June 28, 2005

Let's All Wake Up, Con't

Revisiting this post from the weekend, this comment from "Joe" merits attention.

Re acid rain in China. As a resident of Guangzhou, I can confirm that it stings like crazy if it gets into your eyes. The Southern China landscape now is nothing more than a hot, hazy, pollution-filled, area full of factories and brothels.

Re the nationalist side of China, I've witnessed the rise of this during the last 12 years and, yes, it has already surpassed the nationalism of what we read was evident in pre-war Germany, Italy, Japan etc.

The "us" and "them" mentality(i.e. we Chinese and you foreigners led by America) is staggering in China. And the expectation that China will directly challenge the US one day isn't debated over here, it's seen as an inevitable fact.

The govt here encourages a victim mentality complex and a sense of aggrieved history among the population (as in the recent anti-Japan riots) as well as teching all schoolchildren that The Middle Kingdom ruled the world for millenia before, several hundred years ago, the industrialised west stole it's technology like gunpowder etc. and usurped China's rightful place in the world. China incurred a HUGE loss of face and now China has started on the road to re-claiming it's rightful place in the world. Conflict with the US/allies is inevitable and welcome as it will be the herald of a new era of unrivalled dominance for China.

Also, don't expect China to start lobbing missiles anytime soon, it's not her style. Sun Zu's 36 Directives on waging war are almost all concerned with deception (1 spy is worth more than 1,000 soldiers, sometimes a war can be lost before it has even began etc.). Therefore, China will work behind the scenes, quietly, not attracting attention, undermining economies, cyber-war, propaganda war, building spy networks and maybe 10,000 other things that none of us here could even guess at.

I'm not saying we should all run to our nuclear shelters just yet but if anyone believes all that talk about China's peaceful rise and how China will never seek hegemony or use aggression against others, then they are a fool.

Thanks to Simon at for linking this article in his Daily Linklets.

Posted by Kate at June 28, 2005 8:11 AM

Post-Communist China from Winds of Change.NET
If the Chinese Communist Party falls, what comes next? Simon World asks. We have a few places to go for answers. [Read More]

Tracked on June 29, 2005 1:51 PM

China's Growing Nationalist Movement from Winds of Change.NET
in "Neo-Fascism and China's Future", I sketched one dark scenario for China's future. York's article about China's growing nationalist movement describes an almost exact match - read it, then think about the questions posed here. [Read More]

Tracked on June 29, 2005 1:59 PM

Neo-Fascism & China's Future from Winds of Change.NET
"The Enemy of My Enemy Is My Enemy" brings China's potential neo-fascist future into sharp relief. It's not China's only possible future, but it's cause for concern. [Read More]

Tracked on June 29, 2005 2:11 PM


WSJ: Mao and Us (Book review: "Mao: The Untold Story" by Jung Chang, author of "Wild Swans")
Posted by OESY
On 06/28/2005 5:19:44 AM PDT 1 reply 4+ views

Wall Street Journal ^ | June 28, 2005 | Editorial (full text)
Mao Tse-tung may be dead, but the survival of his legacy remains important to the "pragmatic" rulers of China. This presumably is why they banned the June issue of our sister publication, The Far Eastern Economic Review, for carrying a review of a book that reveals the extent of Mao's crimes during his 1949-1976 rule. "Mao: The Untold Story" is by Jung Chang, author of "Wild Swans," the 1990s best seller that introduced readers world-wide to the horrors of Mao's 1967-76 Cultural Revolution. Her new book is co-written with her husband, the historian Jon Halliday. It was reviewed for the..

Posted by: maz2 at June 28, 2005 8:27 AM

Just to put my original post into some perspective, I should add that, while nationalism in China has been on the rise for years now, it is mainly because nationalism has replaced failed socialism in China.

The CCP is desperate to legitimize its rule and shore up social and national unity in what is a very culturally, socially and ethnically diverse "civilization".

It's no accident that while the Patriotic Education inflicted on Chinese children increasingly produces a docile, xenophobic and nationalistic population utterly incapable of independent thought, the corrupt communist cadres nearly always send their kids off to the west to study. (I've yet to meet or hear of a single govt official that DIDN'T send their kids to school in the west---Canada and Australia are the No 1 choice).

The Chinese economy has more problems than successes and is increasingly seen to be unsustainable in the long term. In addition, China is already way overdue a serious economic downturn.

They have achieved much in the last few decades, certainly, but despite the widely reported "successes" of the Chinese super-economy, China basically started from zero 30 years ago therefore it is still playing catch-up in even the most basic areas of the economy.

Despite the skyscrapers and the arrogance, China remains a desperately poor country.

What I'm saying is, China cannot possibly challenge the west anytime soon. It also dare not launch any attack on Taiwan for the same reasons.

However, despite the fact that tens of millions of rural children (particularly girls) do not even finish elementary school because their parents can't afford the approx US$50 per year fee, the CCP still prioritizes military expenditure as well as multi-million dollar purchases of Russian military hardware and technology (when it can't steal it from North America).

Also, anyone who underestimates China is a fool. Their sense of aggrieved history and revenge is unique in our world and, even though I think that China cannot challenge the west within our lifetimes, China's single-mindedness and determination to right historical wrongs as well as their unambiguous hatred and envy of the west, particularly America, should give us all pause.

The recent govt-authorised anti-Japan riots were a signal of newfound confidence and ambition within China. This will only increase.

Posted by: Joe at June 28, 2005 11:51 AM

Joe, thank you for posting this and also for the followup comment. Very good information for all of us to have. Thanks Kate, for the original post.

My only concern about China is the fact that, as you say, it if very poor. The people are poor and the country are poor. And there are a hell of a lot of them. Their very number poses a serious threat to the corrupt communist rulers of this extremely poor country. This is the main reason for their "numbing down" the population in my opinion. It has worked for centuries in the Middle East, and is today. It has made suicide bombers out of otherwise beautiful people. My concern is that the same thing will happen in China. And the target will be Taiwan or Japan.

After the fall of Saipan in July, 1944, Admiral Takijiro Onishi, commander of 1st Air Fleet in the Philippines, created the Special Attack Groups of suicide dive-bombing pilots known as kamikazes. Young men were inspired to volunteer and die for their country. Pilots were trained in just over a week to fly their modified Mitsubishi A6M fighters.

How is this different from what has happened in the Middle East over the last number of years? What will America do if millions of little Chinese suicide bombers start heading for some of their neighbors? Worse yet boarding a plane for America. Suicide bombers are really no different than kamakaze pilots.

China is the single largest supporter of international terrorism. We will rue the day we decided to do business with these people.

By the way, I have a Chinese friend and have had Chinese neighbors. You could not have better neighbors. It's not the people, it's the leaders. And there are a lot of leaders around the world that need to be eliminated. Ridding the world of Saddam Hussein was a good thing, as Martha would say. The world is full of targets like that. But there's a much easier way to get rid of them than invading the whole country. I support the war in Iraq, and I support America, but there is a better way. And it does not include doing business with these people.

Posted by: John Crittenden at June 28, 2005 12:54 PM

I saw the movie "Hero" the other day. It, roughly, is about China's founding, and there is so much patriotism in there I was surprised that the U.S. liberal media wasn't vomiting. The movie is very good, but the underlying nationalistic message, coupled with the state of China today, should give everyone pause.
If the left finds the patriotism in the U.S. disquieting, I invite them to criticize the Chinese.

Posted by: Half Canadian at June 28, 2005 2:38 PM

tis the reason why I spend hours shopping too find anything not made in china.

John Crittenden are you neighbours among the 1000 chinese spies in Canada?

We defy the tower of babel at our risk.

Posted by: GamilGharbi at June 28, 2005 3:33 PM

Nope. That was a few years ago. Today I live a lonely life and prefer it that way. I used to occasionally see a Chinese guy, nice fellow, who always smiled at me when we met. Every time I saw him he smiled at me, as if he knew something I didn't. I told him one day, when the occassion arose and with a smile on *my* face, that I felt uneasy when someone who didn't know me always smiled at me. He nodded in agreement, smiling all the while. Turns out he couldn't speak english. Silly me.

A couple years later I found myself buying veggies from this guy. And he was still smiling. He had bought a small market garden and was selling local produce, some of it grown my friends of mine.

Posted by: John Crittenden at June 28, 2005 4:47 PM

I should have mentioned that the Chinese guy I referred to above who was always smiling could apparently never return to China. I was told that he had demonstrated too many times against the ruling thugs and was sure he would be imprisoned and tortured if he returned. He was probably smiling because he was so happy to be in Canada where he was free to say anything he wanted.

Things have changed a bit in Canada since then. That was 20 or so years ago. Today it pays to be careful what you say. In Quebec they have the language police and in Ottawa they have the Librano lawyers to swat you if you step too far out of line and say something they think you shouldn't.

Posted by: John Crittenden at June 28, 2005 5:01 PM

Half Canadian, absolutely, I didn't know the true face of nationalism (and with it the inevitable superiority complex and xenophobia) until I came to China. Western levels of nationalism a but a mere fraction of what exists in China.

You can the say about racism as well. It was funny for me (as a Brit) to read in the UK newspapers how rascist a country Britian was supposed to be and then come to China where a black person can't go outside without being called a gorilla (and I've known enough to know it for true).

Re Hero, the film was made to coincide with the 'handover' of Hong Kong to China 97 and, yes, it's sickeningly nationalistic. It's also a good example of the incredibly high and acceptable levels of nationalism here.

Posted by: Joe at June 28, 2005 6:30 PM

Two or three Emails from China interests have asked me to get in touch to earn profits as a trade agent for them.

I will not tell you what to do. My choice, as with almost all unsolicited Email is to delete it and not even click the *send no more* link.

I personally like the patient and steady nature of Chinese and Canadian/Chinese people I meet and do business with here.

Very nice folks to me, and almost never in trouble with the law.

Contacts from China however are a different matter. Company relationships with people you know in China are OK, but giving up any of your personal privacy to *cold call* Email contacts may not be wise.

If you have found any *Offers from China* in your in-box, I would be interested in their style or nature. One can't tell if they are real or Phishing.

Recent example; China Metallurgical

Mrs. Lui Ghen Woo, Crafts and Art Works.

please send [1] Full Name
[2] Phone No. / Fax
[3] Full Address- (Not P.O. Box)

No. 3 is curious. Normally a business P.O. Box is fine. Why a special interest in the street address?

Naw. I don't provide any info on this basis. 73s TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar at June 29, 2005 2:57 AM