The posting of this article - After decades of pushing bachelor's degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople - prompted this great wisdom from a childhood friend of mine:
I know quite a few tradespeople locally and they are all extremely busy, so it's not just a U.S. thing.The problem is two-fold: First, starting in the 70s/80s, a culture popped up that looked down on learning trades, as if it were a second-class citizen compared to college or university.
So young people started going to university. Unfortunately that led to the second problem -- the type of degrees people were getting. Many degrees today are useless for making a living. But they were still more, "prestigious," than going to trade school.
For example, I like to read and have read many classics, I enjoy writing, I like music and am interested somewhat in politics, but to have a degree in any one of those, especially after paying through the nose for it, is not smart. I won't even get into women's studies or philosophy degrees.
If you're independently wealthy, then sure... go for it if that's what tickles your fancy. Otherwise it makes more sense to either get a degree doing something with computers, engineering, medicine, pharmacy and such, and if you don't or can't pursue those degrees, then seriously look at the trades.
And there's more. And even more.
Yup, pick the lifestyle you want to lead, then look for a job that will let you live it. "Dirty Jobs" star Mike Rowe noted that some of the people he met that were the happiest were the ones who did jobs no one else wanted to do, because they knew that they were secure and that their work made a difference.
Not something that can be said about someone with a PhD in 16th century Moldovian lesbian tapestry yarns.
Here's yet another take on the subject:
https://downtrend.com/vsaxena/the-future-of-america/
Mike Rowe has been transformed by what he has personally witnessed and experienced, from a good-looking, self-effacing, actor with a dulcet voice ... into a champion for the Trades. It is a voice and an opinion that has been systematically ridiculed for decades. The result; we need to import cheap, and mostly substandard, tradespeople from South of the border.
Ironically, lack of “higher” education has never been the problem for America. The problem in America has been an inferior “lower” education (basic education, if you will). Even as high school graduation rates have cratered, and test results plummeted ... the call was for more college applicants. WTH? As my beloved Football coach used to say ... “you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t”. Yet every leftist and racist education org. advocated “college for all”! Except they forgot that their target audience “underserved communities” (read: people ov culller) have already been FAILING their basic K-12 education. So now, all the standards (at all Education levels) are being LOWERED to ease admission “for all”. By definition, this is NOT education. It is “accommodation”. NOT the same thing. You cannot take chicken sh*t students, who have been FAILING their basic education ... and make “college students” out of em.
What has this created for the “underserved communities”? Useless college degrees and rubbish “scholarship” ... and a lack of qualified, trained, tradespeople. Now ... the only thing left ... is to FORCE Google, Facebook, et.al. to hire unqualified non-whites and non-Asians. Force affirmative-action hiring throughout America. The Left has actually EXPANDED the underclass of America by expanding FAKE degrees in FAKE fields of “study”. In typical fashion ... accomplished the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they sought.
Go to any good sized town- Biggar, Ponoka, Lacombe, nanton, and the wealthiest people around are not necessarily university educated. Most often, they're people who were uncommonly good at running small business. This inevitably led to their businesses being bigger and more profitable. Even here in Red Deer, aside from the grossly overpaid public enterprise upper-crust (we have a college president who makes over $300K) the bulk of our upper middle-class is as equally populated by doctors, lawyers, engineers, and accountants as it is by tradesmen and entrepreneurs with little or no formal education. A guy whose name is on several car dealerships has no formal education to my knowledge. The man I worked for for 15 years had a diploma from Notre Dame College in Sask. The company he started in the late 60's was sold for some $300 million dollars by his son a few years back.
My teachers used to use the phrase "without an education, you'll end up digging ditches." There's more than a few guys around here make a lot of money digging ditches with Cat, John Deer, and Komatsu equipment.
My oldest child's grade went to a career/education fair last fall to get the kids thinking about post-secondary education. I encouraged him to go to the presentations and bring home booklets from NAIT/SAIT and Saskpoly Tech. Today's trades and vocational training encompass far more than plumbing, HVAC and mechanics. There's a lot of training that includes using drones for surveying, robotics and a full array of engineering technology and those examples just scratches the surface. They also include the percent of graduates who find employment in their field within 12 months and wage ranges.
A second tip is to choose a career with overtime potential. Your wage dramatically increases if you work overtime in trades and tech. You can also own your own business in many trades and if you find a speciality niche, this can be very lucrative. Think dual trades and low tech/high tech combos.
Another advantage is job security. Any job that can be done in an office setting can be outsourced. Indoor, climate controlled, repetitive jobs can be automated or done by robots. A job that includes outdoor fieldwork, confined spaces, inclement weather and problem solving aren't as easily replaceable. The belief that trades and tech are lower status works in young men's favor right now because these high paying careers fly below the radar of the gender equity crowd.
We can also credit the use of statistical disparity as proof of discrimination. Sometime in the early 1970s, courts began to accept as proof of discrimination racial differences in test outcomes. In those years, many companies used intelligence and aptitude tests when evaluating applicants, especially entry-level, non-college ones. The court rulings effectively banned the use of such test, so HR departments resorted to strongly preferring college degrees because at least that was an indicator of some level of intelligence. Of course, the colleges then turned it all into a mess by turning out legions of uneducated, but degree-holding, people.
The Liberal Arts were named after the students who studied them - they were 'at liberty' since their parents were independently wealthy.
The alternative was the practical arts: those that were productive and could be of help in making a living.
My two favorite subjects in high school were History and Math. I majored in Math in college because I knew that I could read all the history and literature I wanted on my own. My Math degree led to a career in computer programing while my lack of a History degree in no way inhibited my joy of reading.
As you well know Mike Rowe got into scrimmage with some idiots that went to school for a long time and haven't learned a damn thing, probably a social justice warriors.
Many of his replies to attack on him are so superior to the attackers, it is most fascinating as he puts them into their own place by being actually really nice to them.
Those SJW degrees are not useless. The programs aren’t built to produce useful members of society. They are built to churn out big gov loving tools who need safe spaces.
These degree recipients are political gold for progressive politicians.
A lot of millennials ought to be reading 'the millionaire next door'.
Oh wait, they don't read, it's too white, too neoliberal, too...western civ is doomed.
Do what you want; I'm not going back to the farm.
That was good advice to your child, and I agree with Robert that his childhood friend expressed great wisdom with his or her comment.
As well, what Bill Greenwood says, "...the bulk of our upper middle-class is as equally populated by doctors, lawyers, engineers, and accountants as it is by tradesmen and entrepreneurs with little or no formal education" is also correct. This holds true as well for our rural town of 1,200.
Many of our very comfortable retired couples were farmers. Sure some farmers dropped off because of bad business decisions, but this holds true also for all business people. Some farmers were lucky enough to get the keys to a well set farm, some lost their farms and some increased their holdings. A very few like my wife and I left the business world of accounting, started from scratch with no help, and went into farming, were careful and survived the ups and downs to live comfortably.
Back in the day, as the offsprings were hitting high school, we had two criteria: you will get your Grade 12 diploma; and, you will then pursue a post-secondary career which will give you enough money to support yourself. All offsprings did - at one point - say acting looked good: my response was "and how do you propose to feed yourself?".
All three offsprings pursued good degrees at university, and all are in the professions. One did, indeed, combine accounting with drama, but it worked.
We're now looking at - admittedly - very young grandbrats, and wondering how best to steer them. For one, at least, I rather think the trades would be really good; said grandbrat would probably do better financially than the others.
Running Dog ... that’s an impressive transformation from crunching numbers to breaking sod. Not easy to pull off. Can I ask what you farmed? Did you change crops with market prices? Acreage? ... and how many “guest workers” did you employ “picking fruit”. And how old were you when you made the change?
You know ... you’ve just described yourself as the prototypical 1960’s Hippie. Cashin it all in maaaaan, and getting back to the land. So much easier said than done ... esp. successfully. I spent one long summer of my life (in HS) working on a hay Ranch in Southern Oregon (6,000 acres; No.1 Alfalfa and oat hay sold to Dairy farmers) After that summer ... I had NO DOUBT that I wanted to go to college. I couldn’t possibly face the prospect of working as hard as a farmer. But damn did I admire the brothers I worked for. I loved the fact that they were as self-sufficient as possible; agriculture experts (and continuing Ag. Education students), businessmen, farm equip. mechanic, welder, you name it ... they did it ... sunrise to sundown 7 days a week.
I’m too old to take it seriously, but would love to retire on 25 acres and farm a tiny little corner of it for fun in my semi-retirement.
But your running dog Indian name? That doesn’t seem to “fit” the capitalist label. I thought the First peoples had no concept or words for ownership of property? Perhaps that is why your dog spirit is running? To keep its scalp for daring to “own” Mother Gaia ... ha!
Degrees in Barista Technology are very useful...
"Capitalist running dog" is a pejorative term used by communists for anyone that supports a free market system. It is an old term not seen that often. I was reminded of it yesterday when I read a portion of Robert Conquest's book, "Reflections on a Ravaged Century".
Not ever hippies here. Just 31 years in the army reserve in Ontario and Saskatchewan. Actually both my wife and I were raised mostly on fruit farms in the Niagara region, but I thought I wanted to be an industrial cost accountant after a short stint as a banker after school. It only took a few years to see that the road to success as an accountant in an industrial enterprise involved some moral issues that I was not prepared to compromise on, so, we decided to farm.
Since it was difficult financially to fruit farm and instead went to Saskatchewan where I had an uncle grain farming and where my gpa farmed when he came to Canada in 1926 until the dry years. My dad also grain farmed in Saskatchewan in the late 1940s before relocating to Niagara to fruit farm after four no crop years. I enjoyed Queen Elizabeth's coronation in grade three in Ontario.
Fortunately when we moved back to Saskatchewan in 1974, I was thirty-two, we had a great bachelor neighbour that taught me how to grain farm. We watched our finances carefully (costing experience helped), did not buy big new machinery and rather used old stuff, survived the ups and downs, and acquired five quarters of land along the way and retired early in 2007 because of a cracked #4 vertebrae.
We lived much like the brothers you described, much of the year 7 days a week and long hours. Relaxed during the winter with an old cow barn full of hogs.
To be honest, there were times in the early years when we were not sure if there would be food on the table every day and Christmas presents for the kids were very skimpy.
Though we never regretted going out on a limb.
Now, aren't you sorry you asked? :-)
I have taught at several universities and I agree completely with this article. Many people have been pushed into universities who have no business being there. They are either unwilling or unable to do what it takes to learn the subjects.
I estimate approx 50% of the students I have had would be better off learning a trade. Spending all these resources on university educations for them is a waste. And I have to dumb down the classes to accomodate them. It's not fair to the capable students.
Many people have been pushed into universities who have no business being there. They are either unwilling or unable to do what it takes to learn the subjects.
I taught at a technical college for several years plus I was also a teaching assistant during my Ph. D. residency. I concur with what you wrote.
I suspect that many of the students in that category had no idea what they wanted to do with themselves after they finished high school. It wouldn't be surprised if they were there because their parents gave them an ultimatum: go back to school or get a job.
Many of those same students would have been better off changing fields and studying something they either liked or were better suited for. Unfortunately, I was often pressured to encourage them to continue. I guess the institution didn't wanted them to finish what they started out in and then started over in a different field, thereby collecting more revenue.
Sloppy editing on my part. The last sentence should have read:
I guess the institution wanted them to finish what they started out in and then start over in a different field, thereby collecting more revenue.
Not in the least. I appreciated reading your story. I like learning from others experiences. And you highlight a very important lesson I learned during my short stint on the hay ranch. Take the advice of your seasoned neighbors. There were a few city slickers who had moved into the valley to try their hand, and were doing virtually everything wrong as one possibly could. My relative/employers cited every single thing they did wrong, and were willing to offer assistance. But the newcomers were too arrogant, to ask for help. So they only offered lifesaving advice ... and waited for the questions that never came. I often wonder whether they ever gave up and moved away. Being smart means knowing what you don’t know.
Re: the morality of corporate accounting ... I have witnessed my share of fraudulent audits. Both perpetrated by the Accountancy, and perpetrated by the Corporation. It was quite demoralizing to watch.
"The Liberal Arts were named after the students who studied them - they were 'at liberty' since their parents were independently wealthy."
Rubbish.
The "liberal" in liberal arts is old as the hills and a direct translation of Classical Latin "artes liberales" (the skills worthy of a free person in society).
And by the way, traditionally, the "liberal arts" have always included mathematics and natural science.
The article has a point but I'd like to point out in ditch digging and other similar trades, knowing how to hold a shovel , sweat and take good old fashioned jokes among many other traits where instilled from a young age at home and school and it was called real life so......
I'm still waiting for an academic to professionally put their finger on it. Some have come close but it's a bigger problem than just education,much bigger.
David, I have a new favourite response for wage disparity. All of the quoted sex and job disparity numbers are actually masking the key item - age disparity. It took some digging to find out, but did you know that 15-24 year olds only earn 40% of what 45-54 or 55 to 64 year olds do? Get the ageists to agree that that is the real disparity, and it's against youth!(and call them ageists to their faces as long as they perpetuate this "hatred")
Hmm. 3 "reload" clicks on the captcha before I got useable words/numbers instead of the "upgrade captcha" message. The captcha is going downhill.
It should be noted that Mike Rowe has a degree in philosophy.
the snobbery in fact goes far back. in grade 9, 1965, the aaaanglich teacher made a severely disparaging comment about plumbers.
chortle chortle went the little darlings all in sync.
except me.
I wish I had pointed out my brother the licensed plumber grossed vastly more, 100-200 grand that year, than that c*nts compensation.
but of course, doing that would have made me the class pariah.
p.s., he went on to make more than any of us despite being dyslexic. he explained that by telling me he hired trustworthy accountants, and had a 'feel' for the right numbers.
his kid, my nephew is making more than him now. also a plumber. also 'learning' disabled.
the 2 of them have more friggin business sense than 100 Lieberals.
he's the one refused to ever hire any unionboys-out-on-the-picket-line.
ya. corporate 'audits'
kinda like Enron.
ttyl Kenji, enjoy some California wine on me. I stick to Niagara vintages from living there in 70s and 80s.
I have immense respect for farmers, the stuff I saw . . . . all depends on the weather. one year *everything* got knocked to pieces by a hail storm at the worst possible time.
I'm calling bullshit on this.
Until the closed-shop, unionized and family trade guild mentality supported and enforced by the occupational licensing laws gets seriously gutted and replaced with something that works, this is terrible advice.
A friend of mine did seven years in the merchant marine, and when he decided it was time to settle down and start a family he stared apprenticing as a plumber's mate. Three different plumbers he went through without getting his certificate, because none of them would sign off on the total actual hours he was working. They didn't want more plumbers in the business because that meant more competition and lower wages for them (those plumbers who make $200k a year are making it because the system allows them to keep new competitors out).
He ended up packing it in and going into IT (which is, so far, neither unionized nor regulated) as a network security analyst. He makes more money and doesn't have to get dirty.
This is a really good point and probably the best post here. The closed-shop/regulations/accreditation racket BS varies from province to province doesn't it? In any event, one point people are missing is that many trades involve hard work, and hard work sucks.
..First, starting in the 70s/80s, a culture popped up that looked down on learning trades...
That, my friend was evident even in the 60's when I was going to school...Anyone not doing the full Academic cirriculum was relegated to the "occupational-shop" classes.
I'm one who eventually did go into the trades...but with zero help from our Education System that promoted that even then. UNIVERSITY was the Be all - End All.
Best thing I ever did - made good money as a tradesperson and it became a stepping stone to bigger and better things. ZERO Regrets.