSTRIE]. Probabley the 1 or 2 billion could have bought some jeeps, meds or even a few planes and boats. OH OH I forgot they cut back on them too, mabey the money they have stolen from ad-scam 1 billion+ could have bought some recue helicopters, OH YEAH the milatary dosent need these, thay can use magic transporters. Oh and what about the BILLION DOLLAR BOON BOGGLE, oh shit every Canadian forgot. So sorry for venting. Merle

In her speech GG Jean referred only to "peacekeepers", not troops or the Canadian Forces.

This chart from "Canadian Military History News" says it all. Note that military expenditure (% of GDP) was 2.2% in 1976, 2.1% in 1993, and 1.1% in 2003.

http://northernblue.ca/mblog/index.php

So in just over a decade the Liberals have cut defence spending in half as a percentage of GDP.

In 1966 the strength of the Canadian Forces was 107,467; in 2003, 57,863. In 1966 the population of Canada was about 20 million, in 2003 about 30 million. In other words with a population 50% larger than in 1966, the total size of the Forces in 2003 was 50% less. Or, put another way, the per capita strength is only 1/3 what it was.

And see this excerpt from the "Defence Policy Statement", April, 2005:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/reports/dps/main/05_e.asp#2_1

"The Air Forces [why plural?] will be able to:
...
*deploy for up to six months to a prepared base in a secure location an Air Expeditionary Unit as an integral element of a Mission-Specific Task Force. This would consist of:

* one Airbus configured for air-to-air refueling, and
* six CF-18 aircraft for air-to-ground missions."

So, the sum total of Canada's air combat capability overseas will be six/six fighters. Bet you the US, NATO, UN etc. are just jumping up and down for joy at the prospect of such a contribution. It is hard to see how it could be cost-effective or militarily effective.

I suspect in fact that no such deployment will ever occur and we have seen the end of the Canadian Air Force as a real combat arm (which for both financial reasons and military utility should be done openly). Gen. Hillier just couldn't have the honesty, or the aquiescence of the Air Force, to admit it at this time. You will note there is no plan to replace the CF-18s which will probably be Canada's last fighter. Meanwhile Australia and The (warmongering) Netherlands are planning now to buy the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to replace respectively their F-18s and F-16s.

I would point out that during the 1999 NATO air campaign against Serbia--which did not have authorization by the UN Security Council--the Canadian Air Force provided eighteen CF-18s, based in Italy, for bombing missions. So, seven years later, we plan for an unrealistic overseas fighter deployment only one-third as large. And the Liberals consider that is strengthening Canada's military capability.

Mark
Ottawa

"Canada’s Military Not Ready to Defend Against Terrorists"

Cue Gomer Pyle: "SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!"

Come on. If Canada ever caught a terrorist and did the right thing,(like turning them over to the Yanks) the Red Cross and Andrew Sullivan would be all over our ass. Can't have that now can we.

I am just finishing a 21 year career in the Canadian Forces (you see the pc thugs made us take the armed out of Canadian Armed Forces)and I have to tell you there is no sense having a well armed well funded military if the federal govt is never going to have the balls to use them.As long as we keep electing a corrupt immoral govt that just sees us as peace keepers WTF is the use.Know there is talk of diversifing the CF .I truely weep for my country.

Diversifing= more women ,aboriginals,and more visible minorities. So in other words white males need not apply

This news comes as a big surprise to the sleepwalkers in the maple syrup capital of the world. Canada does not have the capability, nor the will to protect itself. We played a reckless game when we challenged Spain and the Portugal over the turbot, and lately made nasty faces at Denmark over Hans Island. Good thing we had a bigger, kinder brother standing behind us.

WAKE UP CANADA!

BCer and Patriot,
The degregation of the Army. Air Force and Navy began with Paul Hellier. He was a Liberal.I believe the guy now in charge of continueing that degregation is also name Hillier, also a Liberal.
"nuff said?

Oh goody...now the PMO scum have an excise to call in UN foreign troops to quell ANY national emergency. The blue helmets are coming to save us from ourselves.

Remember, Big Nanny loves you.

I am ex RCN I like many others was forced out during treaudeaus reign of terror. I spent 13y 10m 2days in the service of my country and as a parting shot along with a letter of thanks the liberal crooks stole half my severance pay, aprox 2,000.oo. Hellier and pearson started the destruction of the CAF. Anyone who objected to their micro management was fired. Landymore Et Al. This left only brown nosers in charge. When I was in I was descriminated against because I was single white and anglo. Hard proof, when yearly evaulations came around you were judged by a point system, you needed so many points to get promoted. If you were french you got an extra three points. If you learned french you got one. If any one out there is thinking of joining the forces or knows any one that is thinking that way DON"T SIGN ANYTHING until you've had a laywer check it and then get it noterised and keep a copy locked away. Don't worry if you demand this they probably woun't let you in anyway. Sorry to spout off so much but the way I feel about the Government of Canada in particular is probably apparent. They are liars theves and killers and being stuffed down the hole in the out-house is too good for them

old squid; it started long before Paul Hellyer. If I was forced to select a time when I realized the slide began I would have to say it was when Medicare was made law. Believe it or not, the naysayers were told by the government that "the public enthusiastically accepts Medicare ..... look at the military where thousands volunteered to join Medicare". Volunteered? When and how? I certainly don't recall anyone asking me what system of medical care I preferred for my family. I believe that the government realized at that point that the military was a very useful tool for massive social engineering and it has continued to this day. For instance, see what "a patriot" has to say above about the current program of "diversification" of the armed forces. It was ever thus. I detested Hellyer for what he did to us .... I guess we all hated him .... but we can't say he began the destruction of the military. It started before Unification.

" If Canada ever caught a terrorist and did the right thing,(like turning them over to the Yanks) ....... Andrew Sullivan would be all over our ass. "

Bobonthebellbuoy,

I don't relish the thought of that and don't think many at SDA would.

Wayne in Wetaskiwin

I was young when Hellier started his armed forces "make over".

But I've always suspected that many of the most competent and honourable officers and men, resigned over time, rather than go along with the Liberal charade.

This country does not need a military to defend itself against terrorists- it's easier to let them park their spawn here, ( at the taxpayers expense), and keep our border porous to allow them access to the United States. This will all change, the first time one gets through.
And with our national police force and the courts in on the scam, the last thing we need is an armed military to clean up the mess.

The name is Hellyer, Paul Hellyer, and nowadays he believes in UFOs. Hillier, on the other hand is talking the talk, hope he follows through. Too damned bad General Lew isn't at the helm

Squid, BCer, Patriot, et al,
I hear your pain y'all. Having joined up a bit after Hellier corporals and sh*t green uniforms came out, I worked with a lot of 'old school' types in the regular and reserve forces. The stories of 4 whole fighter wings in Europe alone just filled me with envy. Now we maybe able to send a tanker and six whole fighters... wow I am truly not impressed.

Not a single government while I spent my 22 years actually did anything productive for our Canadian (Armed) Farces. We used to think we were still great because we made do with what we had but that isn't even the case now. Go to Basic Training and if the instructor yells at you then you give him a warning card! They are not allowed to swear at the angels. I learned a lot of colourful vocabulary from my DIs. Wanna to be a pilot?? You go to a civilian flying school (sort of loses the espirit de corps don't it). We are a laughing stock. We insist on buying items that are not off the shelf but that have the most political kick backs. CF-5 and CF-18 overhaul deals come to mind. Can't even get a M-16 but have to put a "Canadian" flavour to it.

The Canadian Forces is a mere shell of it's former greatness and that truely hurts. Will it ever change? I honestly don't think so. Canadian society today is so jaded by moonies and the progressive socialism that they cannot see the reason for a military. What these enlightened thinkers don't realize is the most socialist of countries have a strong military.

Sorry to make this long but I'm back in Calgary for a visit and just found out what beer costs here. Ouch!

Anyhow, keep your stick on the ice, eh.

TC, if you are buying beer in Calgary, make sure it is a Big Rock Traditional. Worth the price.

After WWII, Canada could defend itself. Everybody thought that there was no need for a military after that, everything is gonna be alright. Heck Igor Gouzenko couldn't get Dudley Doright and the Horsemen to believe his story. They were more interested in preventing another Winnipeg General Strike. The Chief did in the Arrow, Hellyer and Chairman Trudeau did the rest. The men and women of the Canadian Forces do a lot with very little, and then get kicked in the teeth. To quote Rudyard Kipling, "it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, but it's Mr. Atkins when the guns begin to roar." When the balloon goes up, the pols will be quick to point fingers.

Hey DT,
Actually, I prefer Grasshopper with a slice of lime ;-) Also, try a micro brewery in Canmore, Grizzly Paw I think. Great stuff & grub too.

The only "valuable" purpose of the Canadian forces is to quell separation attempts by any province. The forces can't respond effectively to natural disasters (i.e. Que. ice storm and last year's tsunami),it has very little ability to project any strength outside our borders and every maritime rescue operation is tempting disaster with equipment twice as old as the brave souls using it.

However, the forces could make our citizen's lives into a real hell. Say for instance in Calgary, by taking out a couple of traffic interchanges causing commute times to double. That alone could take the wind out of the sails of western separatism.

Could the change in military forces (numbers and funding) from 1966 to the present day have anything to do with the end of the Cold War?

Or do you seriously think that terrorists (Islamic terrorists, obviously) are a threat equal in scale to the Soviets?

The Liberals are definitely to blame with the state of our forces. But it's more important that we have the armed forces that we need, and I'm not convinced that it's money or manpower that is going to solve the problem.

A lack of vision and lack of will to make that vision a reality are the root causes for our forces' state of affairs. If you shamed the Liberals into restoring some military funding, it wouldn't make any difference to the end product's effectiveness at all.

See latest report by Senate Committee on National Security and Defence (Colin Kenny, Liberal, Chair)

"September 2005: WOUNDED - Canada’s Military and the Legacy of Neglect: Our Disappearing Options for Defending the Nation Abroad and at Home"
http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/defe-e/rep-e/repintsep05-e.htm

Mark
Ottawa

Hey Martin B, Calgary used to have an Army base until the Libranos punished Conservative Calgary and pulled it out by the roots and moved it to Edmonton where Crazy Annie McLelland holds out as one of the few Libranos in the west.

M@ are you kidding me do you know the burn out rate of our soldiers and sailors its huge and all because the libs want to play on the big world stage and not have to pay for it.Buddy we are just a sound bite used by our corrupt govt.

Yep, D-Thomas...take away Calgary's military base and now "Fort Calgary" is empty.

The developer selling up the pieces of CFB Calgary loves it though...as does the Tsuu T'ina reserve for getting back some land to turn into a large Casino near the heart of Calgary.

Good thing we don't get hurricanes, earthquakes or tsunami's here...if Calgary ever got hit with a natural disaster a couple of dozen black jack tables may not seem quite a good trade for closing the base.

A. Patriot - I don't know what you think I said, A., but I think you misread me. I'm saying that more money and soldiers doesn't matter when we don't know what we want our forces to be and why we want them to exist. That's what I mean by vision.

What good would it do to increase the size of our forces while proportionally increasing our worldwide commitments? We'd just get more burned out soldiers. More soldiers with inadequate equipment.

Throwing money at this is a surface solution. We've got to build a legitimate armed forces that reflects the country we want to be on the world stage. I'm cool with being another Sweden, or another Switzerland, or whatever, as long as what we do and what we have are both in synch.

In fact, I'm cool with being a sound bite. Let's be the right sound bite though.

And incidentally, I was in the artillery reserves for three years. I don't have your experience, and I defer to your better understanding of the military from the inside, unquestionably. But I'm on the military's side in this. I'm not sure why you even bring up the Liberals, because it goes without saying that they've been screwing up our military for two generations, and anyone who knows anything about the military wants that to change.