NAFTA: The end is nigh:
...the issue of Canada and Mexico making trade agreements with other nations (especially China), while brokering their NAFTA position with the U.S. as a strategic part of those agreements, is a serious issue that cannot adequately be resolved while the U.S. remains connected to NAFTA.
So you see, if you just look at the pure economics of the options, and you remember that President Trump is constitutionally antithetical to anyone having influence over U.S. interests other than the American people inside the United States, you can clearly see there is only one-way this entire process ends.President Trump will end NAFTA.
It is congress that would end NAFTA not Trump.
I am really looking forward to the reactions from CAW, when this happens under the watch of the Prime Minister from CAW. How is that being joined at the hip with Karl Marx working out for ya, soon to be freezing and starving in the unemployment line unions?
And there will be much wailings and gnashing of teeth from the Liberals who only a short time ago, in political terms, voted innumerable times for a Liberal leader that continually promised to end NAFTA.
All can say is "No Sh*t, Sherlock!" what did you expect.
All this BS that politicians have been feeding us for years about free trade and a level playing field, is just SH*T. There is no such thing as free trade or a level playing field. Western Governments are primarily elected to secure and preserve the societies that elect them. This means ensuring that the society is self sustaining, which means erecting both ideological and physical barriers. Physical barriers are borders, ideological barriers are custom and excise taxes. There aren't two countries in the world that have the same laws, customs, taxes, resources, etc., to participate in "free trade", hence free trade is an oxymoron. Level playing field is the other oxymoron in the equation. Level playing field only works if both sides are playing the same game with the same rules, and we all know that that is an impossibility.
Trump is the first politician to begin exposing the façade that has been fed to Westerners by politicians and embedded political parties for the last eighty to a hundred years. That is why the Republicans did not want him in the candidate race and that is why the Democrats are doing everything short of assassination to get him thrown out of the White House.
More holes in that article than the US border with Mexico.
Politicians, civil servants, kins, emperors, ... they have never been anything other than talkers. It was always the generals sent out to do the killing losing. Won't someone rid me of this turbulent priest.
"Western Governments are primarily elected to secure and preserve the societies that elect them. "
No they're not. They exist to protect individual rights. Free trade ie my ability to buy stuff from foreigners without interference is one of those rights.
The rest of your post is just some kind circular logic. "We don't have free trade so therefore we should never have it!"
The only sensible trade policy is unilateral free trade. Abolish all tariffs and other barriers immediately.
Anything OTHER than bilateral trade is just an opportunity subterfuge and deception. Multilateral trade agreements deliver nothing but unintended consequences. Broken promises made to the public. NAFTA, simply put ... has crushed the American middle class, American manufacturing, and supressed wages. Gee, no wonder corporate and business interests support it. It has been a net detriment to the American people, and a boon to corporations and shareholders. But your WalMart products made in China, assembled in Mexico are so much cheaper ... right? Sure, you now have to work in the “service industry” of “serving” Big Macs ... but your WalMart toilet paper is cheaper ... so it all works out.
I think of NAFTA as I think of Obamakkare. A complex, ponderous, inscutible document that is chock full of clauses designed for special interests to the detriment of the common man. A word soup so twisted and convoluted that it can be conveniently interpreted and reinterpreted depending upon what the meaning of is ... is. And the final result? Your healthcare costs went UP $ 3,500.00 instead of the promised $ 2,500.00 reduction. And the coverage was reduced to crap. NAFTA has delivered CRAP to the average American.
The American people (who don’t live in elitist coastal enclaves) detest what NAFTA has done to them. And they have been, and will continue, punishing politicians who support Mehikan’s more than AmeriCANs. That’s it ... the PEOPLE have finally spoken. And it is thumbs down to screwing America. We’ve only just begun to fight back.
"NAFTA, simply put ... has crushed the American middle class, American manufacturing, and supressed wages. "
That's a lie. American manufactures more than ever, and it's middle class is richer than ever.
"The American people (who don’t live in elitist coastal enclaves) detest what NAFTA has done to them."
More lies. Most Americans support NAFTA. http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/360085-poll-majority-says-nafta-is-good-for-the-us
That there are a large number that don't goes to show what a threat the 'new poor' are. These people with no post-secondary accomplishments who are shocked that no one will be paying them 30 an hour plus bennies to turn a wrench should not be allowed to vote. No post-secondary education or business or...something should bar someone from voting.
I have been trying to rid my life of rent seekers, like political parties. Whether they win or lose, follow promises or not, they keep the donations you give them.
Whether your stocks make money or lose, financial advisers make money.
Whether you toilet starts working again or not, the plumber ... now there is an actual doer.
Whether your car works again or not, the mechanic ... another doer. He don't get paid if your piston rod has not been replaced.
The cops in Broward county, looks like they may be transitioning into rent seeking. But, given the Ferguson effect, the number of cops that have been Zimmermaned simply for doing their jobs, ... who can blame them? If I were a cop today, and I saw a black person with a gun beside a pile of 50 bodies, I would think about standing down to. If BLM comes to town, it is everybody's azz...
There is no "Ferguson effect", and cops are not being nailed to a cross. People are just getting tired of abuse from the blue gang.
Boy, you really are a mental basket case, aren't you? Next you'll be telling us what a great idea it was for South Africa to vote to expropriate land from white landowners without compensation. What a clown.
I suspect NAFTA is done. Another agreement may replace it. The Americans want a new (better) deal. They will get it.
Our mascot prime minister bongo was not up to the job of properly representing Canadian interests. There will be consequences.
I'm for unfettered free trade.
Thanks for yet another superb laugh. I look forward to reading your comments because they keep me laughing all day long. It's just GOT to be an act on your part, yes? Man, but you ought to take your humour shtick on the road. I've never read anyone who has the "Humour of the Ridiculous" nailed down so professionally.
Keep up the humour, buddy. It gives us all a lift to see how far people can deceive themselves and then spout that deception like a broken water main.
Whether one regards NAFTA as good, bad or neutral, consider who is at the helm and who pulls his strings.
Trump was elected to represent American interests and he is.
Trudeau is moron who couldn't find water if he fell into a lake. That is irrelevant considering who pulls his strings (ie - Chinese, old Laurentians who may have money tied up somewhere). If Trump were to cancel NAFTA (which he may do), Justin is too stupid to prevent it or think of another trade deal that would preserve Canadian jobs or the economy, nor would he want to. His overtures to China seem more like his paying back his supporters than opening up a trade route with a country known for its human rights abuses and inferior products. Should Trump pull the plug on NAFTA, Justin will finish selling off the rest of this country in desperation and head to Aga Khan's island.
There is no happy ending, really, is my point.
I suspect that when all those poor, uneducated, middle class Americans show up at your door with pitchforks ... you will endorse having the government dispose of their bodies in mass graves. As a highly educated coastal elite ... I have not lost my compassion and care for my fellow downtrodden citizens as you have. You will be happy to bulldoze the 60,000 homeless into the LA River and watch their bodies float out to sea.
NAFTA “says” free trade ... but delivers imbalanced trade. Delivers cheap shit made by really poor people who can be exploited in their shithole countries with UNequal environmental and labor laws. What is “fair” about that? What is “free market” about that? I call it “slavery-lite” ... you call it “fair trade”. I call it “exploitation of the poor” ... you call it “economic opportunity”. You are the LIAR, I am not.
You prattle on about your fair-trade, shade-grown, coffee ... so proud ... while ignoring Apple’s 3rd world sweatshops ... Lord knows you wouldn’t want your iPhone XI to cost $1500. Instead of $1250.
I just love coming to this site for the humour that is expressed by some commentators. Commentators that think they have all the answers for all the problems in the world, when their world view is severely restricted because their world is ensconced in their momma's basement and they haven't grown up enough to look out the basement window, nor have they the brains to pull a chair over to help them see the view outside.
The problem at this point is that these dough heads can vote and look who they helped get elected. The biggest dough head in the country that couldn't run a lemonade stand in the desert, or as Osumashi rightly stated above couldn't find water if he fell into a lake.
If you wish to continue in ignorance of these regular self-agrandizing sinecure seeking Women then doen't read my following comments. They will be a surprise to the ignorance of the Californicans regulars and close to Secretary Rice's comment. {one of my Heroines}
A decades long frendship with a Man who was born and raised in the same nrothwest corner of Georgia as former President Jimmy Carter. My Friend is comfortable in His retirement home and near His Family in the Florida Panhandle.
The standard reference to Florida about Race-Relations is South Florida is the "North" and North Florida is the "South". Which I am confident the Californicans on the View; if they even think beyond the Democrat Daily Dogma Dictates, will also continue to believe.
Such a belief in the Democrat smearedia strugling to survive the finally becoming corruption of the Democrat Party and the Clinton/Soros disregard for Ameican Deplorables is now the "battlecry of ignorance" by the Daytime Talk Show meme shows such as the "View.
Fortunately it only takes one sentence from a truly accomplished Woman such as Secretary Rice to reveal the View's regulars deliberate ignorance and sinecure seeking.
My similar story to Secretary Rice is the Story of my North Florida Friend born and raised in the same Georgia as President Jimmy Carter.
Wayne--was born into a Rural Family of Farmers and entreprenurs in the late 1930's. As he tells his Story; "the second Woman he met was His loved Mammy". She became His caregiver and protector during infancy and early childhood. He doesn't talk much about His Birth Mother, I think the hurt of of Her poor health and demise is very deep and not for discussion. Y'all might have similar good Friends from the South.
Anyway; My Friends Step Mother also a white Southerner and She and "Mammy" Her black Friend and major persona in raising the Children of this farm and entrepreneur family.
My Friend in "South" northern Florida also does not talk about the caution a white man of His and my Age experiences with black teen-agers in casual encounters. He is not sensitive as I am, being a Canadain who has with over Forty years of travel on business and vacation probably more of "y'all" than "eh!" in my accent(s).
A story teller by nature and inclination from His "Stepmom" School Teacher and
His "Mammy"; my Friend is wise and entertaining in our joint efforts to _sort out the problems of the world at present_.
Similar to Secretary Rice's story of the Second Amendment my Friend tells about the time when the "Klan" announced they were going to hold a gathering near their North West Georgia Family Farm.
I paraphrase for brevity; "Paw quietly went to the black People who were employed on the Family Farm and business, plus their Neighbours and friends.-- You Folks just stay at home and protect your Families. This situation will be looked after and not happen again."
The Klan gathered at their planned location and just before they lit their Tar & Kerosene soaked rags on a Cross; a Circle of Truck Lights were turned on from all of the Farmers in that Part of North West Georgia and lit up Klan's attendees; A loud booming Voice rang out over the Gathering; which--wisely-- stated--"Y'all go ahead and have your little meeting and your cross burning; But do not ever come back to this area again, because there are many more rifles and shot guns pointed at you in the clearing than there are of y'all in the claering".
The truck lights were turned off, but star light revealed the number of trucks and Men. The klan krowd lit their burning cross; there were some speeches made; the burning revealed the extra trucks and men behind the Front Circle of trucks.
The burning cross sputtered and went out. Several of the circling Trucks moved back from the road access and the attendees quietly drove away in a line away from their gathering area; never to come back.
"Trump was elected to represent American interests and he is."
He's representing the interests of WhirlPool and various steel/aluminum producers at massive cost to normal people. There is no such thing as a collective national 'interest'.
"I suspect that when all those poor, uneducated, middle class Americans show up at your door with pitchforks ... you will endorse having the government dispose of their bodies in mass graves. "
If that's what keeps them from hurting me...
"imbalanced trade."
I have 'imbalanced' trade with Costco and that's not a problem. No such thing as a trade deficit.
"Delivers cheap shit made by really poor people who can be exploited in their shithole countries with UNequal environmental and labor laws. What is “fair” about that? What is “free market” about that?"
Life ain't fair buddy. It's not obligation to buy your stuff. It's your obligation to let me buy from whomever I want.
"You prattle on about your fair-trade, shade-grown, coffee ... so proud ... while ignoring Apple’s 3rd world sweatshops ... Lord knows you wouldn’t want your iPhone XI to cost $1500. Instead of $1250."
That's some fine projection right there.
When I see strad or un or some others in the line, I just immediately skip to the next post. You should too. Now I have wasted my time, replying to someone who wasted their time, engaging a troll.
I'm with Johnpeg and Joey on Unme, a low informed , low IQ biased fool who is like Justine, just wants to be noticed. I used to have to deal with some fools like that when I was a service technician. After I reported the source of a companies problems to higher ups, and few of them lost their jobs:-)))
They see humans, and their interactions as ridged constructs. When I fact humans are malleable and flexible. Trump understands humans quite well, and that is one of his best strong points:-))
Unthing is the clown act in here:-))
Because of NAFTA TN visas I was able to work in the US in high tech after I graduated. Best thing that ever happened to me. I continue to work for the same fantastic US company even though I am now back in Canada and every day I am grateful. Opportunities in Canada in my field when I graduated were zero. The TN visas were a game changer for my career.
As far as the NAFTA negotiations go, keep in mind that on the Canadian side we have Shiny Pony's highly incompetent affirmative action cabinet at the wheel. I know how Americans think when it comes to business, and it is fair to say that behind our backs they are chortling. We appear like rank amateurs to them, and the problem is only compounded by the social justice nonsense that our stupid PM keeps whining on about.
We have bar none the most idiotic, incompetent, childish Prime Minister since the start of confederation and we get everything we deserve whether it be at the NAFTA table or anywhere else. He is just a puppet who has his strings pulled everyday by unelected individuals working behind the scenes with their own agendas that do not align with the interests of Canada. Those who voted for the juvenile boy should hang their heads in shame.
A two or three decades ago, I don't recall the date, but Ross Perrot was running as ain independent specifically to stop NAFTA.. He warning Americans of that 'huge sucking sound' would be the jobs being sucked into Mexico and Canada. He was right, but had no chance of winning and split the vote and we got ... Clinton? Who did he run against?
I think that article was accurate. Canada has benefitted more than the USA.
We should have never signed the auto pact back in the day,... that prevented Canada from producing its own automobiles and exporting them. Then there was the Avro Rocket jet that we had to shelve for some reason ...Our politicians have been selling us out forever.
It should make the Liberals happy, after all NAFTA was going to be the end of the world when Mulroney brought it in and Cretien was in opposition.
conservatism allows for dissent
Our mascot prime minister bongo was not up to the job of properly representing Canadian interests.
Since we now have no common values or core identity, why should he represent interests that don't exist?
I still think unme shows indicators it is a bot. the unmebot.
programmed to mimic the thoughts of its 11 yr old programmer.
The US will shred NAFTA .... Trudeau will declare moral victory for insisting on a social justice economy that grows from the heart outwards. Foreign investors will be buying up impoverished Canadian companies just like during Pierre's regime.
During the election campaign in 2016, I said that while Trump knows business, he was ignorant on trade and economics, and now he's proving it. Trunp's tariffs will only make things more expensive for American industry and consumers, which means lost jobs and a hurting economy. The last time the US imposed a tariff on steel it resulted in a quarter million job losses. Trump is putting tariffs on almost everything the US imports, so it's going to hit them hard.
The only chance of the Democrats not taking back the Senate and Congress is that the economy is good. What he did during the first year achieved that goal. What he's doing now will wipe out those gains and more.
I had hoped that wiser people would explain economic reality to him and he would listen, but apparently not. So NAFTA is dead and Trump is setting trade policy. That will be the end of the Trump presidency.
Manufacturing has grown since. Job losses in manufacturing are due mostly to automation not NAFTA. Perhaps we should ban automation?
How did that work out for Cuba?
I had hoped that wiser people would explain economic reality to him and he would listen, but apparently not. So NAFTA is dead and Trump is setting trade policy. That will be the end of the Trump presidency.
He was selected to do this, that's why he drained the swamp into his cabinet...thesis + antithesis = synthesis
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/trump-says-will-hard-unify-country-without-major-event/217624
Trump also said that Americans usually come together during times of suffering.
“I would love to be able to bring back our country into a great form of unity,” Trump said. “Without a major event where people pull together, that’s hard to do. But I would like to do it without that major event because usually that major event is not a good thing.”
Antenor, I am now worried that Justin will ban liquid of all kinds lest they prove more clever than he.
UnMe, anyone who proudly declares their alleged intelligence clearly has a low self-esteem problem.
What are you trying to tell us?
The "Whirlpool" set did not vote over a million times to put Trump into office. The American electorate, tired after eight years of Obama and mortified at the sight of doddering and acidic old Hillary, put Trump into office. He promised jobs and has, for the most part, delivered. How is that for collective national interest?
There clearly are trade deficits because countries have them and there are labour and trade disparities. Saying: "tough sh--" to some Third World labourer doesn't prove your capitalist bona fides but just cements the idea that you might be a jerk.
Did you read the link?
Nafta has been used as a back door via Canada and Mexico for countries like China to dump their products into the North American market. What I hear Trump saying is this,
"hey Canada, if you want to turn all your manufacturing over to counties like China knock yourself out, but here in America we want to maintain our ability to manufacture some things because not everybody can work at google"
"The Plan is for the United States to rule the world. The overt theme is unilateralism, but it is ultimately a story of domination. It calls for the United States to maintain its overwhelming superiority and prevent new rivals from rising up to challenge it on the world stage. It calls for dominion over friends and enemies alike. It says not that the United States must be more powerful, or most powerful, but that it must be absolutely powerful."
Vice-President Dick Cheney (CFR member)
- West Point lecture, June 2002
Remember, Trump is a very stable genius.
He's proven that 2^umpteenth times, but he still manages to roll and roil people to his advantage without breaking a sweat (genius). Did anyone read "It's Probably Nothing"? It was the Russians who acted to provoke; Trump's team stood their ground and followed up to de-escalate a volatile situation. (stable)
USA will do well, it's my country's negotiating team I'm worried about.
Scott Adams
https://youtu.be/zTPUY_C9OVg
Thanks for mentioning Cheney made it to the Canadian Finals Rodeo. :) I'll try to respect him for that at least.
So I see the Liberal government in Canada being totally incompetent, sabotaging our economy and diminishing our respect and influence globally. You see this as the Americans somehow being the ones doing that to us.
"The Plan is for the United States to rule the world. Blah, blah, blah"
So you go to a far left blog site..... and quote what they say ..... and pass it off as a direct quote from Dick Cheney......
Are you a Russian Bot or just senile... in any case, you have no credibility.
NAFTA “says” free trade ... but delivers imbalanced trade."
The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $12.5 billion in 2016. (https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada)
Any problem with imbalanced trade with Canada?
The conflict of opposites is essential to bring about the desired change...standard Hegelian Dialectics. Used for nearly 200 years (and long before that under other names) and people still haven't caught on...like the left/right paradigm. Conflict of opposites to bring about controlled change.
http://gulagbound.com/43720/hegelian-dialectics-for-dummies/
Hegelian Dialectics for Dummies
If we truly wanted free access to the US market there is only one way to get there.
We become part of the US.
Not that it would happen, but that comeback is for those that have expressed their sudden affection for NAFTA only after Trumps election.
I had no idea that Canadians and Mexicans were importing steel from China and dumping it in the US using NAFTA. It’s bullshit if true. This is how Trump keeps winning these things. Everybody is supposed to keep up elaborate lies that fall like a house of cards at the first breeze of truth.
"We have bar none the most idiotic, incompetent, childish Prime Minister since the start of confederation and we get everything we deserve whether it be at the NAFTA table or anywhere else." And that goes for his cabinet as well, including Squealer (Animal Farm character), the MP from Regina.
Well said.
Before all you Trumpsters pick up your Pom Poms and cheer on his populist protectionism (too late for most, I'm afraid) you might want to look at some trade stats. The US is the 4th largest producer of Steel. China is number one at roughly ten times the US production. Canada is 17th. The US produces roughly 90 million tonnes, exports 10 and imports 30 or is a net importer of 20 million tonnes (20% of total demand). Half of those US steel exports go to Canada. As far as Canada being a conduit for Chinese steel as this post implies, read these: https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-Canada.pdf https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:0474d208-9108-4927-ace8-4ac5445c5df8/World+Steel+in+Figures+2017.pdf
BTW, free trade is always and everywhere the best solution from an economic and moral perspective.
Don't bother. They're firmly entrenched in their false narratives and don't want to give them up. Facts, logic, and statistics need not apply!
While you have provided an interesting link I'm not sure what it proves except that Canada is a small player in world trade when it comes to steel (less that 3%)
I found one chart interesting, 'Canada's Trade Remedies in effect Against Steel Mill Imports'
Under anti-dumping duties(AD) and countervailing duties (CVD) China is cited 14 times. South Korea cited 5 times and the rest of the countries on the list 1-3 times.
Incidentally the USA is not cited on that list.
"free trade is always and everywhere the best solution from an economic and moral perspective"
Yes it is, but if exporting every manufacturing job to Red China where labor and environmental rules are non-existent in order to uphold our moral free trade bona fides, is it logical to ask how many groceries can your average Canadian Joe Shlub buy with that superior economic and moral perspective bulging in his wallet?
There are no current or pending CVDs or anti dumping steel duties between the USA and canada. Why are we targeted when China is the target?
Those are two dramatically different scenarios.
Yes it is, but if exporting every manufacturing job to Red China where labor and environmental rules are non-existent in order to uphold our moral free trade bona fides, is it logical to ask how many groceries can your average Canadian Joe Shlub buy with that superior economic and moral perspective bulging in his wallet?
Sounds like a leftist, manufacturers exist to provide jobs... :-)
The conservativetreehouse link at the top of this thread does not specifically mention the steel trade but discusses trade issues in a more general way so I'm puzzled how John Chittick's link about the Canadian steel industry debunks or even relates to the original opinion piece at the top of this thread.
This really is a terrible source.
This really is a terrible source.
The US steel industry is not hurting, in fact it's expanding. Same with aluminum. But they don't produce enough in country to supply their needs so they still need to import just as much. Putting on the tariff raises prices, so now every industry that uses steel and/or aluminum has added costs. Adding costs hurts industry.
Trump knows business. He doesn't know trade or world economics. This will hurt the US. It will hurt Trump.
I hope I'm wrong.