a thread by John Lee Pettimore;
800 sq. ft. of solar panels weigh 1 ton. 2.5 lbs per sq. ft. 40-340 watt panels is what’s needed to power a typical family home. This depends on sun zone, amount of snow cover etc. Approx. cost $10,000 dollars for panels. 10K divided by 20 yrs.=$500 per yr.
There is approx. 140 million housing units in the United States. 112000000000 sq. ft. of solar panels would be needed to power just the homes excluding all industry. 4017.44 sq. miles of panels. How much mining/manufacturing do we have to do to make that amount of solar panels?
280000000000 lbs or 140000000 tons. So we know in order to make one ton (t) MG-Si (Kato, et. al) (solar wafers for solar panels) it takes 2.4 tons of quartz, 550 kg of coal, 200kg oil coke, 600kg charcoal and 300 kg of woodchips. This excludes glass, plastic, copper and aluminum.
350000000 tons of quartz, 7574000 tons of coal, 2800000 tons of oil coke, 82600000 tons charcoal, and 4060000 tons of woodchips.
So we know the industrial sector is the greatest energy end-user in the United States, reaching a consumption of some 26.9 quadrillion British thermal units in 2021.
So how much mining would we need to do for solar panels to cover the industrial sector?
Basic math pokes a lot of holes in most every green plan. I am tired of people who can’t do basic math. If you are in any position of authority at all, this is a requirement. And yes, that includes voters
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Mathematical facts, even if they could do math, would mean nothing to them. Wishful thinking and feelings and personal demands and entitlement are what’s important here. It will all work if you will only just believe…..
It will likely continue this way until we’re all freezing and starving in the dark. Then they might admit that they were wrong. And maybe not. It’ll all be Trump’s (or Harper’s) fault.
Justin Trudeau flunked engineering, likely couldn’t do the math.
He suffers, by his own admission, from dyscalculia – the inability to understand mathematical constructs. He also has trouble reading, again by his own admission (doesn’t keep track of current events by reading), but then what do you expect when Mom never stopped toking, even while carrying Justin?
But I understood that he had quantum mechanics down pat?
Don’t equate stupidity with evil. By claiming Turdeau is stupid, you are giving him an excuse for being evil. Call him for what he is and that is evil.
Basic math,yes.
Math runs the world period !
Calculators came into use while i was in High school,weren’t allowed to use them.
Used to be pretty good with a slide rule, thing was you couldn’t spell ” BOOBIES ” with it.
It was never about the environment. It’s just a means for elites to get filthy rich and exert more control over the serfs.
It’s a peculiarity of the “green energy” movement that the most basic calculations reveal severe technical problems with the agenda. Often these difficulties are dismissed with the explanation that that the science will improve to meet these challenges.
But there are limitations to what science can do, and it is foolhardy to put the very lives of people in jeopardy in the hopes that a miracle will occur. Thermodynamics in particular is a daunting foe that is not likely to surrender to us any time soon.
“Peculiarity”. I think you mean a feature that is the foundation upon which the communists have built their agenda.
The intent is that three quarters of the population will be eliminated, and the remainder classified into elites, sub elites, workers, and slaves. Aldous Huxley explained it all in Brave New World.
^ ^ ^ Who let that moronic commie in here?
No it’s not. You need to continue with the extraction to back up the solar and wind. If the green movement was honest intellectually, nuclear, specifically thorium, would be the focus. That powered vehicle would run for months, if not years without refueling. Your Tesla with its 400 mile range and toxic battery is a cosmic joke.
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400 miles is wildly optimistic for a Tesla Y, even in optimum conditions. In the dead of winter or summer, you might hope for half of that:
https://www.cars.com/articles/our-tesla-model-y-in-cold-weather-how-was-range-affected-448043/
Since hydrocarbons are to be eliminated, Sandra’s Tesla will be useless.
There will be no new roads. And existing roads won’t be repaired.
Asphalt is hydrocarbon based. And cement is made using natural gas as a heat source.
And Sandra will have to find a non-hydrocarbon source for the Tesla’s tires. Wooden wagon wheels?
Case in point for someone who does not understand math. I’ve only been in a Tesla a couple of times. Not impressed. The interior finish reminds me of a vintage Hyundai Pony.
Haha, okay Mrs. Myopic….
So after all that money and time and space is employed, there is still the largest input factor to consider: The Sun! Even with all those panels, you are still reliant on the sun shining. What if it doesn’t? During the winter months, in northern climes, you rarely see it.. What’s your backup plan in that case, hmmm? Oh right, Windmills.. Have you done the math on that sector, hmm?
There are times when neither the sun nor the wind are outputting enough energy to capture, so what is your third backup source, hmmm? Now you’ve done triple the work and damage to your precious environment, to get what you’ve had all along: stable base load power, of which the design has been refined over the past 100 years and still can be. It’s what’s brought you this far, baby!
While your Tesla may be faster than the F-150, once you fully charge it, the f-150 is much more durable, costs about half, lasts twice as long, has infinitely more parts support, can carry more and can be ‘recharged’ to full capacity in mere minutes, also remotely, from a portable container..
All you are doing is changing the source of your pollution, distancing yourself from it is not the same as eliminating it. It also makes no sense to make rapid changes from one system to the next, without the subsequent being proven over time and brought in, in the proper time frame to allow for error and possible oversights. Remember, energy is not created, it is merely transformed, it still has to come from somewhere.
People that profess to be smart, rarely are, looks more like you are just following the profligate masses, because it’s trendy and someone ‘influenced’ you right out of rational thought.
In conclusion, I award you no points and feel dumber from having experienced your naïveté, ignorance and hubris.
You’ re absolutely right about one thing. “when a new [energy] model is so much better than the old model, no amount of whining and crying can stop it”.
Just remember your own words when wind and solar get kicked to the curb.
Also you don’t need wind and solar to have electric cars. You just need electricity, which wind and solar provide only intermittently. So you would be leaving intermittent dust. Which is the worst kind of dust. Because the F150 will sail past you at the next charging station.
People are assuming that in Trudeau’s (and Biden’s) new gang green world, you’ll have the same standard of living as now.
No.
They want you to have a much smaller house, or share it with two other families.
No car, not even electric. You’ll have to take public transit.
And much less material possessions.
So the electricity demand will be much less. And we’ll have to live with power outages.
This is optimistic. They want to reduce the population of Earth as a whole by more than half. But with them still running it. That’s their plan.
Their engine to make this plan real is world socialism. The Holodomore and the Great Leap Forward, turbo-nitrous version. That’s what they’re doing with the fertilizer bans and seizing farms in Europe.
That it is a -stupid- plan and doomed to fail seems not to have occurred to them yet. They believe themselves to be as Gods among us mere mortals. It may require [insert your choice here] to convince them of their folly, but if we’re lucky an election might suffice. That would be my preferred solution.
Their god is Satan and he is leading them on a road to ruin.
If it was great it would have happened already and without massive government spending and threats to those who don’t comply.
Gerald? Gerald Butts? Is that you Gerald?
Ironically, just like the faux energy systems, with nuclear energy the storage “problem” came after the fact. Except there is no storage for electricity unless its a man-made lake using God-given Gravity.
I recently worked in an area where spent fuel rod containers were being built…beside containers that were full.
Greentards are all scarrity-cats of really clean energy because you’re quite possibly as ignorant as a bucket of butt plugs. But you’ll fly anywhere despite the pollution and the radiation.
The truth hurts and battery cars should only run on wind and solar until their owners fess up that they’re not saving the world and actually don’t give a fck about it.
Sandra P: “My Tesla Model Y can totally kick your ass in your stupid F150. Leave you in the dust.”
So your model Y is superior to an ICE vehicle? In every way? I don’t think so. I doubt you believe that either.
But if so, I’ll tell you what. You hook up a 16,500# trailer to your Model Y and I’ll hook up my 16,500# trailer to my 1-ton dually diesel and we’ll set up a coast-to-coast race for pink slips. And to make it interesting, let’s do it in Winter. Are we on?
BTW, the range on that truck is about 950 miles with a couple of passengers and a bit of kit. The range drops to about 550 miles when towing my trailer. Some, but not a lot of difference between Summer and Winter.
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That said, the Model Y does accelerate right smartly from the light. Puts a big grin on your face. I wouldn’t mind having one just for that purpose. It’ll get you home before the ice cream melts.
But I don’t have the spare change to keep a Tesla around just for the ludicrous acceleration factor. So, I’ll stick with a more versatile vehicle for now. Oh, I also have a Honda Fit because it’s better than the truck for many other things.
P.S. As far as acceleration goes at the drag strip, the current EV 1/4-mile record is 220mph. The current ICE 1/4-mile record is just over 400mph. The EV drag racing teams are working hard to catch up to the ICEs. Who knows when they will get there?
The biggest problem here is not the generation of solar power, but the intermittency. This means energy must be stored for use when the sun ain’t shining, which opens up a whole new can of worms that is more difficult and expensive than generating the power in the first place.
That is exactly the problem.
Work?.. The only part of this that works are the people with subsidized jobs.. The rest of us can hang on for our bug eating major downgrade.. Its not a flaw but a feature because liberals can do math, right?..
Take the long way home.. Wealthy foreigners will take a pass when it comes to moving here.. Sure they will camp their parents for free healthcare and their kids for education.. But when it comes to money they will be gone..
The question of how long can we expand our population with welfare recipients without noticing how broke we have become.. Its a game we are not going to win.. After all they can just leave as easily as they showed up..
We know. They know we know. It pisses them off that we know that they know we’re right. They will do it out of spite.
Too bad that the laws of physics, math, and basic economics trump green fantasies every time, no matter how many consultants one puts on the job.
Try making night trips to northern Ontario at -25C temperatures in crappy winter weather with 300km+ non-stop leg lengths in toasty comfort with any battery-powered vehicle available today (or even the foreseeable future).
Too bad accomplishing this energy ‘transformation’ as mandated is simply impossible, but then again, no problem is too difficult for those having virtually no understanding of it.
Just ask any competent electrical engineer or technologist…
Energy density is the only thing that maters. Wind and solar are transition systems to poverty. EVs eliminate a little carbon dioxide at great cost and environmental impact. The rest of the world will drag us kicking and screaming away from wind and solar as our Eloi-engineered poverty catches up to them. If prosperity maters, fossil fuels are the only transition fuel to nuclear for the next hundred years or more.
We the tax payer slaves pay for green energy, oil prices go sky high and it costs that industry nothing to sit on their oil while failed green energy scams are paid for by the slaves. I wonder how much damage all those panels are doing to the ozone layer the left weep about daily? If this planet is destroyed it’s going to be via leftwing solar panel farms frying our outer atmosphere.
Yet another Leftist troll that can’t do basic arithmetic. How surprising.
My F-150 gas stops last ten minutes including P break, Sandy baby. We’ll see who gets to Florida first, eh?
Your acceleration is meaningless, again not a math wizard are you. Wow, you can accelerate a few seconds faster out of the truck stop after spending an hour longer refueling, wow
“I can charge at hotels, grocery stores and restaurants…” Me, too! You might be surprised at how many gas stations there are between Arnprior and Echo Bay – a goodly number of which are within sight of motels, stores, and restaurants.
“My cost is a fraction of yours.” I don’t know about that – I’m pretty sure that my Fiesta cost a lot less than any comparable EV. And when I googled the replacement cost for a Model Y battery, it seems to range between $10,000 and $15,000, not including labour cost for the work (143 steps for removal and 314 steps for installation. Yikes!!!). Even at current prices, I’d expect an equivalent IC engine-swap for my Fiesta to be a noticeably cheaper proposition.
“I can accelerate like crazy…” Once again, me too – down-shifting a gear or two gives me all the acceleration I need, and for what it’s worth, I’ve never had any trouble passing semis (except for pairs running in formation as a texas-roadblock, and I suspect that an EV would be just as stuck). Either the semis down your way are ridiculously fast, or there’s something seriously wrong with the cars running on your roads.
Even with their deficiencies, EVs have some utility for urban/suburban driving, with occasional short trips into the country, but for accessing or living in the other 90% of the North American continent battery-only EVs are not up to the job.
The numbers don’t lie, and no amount of green hand-waving will change the hard equations regarding the economics or physics of EV technology vs our existing IC vehicle fleet…
I guess you’re as math challenged as she is. I know an EE prof whose specialty is semi conductor technology. He is intimately familiar with the energy inputs needed to build a solar panel. He knows that a solar panel will not generate enough energy in it’s expected lifetime of 20 years to replace the energy needed to manufacture it, except in rare circumstances – Arizona dessert for example. China supplies most of them, there’s a reason they are commissioning a new coal plant almost every week for the last 12 years. It’s so they can build and sell solar panels to math challenged western morons
It’s all about thermodynamics.
Maff be like hard for the ecotards.
The post has nothing to do with a Tesla or EVs. It has something to do with where the energy to charge them should come from. You both seem too stupid to understand this basic fact.
So, Sandra P, Guy ahead of you! and the supporter John, here’s a little tip for ya: You need to have a vehicle that fast in order to get to the next charging station, while all those ICE drivers note their half full fuel tanks & carry on?
Question: Watching all those ICE’s stream past you, with hundreds of miles more range than you and a 5 minute fill up, does that eat at you while you sit there for an hour or more, planning for your next charging station on that shiny Iphone 27 whilst sipping your double soy latte? Do you get bothered by the fact that you can’t turn on the heater or the A/C ’cause that range just got halved? Or that your shiny new electric F150 has a little over an hour’s range once you strap a load or trailer to it? Or that your insurance just got upped because your precious battery got a small crack in it from the last fender bender it was involved in, mandating the entire battery get replaced? Or that the value of your precious EV hits the basement the closer you get to battery replacement time? Or that you will soon be paying a ‘road tax’ (if you aren’t already) to recover the fuel taxes lost to EV drivers?
No? Then you truly are brain dead.
As to your observations about EV’s requiring less resources, let’s see the numbers. All the false bravado on the planet means shit without the numbers to back it up.
In addition, addressing your juvenile claim of speed, I have several vehicles that will put your precious EV in my rear view mirror in seconds.
And then your model Y will have spent all of its horribly inefficient electricity transfer from the power plant … and you’ll have to sit for two hours charging your super inefficient silly car. By then, you’ll never catch the F250. But enjoy your wasted time, and insane mode. Because you’re quite insane for buying a silly car
Kenji, Sandra is yankin’ our chain and ‘avin a larf. No-one can be that stupid, can they?
Even Sandra’s point about EV acceleration (very fast!) is mooted by the world record EV 1/4-mile (220mph) vs. the world record ICE 1/4-mile (400mph).
Many people evacuating for Hurricane Ian left their EVs and used their ICE vehicles to evacuate. Hmmm… there’s a lesson in there somewhere.
Sandra P
unDORK with a new handle!!!!!
Thats cheap. We had a quote outside of Calgary (just for fun) to replace 7000kWh per year. 22 panels for approx $25k. Oh and about 4 months of the year, cant get much generation through all that snow. Payback (before discounted cashflows) was at least 15 years. And the gentleman was surprised we didn’t clamour to book the install right then and there.
Remember to never argue with an idiot because they will ….