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July 23, 2005

"The Left Lied And Londoners Died"

Jeff Goldstein quotes a Times item that indicates London suicide bomber Shehzad Tanweer was motivated by a "need for violent retaliation over US abuse of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo Bay";

I hope the next time George Galloway or Ken Livingstone feel compelled to preach about "root causes,' they're willing to look at themselves in the mirror. And by themselves I mean themselves--not some symbollic representative of the phantom white and wealthy capitalist/imperialist oppressor class.

The same goes for the Democrats here who have spent months and months decrying and sensationalizing the "torture" at Guantanamo that, it so happens, didn't take place.


Read the rest


Posted by Kate at July 23, 2005 4:31 PM
Comments

You're kidding, right? Now the left is responsible because terrorists are retaliating for torture that the US did commit at Gitmo. Do you right whingers ever take personal responsibility like you blather on about or is that clearly just more BS from the right?

Posted by: Robert McClelland at July 23, 2005 4:42 PM

Hey, lookie! Robert McClelland bears out Bill's observation in my post's coda!

No matter that the official report declared that there was no torture -- or that US law makers who have finally made the trip to Gitmo rather than listen to the agit prop dished out by Amnesty International and other groups with similar dubious motives -- that's just not as sexy as the imagination, in which redneck 'murkin soldiers beat up on brown people just for "bein' brown an' furriners."

Of course, McClelland is one of the most notorious trolls in the blogosphere, so his framing of the narrative really shouldn't come as much of a surprise...

Flame on, Bobby. I'll leave you to it.

Posted by: Jeff G at July 23, 2005 5:06 PM

Oops. Don't know what happenened, but that second paragraph should begin "No matter that the official report declared that there was no torture -- or that US law makers who have finally made the trip to Gitmo rather than listen to the agit prop dished out by Amnesty International and other groups with similar dubious motives have reported no findings of abuse, and indeed have declared Gitmo a state-of-the-art facility..."

Posted by: Jeff G at July 23, 2005 5:08 PM

Synchronicity. See this:
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2005/07/you-never-know-whats-going-to-happen.html

Posted by: Sigmund, Carl and Alfred at July 23, 2005 5:08 PM

"When we are dealing with such situations we have to understand why it happens," he said. "To explain is not to justify."
this is a comment what our leaders want us to agree with.

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/article.jsp?content=20050725_109262_109262

what are we becoming?
refuge for garbage?

Posted by: george at July 23, 2005 5:09 PM

To combine earlier, but relevant, posts:

As to the claim that "radical" Muslims are just a tiny minority, see this story in Daily Telegraph, July 23, " One in four [British] Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=5V55JEHITDNJ1QFIQMGSNAGAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/07/23/npoll23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/23/ixnewstop.html

And see this in the Guardian, July 23, by Osama Saeed, a spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain: "Back to you, Mr Blair: It is wrong to put the onus on British Muslims to defeat terror".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1534715,00.html

Excerpts:

"Mr Blair has attacked the idea of the caliphate - the equivalent of criticising the Pope. He has also remained silent in the face of a rightwing smear campaign against such eminent scholars as Sheikh al-Qaradawi - a man who has worked hard to reconcile Islam with modern democracy. Such actions and omissions fuel the suspicion that we are witnessing a war on Islam itself...

...apologies need to be extended to Britain's explicit roles in creating the injustices in the Muslim world - from the mess that colonial masters left in Kashmir..."

So, the Caliphate is OK; Osama will appreciate that (there go Spain and Portugal I guess). And Kashmir (problem started in 1947) is added to the list of Muslim grievances against the West (odd that Indian killing of tens of thousands in Kashmir more recently is not mentioned).

Where it will all end, knows Allah. Or maybe Messrs Galloway, Livingstone, Kennedy, Chretien et al.

God bless General Hillier.

Mark
Otttawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 23, 2005 5:24 PM

'Tanweer was motivated by a "need for violent retaliation over US abuse of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo Bay"'

Are Americans imprisoning, mistreating, putting panties on the heads of, Muslims in the London tube?

Did Tanweer forbear to turn left at Greenland?

Could he not have taken a cheap package tour to Fidel's island paradise and then blown up some innocent Cubans in the neighbourhood of Gitmo to express his displeasure at the Americans?

What we have here is a failure to imagine.

Col. Jessup to Galloway, Livingstone, Kennedy, Chretien, et al.: "You can't handle the truth...You don't want the truth."

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 23, 2005 5:42 PM

Sorry: Col. "Jessop".

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 23, 2005 5:43 PM

So did the poor sod that was shot in the head after the special forces(in plain clothes) had subdued him on the train. It has now been reported that he had nothing to do with the bombings. Our leaders are scared out of their minds, shooting innocent people in fear, and this is just the start. Our own police can enter our homes without a warrant, wiretap our phones, read our emails and collect all manner of info on us--we are prisoners in our own country--and nothing the leaders can write or institute will have one iota of impact on the 'terrorists'. We pay the price for the world leaders mis-steps in the ME. We are on our own

Posted by: Died at July 23, 2005 5:54 PM

Died: Please provide the factual basis for your assertion (I assume you are referring to Canada unless your "we" means that Canada has reverted to pre-1867 status) that "Our own police can enter our homes without a warrant, wiretap our phones, read our emails and collect all manner of info on us--we are prisoners in our own country..."

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 23, 2005 6:13 PM

Died; Silly me. Of course your were referring to Pierre Trudeau's invoking of the War Measure Act in 1970 and the jailing of over 1,000 Canadian without charge.

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 23, 2005 6:24 PM

The guy has lived in England for years, speaks perfect English and was repeatedly asked to stop. He was wearing a parka in the middle of summer, running out of the home of one of the suspects and kept running. MI-5 seemed to think that in light of recent events, he might be wired and shot him in the head so as to avoid setting off any bomb wired to his body, according to the recent BBC newscast. Red Ken yesterday said the police would be doing that to prevent any chance of a suicide bomber detonating a bomb while cops were trying to arrest him. Is Rober McLelland really Warren Kinsella?

Posted by: Iron Lady at July 23, 2005 8:28 PM

LGF catches London Times neutering Churchill's words:>>>>>>>>>>>>.
What Sir Winston Really Said

LGF reader Allon emailed to point out that the London Times article we noted earlier today neuters the full force of Sir Winston’s message; political correctness strikes again. Here’s what Churchill really wrote in its entirety, after the horrific battle to wrest control of Sudan from the jihadis of the 19th century:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
>>>>>>> Read/Download from here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4943

Posted by: maz2 at July 23, 2005 9:17 PM

Protests against Islamist murders: Where is AdScam Martin? Where is MinDefCan Graham? Where is Annie "Got-Your-Guns" McLellan? Where is Ripper Jack Layton? Are they supporting the Islamist murderers by remaining silent?
Librano$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$: Appeasers.

AN ANTI-TERROR RALLY BY MUSLIMS in Antelope Valley, California.

You know, if these people had blown something up, they'd be getting more press. Which suggests that if the press wants to help eliminate terrorism, it should adjust its priorities.

UPDATE: Here's a report of an antiterror protest in Iraq, too. The same point applies.

ANOTHER UPDATE: There's more anti-terror protest action in Denmark.
posted at 01:40 PM by Glenn Reynolds Permalink
>>>>>>>>>> Instapundit.com

Posted by: maz2 at July 23, 2005 9:26 PM

Under C36(Security Act) the Liberal government has almost as may powers to incarcerate without charge, enter a home or establishment without a warrant, monitor emails, phonecalls or any other communication, gather information on anyone and share this info with other law agencies around the world. We may think this applies only to people from the MR but that is not stated--it is for anyone who lives in Canada--Died is absolutely right--

Posted by: George at July 23, 2005 11:06 PM

The McLelland troll should know that when a US Senate visit to Gitmo, including the senior balloon from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy, occurred recently, the US Military folks there strongly voiced their anger and resentment to these bloated worthies, who've relentlessly slandered them for paltry political purposes. This news is out, despite the MSM and other lackeys like McLelland, and the anger builds. The Left's lies continue to shrivel as the zeitgeist builds anew.

Posted by: Jeff in Pullman, WA at July 23, 2005 11:59 PM

Meanwhile, from that far-left publication, Forbes, we have the following article:

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html

That was just last month. So much for smearing Amnesty International and "other groups with dubious motives," unless people here plan to include Washington on the shoot-to-kill list.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 24, 2005 7:58 AM

Meanwhile, from that far-left publication, Forbes, we have the following article:

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html

That was just last month. So much for smearing Amnesty International and "other groups with dubious motives," unless people here plan to include Washington on the shoot-to-kill list.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 24, 2005 7:59 AM

TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE/DRY-RUN OPERATION DISCOVERED AND STOPPED


Here's some terrorism-related info I found, apparently an internal US military memo, basically indicating the following:

"On 14 Jul 05, three individuals were observed outside of the perimeter of Tinker AFB, OK. They were looking through binoculars, taking pictures and one appeared to be holding a large weapon at chest level. The weapon appeared to be aimed towards a low flying aircraft. The three individuals were described as being of Middle Eastern decent and left the area when approached. The weapon was later identified as a rocket launcher (MANPAD) and the low flying aircraft to be a B-1 Bomber. FBI in Oklahoma City and AFOSI determined the threat to be credible. Due to this and other recent incidents and security concerns surrounding Tinker AFB, OK, the potential for suspicious activity in the Tinker AFB (TAFB) Area of Responsibility (AOR) has increased. While there is no specific threat information directed towards the TAFB AOR, it is imperative that all personnel remember their responsibilities to report any and all suspicious activity they observe."

The corresponding URL is:

http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted%2edb&command=viewone&id=36

Posted by: Stephen McAllister at July 24, 2005 8:37 AM

Mark: Your comment above to Died. I dont know whether you were being facetious or not in your first reply, but under the Firearms Act, if the police even suspect you have an unregistered firearm they can enter your home. The slippery slope is definitely there for abuse.

Posted by: MikeP at July 24, 2005 9:23 AM

The Ottawa Citizen/National Post's Juliette O'Neil knows full well what the RCMP can do in this country. She's still fighting her way through the court system, and according to Greg Weston at the Sun, is winning each battle in her fight to protect sources and inform the public.
Good editorial in today's Toronto Sun (www.torontosun.com). It's on how poll shows 52% want Martin dumped, how the Libs re looking (seriously) at Bob Rae, etc. and just a general overview of how PMPM has fared in the past 20 months as a self-proclaimed Canadian Idol.

Posted by: Iron Lady at July 24, 2005 9:42 AM

Let the Libs have Bob Rae. Ontarians will remember what he did to them. That's all they need to guarantee self-defeat. Hope they get the communist to lead them into the future.

The pathetic fools... thy name is "Liberal".

Posted by: Stephen McAllister at July 24, 2005 11:09 AM

Hey, "Robert McClelland", did you read that about the Muslims holding anti-terror protests and getting no coverage by the MSM? You see, if the MSM refuses to cover the good Muslims who oppose terror by other Muslims, then the MSM must be in favor of terrorism, as it sells papers and gets viewers. They figure there's no point, financially or otherwise, in being fair and balanced in their coverage.

And, we know the Libranos give millions and millions of our hard-earned dollars all the time to extremist left-wing groups who continually go onto the MSM and say frighteningly horrible falsehoods about the Conservatives, complete with hysterical screeching and sometimes crocodile tears, while the good Muslims get absolutely nothing and not even any MSM attention.

Are the Liberals in favor of terrorism, too, as logic would dictate due to the above facts?

Posted by: Stephen McAllister at July 24, 2005 11:20 AM

Hey McLelland Dawg! Anyone who quotes UN documents, especially those with such an obvius political spin as the anonymously written one from Geneva, is a prime-time fool. (Let's hear your take on the Oil-for-Food Scandal, chump.)Perhaps you should go to lawofnations.blogspot.com/2005/06/us-admits-to-torture.html to have everything better explained, but, remember, people of "tolerance and diversity" only listen to their masters.

Posted by: Jeff in Pullman, WA at July 24, 2005 1:42 PM

The UN is a sick joke. It's even more worthless than the League of Nations, as it seems today to have been effectively hijacked by tyrants and terrorist states.

I would like to see the UN replaced by an expanded "Coalition of the Willing". I'd rather go along with a doctrine of proactively stamping out the Hitlers and Saddams of the world rather than waiting for them to kill millions of their own and then lob plutonium into our backyards...

Posted by: Stephen McAllister at July 24, 2005 2:05 PM

"Hey McLelland Dawg!"

Well, which is it?

"Anyone who quotes UN documents, especially those with such an obvius political spin as the anonymously written one from Geneva, is a prime-time fool."

So much for Forbes. Just another bunch of leftist apologists. Who knew?

"(Let's hear your take on the Oil-for-Food Scandal, chump.)"

Another time, perhaps.

"Perhaps you should go to lawofnations.blogspot.com/2005/06/us-admits-to-torture.html to have everything better explained."

It doesn't explain much. (Since when is a blogsite any kind of refernce, anyway?) Perhaps you might consider visiting these ultra-left sources before hastening to believe the latest military whitewash:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s962052.htm

"One of the detainees had described being taken out and tied to a post and having rubber bullets fired at them. They were being made to kneel cruciform in the sun until they collapsed.

The reports about the number of suicide attempts and the level of mental health of the detainees is evidence of the treatment that they're receiving."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/12152124.htm

Of course, while the suicide rate mounts, you can quibble about words. When is torture not torture? Why, when it's abuse and humiliation.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=50767

It's even too much for former military leaders.

But the somnambulists who voted for Bush and occasionally post to Canadian blogs will buy any excuse for degrading and inhuman treatment, so long as it's Americans doing the mistreating. And there will be Canadians (a minority, which may explain their shrillness) who continue to salute the wrong flag. Doesn't change what's going on.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 24, 2005 3:58 PM

Dr.Dawg: In 1978 I was present when at around 1530 a friend of mine, a WASP of around 30, put panties on his head in the basement bar of the Ritz-Carlton in Montreal. Should this have been reported as an instance of torture (of the staff perhaps? bouncers soon appeared) or, at the very least, a violation of someone's human rights?

Regarding the broader question of the attitudes of some Muslims living in western, and other non-Mulsim countries: They have been convinced to believe that some day the Caliphate will come and re-unite them with the Dar ul Islam. Whilst living in the Dar ul Harb one gets along but does not relinquish the expectation, some time, of the Caliphate.

Remember what I am sure drives bin Laden and the Jihadis. After Mohammed's death in 632 the Muslim Arabs, hitherto a small, backwater people, conquered about one-third of the civilised world in 100 years. An astounding achievement for which I have seen no credible explanation.

Why should not, in that context, bin Laden et al. expect to repeat the success?

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 24, 2005 8:59 PM

Note: The friend mentioned above was male. And the panties were crotchless. Two ladies were also at our table.

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at July 24, 2005 10:20 PM

Hey Dawgballs, you can quote all the crap you want, but it all boils down to this ... it's a Leftist contrived non-scandal designed to weaken the United States. You are part of the disease that OBL exploits. Get yourself a brain that isn't on a leash, Bowser.

Posted by: Jeff in Pullman, WA at July 25, 2005 11:54 AM

Hey, Jeffie:

Send the Forbes staff to Gitmo! And the former US military leaders who spoke out against abuse. Don't blame me for their views or, for that matter,your pitiful inadequacy to argue a point with reason.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 25, 2005 1:39 PM

Doggie,

There is no reasoning with people like you. Your mindset is cementlike. As every day passes you only become more and more of a pitiful anachronism, a tawdry emblem of a miserably failed ideology.

It's amazing that you're obsessed with bogus or inflated UN foolishness, designed solely to throw the heat off of the Oil-for-Food travesty and feed you Anti-American Cultists, while the Canadian kleptocrats (your crooks in Ottawa) destroy your own country. So, tell me again about how reasonable you are.

Posted by: Jeff in Pullman, WA at July 25, 2005 2:22 PM

"So, tell me again about how reasonable you are."

Sure, Jeff. I quote sources. You hurl invective. Case closed.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 25, 2005 2:24 PM

Dawgbrain,

I gave you a source several posts ago, so, apparently, you'll read only the polemics that puff you up. You are not a reasonable person, but are, loathsomely, a petty idealogue. Take your cheap Secular Religion piety and shove it. It doesn't work anymore. With that, anymore "discussion" with a deluded fool such as you is deemed a waste of time. Go on your way, lemming, you've won nothing but contempt.

Posted by: Jeff in Pullman, WA at July 25, 2005 3:12 PM

You provided a blogsite as an authority. I provided legitimate references, from sources that should be agreeable even to finicky right-wingers.

But thank you for proving, in your last post,how reasonable you are. Try bottled water.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at July 25, 2005 3:34 PM

http://tinyurl.com/8m36l

"The Justice Department blocked efforts by its prosecutors in Seattle in 2002 to bring criminal charges against Haroon Aswat, according to federal law-enforcement officials who were involved in the case.

British authorities suspect Aswat of taking part in the July 7 London bombings, which killed 56 and prompted an intense worldwide manhunt for him."

Damn that leftist John Ashcroft!

Posted by: A Hermit at July 27, 2005 4:07 PM

http://tinyurl.com/8m36l

The Justice Department blocked efforts by its prosecutors in Seattle in 2002 to bring criminal charges against Haroon Aswat, according to federal law-enforcement officials who were involved in the case.

British authorities suspect Aswat of taking part in the July 7 London bombings, which killed 56 and prompted an intense worldwide manhunt for him.

DAMN that leftist John Ashcroft!!!!

Posted by: A Hermit at July 27, 2005 5:08 PM

If there was no immigration from terrorist countries there would be no problem.

Oh wait we aren't supposed to look at the real root causes.

9/11 7/7,,,,,

Posted by: drwright at July 28, 2005 10:11 AM
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