Once upon a time, I was having a shower in this Barcelona youth hostel when some diminutive dago reached in and got a good grip on my man-meat. Does this mean that he's now my wife?

Brian O'Neill - Yup, you better sue for support....... quick .. ;-)

"...the full brunt of the Vatican's displeasure"?

So when the Vatican marines come ashore to express their displeasure somewhere outside Peggy's Cove, we're supposed to ask them why they didn't stop off in Spain first?

Or were you imagining something like wholesale excommunications based on citizenship? Frankly, I wonder just what "the Vatican's displeasure" means in the world nowadays...

So now I can get a new kind of government stamp on my free association relationship with other humans, but I can't smoke a cigar at the celebration of said stamp, because I might offend some national socialism ambulance chasers?

Colour me confused.

Paul Vincent's comment above suggests broad Spanish opposition to SSM, and that this is all part of some socialist plot to force good old Catholic Spain to abandon God.

One should take that with a grain of salt. CNN reports that "polls suggest Spaniards supported gay marriage. A survey released in May by pollster Instituto Opina said 62 percent of Spaniards support the government's action on gay marriage, and 30 percent oppose it. The poll had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.". And the NYT also reports an earlier "survey last year (that) showed 70 percent of Spaniards supported legalising gay marriage".

On broader government policy, AFP reports that "polls have shown that around three-quarters of the electorate in fact support the government's liberal agenda and see the Church as out of touch with popular feeling."

So, the idea that "Spain is a very Catholic nation and has a very Catholic past. (and that) The Socialist Party wants to secularize it.." doesn't necessarily do justice to what is going on. This is what Spaniards want, even more clearly than it is what Canadians want.

Good for Spain...Gander meet goose and all of that.

Happy Canada Day!

Aren't "freedom" and "equality" ultimately mutually exclusive?

Re. the SSM thing in Spain:

What does one expect of a country that dares elect a Mr. Bean lookalike?

Happy "Canada Day" (Dominion Day) Everyone.

God Bless The Old Bitch!

BTW, Brian, sorry to hear about the weirdo in the shower. If you grabbed a woman's happy place, she could break your face and not get charged with assault, I believe. If, however, you were to break the shower guy's face for his assault on you, in Canada, you'd probably get charged with a hate crime.

Also, think about this: why is it that we have to put up with communal showers in which there is only the same sex? Some of the showerers may be gay, therefore for them it is like paradise, whereas we are forbidden to have communal showers with mixed genders? It's unfair. Perhaps someday we'll do away with the segregation of the sexes in locker rooms, showers and public lavatories. It'd be fair to straight people then.

I have heard about "gay bathhouses" (whatever the hell that is- don't gay people have bathtubs at home?!) but I wonder if straight bathhouses are legal or if there are any. There should be. Human rights, you know. Straight people shouldn't be harrassed by the state for doing the sex stuff THEY like to do. Also, why is it that people at gay parades never get bothered by police for violating the laws against public nudity, but straights at Mardi Gras are brutally arrested for doing less than the gays?

Also a matter of the Charter: if it is explicitly forbidden in the Charter to discriminate against people on the basis of sex, why are women forbidden to have exposed nipples in public? Men show nip all the damn time and nobody cares. But take off the top, and the woman will be arrested and charged! Who's going to take that issue to the Tribunal, the Commission and the Supreme Court? Why is it that only certain favored-by-the-left groups get all the help but regular people like straights and women and men are totally forgotten and doomed to suffer from state-sanctioned discrimination?

Where are the human rights of us straight people? Who is standing up for us?

Re: "if it is explicitly forbidden in the Charter to discriminate against people on the basis of sex, "

It isn't forbidden.

What the Charter says is that the GOVERNMENT has the exclusive power to determine what discrimination is acceptable and which is not.

That's why the boy scouts are now illegal in Canada (by court order - now just "bisexual" "Scouts") but Girl Guides is leagal.

That's why we have exclusively female sports teams, but exclusively male teams are illegal.

That's why "dating" services/websites/etc are free for women, but men can be charged.

Etc etc etc

-------------------------------

Ps. That was just Spaniards being themselves...

10 Ways to Celebrate Diversity on CANADA DAY:

1) Free Canayjin citizenship for everyone in China

2) Demand that the Senate immediately ratify C-38

3) Declare war on America

4) Honourary citizenship for Robert Mugabe

5) Appoint Karla Teale-Homolka to the Supreme Court

6) Invite Svend Robinson for a sleepover with your son

7) Forgive all debts for all Canayjins

8) Demonstrate f*#ch$ng in an elementary school Social Sciences class

9) Feed one of your limbs to a bear

10) Kill yourself by watching only Canayjin TV shows

Oh Yeahhh Spain....when can we expect to see your bull fighters in drag?

Pffffftttt whay is it always the weak and stupid nations in their declining stage that fall for this homo theocracy?

Well, I love Spain - a great place to visit.

But it's a country going nowhere fast.

whoever it was that was quoting polls, um, quoting polls as an argument? give me strength.

Human rights.

Why doesn't everyone get that SSM is not a right's issue? Marriage, in and of itself, IS exclusive. Now we've opened the door to many, many atrocities. Why not allow an adult to marry a child ... or a sibling, or 5 different people at the same time??? Is this not our 'right' to, if we so choose to further degrade our nation?? Well ... perhaps now in the social and morally bankrupt state of Canada, we will have these options.

Where can I go to renounce my citizenship???

Marriage is Sui Generis.

Help restore democracy to Canada: Repeal c-38

Perhaps this same sex ruling just arrived in the nick of time for the men of Spain.

If the following comes to pass, marrying your buddy might be the only way of escaping household responsibilities.

"Spanish law to rule out sexism.
SPANISH men will be required to scrub toilets and change nappies as often as their harried wives under revolutionary reforms aimed at shattering the traditionally macho Latin nation's patriarchal division of labour in the home........"

Read more

"Right" you are, Hershey. Marriage is not a right. If it were, I would have found it in the Charter, a copy of which I have, framed, on my wall. Most people assume marriage and sexual orientation are in the Charter because the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy keeps saying they are. But how many people can even be bothered to READ the Charter? It's much easier to toe the popular line than to see for oneself if something is indeed true or not.

My earlier post above was meant to be ironic as well as point out that the left really doesn't believe in, let alone understand the concept of, equality.

You're not wrong about the other forms of relationships. There is indeed a danger of things like polygamy becoming legal. Libranos and lefties claim that's silly and will never happen. But I remember that they only a few years ago swore it (SSM) wouldn't happen- that they wouldn't push for that. I even remember Svend Robinson saying on a TV interview a few years ago there wouldn't be any push for SSM. It's on an interview tape somewhere. Wish I could remember what network- Probably CBC Newsworld/Politics.

Also, didn't the SCOC rule in 1995 against SSM? I read somewhere not long ago that it did. If true, then obviously the lower courts consequently overruled the SCOC! As did the Libranos, w/o the Notwithstanding Clause, though they not long ago rejected SSM in a free vote and never said anything about human rights or the Charter back then. What the hell is going on?!

And why do I have a sudden craving for bananas? Ah, 'cause that's the kind of republic we've become! Good God... I hope the Libestapo Stormtroopers don't come for me now!

BTW, it's still premature to renounce your citizenship, because there is still hope. The Conservatives provide the hope of a better gov't and better Canada. I have had this hope ever since I first heard of the Reform Party of Canada and Preston Manning's vision of the New Canada. We need you to retain citizenship and vote Conservative. Let's secure Stephen Harper's portrait's spot on the wall in Parliament.

Open Letter to the Wetaskiwin Whirlers
Dear Whirlers,

I know that recent developments in Ottawa have caused much consternation.
But you know, to survive as country folk we have always been able to find a silver lining in every cloud (and vice versa, to be honest).

It wouldn't hurt us any to learn a lesson here.

For too long we have been living as second class citizens. Many in the community are repelled by what we do.
Tough!
It's what we enjoy. We ain't hurting anybody else. We don't force anyone to spectate and we are all consenting adults. I know some of you encourage your kids and other youngsters to join us but nobody twists arms.

Most of you want to live the quiet life and keep private things private. Others of you think more parades are the answer. Personally I don't see how frolicking and cavorting down main street in our gaudy costumes and string ties is going to increase public acceptance of our lifestyle.

There are a few of you out their that by keeping things hush hush is taking it's toll. I won't name names but I know of several couples that have been ordered by their teenage children to never show themselves to the neighbours. These poor people are forced to put there outfits on in the house, get into their vehicles, inside the garage with the door down and then precede slouched down in their vehicles, to our gatherings.
It must be hard on their self esteem, to be treated this way by their own kin.

So what are we to do?

I am asking that all of us write the Federal Minister of Definitions (sorry, can somebody help out with a name and address?) to have our activities renamed "Ballet" maybe even "Royal Ballet".

"Square Dancing" would be stricken from the official list of acceptable words for use in Canada. Henceforth any one using this expression could be held liable in a Human Rights tribunal.
This redefining might cause some confusion to peoples previous understanding of the word, ballet. But this type of a " hug and a handshake" from the Prime Minister might be just the medicine that's needed to empower the struggling members of our community.

Yours truly,
Wayne Shewchuck

(Soft Drinks and Snacks Coordinator)
Wetaskiwin Whirlers

Wayne in Wetaskiwin, I enjoyed your satire. I, though living in the city, do believe that country folk are a discriminated-against, misunderstood minority. Urban leftists seem proud of their prejudice against rural dwellers. The irony wrt SSM comes through well.

Hey, I like the idea of a country pride parade. THAT I'd go see! However, it'd probably be disallowed by the local gov't. as being too silly to even consider. Hell, what if children were to see the horses' and bulls' salamis at maximum extension? Can't have that, the mayor'd reason.

But don't despair! For someday, that parade will be illegitimately forced on the people whether they like it or not and you'll be the winners! Hell, you'll even excite more and more people enough to come join your lifestyle. Why not? Other people are already there and it looks like fun! Hopefully, eventually, everyone will live in the country and every day would be happy and gay! You're here and you Square Dance, so everybody better get used to it!

Stephen McAllister,
Thanks for the kind words. Especially if you are related to Billy Joe MacAllister who flung himself off the Tallahatchie Bridge years ago.
From my take of the fictional account ( or documentary as Michael Moore likes to call them) I believe that Billy Joe's actions were due to a run in with an older man while intoxicated, rather than any angst caused by personal conflict. Wether male or female this type of goings on could have caused feelings of bewildered shame in a youth or even older, for that matter.
And I would never make light of a persons despair.
That's their personal business and best kept to themselves, like other private things.

No relation to that Billy Joe guy. Once, though, knew a guy named Billy Bob Jim who lived in the country. Honest truth! However, we only called him "Bill".

Can anyone suggest to me any reason that polygamous marriage, adult-child marriage, and man-dog marriage should remain illegal in Canada? ... any reason, that is, that was not used and declared invalid by the Supreme Court and the government in the arguments against same sex marriage?

For instance: I posed this question to Debbye at Being American in T.o.; her first response was that polygamy would remain illegal because marriage is between two people. This doesn't cut it, as prior to C-38, marriage was defined as being between two people of opposite gender. Since the gender restriction has been lifted, the two-people restriction is equally invalid, as both were based upon the definition of marriage; as we have seen, such a definition is quite malleable.

Since marriage has now been declared a "right", does this mean that the government may no longer grant divorces? Obviously, to do so would violate the "right" to marriage.

This has not been thought through well at all.

Right, Ed. Those insane lefty imbeciles never think anything through at all, it seems.

Well Stephen, imbeciles or not, these arguments must be made. Otherwise, under the principle of "equality under the law", then C38 must be amended to include polygamy, pedophilia, and bestiality.

Please, anyone who can make these arguments (and note that in order to be valid, the arguments cannot have been used in the supreme court and the government in the deliberations over same sex marriage, as they have decreed such arguments invalid), step forward. I would be most interested to hear these arguments.

For the fools who compare gays to pedophilia, polygamy and bestality, please go south of the border now. Better yet go to Iraq to fight for Bush.

The usual no comment from Mama-San. Go away if you won't agree with me. When they can no longer defend against the absurd notion of homosexuals marrying then they start to fling insults and tell us to get lost. Move , go south, go anywhere so we can have our little perverted country to ourselves.

Mama-san,

Of course they are comparable. These things are all illegal, as was homosexual marriage until only a few days ago. Unless there are compelling arguments against, then C38 must be amended to include them, under the "equality under the law" principle.

By the way, Mama-san, "they are not the same thing" is an invalid argument; that argument was used as an argument against same-sex marriage, and hence declared invalid by the Supreme Court and the government.

Over at AitGWN J. Bielecki brought up the only valid argument I have seen so far against pedophilia and bestiality: that at least one of the participants is incapable of legally giving consent.

So far, there have been no valid arguments against including polygamy as a legal form of marriage.

J. Bielecki brought up a further possibility: that the restriction against "intrafamily" relations is now also invalid.

I will be posting something on my blog soon to cover this issue. Thanks to all who have participated in the discussion.