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April 1, 2005

Canadian Election On Horizon?

The testimony at the ongoing Gomery Inquiry into the Sponsorship program, in which money was poured into Liberal friendly advertising agencies and possibly rerouted back to party coffers has reportedly heard "devastating testimony" over the past two days.

What it is, no one can say - the testimony is under a court ordered publication ban, on the premise that releasing it could prejudice other criminal trials. But it seems to be damning enough that both the governing Liberals and opposition parties are moving into high gear in preparation for the possible fall of the minority government.

Update - More on the Jean Brault, (former head of the Groupaction) testimony publication ban.

Bloggers are beginning to dig, but it's uncertain what they can publish in Canada, should they uncover the details. (Perhaps its time to brush up on our "poetry" skills.)

I don't believe the bans extend to foreign sites, though...

Other sites blogging this story:

  • Shotgun
  • Political Staples has continuous updates.
  • Cyber Menace
  • Solberg thinks it's so damning the Liberals may try to get an election in before the public learns the details.
  • WITTW
  • Angry In The GWN has spotted a comment at Free Dominion.

    Send me yours.

    Apropos of nothing... old discussion at Rabble.ca about Miram Bedard's testimony at the 2004 inquiry.

    In her opening remarks, Ms. Bédard stunned the inquiry by saying that she was told by the former head of Via Rail that people at Groupaction Marketing Inc. were involved in drug trafficking.

    prompts this flashback to a CTV report from the same year.
    A former executive of Groupaction, the advertising firm at the centre of the federal sponsorship scandal, says he received a death threat last week, ahead of his expected testimony next week at a Commons committee hearing.

    Alain Richard told CFCF News in Montreal that around 4 a.m. on March 25, he woke up to a ringing doorbell. When he opened the front door, he found a message.

    "There was a message on my doorknob, saying if I talk too much, I'm going to die," he said.


    Go here for April 2 updates

    Note to those new to the blogosphere - this is a single entry page.
    Click here to reach the main page and more recent updates

    Posted by Kate at April 1, 2005 9:03 PM
  • TrackBacks

    Good News from Canada! from Spicedsass
    I don't know if American readers have been following the sponsorship scandal here in Canada.... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 12:37 AM

    Excitement at the Gomery Inquiry from Angry in the Great White North
    A publication ban prevents anyone from knowing what was said, but apparently the sense is that the government will fall because of it. Tears were shed during the testimony, and one person who claims to have heard it says the testimony is "bad". [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 12:38 AM

    "It’s the type of story a reporter waits his entire career not to be able to report on." from Rantastic
    What in the heck is up at the Gomery commission? I mean, all of a sudden I'm seeing speculation of a snap election and a Conservative government? I mean, great, but WTF? What in the hell came out in the past couple days that people think the Liberals [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 1:09 AM

    Freedom Democracy on the march from Another Rovian Conspiracy - St Wendeler
    Hmmm, wonder if our "friendly" neighbors to the north will have their own "nixonian" moment... perhaps there's a chance yet for a political realignment. [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 8:54 AM

    Bias and the CBC. from larry borsato
    Major Canadian media are abuzz with talk that recent testimony at the Gomery inquiry into the sponsorship scandal may lead to a federal election. CTV, the Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail, and the National Post all carry the story.... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 2:22 PM

    Canada's Corruption Scandal Breaks Wide Open from Captain's Quarters
    A political scandal involving the Public Works Ministry, a government effort called the Sponsorship Program, and allegations of corruption in the ruling Liberal Party has Canada abuzz with rumors of payoffs, Mob ties, and snap elections. For the last t... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 7:28 PM

    Sponsorship scandal from Ghost of a flea
    And thanks to "the internet", a publication ban on testimony to the Gomery Commission is not terribly effective. Canadian readers should be advised that republication of internet rumours may be in violation of a court order and potentially jeopardize t... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 2, 2005 10:00 PM

    Canada's Liberal Party Scandal Broken Open by a Blogger from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal background; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party, and the Liberals' high-stakes options right now. My guess is... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 1:55 AM

    Canada's Scandal: The Government vs. The Blogosphere from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal update; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party; and The Liberals' high-stakes options right now. Will any of the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 3:33 AM

    Canada's Scandal: The Government vs. The Blogosphere from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal update; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party; and The Liberals' high-stakes options right now. Will any of the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 3:36 AM

    Adscam Information Grows from Captain's Quarters
    I expect to have more information today on the Adscam testimony, as well as more background information on why this matters to both Canadians and Americans. That may come later in the day, probably in the early evening. In the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 9:01 AM

    Canada's Scandal: The Government vs. The Blogosphere from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal update; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party; and The Liberals' high-stakes options right now. Will any of the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 10:35 AM

    Canada's Scandal: The Government vs. The Blogosphere from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal update; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party; and The Liberals' high-stakes options right now. Will any of the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 12:55 PM

    Canada's Scandal: The Government vs. The Blogosphere from Winds of Change.NET
    Explains Canada's corruption scandal, with reference to newly-revealed testimony, A quick scandal update; The ban, the blogs & the politics; Martin's logic in investigating his own party; and The Liberals' high-stakes options right now. Will any of the... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 1:09 PM

    Canada's Liberals Deep in Corruption (sound familiar?) from The (not so) Daily Me
    This really stinks badly! Here's brief time-line: Gomery commission commissioned to probe Liberal corruption Publication ban issued Blogs: Silenced! Charged! Captain's Quarters (one of my favorite blogs) does an extensive write-up. CQ is down rig... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 1:45 PM

    Supplicant of Amnesia from NIF
    Today's dose of NIF - News, Interesting & Funny [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 5:59 PM

    Canada's Corruption Scandal Breaks Wide Open from Vernon
    http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004220.phpApril 02, 2005Canada's Corruption Scandal Breaks Wide OpenA political scandal involving the Public Works Ministry, a government effort called the Sponsorship Program, and allegations of corruption [Read More]

    Tracked on April 4, 2005 6:37 PM

    This Entry Illegal in Canada from Like Spinning Plates
    Apparently, the Canadian Government is suffering a Watergate-like controversy explosion, something about the Liberal (party, not perjorative) Government making massive payouts to party-friendly ad agencies and having that money funnelled right back in ... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 5, 2005 12:13 AM

    A chill wind... and you need a lawyer to blog anymore? from Argghhh! The Home Of Two Of Jonah's Military Guys..
    I used to plan and participate in things like this. In my last job on active duty - not one of this scope, but close! Fun, in the challenge sense- lose sleep, in the responsibility sense. But that was my... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 5, 2005 8:04 AM

    The news that's not! from Classical Values
    As any blogger knows, there's huge news in Canada involving a major government scandal. In the words of Nick Packwood. It is beginning to look to me that the Liberal Party of Canada has more to worry about than remaining... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 5, 2005 9:17 AM

    Northern Alliance vs Canada from EckerNet.Com
    It's the Northern Alliance vs The Corrupt Canadian government folks. Captain Ed at Captain's Quarters is graciously reporting what even... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 6, 2005 12:14 AM

    This Entry Illegal in Canada from Like Spinning Plates
    Apparently, the Canadian Government is suffering a Watergate-like controversy explosion, something about the Liberal (party, not perjorative) Government making massive payouts to party-friendly ad agencies and having that money funnelled right back in ... [Read More]

    Tracked on April 15, 2005 10:47 AM

    Captain Ed Pisses Off Maple Syrup Militia from Neolibertarian
    By posting the sealed testimony of a Canadian court case, Captain Ed is breaking a Canadian judicial ban. Of course, it doesn't apply to Americans, but the Canucks are just batty ... [Read More]

    Tracked on August 31, 2005 9:23 PM

    Comments

    Robert Fife is now predicting a Conservative Government as a result. This has got to go straight to the top of the Liberal Party for it to be as serious as everyone is making it out to be. But of course, that is just speculation.

    Posted by: Greg Staples at April 1, 2005 10:55 PM

    Sweet...Instapundit linked it! Looks like you beat me to him.

    Cheers

    Posted by: Greg Staples at April 1, 2005 11:35 PM

    " The Liberals may try to get an election in before the public learn the details"

    Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe, Paul, Jean, Haroon, Thomas (Walkom), Peter (Mansbridge), Neil(MacDonald), Greenspon, Taber, Joe(Red)Green etc, etc,etc - and all the rest of you liberal hacks.

    The Lieberals(sic) would never do that.

    Let's not forget that the Conservatives are extemists. My gawd, some of them actually believe human life is sacred.

    This is the best news since the Iraq election. Now let's hope Canadians are as bright as Iraqis.

    Posted by: Terry Gain at April 1, 2005 11:50 PM

    How does that apply to any Canadian blogger whose server is not in Canada?

    Posted by: Unclemeat at April 1, 2005 11:59 PM

    that's all we need: theocon moonbats running canada. fuck it, i'm moving to amsterdam. north american is fucked.

    Posted by: Bob at April 2, 2005 12:25 AM

    Buh-bye, Bob.

    Don't let the door, etc.....

    Posted by: Barbara Skolaut at April 2, 2005 12:29 AM

    Bob,

    Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

    You may be a bit surprised when you get to Amsterdam to find that the ethnic Dutch are leaving the country because of the influx of theocratic Middle Easterners. Be sure to send us a report, eh?


    Posted by: Mark at April 2, 2005 12:33 AM

    Read rumours that testimony involves $3 million in Liberal kickbacks and Mafia involvement. Who knows?

    In light of what was going on in the Immigration department and the fast track for Romanian "exotic dancers", I'd be surprised if there wasn't involvement by organized crime. I don't call them the "Libranos" by accident.

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/001151.html

    Posted by: Kate at April 2, 2005 12:41 AM

    Mafia - wow, Canada just gets more and more interesting.

    Posted by: Jay at April 2, 2005 1:31 AM

    You mean there actually *could* be a level of corruption and mismanagement so bad that the Liberals might be held accountable for it?

    Inconcievable. Therefore this must be one big April Fool's prank.

    Posted by: Kevin at April 2, 2005 1:40 AM

    "NOW DO YOU PEOPLE SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITHOUT HOCKEY??" *Read with anguished Charlton heston voice.

    Posted by: Jenn at April 2, 2005 2:22 AM

    Could this be a CIA operation to further Bush's nefarious goals? Hmmmm ;)

    Posted by: mikem at April 2, 2005 5:04 AM

    Let me add these to the pile:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/253857p-217343c.html
    http://www.nydailynews.com/11-22-2004/news/story/255098p-218457c.html
    http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/027_2004-11-18/han027_1415-E.htm
    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/18/alfonosogagliano041118.html

    Posted by: Sean at April 2, 2005 6:06 AM

    The Canadian electorate will of course yawn and return a Lieberal government of some form, because whatever they may be - swindlers, mafiosos, drug traffickers, and general all-around incompetents - they at least aren't American-lovers, like those baby-eating Conservatives.

    I liked professor Reynold's line: "A publication ban. How . . . Canadian." So true.

    Posted by: Mississauga Matt at April 2, 2005 6:15 AM

    Which link was Professor Reynold's line in?

    Posted by: Jay at April 2, 2005 7:16 AM

    "Which link was Professor Reynold's line in?"

    aka Instapundit

    Posted by: blackminorcapullets at April 2, 2005 8:06 AM

    Hey Bob. Amsterdamn? Study up.
    http://www.zondervanchurchsource.com/product.asp?ISBN=0310248124

    Posted by: Paul at April 2, 2005 8:16 AM

    I'd be a little bit cautious about crowning a Conservative government just yet. It depends on the nature of the scandel and whether it actually does outrage people. Remember the events happened under the previous adminsitration and although Martin was a senior member in the Cabinet, he also did not get along with the Chretien circle. I suspect he can distance himself from it fairly effectively.

    In addition, although the PC's and the Reform party are now united as the Conservatives, it would be optimistic to think that they still did not have their differences. Stephen Harper, try though he might, is still not thought of as being a "mainstream" conservative in central and eastern Canada. He is still viewed as a "right-wing" nutbar by a considerable number of people.

    There has always been a considerable swing vote in Canada that shifts party allegiences during elections but this is mainly because the Liberal and PC parties were often fairly close on many populist issues. The strong right-wing focus of the Reform Party has always kept that central swing vote firmly on the Liberal side of the spectrum. I don't think that Harper has done enough to appear reasonable enough for a significant portion of those voters.

    You still might get another Liberal minority...depending on how the campaign goes and how the votes split, they might even trade up to a liberal majority. How? The Libeals will take the Atlantic provinces, some selected portions of Quebec, the majority of seats in Ontario, a few in Manitoba and Sask., a some of the Northern territories. They will lose in Alberta and BC.

    The entire election is frankly dependent on how much inroads that the Conservatives make in Ontario...and as long as they are perceived as "redneck reform party" they won't do well except in some of the rural ridings...If the tories can penetrate Ontario urban votes well enough, they might take a minority government.

    That's my two cents.

    Posted by: Deano at April 2, 2005 9:08 AM

    Just checked my sitemeter - this post is getting over 500 hits an hour.

    Posted by: Kate at April 2, 2005 10:16 AM

    Somebody, somewhere must have posted the details of what was heard at the inquiry yesterday. It's got to be out there. Someone with access to a server in Zimbabwe or some place like that could not have much to fear by posting it, I'm sure. Send out the internet minions with arm-loads of keywords to scour the darkest corners of the internet. Perhaps one of the jihadist websites would be kind enough to post the details. What would they care? They're already being hunted down by the CIA and FBI. What's a few mounties on their ass for violating a publication ban? They'd probably enjoy outing a supposedly principled democratic Western government as a bunch of lying, corrupt, decadent infidels, don't you think?

    Posted by: Homer Bombeck at April 2, 2005 11:17 AM

    Deano: Martin may well try to distance himself from the Chrétien inner circle, but he did have this to say in the House on February 1st of this year, under questioning about the Sponsorship Scandal by the deputy Tory leader:

    Mr. Peter MacKay: Mr. Speaker, clearly the Prime Minister has more in common with his predecessor than he cares to admit. He refuses to be accountable. He will not even get up in the House and answer simple questions, hiding behind apologists and ducking the issue.
    Why is the Prime Minister continuing in the steps of his mentor and being stoney silent on this important issue? When will he end this Chrétien circus sideshow and let the commission get on with its work?

    Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when the hon. member talks about having things in common, let us look at what we have in common: the elimination of the deficit and the creation of the national child benefit. Who was the person who said that we would not send troops into Iraq when he was trying to be forced by the Leader of the Opposition as he is involved in that?
    Yes, I am very proud of what the last government did and I am very proud that I was part of it.
    We will get to the bottom of what happened, which is why we created the Gomery commission.


    As I recall, this was followed by thunderous applause from the Liberal benches.

    Posted by: Chris at April 2, 2005 2:54 PM

    The need to remain skeptical that anything will come of this, electorally, cannot be repeated enough.

    When the Lewinsky story first broke out in the MSM, the only real debate among political analysts was over how long it would be before the President would be forced to resign.

    Well, okay...there were a few skeptics who thought Clinton would try to hang on even through the impeachment process; but even that scenario was just the delaying of the inevitable, since we were all sure the Senate would drive him from office by a healthy margin if it came to that.

    We all remember how that came out.

    I don't believe a snap election is the best call for the Liberals, for several reasons; and if they don't go that route, then the key for the Liberals will be to follow the Clinton strategy as closely as possible. It starts with getting the publication ban rescinded--yes, at the Liberal Government's insistence if necessary--and all the goriest undeniable bits out into the open. Then the process can begin of:

    a) shrugging off the worst of the provable stuff as old hat, in the past, Chretien's fault, etc.;

    b) vigorously denying that can't be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt;

    c) engaging in character assassination of all the key damning witnesses and investigators;

    d) dredging up choice episodes of Tory corruption, stupidity, and mismanagement--real or imagined--from the past, to get the "everybody does it/they're all crooks/there's no difference really" mantra started;

    then e) when the whole affair is well-worn enough to have waned from the shocking to the merely annoying, persuade the public that they would not have to be troubled by this whole sorry, unpleasant mess anymore if they make a point of punishing any politican who keeps bringing it up.

    *Then* you're about ready to call that election.

    To give it a special Canadian twist, you can try adding f) some deeply cynical backhanded praise of the Canadian political system, where people are sophisticated enough--like the Europeans, and most assuredly *not* like those rubes south of the border--to shrug off episodes like this, because after all, it's just the way the world works, nothing to lose one's sang-froid over.

    Goodness, I hope I'm wrong...but I've a sinking feeling I'm not...

    Posted by: Kevin at April 2, 2005 11:56 PM

    Kevin:
    Remember that the Liberals are in a minority situation. They *don't* have a choice whether to call an election or not. If they lose a non-confidence vote it's most likely going to lead to a election.

    Posted by: Greg at April 3, 2005 4:11 AM

    Martin can't continue to play stupid cause he was front and centre in the Chretien government and he did not resign or complain out loud. People have pointed out here that it has been illusion that he has been seeking the truth.

    Furthermore people gave him the benefit of the doubt in the last election that he was 'clean.' Obviously the rotton apples fall close to the tree...

    We need to convince the public that it is not only prudent to get rid of a suspicious PM but get rid of a rotten Liberal autocracy.

    YES, the machinations run strongly as the liberals try their age-old tricks to maintain power at any cost for their own benefit and for that of their friends only. I see no desire for people to face annother election though to save the slimy liberals.

    Posted by: Brian Walsh at April 3, 2005 4:31 AM

    As an outsider looking in (kinda, my fiancée is Canadian) the question I have is how much did the $100M support the Liberals got affect the election? Some Canadian Conservatives I correspond with felt that they were going to do far better than what ended up happening. Was this optimism or did all that unknown money have an effect that wasn't predictable? For example, how much did that affect Saskatchewan where the CPC received more votes, but only one seat.

    The outside view of Canada is that the Liberal strongholds of the metropolitan centers control much of what happens in Canadian politics. That the Liberals are a minority only because they don't actually "own" the votes of the NDP and the Bloc. Yet those parties cannot be seen to be friends of the CPC. The CPC only got 30% of the vote. Why would a scandal...even if it was directly tied to Martin...drive voters to the CPC? Are there that many moderate swing voters that voted Liberal last election?

    Can the type of victory that the Progressive Conservatives had in 1984 be repeated in today's social climate in Canada? It seems to me that the CPC can be vilified in the population centers merely by claiming that "the Conservatives want to turn us into Americans". Unless I'm missing it, I'm not seeing the Conservative figure with the sort of communication skills and charisma that a Westminster type of Parliamentary system requires for sea change type swings.

    Of course, all of this is from the perspective of an Okie and could be completely wrong!

    Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at April 3, 2005 12:36 PM

    Are there that many moderate swing voters that voted Liberal last election?

    Yes, the canadian electorate only seems to support the party that gives the most handouts. There was a total collapse and destruction of the PC party a few years ago due to a scandle.

    This attitude is more pronounced in the east,ON and PQ, were all politicians have focused due to our stupid political system. The fringes, primarily the west, only determine an election if the 2 parties are so closely aligned it has to be determined out here. The Liberals and NDP take full advantage of maintaing canadian dependency, and the people out east fall for it every election.

    Posted by: rob at April 3, 2005 3:16 PM

    It's depressing to realize just how much Canadians are willing to put up with in terms of corruption before even _considering_ throwing the bastards out. Even if the evidence includes videotapes of Mr. Dithers handing out bags of unmarked bills, a lot of people are going to try to ignore the evidence. Better the devil you know, and all that.

    The Conservatives are still vulnerable to charges that they're religious zealots out to strip away civil liberties and institute a religious tyranny. There doesn't need to be any evidence of anything for a substantial proportion of the voting public to believe it.

    Posted by: Nicholas at April 3, 2005 3:40 PM


    I was horrified at my manager's knee-jerk reaction last election, which summed up for me, the outlook of your average "educated" middle-class Canadian: "Well, you CAN'T vote for those idiots! (meaning, the extremist, baby-eating Conservatives.) They don't know what they're doing! They'll run the country into the ground! You HAVE to vote Liberal."

    This type of Canadian always assumes that I am like-minded. (Isn't everybody, eh?) They take for granted the universality of the Liberal appeal, as if it were a matter of fact, or the obvious choice.

    This type of Canadian is reviled when they realize that I am, in fact, a baby-eating Conservative. ("Like, are you crazy, eh?)

    And this type of Canadian invariably becomes visibly repulsed, and physically agitated when they learn that I am a supporter of George W. Bush. (You're a fuckin' asshole, eh!)

    I agree with the analysis above, in "I'd be a little bit cautious about crowning a Conservative government just yet." Regrettably, I tend to believe that no matter what, the Liberals will always govern Canada.

    I wonder about the numbers for western Canada, though. With Paul Martin moving 20,000 Ottawa public service jobs to B.C., he may have already bought the votes that he needs out there. If not, he can always move another 10,000 or so at a time until he has achieved the desired result. All this, with total disregard to the lamentations of the public service unions in Ottawa.

    Now, I'm not a real big union fan, but they do have a point in this case; the moves are being dishonestly touted as "moving government closer to the people", when the real motive is in fact, "moving votes closer to the government"

    D.M.

    Posted by: Duncan McAllister at April 3, 2005 3:49 PM

    The scandel goes to the top, even to Paul Martin. What Canadian trusts their government? There are very few who do, but that's not the issue when it comes to an election in Canada. All the liberals have to do is win Ontario and they have a mjority government again, and to do that, it is really simple.

    First of all 90% of all new media outlets are pro-liberal, so they will paint the Conservatives evil and sinister like they usually do.

    Secondly, the liberals will get out that little old lady again and say "Steven Harper" and the little old lady will shake in her boots and say on que with her shakey voice; "He scares me."

    Thirdly, the liberals will say; "Steven Harper has a hidden agenda." and the people of Ontario will say; "yes that's true, I'll vote liberal." and why? Because the Ontario people are sheepals and will do as they are told by the media and by the liberals.

    That's how you win an election in Canada. You keep the provinces divided on western, central and eastern regions, scare the Ontario whimps into useless and blind submission.

    In the morning the Ontario people will wake up as from a hang over and wondered why they voted liberal.

    So much for Canadian politics. We know our politicians are crooks, liars and cheets. We know they rob the nation blind. We don't need an inquirery to tell us what we already know.

    Posted by: Ed Doerksen at April 3, 2005 6:00 PM

    hey to all you pessimist out there...remember Premier David Peterson in Ontario in the 1990 provincial election and the slogan of the people "LIBERALS LIE...LIBERALS DIE!!! Look what happen to Peterson...It will happen to Martin and his provincial cousin McGuinty...keep the faith

    Posted by: allen at April 3, 2005 8:45 PM

    You all bitch that the Liberals will be returned to government no matter how badly they fuck up. Maybe that should show you the agenda of the CPC is greatly out of line with the views of Canadians. Don't blame the voters for the fact that there is not a viable alternative to the Liberals.

    Posted by: Bee at April 3, 2005 9:29 PM

    Ok Bee,

    Your at fault then...... what do you expect when the east collapses into dependency. So what your saying is CPC has to do a give away to the east so they can be elected?

    To that I say, how desperate can you get?

    Posted by: rob at April 3, 2005 10:00 PM

    When will the conservatives ever learn? To me they are incredibly naive to thing that Canadian voters will vote for them just because the Liberals are a bunch of corrupt thieves. The media doesn’t need to portray the Conservative party as loonies, all they have to do is let some of their elected (!) members spout off and anyone with a brain looks for any other name on the ballot that doesn’t have Conservative beside it. I mean come on………does the Conservative party really think that anyone that isn’t religious, white, and straight, not living in western Canada will vote for them? Or those outside of Vancouver anyway. As a westerner now living in Ontario, Stephen Harper and some of his minister strikes fear into the hearts of many. The general opinion is better to pay off Quebec than be dictated to by a bunch of religious zealots. When will the get it that they are the reason they can’t get elected not the media or the stupidity of the voters.

    Posted by: semac at April 3, 2005 11:50 PM

    The general opinion is better to pay off Quebec than be dictated to by a bunch of religious zealots

    Great.... another eastern moonbat that would rather have his pockets picked than opt for change...when are these guys going to learn.

    Taxation rates are beyond comparison and they want the corrupt gov. librano's to take more....

    Say goodbye to the west, with that kind of attitude there is NO need to be part of Afgan North(Canada)

    Posted by: rob at April 4, 2005 12:11 AM

    well i'm the little guy from ontario...hmmmm...well you people from south of the border have got to me now... you know more what's going on in canada than i do...but it's alway's that way. but this TIME..i think you will get a surprise.. we are not all stupit.i have seen the light.. either way let's give the other parties a change to get their SHARE too.... WHY NOT......

    Posted by: kenneth teeple at April 4, 2005 12:26 AM

    well i'm the little guy from ontario...hmmmm...well you people from south of the border have got to me now... you know more what's going on in canada than i do...but it's alway's that way. but this TIME..i think you will get a surprise.. we are not all stupit.i have seen the light.. either way let's give the other parties a change to get their SHARE too.... WHY NOT......

    Posted by: kenneth teeple at April 4, 2005 12:31 AM

    All right kennth... don't be afraid of the winds of change...put money back in your pocket.. enjoy the life that say's you rule and control your destiny... break the chains of dependency, and join the freedom of democracy...what a concept..

    Posted by: rob at April 4, 2005 12:44 AM

    Well. This kid is a new one on the block and I have to say that there are some very well thought-out comments and many questionable reasonings as to why this beautiful country should slide into the Zimbabweland that we seem to be heading for thanks to the woolly-headed Canadians that reside east of the Manitoba/Ontario border. Can't you guys read or see what is squirming under the rocks that are being overturned by the Gomery commission. Now that we are getting to the heart of all the slimy activities of the LIEberal libranos and their hundreds of minions that parade in the 'HEAR,SEE,SAY NO EVIL' in that far-off never-neverland that is Canada's capital and its sycophantic atmosphere, we will finally "OUT" these pathetic political people. Now that we have had the parade of M.SLITHERER (i.e.Chretien) and MR.DITHERER (Martin) and that circus out of the way, Gomery can get down to brass tacks and let us have the report we are all, breathlessly, awaiting to reveal these vile people. Thanks for the opportunity to vent through this medium as opposed to the LIEberal-dominated medium that feeds us endless papp from back east (Nat.Post excluded.)

    Posted by: Nick tee at April 4, 2005 1:36 AM

    As a Canadian, I'm sick of politics in this country. Our politicians keep pushing it as a great democracy--what crap--when you can buy an election outcome before it happens?? How much democracy can you afford? It's equivalent to our justice system--how much justice can you afford? This stupid british system we have isn't even used by the brits any more. We elect our dictators and that is the brunt of it

    Posted by: mike hawryluk at April 4, 2005 2:22 AM

    Mike Hawryluk, ju are absolutely in black. I remeber this country ~15 years ago, what a difference.Malroney to the end,NDP in BC and one wants to puke. I am 68. Old and sick as ex says,so
    she divorced,there are younger men. But what I want to talk is this: Rules created by feminists are above laws. Division of asset takes over 2 years and no end. What of country is this. Indios kill cop. Government is glad, that they did not kill 3 or 4.Feminismus is ruling this cirkus..........One day somebody `s going to write book.Bear kills tvo fishermen inside a town. Wardens
    say:"They were on his teritory"....What demokracy,take phonbook. For women over 20 ## to call if that bastard bits her, or she wants to get rid of him[mine case], for men there is teleph.##
    =0. You may call to forest....Lawyers are affraid
    to work for man.I Know!!!!!!!!!Everything is $**t.

    Posted by: milano at April 4, 2005 3:28 AM

    Canada was a wonderful country....then i grew up i wish those wimps in the east would just smarten up and let someone else into power...ANYBODY!!!! heck even the mariwana party would be better at least our tax dollers would only be raided for munchies and the occasional dime bag

    Posted by: Wild wild westerner at April 4, 2005 3:52 AM

    who knows its said that ppl that share joints get along....the pot party could smoke up the dignitaries and even bring about world peace.... naw really though i think we should go fer the lesser of the 3 evils maybe us canadians could vote in the NDP for once the pc' and LIEbrals(ya i loved that one) have had their turn lets see if easterncanada would really go for a change i know us bible thumping hippies(putting our"western" sterotypeing as one)are really sick of not even having a say, less ridings MORE FREE WILL!!!!! we can only Pray that the east will do the right thing for the rest of this country and at least get those LIEbrals OUT

    Posted by: wild wild westerner at April 4, 2005 4:01 AM

    Candidly I hope there is no election on the horizon for Canada untill the, "people Vs. the Liberal party of Canada" suit is launched, for money laundering, theft, misrepresentation of identity, and a few other white collar crimes that these highly organized and sophisticated syndicates have perpetrated against us. It should not be lost on the canadian public that the Bonnano family of organized crime was consulted and involved in this scheme. I am shaking with rage at the greater potential here than a mere 250,000,000 in sponsorship scandal. Consider this we first caught wind of this outhouse/river of effluent back in the mid nineties, and teflon Jean or should I say "the Teflon Don" shrugged his shoulders gabbled incomprehensibilities till our eyes glased over in utter befuddlement. Then the bastard called an election and like the weakminded stormtroopers controlled by Obi Wan Kenobi Ontario, and Quebec conspired to Give him a majority government. TWICE MORE!!!! In short they damn near got away with it scott free, because Canadians in general, and particularly you bloody centralists, are complicit in your lack of assertion about accountability in your government, and complicit in your lack of action about the corruption you are surely seeing, participating in, or even hearing about second or third hand because ya wouldn't want your buddy to lose their plum government job.

    Oh and as for the BOOB who implied that only white straight Western Canadians, are conservative, well... I find you to be an insular bigoted myopic fool of the very first order, someone who would rather be told what to think than to find out the pertinant factors and their relationships to one another first hand, before compiling a reasoned opinion for yourself. Also I find you to be morally bankrupt, at least in so far as your involvement in politics goes, you sir, or madam "semac" are precisly the reason this corruption goes on in the first place, your tolerance for this bunch of corrupt theives, and probable votes have whored your country to corporate pimps in the form of special interest groups of nearly every kind. Your tacit tolerance of these corrupt theives, has allowed then to create hollow and meaningless govenrment makework projects in the form of things like most of Indian affairs and the gun registry program. Every time I drive past an oil rich reserve like we have a few of here in Alberta, and STILL se the squalor that exists there and STILL see the mansion on the hill that someone in the reserve lives in but may not own, (for you americans this a canadian peculiarity) I can only conclude that the sponsorship scandal is only the tiniest tip of a much bigger iceberg, that we may never see all of. BTW I am an Albertan Canadian, I have never voted for the Liberal Party of Canada. Also yes I am White, and straight, but no I don't think we should wrap axes in bundles of hickory switches and march on paliament. Yet.

    Daryl

    Read history, lest you find yourself unwittingly controlled by it's consequences.

    Posted by: Daryl Haaland at April 4, 2005 4:15 AM

    yeah, any easterners that want to make this a fight about anything other than it is, i've got some numbers for you to crunch and consider. in the forty year period from 1960-2000 there were 3 provinces that contributed positively to canada's bottom line. bc contributed 8 billion or so, ontario contributed 27 billion or so, and alberta contributed 170 billion. every other province and territory took money away, including quebec which got its hands on over 200 billion in that same period. thats more than the 3 'have' provinces contributed! not only has quebec taken all the money the rest of canada can make for her, she has forced canada into hundreds of billions of dollars in debt. (read ron schlenkers UofC report). and everytime ontario votes liberal they give us the excuse that the nation has spoken. well, with sars and softwood lumber, now alberta is the only province contributing to canada's fiscal balance sheet. in the last election i told myself that if ontario had voted all ndp i wouldve shrugged and said, i guess they just don't agree with alberta's conservative tendency, but they voted the liberals back in. so, to the easterners reading this blog, feel free to vote however you want in the upcoming elections, but know this; if you vote the liberals back in it shows us that:1) you agree with theft, 2) you are scared sheep taking as verbatim what your cbc and globe and mail's are telling you as it regards any other party (oh stephen harper you devil in the blue dress), 3) and that you're generally stupid people. i'm not one for such harsh language but i can find no other word to describe people who constantly bite the hand that FEEDS them, and keeps them WARM. I didn't quote those numbers to say that alberta is selfish and wants to keep all of its oil money, it just wants to belong to a country that doesn't take the money we give, to reward thieves with it. and while some of us might want to join the states, i don't. however, alberta(all on its own) would be one of the most successful countries on the planet, and while ralph says he doesn't want anything to do with separation, most of us will be left with no choice in the future if the east keeps taking our money to make this country we all belong to, an embarrassment. trust me, the common person in alberta thinks these thoughts regularly. and i ask anyone with an answer to my question to respond. Why should we stay in a country that takes all our money only to make us worse? and i'm not talking about stephen harper here and his views, just try and answer my question on its face. and please don't give me the historical data that shows that in 1915 the east gave so much money to the west. i hear newfies all the time trying to remember some figure that they gave alberta before we hit our oil money. whatever the number is it doesn't compare to the apples we're talking about here. and the principle behind equalization(which i totally disagree with in the first place (b/c it keeps losers, losers)) is also not at issue here. alberta agreed to share its wealth and poverty no matter the circumstances, all i'm asking is to what end? picture yourself in a family where the person making the money keeps having to give it to the violent and agitated older sibling who then spends it on crystal meth. is it wise for alberta to keep helping quebec hurt herself?

    Posted by: dale at April 4, 2005 12:46 PM

    If the outcome of the inquirery is as devostating as they say it is, and no doubt it is, will Paul Martin call an election before the results can be published, or will he pull the plug before he himself becomes part of the scandle, proving his testimony to be lies.

    Posted by: Ed Deorksen at April 4, 2005 12:48 PM

    Having finally superceded the publication ban by reading the material online (thank you Bloggers everywhere!), the new information certainly does suggest that the Liberals may find themselves in serious difficulty however Martin may still be able to paint much of the events as a byproduct of Chretien's governance.

    The other aspect of this is that this sounds to me (and believe me, I hate to say it) like the fairly typical party graft (writ a little larger then normal) that seems to be part and parcel of Canadian politics. The Liberals have been comfortably in power for 15 years, mainly due to the collapse and fragmentation of the Conservative opposition, so they have taken full advantage of that fact to pad their party coffers and the pockets of their friends and supporter with contracts and patronage.

    Chretien and his pals are past masters of political patronage and hidden kick-backs. Did you ever wonder how someone who spent 40 years in public office (and Canadian public office don't pay that much...) amassed a personal fortune of millions?

    Surprise, surprise, this is nothing new - it dates back to John A MacDonald and the railway. It is also not a Liberal party exclusive activity as there is still court actions winding away on the remains of the Conservative Mulroney government's legacy with Aerobus contracts etc.

    What the situation cries out for is the need for hugely stronger oversight capabilities on party spending, the rewarding of government contracts and the gray areas of campaign finance....and as an added bonus a far more limited usage of publication bans. I understand that the current ban is in place for specific reasons related to criminal trials in Quebec but I strongly suspect that the sanctity of the trial is the least of the reasons for the ban being in place.

    Maybe this will be a wake-up call.

    Posted by: Deano at April 4, 2005 1:23 PM
    You all bitch that the Liberals will be returned to government no matter how badly they fuck up. Maybe that should show you the agenda of the CPC is greatly out of line with the views of Canadians. Don't blame the voters for the fact that there is not a viable alternative to the Liberals.

    How would a party that has substantially the same values and policies as the Liberals be a viable alternative? It's only an alternative if it's different. And it's only viable if enough people support it. Ergo, there can only be a viable alternative to the Liberals when enough people are willing to consider something different. The lack of a "viable alternative" can't be blamed on the parties.

    Liberals always bring up this "viable alternative" canard. Here's a tip: if you want Liberal values and policies but with different leaders, change the leadership of the Liberal party. Meanwhile, those of us who don't support Liberal values and policies would like the chance to express our point of view, thank you very much, even if it means being in opposition.

    Posted by: Tedd McHenry at April 4, 2005 2:00 PM

    Well, as an Ontario resident, and probably one of the few living in a conservative electorate both provincially and federally, I have to say to both my western and francophone cousins that there are many of us in Ontario whom are sick of Liberal rule. I consistently vote conservative and know of many that do also. This may be the first election in a very long time where there is only one conservative party to vote for. With the end of vote splitting the end of the Liberals should be a slam dunk in a province that has just been screwed over by their provincial cousins. Excepting in some new Canadian ridings, were the Liberals purchase votes through the idiotic immigration policies of this country, I'm confident the Liberals are finally done.

    Posted by: DJMcLarty at April 4, 2005 4:30 PM

    I think this time the liberals have really pissed in the pickles. As the old adage says, " never let common sense interfere with good sound Liberal thinking"

    Posted by: Robt. Johnston at April 4, 2005 4:32 PM
    This may be the first election in a very long time where there is only one conservative party to vote for.

    Maybe I'm quibbling, but in what way did the last election have more than one conservative party that would not also apply to the next election? I don't see that vote splitting is going to be much of a factor in the next election, except perhaps for a Liberal-NDP split in some ridings, and perhaps a split in Chuck Cadman's riding.

    Posted by: Tedd McHenry at April 4, 2005 4:44 PM

    Holy crap unreal never thought stuff like this would happen at that level of government, did mister Chretien think he was invincible.... Is this the tip of the ice berg... what else is going to fall out of the tree when it gets shaken??????

    Posted by: Dave Bona at April 4, 2005 4:52 PM

    Ted, I agree. After posting I realized that I should have said "viable conservative party" as the party was freshly minted from two. What I meant was that there is finally once again only 2 real alternatives in the ROC and I think Ontario is finally done with one of them.

    Posted by: DJMcLarty at April 4, 2005 5:51 PM

    I love these blogs, but more importantly I love these posts from conservatives. Yes the liberals screwed up, yes their will be hell to pay with what they did for this sponsorship scandal. There will probably be an election but at the end of the day Ontario, and the east will vote for the Liberals. Its time the conversative party realize that people East of Manitoba do not share the same values with people on the west so they must change their views/opinions to match this. You conservatives want to win? Well then change your outlook to match the majority of the Canadians, after all that is what a DEMOCRACY is about. The majority rules, as has always been. If the people do not agree with the conservatives than the conservative party has to chance their beliefs, or change their marketing tactics. Governments have always controlled the media. This is the case in the USA which is pro-right but conservatives here are not complaining. Governments influence media and this is a fact of life. That did not stop the old PCs from getting elected many times. You must realize that people cannot be forced to believe in something and this is the fundamental flaw of the right. The old PC party knew this but the new conservatives have seemed to forget this. But if you are suggesting that the beliefs of the minority should be forced on the majority then maybe you sould go live in a dictatorship state. I heard Iran is looking for some new people.

    Posted by: Darren at April 4, 2005 5:51 PM

    I am glad that this corruption is being investigated - painful as it is, we need to know - but I am sad that those Canadians in Quebec may feel that they have been in some way further victimized by this situation. Although the politicians are playing their games.... I as a "non-political" Canadian want Quebec to remain a part of Canada - please do not allow the separatists to use this situation to manipulate you into achieving their political agenda - please realize that there are so many of us that sincerely want all people of Quebec to remain a part of Canada for no political reason - but just because we value you and what you are to all of Canada - and we want you to stay.... sincerely

    Posted by: Susan Wiens at April 4, 2005 6:13 PM

    Tedd said that the Conservative Party of Canada is, "greatly out of line with the views of Canadians."

    What views are those? The Liberal suppport of judicial activism resulting in the emasculation of elected Parliamentarians, billion dollar gun registries that don't work, billions misappropriated in HRDC, alienating Candians to Americans, signing onto the Kyoto Protocol without knowing its true financial devastation, sucking up to a corrupt United Nations, pandering to Power Corporation, Total Group, and BNP Parabas? Why are Paul Demarais and Maurice Strong on the Privy Council of Canada anyway?

    Read the following quote. I'm sure most Canadians agree with it whatever their political stripe.

    It's just that Conservatives remind themselves of it more often than do Socialists (Liberals and NDP).

    “Just get up off the ground, that's all I ask.

    Get up there with that lady that's up on top of this Capitol dome and you'll see the whole parade of what Man's carved out for himself, after centuries of fighting - fighting so he can stand on his own two feet, free and decent, like he was created, no matter what his race, color, or creed.

    There's no place out there for graft, or greed, or lies, or compromise with human liberties. Great principles don't get lost once they come to light. They're right here; you just have to see them again!”

    - Jefferson Smith – Played by Jimmy Stewart in MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON (1939)

    Canadians seem to have forgotten that self reliance, hard work, determination, and vision is what brought us here. The operative word is "principle." Our proud past has been sullied by the Liberals' socialist ideology over the past 30 years resulting in official Nanny Statism. Believe me, Tedd, there is an alternative. You just won't see it.

    Posted by: King at April 4, 2005 6:21 PM

    Dear George Bush,
    I am writing to ask you to please liberate our people from an oppressive dictatorship. We are an oil rich nation that has numerous other natural resources that you could also take advantage of.
    We have been serving under a corrupt government for more than twelve years. Our government is full of dishonest thieves who have been steeling our money to fund their own agenda. This agenda has lead to the destruction of family values and calls all who oppose them intolerant.
    We are not allowed to know the depths of their corruption and could be arrested for telling others of our nation where to find the information that discloses the testimony of one who has shown our government for what it is.
    Our military won't put up much resistance (if any at all) and we don't have any weapons of mass destruction (however we can make some up if it will further our cause).
    Please help up set up a democratic society like you did for Iraq.
    Sincerely,
    The Canadian Public

    Posted by: Lisa at April 4, 2005 6:39 PM

    Darren wrote:

    You conservatives want to win? Well then change your outlook to match the majority of the Canadians,

    Up to this point, the Conservatives have felt that it was more important to stand by their beliefs and principles, and try to convince more Canadians to reconsider theirs. Stephen Harper has frequently stressed that very point. That is (within limits) the posture of most parties other than the Liberals. I grant you that shifting priorities to match what the population wants is a good tactic for winning elections. But I prefer to know what someone stands for when I vote for them.

    The Liberal strategy of "occupying the center," which might be paraphrased as, "doing whatever is required to get elected," leads quite naturally to things like Adscam.

    King wrote:

    Tedd said that the Conservative Party of Canada is, "greatly out of line with the views of Canadians."

    No, I didn't, and that is not my view. Must have been someone else.

    For what it's worth, I would not utter a statement such as, "X is out of line with the views of Canadians," because I don't believe "the views of Canadians" is a singularity.

    Posted by: Tedd McHenry at April 4, 2005 6:47 PM

    Uh oh, Darren's going to get flamed for that... Ontario is full of people who will gladly vote for the Conservative Party. Provincially we're getting screwed over by McGuinty and realizing that the PCs did a good job with their Common Sense Revolution. As a 'have' province we're getting screwed by the federal system in general, the Liberals specifically. If the Conservatives can quit trying to push a socially conservative agenda, they have a chance at winning real power. If the Conservatives can instead focus on fiscal conservatism, which is an idea that Ontarians will be receptive to, they have a great chance at power. I forget what I was reading a couple weeks ago (probably the National Post - which supports same-sex marriage and marijuana legalization btw), but they pointed the fact out that if the Conservatives can push the fiscal imbalance idea in Ontario, you might see McGuinty actually supporting Harper's Conservatives, because it would serve his purposes equally well. Ontarians aren't allergic to conservatism, just a few ill-conceived ideas that certain members of the CPC constantly trumpet. If Belinda Stronach was the leader, they'd probably be in power right now.

    Posted by: Neil at April 4, 2005 6:49 PM

    My apologies, Tedd - it was posted by Bee and it appeared in your post. I thought it was your quote.

    Over to Bee.

    Posted by: King Hughes at April 4, 2005 6:53 PM

    I live in B.C. and I vote Conservative.
    I vote Conservative because for the most part they have some sound policies and they actually have a want and a plan to make changes to our flawed political system. They may have a number of openly religious members but so do the liberals. The difference is that the Liberals are better at PR and are much friendlier with the media. If the Liberals actually did what they said they would do during their campaigns and weren't thieving cretans I would probably vote for them. I could never vote for the NDP...I live in a province that has seen what NDP governments lead to(INCREASED poverty and declining economies). I don't like the idea of the social right dictating to me either but I can't actually see any evidence that that would be the case with a Conservative government. I am damned sick of the devil I know. Besides if they suck we can always give them the boot later.

    Posted by: Black Rolf at April 4, 2005 7:00 PM

    Thanks for this excellent blog. Just to show you how interested we Canadians are in what's going on, in the time it took to read through these posts (and I am not a slow reader) there were 3,089 hits!!!

    Keep up the good work, and thanks for informing us Canadians. The word is getting out there, thanks to bloggers.

    Posted by: N Martin at April 4, 2005 7:39 PM

    I'm green and baised. You can't eat the food, breath the air or go outside anymore. How much of a clue do you need? (more windmills in que, right?)

    The liberals are dead in the water due to this (where did the billion dollar figure go?) scandel. They'd have to publically hang cretian to get any votes outta que now.

    and the spring (for big bucks) floods go on.

    (snerk. the media is pounding the (we're different) drums on french sepertism already. health care, pot growers, radio popularity) Expect to see LOTS more of that real soon now.)

    'fessing up to healthcare boondoglles in que( while RALPH + his asiain backers (alberta) bought the old hosptials YEARS ago and still can't use 'em)

    meanwhile, there are pactically bus tours to que and it's private clinics from BC now. They don't want that disturbed now, do they?

    I live in a neighborhood that has a high percentage of que health refugess... 10 years service there, 5 here so they welfare their way onto this system.

    look for some real nifty (Patronage) funding of things like the BC olimpic (public) housing, etc.

    ottawa will get a new conference center (playground for hookers and the like, typical)

    bleah. ...
    dead, dead dead.

    pat

    Posted by: packrat at April 4, 2005 8:23 PM

    Neil,

    That is exactly what I meant. The social conservative is what is killing the Conservatives chances. They need to change these believes to be in line with the rest of Canada to be elected. It is the same reason why Stephen Harper did not win in the last election. The Liberals are screwing up, they are stealing moneny and they will get re-elected because at the end of the day people can't deal with the social conservative agenda! They rather have criminals in power with the same fundamental beliefs as them then supposedly more responsible people with different beliefs. Right now the conservatives have an opportunity to blow the Liberals out of the water if they would just get off of the social issues and focus on the financial problems of the Liberals. I declare myself to be a liberal voter, if you had not already guessed and even I would vote for a conservative party that did not have the same social agenda, but until then I will vote Liberal.

    Marriage and abortion should not the be factors that a party basis its outlook on. Focus on real governmental issues, like just financials and the conservatives will win. But as long as the conservatives have an opinion on this touchy issues the Liberals will continue to point it out.

    I know there are alot of intelligent conservatives that would agree with me. Its the more extreme social conservatives that will prevent a conservative government, not the Liberals.

    Posted by: Darren at April 4, 2005 8:37 PM

    Darren:

    Let me put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If the good people down in Ontario would stop worrying about a couple of nutjobs (as if the Liberals didn't have any) and vote Conservative, they would easily move the party more to the center on the social issues you're worried about.

    Let's not forget that there are plenty of Liberal MPs who oppose gay marriage, and there are CPC MPs who support it. The only social issue of any substance on which the CPC and the Liberals differ in any important way is abortion, and there is zero chance that the CPC is going to make a big change there. If you can't accept a couple of minor shifts of policy (such as a three-day waiting period for abortions), then you're not serious about changing the government.

    Posted by: Tedd McHenry at April 4, 2005 9:17 PM

    It concerns me that people are interested enough to read and post to this blog, but they are not interested enough to actually read what a party's platform is. It is amazing how rumor, inuendo and things from ancient history can become fact. I am a Gay Conservative who is proud to be a member of the party. It upsets me that the Liberals are still making inroads with the voters by deception and lies (emotionalism). The mere fact that voters still fall for this type of campaigning is astounding. So please read the platforms of all the parties, asess them, and vote for the platform that is most compatible with your political beliefs and your vision of Canada 's future.

    Posted by: Bruce Wale at April 4, 2005 10:44 PM

    The present Liberal government's shameful and deliberate waste of taxpayer's money is not a new phenomenon. This sort of behaviour has been shown to be a natural step in the death of a mature civilization. Professor Alexander Tyler wrote in Cycle of Democracy, he states in part,

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury........ The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence : From bondage to spiritual faith to great courage ; from courage to liberty ; from liberty to abundance ; from abundance to selfishness ; from selfishness to complacency ; from complacency to apathy ; from apathy to dependence ; from dependence back again into bondage."

    These words were written around 1770. What phase would you think Canada is entering into?


    Posted by: Suzanne Thiessen at April 4, 2005 11:18 PM

    THE (Liberal) PARTY'S OVER BABY, THE (Liberal) PARTY'S OVER .... !!!!!!

    say goodnight Pauly, say goodnight ....

    Posted by: Cdn Booger at April 4, 2005 11:50 PM

    Ted, there lots of us in Ontario that don't worry about a couple nutjobs and see through Liberal propaganda. The problem is that not enough "new Canadian" non english speaking, or french for that matter, immigrants are aware of the issues or the options. Hopefully they are being educated now. Darren, wake up, smell the corruption, and vote the bums out because their stealing your money. Enough said.

    Posted by: DJMcLarty at April 5, 2005 12:00 AM

    While a lot of people are unfamiliar with where parties stand on many issues it is not inaccurate to say that the Conservatives are the greatest threat to gay marraige. At their recent convention something like 75% of them voted to make support of traditional (straight only) marraige an officail party stance. For most gay or bisexual Canadians it's a little difficult to vote for a party that does not recognise them as equal citizens. Consevatives have been quick to say that they do not want to sacrifice their socially conservative principles so I cannot understand why they expact social liberals to do so. I vote NDP because I don't want to reward Liberal party corruption but I could not in good conscience vote Conservative even though I am in favour of their fiscal policy.

    Posted by: Brighde Campbell at April 5, 2005 12:19 AM

    In the next Canadian federal election it is inconceivable that anybody could proudly proclaim that they intended to vote for the Liberal Party. That would be tatamount to admitting that you enjoyed being robbed, scammed and lied to.

    Of course we know about the long-standing Trudeaupian love affair Morontarians, and particularily Morontorontarians, have with the Lieberal Party. I suppose if in the next election, the Liberal party managed to survive it would have to be courtesy of the voters in Morontario, and perhaps in Fishheadland too. No Pepsi is gonna vote Liberal and admit it because would only invite ridicule.

    I guess it all depends on how many loyal civil servants the Lieberals will be able to recruit so they can save their useless nonproductive wastrel jobs. The Canadian Federal government is the largest employer in the land.

    Vote Lieberal Stoopid. LOL

    Posted by: Clark at April 5, 2005 12:41 AM

    Hey! Are we talking about coruption?

    This government is the center of the biggest political scandal of the modern history of Canada. Not to mention the CSL and fiscal paradise of the Barbades orchestrated by Paul Martin. Hundreds of billions of dollars not available for services or tax cuts.

    It seems we are in a political cul-de-sac. We can not tolerate such corruption. But I agree with Darren, the majority can not accept some reform (euh sorry, conservative) values. With some few changes, the Conservatives would wipe out the whole Canada. Marriage and abortion: Don't go there...

    BTW, this is the point of view of someone who didn't vote for the Conservatives nor the Liberals.

    Reading the above comments I feel that I am not so far from most Canadians. I am a "Québécois" and I like the rest of Canada, it's people and it's landscapes. I would believe that the confederation could work if the powers were not so centralize in Ottawa. And I DON'T UNDERSTAND why every province doesn't agree for a minimum autority in Ottawa (Foreign affairs, army, trade,...) and the rest of the decision making (and tax perception) to the provinces. Why all this "Ottawa knows best"? Education, Health & Culture are few current examples of Ottawa's activity in provinces fields of expertise. There is a fiscal imbalance, which benefits only to some megalomaniacs near Ottawa.

    Once again, please don't take Quebec's ideas like personnal insult! You have more confidence in yourself than that. Myself, I recognize the Canadian nation which, if it is different from the Québécois nation, is not less admirable with many regards and has the same rights. In fact, more of the Canadians who listened to the debate found Gilles Duceppes quite sympatic and liked his ideas...

    For whom it may interest: My ancestor was a shoe-maker and a soldier of the Carignan regiment of the company of Saurel. He came from Toussaint, Rennes, Bretagne in France. The boat of Gilles Couturier arrived at the roads of Quebec on August 15, 1665.

    Best regards,

    Your old neighbor Yan

    P.S.: There is a country that needs to be renewed. What do you think?

    Posted by: Yannick at April 5, 2005 12:48 AM

    DJMcLarty wrote:

    Ted, there lots of us in Ontario that don't worry about a couple nutjobs and see through Liberal propaganda. The problem is that not enough "new Canadian" non english speaking, or french for that matter, immigrants are aware of the issues or the options.

    I lived in and around Toronto most of my life, and most of my family and many of my friends still live there, so I'm not unacquainted with the political atmosphere. But, so far as I know, none of the people I know there who used to vote PC prior to 1993 have yet voted Reform, CA, or CPC. And not one of them is a "new Canadian."

    It has been pointed out (was it here or another blog?) that Ontario was PC provincially for decades. True, but the Ontario PC were red Tories, at least during all of my life in Ontario, which was the better part of their post-WWII "reign." That is to say, they supported lots of government and differed only slightly from Liberals in the uses to which they thought government should be put. Mulroney, who is a former Liberal, fit well into that mold and was initially well received in Ontario.

    So, from my point of view, there's little evidence that there's a strong undercurrent of support for small-government conservatism in Ontario, which is what the Reform and CA promoted, and the CPC may still have some allegiance to. I'm sure there are Ontarians who want their taxes to be lower, but I expect they envision that happening through some magically more "efficient" administration, not by reducing the scope of government in any significant way. That is certainly the point of view that has been expressed to me.

    Yannick wrote:

    I would believe that the confederation could work if the powers were not so centralize in Ottawa.

    That was precisely the point that the Reform party started out making. Unfortunately, nobody in Quebec was listening, and nobody in Ontario wanted less centralization. So Reform gradually morphed from a party based on reforming Parliament and federalism into a "united right" party. Yannick, you and other Quebecers missed the boat. If you'd supported Reform twelve years ago we might have avoided Adscam and all the rest, and you might now have the kind of federalism you want.

    Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

    Posted by: Tedd McHenry at April 5, 2005 2:44 AM

    In EVERY election.the ruddy Liberals, get on Harper like a pit bull, and EVERY newcast, (which all come from the East)is full of Harper is against abortion...and gay marriage..etc etc. and Harper is not campaigning on that at all, but the Liberal Pit Bulls go nuts onhim, and all the good little Liberals believe it. In the last election, 2 hrs. before our voting time here in B.C. was over, the CBC was on the TV crucifying Harper. THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALOUD,AS WE DO HAVE A BAN ON CAMPAIGNING ON THE VOTING DAY. What is going on??The Globe and Mail and CBC are just pundits of the Liberal Party...WHO OF COUSR PAYS THEIR SALARIES. Bea

    Posted by: Bea at April 5, 2005 2:51 AM

    Bea is not so off base - a few months ago there was a Canadian blogosphere project investigating where the bulk of political donations were going. The results were pretty astonishing. Then, just as the first juicy details made their way to the mainstream, (like charitable organizations giving to the Libranos) Elections Canada pulled down the search function....

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/001266.html

    That post will take you to the original material.

    That raises another issue - the databases were downloaded and are stored privately now - and searches are not showing up the donations alleged in the Brault testimony at all.

    Where did they go? Why aren't they showing up? Did someone at EC tweak the database, or miss a few entries?

    More on that later, possibly.

    Posted by: Kate at April 5, 2005 3:19 AM

    About ...prompts this flashback to a CTV report from the same year.

    A former executive of Groupaction... says he received a death threat last week...

    Alain Richard told CFCF News...

    "There was a message on my doorknob, saying if I talk too much, I'm going to die," he said.


    This guy has no credibility, he has been emprisonned for extortion and death threats. He's a looser and not worth any attention.

    http://lcn.canoe.com/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2004/11/20041120-185941.html

    Posted by: Bob at April 5, 2005 11:22 AM

    sometimes it is truly embarrassing to be Canadian...especially from Ontario...not because of the corruption (that is standard operating procedure)...but with the sheep that keep voting for the Liberals...I lay the blame squarely at their feet for their inability to cut through the dreck the lefty liberal rags feed them on a continuous basis...I vote Conservative...despite what the leftist liberal-niks print and telecast I am not a racist, homophobic red-neck...but rather an over-taxed concerned citizen

    Posted by: Paul at April 5, 2005 11:39 AM

    sometimes it is truly embarrassing to be Canadian...especially from Ontario...not because of the corruption (that is standard operating procedure)...but with the sheep that keep voting for the Liberals...I lay the blame squarely at their feet for their inability to cut through the dreck the lefty liberal rags feed them on a continuous basis...I vote Conservative...despite what the leftist liberal-niks print and telecast I am not a racist, homophobic red-neck...but rather an over-taxed concerned citizen

    Posted by: Paul at April 5, 2005 11:40 AM

    Quebec + Mafia = Corruption. I have long believed Quebec was run by the Mafia who control the unions in Quebec among other things. (The main reason I left my french heritage and came to Alberta). I say let's cut that disease from our society and let them separate. The sad thing is, Quebec is too stupid to realize that they are importing "french" people from Algeria etc. who in turn, have no respect for Canada and revert to the same type of criminal activities. Like cancer the corruption will spread to the rest of Canada and there will be no place for us to hide.

    Posted by: Elise at April 5, 2005 12:15 PM

    The Liberals have done a masterful job of splitting this country. Divide and conquer is their motto. They have done it with French and English, East and West, Socialism and Comservatism. Two steps forward - one step back. Almost Marxist!

    Let's quit calling each other names. There are more people in the mainstream who agree with Conservative principles than one may think.

    Posted by: King Hughes at April 5, 2005 12:20 PM

    Dale

    It's only a fluke of history and geography that Alberta has more money than the rest of Canada. Oil doesn't make you smarter or wiser, no one has the moral high ground in this country. The funny thing though is that I agree with most of what you say, Quebec is a spoiled kid in this confederation and Ontario does protect it's interest by voting Liberal. The only way to change things is to convince enough people that change is better. But from where I sit there are not enough votes out west to do it (by yourself). Demographics is your real enemie. And yes you can separate and pretend that everything will be perfect after, but I don't trust politicians to spread the wealth like you would like. After all how come Alberta with it's oil rich economy is not the world leader in medical care. Get Harper to do a better job selling the merits of his policy and maybe the west can take its true place in this country.

    Posted by: dave at April 5, 2005 1:35 PM

    adsacm + the iquirey. Almost time to shoot the messenger (judge)

    us? death by leaky blog. How culture-vulture. How urban.

    betcha we get tatgeted next, insteada the FBI going after anarchists. takers?

    Onward. The liberals will find a way to buy votes in que, their future depends on it. examples?

    medicare, dept of food+drug, supply+services, adscam...

    you tend to forget the quebec gets 90% of the grants whenever it can mange it. regional development under Mulrooney, for instance.

    we'll not mention Bombadier just yet. Or how much the fourteen foundations channel.

    or quebec's tied-to-inflation immigrant grants, while everyone else gets a static rate.

    (costs 'bout 120 million a year for ref. claims in BC.guess who picks up that legal-aid bill?

    more importantly, the french method of governace

    (declare a monoply and let le-patron fill it with buddies. crtc? todays satdite feeds are illegal unless their canadian feeds. Like cross border radio broadcasting, eh?

    is running outta things to regulate.

    do you have any idea how many points bc lumber has had shaved off and moved to que exporters?

    gay marriges? i won't pay for your boyfriend. Children, yes. couples, no. You like relations over product that much?

    I expect a BIG culture decision for que
    real soon now.

    you?

    packrat


    Posted by: packrat at April 5, 2005 1:59 PM

    Reading all these posts, two themes stand out:

    1) pretty much every one hates Liberal corruption
    2) But voters generally don't want to act on that & vote them out because the other main chance to rule is regularly the target of efficient Liberal propaganda about a) abortion b) same-sex marriage

    Are we so really so dumb as to hang the whole operation of a country on sexual & reproductive issues?? Who puts what in whom, how to cloud the issue by calling the exercise of sexual urges 'love' instead of 'lust', and what to do about unwanted consequences???

    I really can't see that should divert me from the responsibility of using my vote to keep my country functioning & strong with a government truly accountable to its people. No matter who's in power, women will still be able to have abortions a lot easier than before the laws currently operating, (on the principle that it's a lot harder to take a freedom away than to not give it in the first place) and adults will still have sexual relationships which may or may not also incorporate affection & love in what passes for "long-term commitment" these days (isn't that something that lasts more than a few months now?).

    So what IS the problem?? Get rid of these bloodsuckers! Vote something else - I will certainly vote Conservative but hey, that's me.
    Get on with something!

    Posted by: Janet at April 5, 2005 2:22 PM

    The true people of the land will be put forward and we will live as one. The time for change is now. Senk'lip

    SHERILL DECISION – FEDERAL LAW JURISDICTION IS OUT, INDIGENOUS CONSTITUTIONAL JURISDICTION IS IN

    MNN. April 3, 2005. The Sherill v. Oneida decision is a win for the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederacy) and all other Indigenous nations in North America. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday, March 30th, that the Oneida Nation can’t buy land and declare it free from local taxes and laws. Oneida used federal law to fight its case. The constitutional question brought by the Kanienkehaka Kaienerekowa Kanonsesne (Mohawk Great Law Longhouse) is the only route for all Indigenous nations. The two constitutions - Kaienerekowa and the U.S. Constitution - must be read together. Federal law cannot make a decision on constitutional Indigenous sovereignty. It is a contradiction.
    The Sherill decision upholds the constitutional Indigenous law principle that federal Indian law is unconstitutional. Sherill goes against previous Supreme Court decisions which are based on the imposition of federal sovereignty on Indigenous peoples.
    Sherillsupports the U.S. Constitution. Subtracting from and adding to Indian country exempt from taxation can only be achieved by either (a) a valid treaty, or (2) a constitutional amendment.
    Bringing Indigenous nations under federal and state jurisdiction is treason, fraud and genocide. The 1871 Appropriations Act purported to repeal constitutional law. Under the Kaienerekowa, our constitution, and the U.S. Constitution, the only way to extinguish Indigenous occupancy and jurisdiction is by nation-to-nation treaty. This never happened and never will. The federal government illegally brought the Indigenous nations under federal law, a violation of the Kaienerekowa and the U.S. Constitution.
    Sherill re-establishes the constitutional Indian Law on which Kaienerekowa Kanon’ses:neh relies.
    The Oneida sold the land 200 years ago and bought it back. The Mohawk Nation never sold the land because it is a Longhouse Indigenous government that has always been loyal to the Kaienerekowa.
    So Sherill gave federal law a punch in the mouth. Congress cannot change constitutional law. Sherill knocked federal jurisdiction out of the ring. It is no longer a contender.
    St. Regis, Onondaga and now Kahnawake are using a now discredited strategy. They will lose because of the Sherill decision. Federal, state and provincial laws cannot take our land titles into trust and convert them into tax exempt reservations. This case has revived the constitutional Indian law as the governing law of the Indigenous people.
    Tribal and band council municipal style governments set up by federal governments are not legal and are not the true governments of the sovereign Indigenous people. They are “outside” imposed entities. Decisions on land claims were made in secret by these illegal organizations without consultation with and input by the People. The Sherill decision forces us to come together as the “People” to appoint our delegates to enforce the Kaienerekowa indigenous constitution to protect our land and sovereignty. Accordingly, only the People can validate decisions.

    Kahentinetha Horn
    MNN Mohawk Nation News

    Posted by: Senk'lip at April 5, 2005 2:47 PM


    I have not cast a vote in favour of any candidate in over 20 years. However, every election I attend the polling place for the purpose of destroying my ballot. Why? Two reasons. Firstly, because I am tired of the corruption which is systemic. Secondly, unlike those individuals who simply do not attend a polling place -- destroyed ballots are counted.

    This situation is about to change. Adscam was and is the last straw for me. To this point, I have invested my energies in trying to educate people in political matters (i.e. freedom, democracy, private property, etc.). The simple truth is that - for the most part - the electorate is either too tired (remember, we canadians "work" for the the federal and provincial government until July 1 (or thereabouts -- and keep what we earn thereafter), too busy or too depressed with the political landscape to involve themselves in the political process. Chretien once said the electorate is "apathetic". I doubt it -- apathy means one doesn't "care" (I think Mr. C. was apathetic to the concerns of the electorate - not the other way around). I care. Many do. So I will change my strategy (I hope others do as well). I am joining the Conservative Party and I will work from within to bring about the necessary "democratic" changes (At least Mr. Harper has principles -- and while I doubt I would agree with all of them -- he, at least, has the courage to call a spade a spade and to put his money where his mouth is (don't ever let me down Stephen).

    Over the last 10 or so years, I have conducted a straw poll which addressed the deficiencies of parliament and the civil service. The number of inquiries I have made exceed 1,000 by far.

    The question I have asked is this: "Do you agree or disagree: The Criminal Code should make it an offence for a senior bureaucrat or an elected offical to either (a) improperly withhold information from the public; (b) "lie" to the public; (c) misuse public funds, etc.). The "minimum sentance" would include the loss of their pension (and in any event, no civil servant should have a pension - or benefits - "better" than that which they deliver to other citizen who does not have a cozy governmet job) and would be forever barred from acting as a trustee, holding office, etc, together with a hefty jail sentance.

    With the exception of one individual, everybody I posed the question to agreed whole-heartedly (the one person who didn't was a crown prosecutor! who said, and I quote "if you have a criminal offence for such actions -- how are you going to get good people to run for office?"

    Not only was I stunned by the absolute idiocy of this statement -- she believed it wholeheartedly! (and this person is putting other folks in the slammer!)

    But that's my point: Good people do NOT lie, cheat, steal - or dither.

    C'mon folks -- lets start agitating for real accountability -- thet the B*****ds rot in jail.

    Posted by: bluetail at April 5, 2005 3:00 PM

    I would settle for Gagliano being held without charge, tortured, and deported. Then this whole thing can go away and we will all feel much safer.

    Posted by: unbalanced at April 5, 2005 3:20 PM

    Actually, the largest piece of the Conservative's political platform is no to same-sex marriage. Harper recently admitted it in national newspapers. If people would do more than just blindly read and listen to all the crackpot politicians (and I include any NDP, Liberal, Conservative, Bloc wingnuts) maybe then they could offer opinions that matter.

    I personally have trouble believing some loser executive who breaks down in tears on the stand. After so many years of 'alleged' corruption (REMEMBER FOLKS: WE'VE GOT NO CORROBORATION YET!) he's suddenly feeling sorry or afraid of what might happen? What a joke...

    In the mean time, most Canadians do not HATE Americans. They simply do not share the same beliefs about how a country should interact amongst it's own people and with other countries.

    I'm a pround Canadian no matter what the truth about the sponsorship inquiry is.

    Posted by: Greg at April 5, 2005 3:23 PM

    I notice that a lot of consevatives continue to blame the media and the Liberals for the commonly held belief that the CPC is against gay marraige and abortion. As Greg points out and I have before, the CPC itself declared its stance on gay marraige. However, they do not have plans at this time regarding any major abortion legislation because they feel that this is sincerely out of sinc with many Canadians. Whomever you would like to vote for or wish to see others vote for there is no sense in trying to cloud the issue on where the CPC stands. It is also inaccurate to suggest that these are the only issues with which Canadians are concerned. The CPC foreign policy does not move in the direction many Canadians would like to see either. Its easy to resort to calling names and just saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid or a moron. That is only childish, if you have a strong point name-calling is unnecessary. Let's not kid ourselves, everyone thinks that they know better than the next person. There are intelligent Liberal and Conservative supporters, they have different priorities and that is all. Personally I don't believe the Liberals should be returned to government but I would not want the CPC either. I will be giving my vote to the NDP and if we had a mixed-member proportional representation system in Canada I might not even be wasting it. I don't beleive any government is intrinsically more evil than another, it is the system we have that leads to corruption, it requires reform.

    Posted by: Brighde at April 5, 2005 4:15 PM

    Can someone please answer my original question:

    Why are so many of Power Corporation's executive and relatives Liberal or Conservative, on the Privy Council of Canada?

    Elected: Don Mazankowski, Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, Paul Martin.
    Unelected: Paul Demarais, Maurice Strong.

    These people are entitled to learn all the secret dealings of Canada. Is this not a conflict of interest? So why are they there, especially those who have never faced the electorate?

    BTW, Power Corp. has been reportedly linked to the scandalous UN Oil for Food program through it's ownership of Total Group and PNB Parabas Bank. Maurice Strong is close to Kofi Annan AND Paul Martin.

    Why is Power Corporation so prominent in the Canadian political landscape?

    Something doesn't smell quite right here - just like the smell coming from AdScam.

    Posted by: King Hughes at April 5, 2005 5:24 PM

    Darren, you don't LEAD a country by finding out where the majority of the people are going, and then getting out in front of the pack and declaring yourself their leader. In case you haven't noticed, that's exactly what the Liberal government has done for the last 15 years and we can all see where that strategy has taken us.

    You LEAD by putting forth an ambitious, common sense platform using innovative ideas that make sense to people. Real leaders don't just tell people what they want to hear to get themselves elected. Were the Conservatives to do that, as you have suggested they do (it's easy to see why you're a Liberal), it would be the last time they would get my vote.

    You may recall that in his day the media thought Mike Harris was a joke, so they basically ignored him for most of his first campaign. Big mistake. By the time the media figured out that he was making significant inroads into the political landscape, it was too late to tar, feather, and demonize him. In the end, you may not have agreed with everything he did...but the record shows that he was a leader you could both trust and believe to do what he said he would do.

    Just in the last couple of days, I heard someone in the media express the same sentiments about the Pope and George Bush: "You may not have always agree with their principles, but you always knew where they stood. They didn't do what was popular; they did what they thought was right."

    I think that most Canadians are hungry for a genuine leader who will move this country away from the special interest group, socialist bastion it has become, to one where opportunity and prosperity are no longer dirty words. To one where the words "family" and "values" can appear together in the same sentence. To one where the victims of crimes have more rights than the perpetrators of crimes. To one where schools go back to teaching reading, writing and arithmetic instead of political correctness and the leftist agenda.

    And to Bruce Wale...you are quite right. Rather than believing every word that the media tells you (e.g., by the end of the last campaign, you would have thought that the Conservatives were about to repeal a woman's right to vote!),I would simply ask every Canadian to read the Conservative platform for yourself. Forget for a moment that it's a "Conservative" platform. Read it without any preconceived judgement. When you are finished, if you agree with most of what they have to offer, then give them your vote.

    And finally, to all of you who want the Conservatives to win next time...what are you prepared to do to help make that happen? Don't just blog about it...from what I've read so far, you're preaching to the choir. Whenever the next election is called, get out of your chair and head over to your local riding association and tell them you want to help. In the meantime, talk to your family, your friends, and your peers. Strike up a conversation. Don't tell them why you aren't going to vote Liberal next time. Instead, tell them why you are going to vote Conservative. Get involved with the process. The only reason that the Liberals keep winning is because we let them win. It's time to toss them to the curb with the rest of the rotting, stinking garbage.

    Posted by: S.E.Dale at April 5, 2005 5:40 PM

    Guy Dumais from Quebec: Since Alberta's transfer payments PLUS fall into the black hole called Quebec, it boggles my mind they still want more and more and more. As for Quebec separating the natives who live in northern Quebec have already stated they would not separate so Quebec would be carved up and northern Quebec (complete with hydro dam) would remain in Canada as it is on native land. Quebec would lose big bucks if the natives were to take the dam and Canada would win bigtime but punting the whining frenchmen. And I would expect transfer payments would then go to the east coast where it would be appreciated and the rest of the provinces 'Team Canada' would get a thanks. Captain: Get the ship ready...it's time to send them all back to France, the only country in the world who would put up with Quebecers. At the very least captain, get the plank out I think the sharks need feeding... oops I imagine they'd probably spit it back out. And for those "anglaise" old enough to remember the FLQ crisis,with soldiers in the streets and murderous FLQ cells. After Pierre Laporte was murdered by separatist terrorists, they were permitted to board a plane to Cuba where they eventually returned to Quebec and work as professors at a Quebec University! So now instead of murder, they teach hate. Sympathy for Quebec? for the Milqtoast Liberals? Not when widespread corruption goes on!

    Posted by: Elise at April 5, 2005 8:58 PM

    Since when was it perceived that all gay people want marriage. I want to see gay relationships recognized by law and by society,but please, under any name except marriage. I have talked with a lot of freinds my age who feel this way. Not having rights is when a mortgage application is turned dwon because of being gay, not having rights is when a one bedroom apartment cannot be rented by two men, not having rights is when the courts refuse to call a gay bashing a hate crime. Having rights does not mean imitating Mom and Pop, having rights is to be able to claim our heritage as gay people and develop our own kind of legal relationship. Those are the rights I want. Having a government force a name on gay relationships is not gaining rights, it is government telling us how we are going to live life and have our relationships. To that I say " government get out of my life ".

    Posted by: Bruce Wale at April 5, 2005 9:16 PM

    Out of curiousity Bruce, what makes you think that Gay people being able to marry forces you to do so. There are straight people who are not interested in getting married and they are not demanding that the right be repealed for everyone else. There are a lot of people, gay and straight, who will never marry. There are also many people, gay and straight, who DO want to marry. You do not speak for everyone and no one is going force you to marry your partner, it would simply be a option that you have, the same as everyone else. Saying, "gay people don't want to marry anyway so vote Conservative" is ridiculous. Vote conservative if you support their platform. It disturbs me that people complain about heavy-handed Liberal campaigning tactics and then use bullying and fear-mongering themselves to try to scare and shame people into voting CPC, as though no other options existed. Please try to remember that we do not live in a two party system.

    Posted by: Brighde at April 5, 2005 10:36 PM

    When this whole 15 yr. nightmare of country-deconstruction and nazi social engineering finally corkscrews to hell..I'll be satisfied to see khretien scrubbing septic tanks.

    Posted by: dirt rat at April 5, 2005 10:36 PM

    The voting Liberals of this country are deathly afraid to admit that they're looking at the very naked ass of an extremely foolish emperor.. To admit such a thing would be too grievous a realization of their stupidity. They must perpetuate the lie...

    Posted by: A.W. Smith at April 5, 2005 11:01 PM

    Elise, society won't go very far with comments such as yours about the French speaking Canadian who were born in Quebec. We all have to deal with the same individuals who would do anything to take our money and run. No need to be French Canadian to accomplish that, just think of Conrad Black and some others. I personally believe that we must unite and stand firm as taxpayers and demand that those who are recognised as criminal, face justice and pay for their crime. Otherwise, the "divide and conquer" plan will succeed once more and we, as a society, will lose far more than a few hundreds of million.

    Posted by: Bob at April 6, 2005 12:08 AM

    Brigdhe,

    Amazing how you took out of context what I was saying, I absolutely did not say

    "gay people don't want to marry anyway so vote Conservative"

    You are not a politician, I hope, so please debate with accuracy.

    Posted by: Bruce Wale at April 6, 2005 12:25 AM

    Ok to elise
    as a quebecquer i found very offensive your comment on what to do with the separation of Quebec last time i check.the hudson bay is a part of quebec no MATTER what you believe or like .....
    and the hydro dam will stay to quebec NO MATTER WHAT

    as far as FLQ stand please Elise DONT WAKE UP THE Giant its sleep now please keep it that way .next time it wake up it could be far worst far worst ......

    as far as sending us back in france let me tell you that i would prefer live in france that to live in a country rules by you your kind. a wierd mix of nazi and british stuck-up....

    and for some who believe that we hate american that wrong we just hate BUSH ......

    where that beer again
    toxicfreak
    btw sorry for the launguage

    Posted by: toxicfreak at April 6, 2005 1:27 AM

    Seems to me there are enough that recognize bureaucratic BS, but do nought against it.

    Go back to the reign of the conscientious objector (Trudeau) and how he groomed Cretien. Then notice when Trudeau passed away how lost Cretien was and his ability to govern was buried.

    Take Martin who screwed the country from day one as finance minister, cutting transfer payments to all provinces for health care and education first and foremost. The 9 billion dollar surplus was fought over for all Canadians by respective Provincial Gov'ts, but to no avail, of course unless you take a look at how the Ontario Liberals cooked a sweet deal with the Feds by having them hold back funds to Ontario during the SARS epidemic and ever rising health care expenses.

    Martin knew from day one what was happening with the tax payers money and it is only the people that are so narrow minded they have no profile, those that rely on the social programs and money handed out since Trudeau's reign, and the newer Canadian immigrants who feel indebted to the federal Liberals for granting access to a free Country who continue to be drowning in the sea of pig swill Martin keeps exponentially expanding.

    Doing a review of how much Martin supports his beloved Country, one sees that he is neck deep in fodder. http://paulmartintime.ca/story/000082.html shows just how much he supported doing business in Canada prior to transferring ownership of CSL to his sons. I find his brand of truth and politics heinous, hideous, horrible, and horrific.

    From birth, God gave all humans the ability to analize and reason, and employing these God given gifts, I have never been a supporter of the Liberal Party. More Canadians should stop following the sheep and make government, (especially the Liberals) more accountable. Welcome people like Sheila Fraser!

    One has to pay attention to what information governments are dispelling. The Vietnam War is still considered by many Americans not a war but a Policing Action. That Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and a way to employ them 1000's of miles away against a super power! Yet the real agenda was oil and energy reserves for a few companies making over a billion dollars a year. Now look at where oil prices are and how the press keeps supporting the oil giants who pay big advertising dollars, by continuing to validate the increasing oil prices, and reporting the huge profits of the oil conglomerates.

    Government would have us all stay illiterate and not know how to discerne the truth if it were up to them, but as it is no one takes the time to investigate or know where to find the proper info to begin with to uncover the lies and deception behind closed doors. We are all too busy with day to day survival in this day and age and we are getting screwed, literally!

    Mind you the Liberals still wake up every day thanking that daft git out in Alberta, Preston Manning, for allowing so many years of living high on the hog and their carte blanche spending reign of terror on the Canadian public.

    Posted by: Dickens at April 6, 2005 7:30 AM

    I for one welcome our new forthcoming conservative overlords!

    Posted by: Kent at April 6, 2005 10:44 AM

    Ah, the price we great white northerns pay for a little bit of winter humor. I thinks we are finally getting our moneys worth with the comedy act in ottawa.

    Posted by: Ray at April 6, 2005 12:12 PM

    Wow. I finally made it to the comments as of an hour ago.

    I have only two things to add:

    1. Keep the faith. As a merrily gun-toting Texan, I've been slandered by my media for years. Something about psychological projection or something, they think I'm a nutjob... but the important thing is, the same thing that happened to our moonbats will eventually happen to yours: the more they listen to their own spin, the more they will gradually fall out of touch with their constituents... and fail to recognize that fact.

    2. Darren, remember: Democracy is three wolves and a sheep sitting down to vote on what to have for supper... basing a platform argument on demographics is a loser's game unless one is certain that the demographics will never change to one's opponents' favor...

    Posted by: Boxing Alcibiades at April 6, 2005 12:44 PM

    As a student currently attending highschool and coming from a family that depends on the jobs created by the oilpatch, it is understandable as to why I will vote conservative. Being very interested in politics and what happens around me (this is supposed to be the duty of the canadian citizen in return for their rights and freedoms) I have witnessed what our present government has done. I am so pleased to read on this blog that there are people out there with common sense and agree that there has to be a "line" drawn somewhere. This "line" not only pertains to the accountability of governments, but to social issues like same sex marriage, the legalization of marijuana and prositution, and criminal sentencing. It is known that lines have to be drawn to keep civilization from outright distruction, and this is an exaggeration, but what can be told for our future? I already realize that sex offenders line the streets around me and do not feel safe outside the surrounding blocks of my home. My ultimate point is that after reading this blog, my hope has been rekindled. Watching numerous broadcasts on Liberal friendly CBC and reading several prints in the Globe and Mail, (and yes, even the Edmonton Journal) did smother my interest in politics. It is these zombies that suck in this edited media garb are the ones voting LIEberals in year after year... As most of you have said, they're scared of the big bad wolf (S. Harper) that eats babies because all sources tell them so. So I thank all of those that have voiced their opinons and have seen through a media that relentlessly tries to controll us, especially those from ONT, which really surprised me... (after all, all I hear on CBC is that you hate us red-necked, gun crazy hillbillies out here)

    Posted by: Daylan at April 6, 2005 2:35 PM

    I haven't paid taxes in 4 years and probably never will after this.

    Posted by: Gvt fucker at April 6, 2005 2:59 PM

    Isn't it a pity that Mr. Gomery's mandate doesn't extend to another rotting carcass, the Liberals' gun control boondoggle? There is now every reason to believe that more money has been siphoned off that billion into Liberal pockets than is the case in Adscam. Hell will freeze over before I and mine every vote for Chretien's party of crooks again.

    Posted by: Fred Sontag at April 6, 2005 11:04 PM

    Bob: Stary stary nights.... Talk like mine you say? I see that once again "la petite anglaise" is expected to put up and shut up when it comes to Quebec. Well as a person of french heritage, who left Quebec because of the bullshit brought on by the separatists, the mob connections and corruption... oh yes and whining, I have every right to finally say what is on my mind.

    And as for you TOXICFREAK (if the shoe fits), for your information the hydro dam may be in Quebec, but it is on First Nations Land and they have already made a public statement that they will not separate, and the dam stays with them. That is what galls me about you french separatists in Quebec, you simply demand what you want without respecting the rights of others. If you didn't catch it the second time, let me say it a third time. The dam is on First Nations land, and they have publicly stated they would not separate and besides that they are bigger than you separatists!! Although I sure would be interested in seeing you get in a rumble with our First Nations. You could try breaking them down with your whining though but I figure the First Nations people have had enough of the french issue as well.

    I say go back to France because it is obvious you are not happy here in Canada. Whereas in France, you could have your country and be with the same sort of snotty and arrogant people you are. It would do th rest of Canada a great service if you did. We are a country of emmense ethnicity and we all get along, except for... the french separatists.

    Posted by: Elise at April 6, 2005 11:52 PM


    I am trapped in a country where most of my fellow citizens are rubes and suckers. They are ruled by fear and keep falling for the same tired "propaganda": change is evil, Americans are wicked, and taxes are the only thing that keep us a holy land of social welfare.

    God save Pierre Trudeau.

    If there was a link to Al Qaeda in Toronto, could George nuke Ontario? Pretty please.

    Ontario? The Gomery Inquiry does not bother me. Does your conscience bother you? Tell me true.

    For shame.

    Posted by: Mr. Shame at April 7, 2005 12:56 AM

    p.s. - the put Chretien in the driver's seat and looked the other way.

    Posted by: Mr. Shame at April 7, 2005 12:59 AM

    My apologies:

    p.s. - "they" put Chretien in the driver's seat and looked the other way.

    Posted by: Mr. Shame at April 7, 2005 1:01 AM

    Dickens said: "Mind you the Liberals still wake up every day thanking that daft git out in Alberta, Preston Manning, for allowing so many years of living high on the hog and their carte blanche spending reign of terror on the Canadian public."

    If Ontarians had voted Reform in the early day rather than bow down to the Liberals and their lefty pals, the red Tories led by Joe Who, we would never have had a "reign of terror on the Canadian public."

    Posted by: King Hughes at April 7, 2005 10:38 AM

    Why should quebecers go back to France, we got here first, so why you dont go back to england Élise...

    Posted by: Satan at April 9, 2005 5:10 AM

    I cannot believe how stupid and disinformed are people of the west, particularly those of alberta. First of all alberta is nothing without fucking oil, I'm just hoping that their goddamn 'patch' is gonna run dry soon so that they can realise that they are nothing without it. The backbone of this country is Quebec and Ontario, only those two provinces have REAL industries and economic infrastructures (75% of economy) all others only have cows, farming and fishing and have to rely on employment insurance half the year to live. The fact is that Ontario and Québec are sending much more money to ottawa than they recieve from it because we have to pay for all the others (beef producers for example) who are not intelligent enough to find something else to do. And by the way it may be crude to call them non-intelligent but how else can you call a buch of hillbilies who want to ban abortion, a return to religious values, xenophobic laws on immigration, guns everywhere, and spend half the country income in the military and so on. (there is only two options for these freaks: 1- build a time machine and go back, way back or 2- move to the u.s.a. ) Now I only hope that even with such a major political crisis people will not elect these bunch of retarded vultures at the head of the country. This is the occasion they could have never dreamed of, even in their wildest dreams, this is their one and only chance, and they know it, so let's show them that we dont want such 'republicans' idiots at the head of our country. There are more choices than liberal mafiosis and retarded rednecks, there is NPD, green party, marijuana party, bloc québécois, etc. I would still prefer to have a natural party yoga jumping weirdo freak at the head of the state than a fuckin' stupid cowboy with a q.i. inferior to the number of legs a horse have!!! THOU SHALT TRUST NO LIBERAL POLITICKERS.
    THOU SHALT NEVER GIVE A CHANCE NEITHER TO CONSERVATIVES OR ALL HELL IS GONNA BREAK LOOSE IN CANADA.

    Posted by: satan at April 9, 2005 6:42 AM

    Oh and by the way I know why Elise is so frustrated with quebecers. That's because in Québec we like beautiful AND intelligent women, and that is certainly not the case with her. There is an explaination to everything heh! heh! heh!
    HAN! MA GROSSE PAS BELLE! BYE!

    Posted by: satan at April 9, 2005 6:51 AM

    My MP is indicating (hinting) there may be an election called very soon.
    You KNOW its gonna be bad for the Liberals if many MP's and candidates are actually preparing.
    Despite all the absolutely stupid and bigotted comments seen in here about Harpers Conservatives, they are just experienced enough to handle Parliament - but just young enough and crazy enough to actually DO SOMETHING WITH OUR COUNTRY!
    Gad!
    At least the Bloc Quebecois and most Tories actually have SOME AGENDA.
    Some kind of VISION.
    Gad.. Im 34 and sick and tired of living in a country that basically 'quit trying' 20 years ago.
    A Government that stands for nothing, has no dreams or visions for anything.
    Does nothing.
    Nothing but a 'Generic Nation state' run by a bunch of Elite Baby Boomers who, without any apology plan to run out the clock and liquidate as much as they can milk from this country for their Boomer retirements.
    This is exactly why so many Albertans (and even BCers) emphathise with Quebec.
    They may not agree with them but at least they believe in SOMETHING.

    One thing to put all this in perspective... when the LIberals took money from EI and Welfare and then spent it on themselves (200 million) and couldnt 'find where the money went'... Believe me - If this was the USA, the public would be INFURIATED and Impeach the hell out of them.
    If the US courts put a 'Publication Ban' this kind of thing.. Americans would RIGHTFULLY fill the streets with outrage.
    Believe me - Im no 'free market capitalist' but at least Americans have balls.
    Something Canada lost 25 years ago.
    Thank God for American Internet Servers!!

    Posted by: AltaBorn at April 10, 2005 9:20 PM
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