This is interesting . . . from Quotulatiousness
According to Bourque, former PC cabinet minister Jim Flaherty is rumoured to be making a move for Stephen Harper's job: Bourque has learned that longtime Ontario Cabinet Minister and two-time provincial leadership contender Jim Flaherty may well be pos... [Read More]

Tracked on June 14, 2005 5:55 PM

Jeff:
Jim Flaherty is a member of Parliment in Ontario -a P.C. member. He seems to be a good man and a conservative. He was a member of the Mike Harris gov't and strong supporter of the Common Sense Revolution. As to the legitamacy of thr report - I have no idea, I can say that he did run for the leadership of the Ontario Tories and came in 2nd to John Tory.

Two things Flaherty has going against him: 1. he's virtually unknown outside Ontario; 2. he's well known in Ontario. The CBC, Globe and Star probably have hatchet jobs at the ready for Mr. him.

He's from Oztario? That would explain it, then. I have 'Hysterical Oztario Deafness' -- whenever anything involving that province is mentioned my ears just slam shut.

*clank*

I'm sorry, did you just say something?

The Gormless Enquiry is still asking GAGliano for the files in his basement!?! Alfie's lawyer sez: "Nothing to see there, Folks- his dog pooped on them." Haw!

Jim Flaherty,
Would be a disaster for the cpc I remember a quote in the Ontario Tory leadership race where he suggested we imprison homeless people for their own good when it gets too cold. I don't think he speaks French.

The only benefit to him making noise now is that it will make Harper seem more moderate to Ontario.

Bourque mentioned a few other people putting out feelers (or having others put out feelers for them, to be precise), including Stock Day.

Perhaps it's because (a) I'm an American, and (b) Day is just about the only MP who is consistently, passionately, and (hang on to your coffee cups) intelligently talking about the Communist Chinese threat to North America, but let's be honest, looking back on it . . .

1) Was his brief leadership tenure really that bad?

2) Wouldn't it have helped if nearly every MP wasn't reaching for his scalp (that was the impression down here)?

3) Given his rather impressive record as foreign affairs critic, if (and that's a BIG if) Harper does step aside or is "knifed," isn't he worthy of a second chance?

I will now sit back and await the smothering avalanche.

I have no problem with Day. I like his work ethic, and think he's an asset to the party. However, as he already had a failed run as leader of the CA, if he to become leader of the CPC it would be a disaster.

On the other hand, though I doubt Ontario would like him, I wouldn't mind seeing Monte take a run for the leadership someday.

2) Wouldn't it have helped if nearly every MP wasn't reaching for his scalp (that was the impression down here)?

You aren't alone in that impression. In fact, this is the precise reason why several people I know won't ever vote conservative. Now they vote NDP. (Don't throw things at the computer screen! You could damage something.)

Although, I have no specific problems with Day, I think a shake up in the leadership of the CPC will simply cause more people to not take them seriously. Course, that's just me...

Bourque began stirring the pot last week with the Rick Peterson rumour. I live in Ontario an I'd never heard that guy. Jim is a good man and not near as far right as the Ontario media and Paul Wells(who likes him by the way) would make him out to be. For the record he never said we should arrest homeless people. He said we have to stop letting them freeze to death in the street. Which they now have the right to do. I'm thinking this is misinformation and not because it's a slow news day.

Spook,

Oddly enough, on the issue that matters to me most (communist China) the 2nd-best party (behind the tories) is actually the NDP.

Strange but true.

"I remember a quote in the Ontario Tory leadership race where he suggested we imprison homeless people for their own good when it gets too cold."

AH! Now I remember him. I read the scoop law proposal and it was surprisingly astute (and compassionate) -- not at all what I expected from a right wing politician. He is advocating common sense measures that will do a lot more to get homeless people off the streets, and more importantly, back into real lives, than anything we're currently doing.

He doesn't want to imprison the homeless. He wants to give them a strong nudge towards the help they need.

That's my view as someone who has been homeless and who has ongoing struggles with mental illness.

I'm ashamed of myself for having forgotten about Mr. Flaherty. He is one of the few politicians I have ever seen attack an issue like homelessness with that kind of intelligence and moxie.

I can't see him replacing Harper, but I'd sure like it if the CPC would shine a spotlight on this guy. The CPC doesn't do a good enough job of showing off the talent on their benches.

Exiled American: Stockwell Day is kryptonite as he also has an excellent record of consorting with known holocaust deniers (Jim Keegstra). The CPC can't turf this donkey from the party fast enough, IMO.

Oh,I forgot Jim is also the federal conservative candidate in his riding. His chances of winning that seat are pretty good.

The fact is at least half of the homeless people on the streets of Toronto are mentally ill. Leaving them out there to die isn't very nice. Flaherty was trying to show some compassion, although the message came out all wrong.

Did anybody see Duceppe's press conference? He said several times, a federal election is coming and now is not the time for a leadership change. The 2nd and 3rd time he said it, I wondered whether he wasn't hinting at the CPC. He gets along well with Harper, and he knows that some Quebecers might consider the CPC in an anything-but-Liberal vote. I could be delusional. The Nat Post editorial thing morning has thrown my whole day out of whack. Stock in his wetsuit is imprinted on the Canadian psyche forever. Like him, but sorry. He had his turn.

Exiled American: Stockwell Day is kryptonite as he also has an excellent record of consorting with known holocaust deniers (Jim Keegstra).

Oh goodness! I had completely forgotten about that. I remember being mortified the first time I heard that. Amazing how some people can completely fall off their gourd on one subject. Thanks for reminding me, Sean.

(now off to do a brain scrub to get Jim Keegstra's slimy mug out of my head!)

To exiled: I live in Saskatchewan. As a right-wing nut in the hot-bed of socialism, NDP is a bad word - I don't care what their federal policies are. Canada may be living with a socialist regime for 12 years in the liberals, but here in Sask we've had NDP rule for longer than that. Trust me, it ain't pretty.

Between Bourque and Nat. Post editorial today MSM is taking conservative bloggers off message.
The National Post would be well advised to concentrate public attention to the corruption that is the current government of Canada rather than CPC non-leadership issues.
Maybe Alfonso's basement is a treasure trove of information that Canadians could digest. Gomery seems to be interested but is MSM?

Re: Jim Keegstra- this doughead also ran for the leadership of the Federal Liberals.

So I guess if you've ever been in the same room with the guy OR were the LIberals who signed his nomination forms that would be guilt by association?

Would it not be better for the bloggers not to bite when this tripe is served to you?
Remember the MSM and the Liberals want nothing more than to face a leaderless opposition come election.
Your helping spread the lie through repitition, Just an observation.

Guys,

Calm down.

Bourque is not MSM and his stock in trade (pun intended) is rabble rousing.

Jim Flaherty, nice guy that he is, would be the best news that the Liberals could hope for. It doesn't matter whether he is not as right-wing as the MSM portrays him to be. What matters is how the Liberal spin-meisters can spin it. And, trust me, they would have a field day. We'd see heds in "respected" MSM dailies the likes of "RABID RIGHT WING NUTBAR TAKES OVER TORIES" or other such nonsense.

Despite all of Stephen's flaws (and, yes, there are some, particularly his desperate need for a wider circle of advisers with more insights into Central Canada), the CPC cannot afford to dump the leader before an election. Duceppe has it right. The CPC needs to stay the course.

Why doesn't everybody take a valium and take a hard look at the CPC prospects for the coming election. Most of the existing seats are solid and there are about 10 additional CPC seats in Ontario that are definitely within reach. There are even 2-3 seats in Quebec (e.g. Pontiac)within reach for the CPC. Yes, there are about 10-12 seats that are vulnerable (largely to the NDP)in Ontario, BC and Sask. This will be offset by the fact that the Liberals will lose about 10 seats in Quebec. This means that the CPC can probably count on about 105-110 seats even as we speak and the Liberals can expect no more that 120 seats.

In other words, between now and the election, the CPC has to turn around about 8-10 seats in order to form government. This assumes the Bloc will support whichever party gains the largest number of seats. It's not a slam dunk, but it's also not impossible.

Feelin' better now?

"Remember the MSM and the Liberals want nothing more than to face a leaderless opposition come election."

Maybe, but that doesn't mean you hold your tongue on certain things "for the team."

Trust me, down here, the conservative movement was screaming at President Bush's drunken-sailor record on government spending right up to and through election day. Didn't slow him down.

I notice also that Bourque shows the latest SES poll for Ontario at Lib 41, Con 35, NDP 21. That's an improvement is it not?

"So I guess if you've ever been in the same room with the guy OR were the LIberals who signed his nomination forms that would be guilt by association?"

Guilt by REPEATED association. I certainly wouldn't take my car in to Keegstra for regular service (as Day did after Keegstrat's trial). The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, either. Ever read Stock Senior's letters to Doug Christie (Keegstra's lawyer) on the old Western Canada Concept party Web site? Blech.

A thousand ill-timed press releases by Randy White and Cheryl Gallant cannot befoul the CPC as Stock does with his mere presence.

"Would it not be better for the bloggers not to bite when this tripe is served to you?"

Blogs are discussions. The possiblity of a leadership change in the CPC is worth discussing. Personally, I'd still like to see Harper stay in charge, I just think that he needs better (and more capable) support from the other members of his party.

BKS,

That was for the provincial election, not the federal.

Sean,

Can you be a little more specific? My attempt to troll through the web for more info on the subject left me with something on car repair and a lot of sites I'd rather never, ever, see again.

Two Cents,

Actually, I think it's even better than you have it. All that is required, in reality, is for the Bloc and the Tories to add up to 155 after election day. They can govern the country together. The Bloc would be under tremendous pressure from their voters to turf the Grits (even from the hard-line seps, who will probably assume S.H. would anger enough q-ers into voting Yes - they'd be wrong, but that's another story).

"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, either."

So does that mean I have to grow my hair shoulder length, get an earring, and reverse my positions on abortion, gun control, taxes, Vietnam, and Iraq?

Sorry, Sean, apples can far MUCH farther from the tree than you give them credit for.

The SES poll may also just be showing that the previous Decima one was an outlier.

Oh, and one more thing about the MSM and how they treat Conservative leaders or would-be leaders.

The best way to truly deflate the effectiveness of the "scary hidden agenda" routine is to have a scary (but reasonable) open agenda.

I.e., if the Tories were serious, they'd call for legalization of private health care (if that means repeal the CHA, then do it).

Instead of letting Ujjal et al scream "THEY'LL KILL MEDICARE" with denials, dare them to defend a system that kills its own patients for an ideal so insane no other democratic nation besides the equally deranged UK would tolerate.

Then (keeping in mind private care's highest support is in Quebec), if you feel like a little demagoguery (which I could never resist myself, I'm ashamed to admit), every time Ujjal, PM, or an MSM columnist opens his mouth on the subject, accuse ALL OF THEM of driving Quebecers to separatism to save their kids.

Give em a taste of their own poison for a change.

Right on, Joe Molnar and Durward .

Why are so many of participants at a Conservative site like SDA so easily be put off the scent of the stinking Libranos, when MSM throws them a bone to chew on?

The turmoil caused by a change of leadership in the CPC would be the best chance for the Libranos to be returned with a majority.

If Conservative- blogophiles can so easily be lead by the nose, what chance does the average Truedopian have?

Exiled,

Your are right. It is probably better than I laid out. The NDP could well bleed off an additional 10-15 seats from the Libs, which would leave the Libs with only 100-105 seats, whilke the CPC has 115-120. That's why I believe that the CPC still has the best chance of any party of becoming government following the next election.

On the other hand, I don't agree with you about a Bloc/ CPC coalition, in which the Bloc would support the CPC even if the CPC gets fewer seats than the Liberals. Under Parliamentary tradition, the party with the largest number of seats gets the first chance to form a government. I don't think the CPC would be ready to accept Bloc support unless it wins the largest number of seats, unless the Liberals were given the first opportunity to form a government and were defeated. To accept Bloc support without giving the Liberals first shot in such a scenario would only add credence to the lie currently being spread by Liberal spin-meisters that the CPC and Bloc are in an informal coalition. This is not true and the CPC needs to distance itself from such ideas.

I made a few calls. Here is what I was told. There was no swish gathering. Nicky Eaton isn't even in the country. So I'm thinking the only people who want Harper gone are the Liberals.

Cal,

If my above advice were followed, it wouldn't matter who the leader was (and personally, I'm fine with Harper).

I saw this back in 1998. Just one week before the election, the GOP, convinced it could run on Monica, Monica, Monica, spent money like water, clouded all the differences between the parties, and ran as the ethical party.

Result? The right-wingers, seeing all their issues vanish, didn't turn out, and the Democrats gained seats in Congress (a first for a "mid-term" election in 64 years).

I'm guessing the same thing is happening in the polls. Right-wingers throughout Canada are opting out, and since the geniuses who run Canada's polls airbursh the undecided out of their poll #'s, it looks like a Tory drop AND a liberal surge, when odds are it's just Tory voters streaming to the UND column.

Stick your neck out on issues. Let the powers that be beat you up on them. If the blogs are any indication, no one believes MSM anyway.

Harper? Day? McKay? Flaherty? IS this the best that the CPC can do? The Cons are done like dinner.

C'mon people. Bourque is a moron. I've seen him on CBC panel discussions and he's as much a liberal spin-meister as Allan Gregg. Not impartial, just spinning liberal talking points.

Harper is the man. He has the whole apparatus (Lie-bribe-alls, organized crime groups, MSM, Power Corp, and the thousands of special interest groups sucking off the federal teats) scared shitless. He's not a Quebec lawyer. No known ties or obligations to either Power Corp or the mob. He might be our only hope for restoring integrity and accountability to our federal government. And it would be foolish to sacrifice him to the whims of media spin. (and don't for a minute think that that other billion dollar advertising slush fund -the one that nobody seems to be in a hurry to investigate isn't what is keeping the MSM in line)

And a part of me is hoping that he's the most astute political strategist this country has ever produced and that they surprise everybody tommorrow and bring this corrupt government down!

aa - Martin, Brison, Stronach, Volpe, Valeri, Goodale, McLellan, Dryden, Dosanjj, Graham....????

Is that the best the Liberals can do? We are in BIG doggy do-do in Canada thanks to giving us your Best??

I would say they are all past their best before expiry dates. Time to purge the shelves of the old mould for some honesty and fresh air.

"If Conservative- blogophiles can so easily be lead by the nose, what chance does the average Truedopian have?"

SDA *is* a Conservative site, and I have *never* seen Kate's support for Harper waver.

I, on the other hand, am NOT Conservative for the time being. I currently favour the Green Party. It's worth pointing out that I voted CPC in the last election and could in a future election if the right conditions came about.

I'm not a 'brand loyal' consumer. I shop around for the best taste and best deal at the time. Right now the CPC leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Please don't impose my views on Kate as they are not her views. Besides, she will probably show up sometime late this evening and resume kicking Librano ass and things will be back to normal.

The exiled American,

Not being very knowledgeable about the Congressional elections of 98, I'm tying to work my way though the nuance.,

Are you saying that because of Monica's hard work, Bill was able to make enough of, you know what, to float the Democratic boat to victory, despite all the torpedoes that the Republican launched?

Or are you saying that depending on negative campaigning against a the character of a leader, doesn't always work?

I agree that the conservatives need to put their platform out there. The big problem is to get it out there without the MSM filter.

My point was that, Harper's leadership should not be questioned unless you truly believe that he is unelectable and someone else definitely is.

The Decima was a push pull on do you believe Grewal or the other two. Unless they asked the party preference first they deliberately biased their results. And they aren't going to tell you. One way or another Grewal is going to be a blip outside Vancouver even if he gets a clean bill from the ethics commissioner and keeps his nomination.

Sean,
You are unusual.
But just like many of the rest of us visiting SDA.
We all have a strong interest in politics and current events.

But after 30 or 40 years of being swaddled in cotton wool, most Truedopians are content to leave the governing to others. They believe that if there were any major problems, Mr Mansbridge or Mr. Robertson, would have brought it to their attention.

Thanks for filling in.

If only the like minded visited here, it would become a delusional wasteland. Sort of like Canadian MSM..

Happy Daze,

Jim Keegstra never ran for the leadership of the
Liberal party (though he did try for the Social Credit). Maybe you confuse him with Ernst Zundel,
who ran in 1968 for the Liberal leadership but never made it to the convention.

Stockwell Day and Jim Keegstra?

Sorry, that one died a long time ago - even the MSM couldn't sustain it. The slime job by Gord Laird attempted to paint Stock as a closet anti-semite, something that can't really stick to him.

If we follow the logic of this association, then we must conclude that all of Keegstra's customers are white supremacists.

Perhaps Laird should have visited a the Pentecostal church service in Bently and seen first-hand the way they lift up their hands in a "double Nazi salute". That would be a dead give-away!

"If we follow the logic of this association, then we must conclude that all of Keegstra's customers are white supremacists."

I know that I sure as hell wouldn't take my car there to be serviced. And I would tell him in no uncertain terms where he could take his business if he ever walked into my photo studio. Keegstra has a right to his beliefs. I have a right to tell Keegstra where to shove his beliefs. I also have the right to be suspicious of those who are surprisingly tolerant of Keegstra.

"The slime job by Gord Laird attempted to paint Stock as a closet anti-semite, something that can't really stick to him."

It stuck as far as I'm concerned. The ACE curriculum. Stock's chumminess with Keegstra. Stock Sr.'s chumminess with Christie.

"Perhaps Laird should have visited a the Pentecostal church service in Bently and seen first-hand the way they lift up their hands in a "double Nazi salute". That would be a dead give-away!"

I've lived in Alberta my entire life and I've been to Bentley enough times to know that the town has a 'unique character'. It seems to me that Caroline gets a bad rap for racism -- never had a problem there. Bentley, though... *cough cough cough*

Sean,

(Mike wrote) "The slime job by Gord Laird attempted to paint Stock as a closet anti-semite, something that can't really stick to him."

(Sean wrote) It stuck as far as I'm concerned. The ACE curriculum. Stock's chumminess with Keegstra. Stock Sr.'s chumminess with Christie.

(Mike again) That's it??? That is your proof that Stock is an antisemite? The lazy man's proof can link anyone with anything. Dig up a quote from Stock. Search the Hansard, sound bite, interview, press release, go to Penticton and ask him for his opinion yourself.
You also suggest that he is tainted with the beliefs of his father's friends. How many degrees of separation do you need?

I know Stockwell and his wife Val personally - if his religion contributed to him being an honest guy with a wicked sense of humour, a big heart, strong family values and a burning desire to make a difference for fellow Canadians then how can that be scary?

Those are traits this country used to DEMAND from our leaders - now they sneer at us. How low can we really go?

HappyDaze, did you see Keith Boag's special on the Christian movement tonight on CBC? Very good piece, but telling in that he couldn't let his feature go without asking the leader of this proactive movement whether he might not be ruining the Tories chances with his campaign. It's on the National, starts about 35 or 40 minutes past the hour (not sure where you are). But this guy is galvanizing folks to defeat SSM; in the process, he's mustering Tory supporters. My point is, he pretty much said what you've just said: we weren't scary 5 or 10 years ago. Why are we scary now?

Good Grief!
There will be an election sooner or later.
Polls notwithstanding, suspect as they are, the Conservative party WILL form the next government.
The intrigue, crime, corruption, wastefulness. Refusal to accept reality in: 4 non-confidence votes lost and refusal to step down. Spending money like it was water to make alliances and keep power. Intrigue on tape. Obvious tampering caught on tape. Refusal to take appropriate action. Gerrymandering the Gomery process.
The libs paint a very ugly picture.
It won't be pretty when the carnage is observed after the next election.
I can't see any other scenario playing out.
Harper and the Conservatives are inexorably marching, slowly but surely to forming government. One step at a time perhaps , but that is the direction this thing is going and all the rest is only flotsam and jetsam.