They had to go Title I in order to get to Trump. The application was denied 3 times prior to the final approval on October 21st. Page left the campaign on September 23rd. By going Title I, they were able to monitor anyone he may have had contact with (ie Trump Tower).
— Andrew NOT McCabe McWhortor #Deplorable (@AMcwhortor) February 5, 2018
But start here.
(Not certain the "denied 3 times" portion is accurate, all the info I've been following says once.)
Related: "There has been almost 100 leaks that we believe have come from the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee,"
People do not understand how much information the NSA has.
This warrant allowed the FBI NSD and the Obama Administration to go backwards in time, and search not only Carter Page's information, but EVERYONE he contacted going back years. They were able to look at communications from Page to Trump Campaign officials in 2015 and 2016, and then because these officials were possibly being "recruited by the evil Russian Spy Carter Page," every communication by those same Trump Campaign officials to other Trump campaign officials. Every Email, Every Cellphone call, Every Phone call by these people in 2015 and 2016. The FBI needed to make sure all the people Carter Page contacted were not Russian Spies, or unknown Russian Intelligence assets. Yes, they could search everything from even before the warrant was issued.
The NSA has all this information stored electronically going back for years. Everything they can get their hands on, not just worldwide, but in the US too. They do that to keep us safe.
no they don't do that to keep us safe, that's Unme logic and don't wash in real. The other factor is the timing of the request, if Page was under surveillance since 13, why the hell was he suddenly title 1 material, because that means he was classified as a enemy agent, and if he was that dangerous they would have stepped in sooner. The judge, an obongo shill had statutory duty to vet that request to the nth degree. Is there any wonder the lefty tool recused him self as the sh*t started hitting the fan.
rd, these agencies are powers unto themselves, and data collection is their coinage. You really need to learn more about human motivation
This is the work of Sundance at Conservative Treehouse, which should be basic reading for people who are following and care about this scandal. Sheryl Attkisson has another great column, as does Kim Strassell at the WSJ and Mark Steyn. KS has been all over this from the start and was the first to notice the connection between the dossier and Michael Isikoff's Yahoo article. It's interesting how many women have been at the forefront in digging up the truth.
There is a very important question which no one seems to have asked: when the FBI decided to surveil Carter Page, did they alert Trump to their suspicions that their campaign had been infiltrated by a Russian spy. A Title I authorization is granted only if the subject is considered (not simply suspected of being) an agent of a foreign power. So did they tell him, the candidate of one of the two main parties? Wouldn't it be an obvious thing to do? We know that the answer has to be "no," which in itself is a huge scandal (failure to protect a candidate from foreign agents). But the reason they didn't is because the surveilling of Carter Page was the "insurance policy": they had no interest in CP himself; he was a tool through which Trump and his team could be spied on. This should all be clear to us, but the FBI MUST be asked this question -- a simple one, but the answer would be utterly devastating. Of course, another way to go about it is to ask Trump and his campaign/transition team (Conway, Bannon, Priebus, Trump jr., Kushner etc. etc.).
MJ, exactly. If Carter was such a threat, they would have made a move long before "then"
OH, MJ, women think differently than men, but that doesn't mean they are dumb:-))))
NME, They really need to develop a Font called Sarcasmo. /jk
Here is how it is supposed to work.
https://www.justsecurity.org/38422/aint-easy-fisa-warrant-fbi-agent/
Or they can just lie and cut a few corners if it is important enough for a Democrat Presidential Candidate?
Watergate sent about 40 people to prison, and an ex-President needed to be pardoned. I want every little fawning sycophant, and every corrupt hanger-on thrown in prison for the crimes they committed and the crimes they covered up. I think Trump should be magnanimous and offer pardons to Hill, Bill, and BHO if they agree to truthfully tell everything they know. The Clintons are old and spent; their spawn is not a political future, unlike the Kennedys and Bushes. Being a pardoned disgrace is the worst punishment BHO could ever suffer, and better than making him a jailed martyr.
I am willing to live with the "danger" of destroying any domestic NSA stored database. But... It won't work, because the British GSCHQ will have stored and archived all the domestic US information anyway.
Great points.
Here's the rub for me. Given that we know these FISA warrants can/should only be renewed based on solid information discovered due to the preceeding warrant; what new evidence was put forth about Carter Page that was damning enough to have those warrants renewed three times and yet still not enough to place a charge or even accusation against him?
Here's a great unrolled Twitter thread speculating on Mueller's actual role as SP.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/960397356893011969.html
I confess !! I did it !! I set it all up !!
actually, I confess with all the players and more getting involved, I'm losing track of the story.
complex and intricate. that's how its done eh?
all I do know, from intuition and instinct, this so far is merely the tiny tip of the iceberg. and like all icebergs, we only actually ever get to see what, 5%? no more than 10%.
the howls of outrage the day after the election are still echoing. what will the clintonites claim if she winds up needing a pardon? leniency? will we get another 'whut da fcuk 'appened'?
I am going to reiterate what I posted last night re: Carter Page, patient Zero for the infection of illegal surveillance of Trump and ALL his family, friends, and associates.
Why is Page STILL under investigation? Being SPIED on ?
Stop it. Shut it down ! Shit or get off the pot.
And WHY wasn’t the FISA Court making the CONTINUING surveillance of Page increasingly more difficult to allow ... with each fruitless round of time extension? I call on the FBI to ... LEAK ... all the information they’ve collected on Page. Why not? They LEAK everything else? Let us know why this surveillance has gone on so long?
If you’ve been reading the Conservative Treehouse, you now know that the surveillance of Page was the EXCUSE for collecting a WIDE swath of Trump Associates. And you know that the FISC is supposed to demand MORE evidence with each FISA renewal. So leak the evidence. Come on FBI ... PROVE how our National Security was jeopardized by Mr. Page ... just because he was doing business with Russia (like SHE was).
This ILLEGAL behaviour by our National Security Agencies has caused a sea change in my own personal attitudes toward the suspension of Constitutional rights under the guise of National Security. I used to say that I “trusted” MY government to be responsible and judicious in their collection of data for National Security purposes. Yes, I know all the platitudes about trading freedom for security. Nevertheless, I used to say that ... “I will grant MY government great latitude to keep the homeland SAFE.” But ... WHEN ... I discover MY government has violated my trust, I would withdraw all support for SPYing on Americans. Well ... that time has arrived, thanks to the Leftist misuse of the power granted to them. ENOUGH. Tear it all down. No more FISC. No more UNCONSTITUTIONAL SPYING on Americans. Reinstitute the 4th Amendment in FULL. I’m done with “trusting” my government, because it has become a bureaucratic cesspool of partisans leveraging their job descriptions to destroy political opponents. At first, I “trusted” ... now I have “verified” ... and hence ... it is time to WIPE OUT the Enemy within.
Kate,
I've been following The Last Refuge / Conservative Tree House closely, but I need help - HELP!!!) - with this sentence from the above Tweet:
"The application was denied 3 times prior to the final approval on October 21st."
I have been unable to find any .pdf of sworn testimony that even hints at confirming this statement, which I truly want to believe but can't yet do so. HELP! ...anybody? ... anybody? ... Beuller? ...please point me to a source for that 'statement of fact' OTHER THAN the Tweeter himself. Thanks in advance!
Davers6
"But... It won't work, because the British GSCHQ will have stored and archived all the domestic US information anyway."
You should look up Five Eyes and learn something about the Anglosphere spy network.
I don't know if that's correct either, I believe it was only once.
Interesting read ... “keep your enemies closer”, eh?
Yes I've heard conflicting theories...
One is that Trump has dirt dating back to Benghazi etc and used it to leverage Mueller's cooperation.
The other is what is proposed above. Mueller could be a good guy; fed up with the corruption that unfolded before him.
Either way, and even putting politics aside, watching this unravel is the best living documentary I've ever witnessed in my 45 years.
Stay tuned.
DeMarxists wish we would turn the Page, but it's not going to work, with much more damning misdeeds evidence coming:
"According to knowledgeable sources, the FBI did include references to Page's past as background material in the wiretapping application. It wasn't a big part of the application, but it was a part, and the House committee should have included a sentence on that in the memo. When the FBI went public before the memo's release with the charge that it contained "material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy," the bureau was referring to the Page history omission."
OTOH, the suggestion that Page's history was vitally important seems off base. After conversations with multiple sources, it appears the FISA surveillance application relied on five categories of information: 1) the dossier; 2) a Yahoo News article based mostly on the dossier; 3) the George Papadopoulos case; 4) Page's history; and 5) a general survey of Russian bad deeds."
According to those sources, the dossier made up by far the largest part of the case for wiretapping Page. The Yahoo story was "cited extensively," as well. The Papadopoulos case, Page's history, and the general discussion of Russian ill will made up a much smaller part. So it appears the memo was correct when it described the dossier as an "essential" part of the warrant application. Still, even though Page's history was a relatively small part of the story, the House should have mentioned it, if only to address the FBI's concern about leaving a material fact out of the memo."
So those are some of the objections and questions raised about the House memo. Though repeated loudly and often, they don't have much merit, and the memo's key assertion — that the unverified, oppo-research dossier played an essential role in securing a warrant to wiretap Carter Page — appears sound."
Perhaps the FBI could have included their subscription to National Enquirer in their sources and methods disclosures.
It is fun watch Un-Yun et al lather themselves into a statist state dancing on the head of a pin, ignoring a sledgehammer.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-answering-3-key-questions-about-the-house-memo/article/2648048
The Trump Tower meeting with Donald Jr set up by the the FBI & Fusion GPS, may have played a role in the FISA warrants.
Fusion GPS was representing Russia (Re:Obama ban) and the cordinating Russian Lawyer was invited by Fusion GPS to the FBI sting operation in the Trump Tower. She was not aware of the FBI sting operation...The meeting was wire tapped & released to the WAPO
Why the slow role of Criminal & Civil lawsuits... Yes! Donald Jr was an useless idiot for falling for the sting, but laws were broken and civil liberties violated... Lock them UP
Given that 'unnamed sources' and 'people familiar with the matter' were used to further the entire Russia collusion narrative you'll forgive me for being skeptical about such stories.
Given that I've been in numerous debates questioning the validity of such claims it would hardly feel right using similarly vague suppositions to further my own position.
Not that I'm not onside; just that I'm ready to see actual source testimony and am tiring of the endless speculation.
I have to confess that I have already greatly UNDERestimated the President that I already love. His persona is really like a “Columbo” character ... all bumbling and stumbling on the outside as a cloak for his razor sharp intellect (and strategery) on the inside. No, I don’t ever grant superhero powers to mortal men, however, human intellect DOES fit onto a Bell Curve ... and I suspect MY President is solidly on the minority genius side of the scale.
I am running out of microwave popcorn. I’m thinking of buying one of those big popcorn wagons you see at Carnivals ... and pop massive quantities ! eBay here I come ...
rd: "The NSA has all this information stored electronically going back for years. Everything they can get their hands on, not just worldwide, but in the US too. They do that to keep us safe."
The NSA can cheerfully store information on foreigners (though with considerable limitations on Five-Eyes close allies in the business, that's Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the UK) but anything on US citizens will probably be highly sequestered and contained, with a big perimeter around it to assist the agency in dealing with FISA-based legal actions from US citizens.
rd: "I am willing to live with the 'danger' of destroying any domestic NSA stored database. But... It won't work, because the British GSCHQ will have stored and archived all the domestic US information anyway."
No. Domestic US information will be strictly NOFORN. That would make it illegal for the NSA to share it with GCHQ. And tricky for GCHQ too because of the Five Eyes arrangement.
Unless you're implying the NSA is acting illegally here of course.
Once, and renewed three times.
It's called the Woods Procedures which are required on Type one applications. Louie Gohmert is subpoenaing the FISA court transcripts to prove this was not followed...and he wants heads....potentially inclusive of the Judge himself.
One twitter commenter called going "Title 1" the surveillance equivalent to chain migration. It literally takes the handcuffs off on dirt digging on any associates or contacts present or past. It's like having a secret Special Counsel with the authority to create "dossiers" for media character assassinations, legal investigations, bribery, coercion, etc. Maybe another name for the Deep Swamp is the DC (Democratic Crime) Syndicate.
Donald Trump is the most vetted President ever!!!
He's been vetted by the Obama administration and the FBI.
Trump could offer a deal of sorts. He could go easy on the Democrats if they in turn back legislation allowing the same spying on all D members of the congress and senate.
Once the dust starts to settle, Trump needs to follow up on the Hillary campaign claim that Obama is not native born American. If she's right, Obama could be charged on a relatively minor offence, sent to Kenya and then further charges could be laid, but not necessarily acted on.
I'm not in favour of a lengthy trial and jail term for the Clintons. Bankrupt them and let them live in a trailer park.
"I'm not in favour of a lengthy trial and jail term for the Clintons. Bankrupt them and let them live in a trailer park."
Nobody will believe any of this until there's video of HRC and Obama being waterboarded at Gitmo.
I agree ... return them to their roots. And make it a really luxurious double-wide.
Life in a federal prison seems to me to be more of a deterrent to future criminals than life in a trailer park.
JMO
Getting caught doing what these Democrats have been doing needs to hurt and not just a little bit.
I'm not opposed to prison terms, if their comrades turn on them. If public opinion doesn't firmily lead the way I'm afraid that they become martyrs through MSM reporting of the trial and the left may still win. That's the way I see it now. If Trump can persuade enough Americans, I say show the same level of mercy Hillary showed to Bill's rape victims.
"She (the Russian lawyer) was not aware of the FBI sting operation."
Really?
Did you know she met with Fusion CEO Glenn Simpson before and after the ambush meeting, where was supposed to about the Magintsky Act?
"But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair’s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/07/fusion-gps-official-met-with-russian-operative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html
"I'm afraid that they become martyrs through MSM reporting of the trial and the left may still win."
The only way the Left doesn't win is if the MSM's preferred Presidents, the Clintons and Obama, all end up in peels with life sentences in federal prison.
Anything less and the Left does win.
Not only do they win, they keep on doing the same dirty things they've been doing since before I was born.
They need to be hurt and hurt very badly.