Late night

| 56 Comments

Was up really early; a dog leaving on a jet plane, so this will have to do until I get more coffee, much more.

No one will be talking about much today except the debate. FWIW (not much), here's my take:

Clinton is a politician and her experience showed in the late game. Trump controlled the first half, but he let the attacks get to him in the second. He wasted a lot of time blathering about crap no one cares about. As the adage goes, if you're explaining, you're losing.

As to how it affects anything? No idea. Personally, I was a little more convinced by Trump because he's an amateur on that stage. I didn't expect him to be so, well, reasonable. I expected 'crooked Hillary' and other crap from the nomination battles. It didn't show up.

Trump missed +a lot+ of opportunities, Clinton didn't and that decided the debate.


56 Comments

Trump did well considering....

That's an excuse supporters will try to use to convince themselves of a positive outcome.

It doesn't matter that Holt was biased. It doesn't matter that Hillary didn't have to answer questions about Bengazi, her foundation money, emails, enabling her nymphomaniac husband.

Trump should have been prepped with all of that ahead of time and strategically used it. He wasn't and he didn't.

Anyone who wants to believe no one was swayed by this debate is self deluded.

Trump was very underwhelming and Hillary was prepared and methodical.

I expected more from him. I believe average citizens did too.

Tweeted by some person Ingraham

TRUMP:
0 words on "deplorables"
0 words on Clinton Foundation
0 words on the wall
25 words on Rosie O'Donnell

The doors were wide open. A very interesting post debate interview revealed that Trump was reluctant to attack with Chelsea there. Very telling.

I'm a Trump supporter and I thought it was a disaster for him. (Apparently his family did, too. When they came up on stage afterwards they all looked like they were attending a funeral.) He could've delivered a devastating blow to her candidacy, instead, he let Smugly McFalldown get away with murder. He was clearly unprepared. It was quite frustrating to watch. Having said that, he is a quick study and he changes things that aren't working. I expect him to do much better in the next debate, but will it be enough to overcome this missed opportunity? Or did he permanently scare off all the undecideds?

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Romney win big on the first debate?
It makes sense to me to save your best stuff for last and that's what he did.
Mr Trump is playing the long game and that means peaking on election day.

All reporting on all debates is useless. Hillary zombies will say Hillary won. Trump zombies will say Trump won. I didn't watch. I didn't listen. I didn't follow in any way. You want to waste your lives, carefully parsing every syllable from Trump vs Hillary and her paid employees who were "moderating", go ahead. I will be doing more important things, starimg at the ceiling, or sleeping.

I don't think Trump lost any support as a result of the debate, but he likely did not win any either. If you disliked Hillary before, you still do. She performed well with the rhetoric, but there is little warmth there.

She had a noticeably condescending attitude towards Trump, almost as if she knew that the moderator would be biased in her favour and that the outcome of the debate was already decided.

She was confident because she knew there was a medic and a defibrillator standing by.

I have no doubt that Hillary won a technical victory, but I don't believe she really changed the poll standings. Her performance was like the person who knows all the words to a song but doesn't have a musical bone in her body. She scored lots of debating points but she really didn't persuade.

On the other hand Trump didn't really harm his support, but I don't think he gained any supporter either.

When they were talking about cyber attacks, he should have simply said, "at least when I am President, I won't set up a private web server and make life easy for these attackers, like you did when you were Secretary of State and played fast and loose with top secret, secret and confidential information." Maybe he will be able to get that sort of shot in during the next debate.

And NeverTrump zombies will say he missed alot of opportunities and I will eventually be right about Trump being a loser.

That's true. The other thing about Hillary's performance is that it lacked authenticity. Trump points out that black communities are being victimize by lawlessness -- she chimes in with Liberal talking points about upwardly mobile blacks and their fine churches. Of course there are some blacks who do well,but many are suffering and I thought she came across as pandering. When the deleted email issue came up, she simply apologizes as though this is a trivial matter. I also thought she was off base to call Trump a racist. Getting into the birther stuff was silly -- another chance to call Trump a racist.
Her problem is that she is unlikable, and she remains unlikable. Trump can be a goof, but he is at least genuine.

Lester Holt forgot one thing:

Everybody knows you don't go full Crowley.

https://imgflip.com/i/1bcjh3

Hillary has no charisma, she's actually grating and her smirky smile in the latter parts of the debate did not endear her to anybody.
Trump won.

I am really surprised by the comments here.

Trump won the debate, perhaps not a resounding win, but he won. And the 5 on-line polls I have come across so far this morning all agree (yes, on-line polls are not that accurate, etc. etc. I know)

When you consider that Trump is a complete outsider to the political system then his performance last night is even more impressive.

Hillary came across as smarmy and petty. And that ghastly, smug smile was enough to make me ill. Also note that she repeatedly referred to Trump as "Donald" while he mostly referred to her as "Secretary Clinton". She cannot hide her arrogance.

Most of what Clinton said sounded rehearsed and it surely was. She only wants to win the presidency as a trophy, she has no interest in fixing America. Trump is human. Clinton is not.

I challenge anyone here who has spent their entire life in the private sector to run against a died in the wool corrupt politician like Clinton and see how you do. Trump is putting his neck on the line for his country and I think many people are smart enough to see that.

There are 2 more debates to go. When are people going to learn that Trump is not a fool. There will be nothing left of Hillary by the time the debates are over. Trump was just getting warmed up. I take my hat off to him, the man has guts to do what he is doing.

I'm reminded of a scene from Robert Redford's movie "The Candidate". The TV debate is over and his character didn't follow his rehearsed script. He asks his father, the former governor of California (played by Melvyn Douglas), whether people noticed what he said. The reply is something like "Forget about it. Nobody's going to remember it anyway."

In the next few weeks, few people are going to remember not what Trump and HRC said but how they said it.

I think Trump went into the debate expecting it to be dignified, respectful, and restrained. HRC's objective was to goad him, hoping he'd blow a gasket.

While his self-discipline slipped once in a while, at least his performance was, like you wrote, genuine. She, on the other hand, was like an automaton and irritatingly so. If Trump's comments went past what she was coached (or, perhaps, programmed) to deal with, she, along with the moderator, steered it back, thereby avoiding having to answer any questions that were raised.

Since you commented that HRC is unlikeable, watch this, particularly near the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN0zpwnRRMg

Even the dog doesn't like her.

Any other American citizen that did what she did with government email secrets would be in jail.
Trump should have asked her would she pardon Edward Snowden.
But now she is up on a stage telling me that she plans to raise taxes.
SOS.
Taxes on the rich trickle down to the middle class, and even the poor. It also means more lost jobs, less investment in American industry, more jobs moving to China, Vietnam, India, Ford moving to Mexico, or anywhere else they can build 2 billion dollar plants and use the government Global deals to hire thousands of foreign employees pay them shit salaries, and move away from paying more USA employees, health, social security and pension retirement taxes, and 30 other taxes we never see, land, building, state, local, etc. And who can/could blame them.
Guess what is wrong with the big cities? No freaking jobs. People can't, don't work, so they raise hell and claim the 'Man' is screwing them.
Trump should have mentioned that.

Raising taxes is also another name for investing in Climate Change-Green Energy Bullshit. Destroying Americas coal and gas, and oil industry, She gave several hints and winks to the Lefturd green idiots that have shut down American coal and Nuclear plants to run 1829 windmills and bird roasting solar panels.

My daughter has been undecided, but after hearing Hillary talk about what a great job she and her pervert husband have done for America, NAFTA, WTO, TPP, Iran deals, she plans to vote for Trump.
She and about 90 million other Americans that are working part time and can't find decent jobs are really pissed and Hillary is gonna get crunched like a freaking wall-nut.

President Trump 2017-
Hillary, Bill, Chelsea Clinton Criminal Foundation- Prison 2018.

Bang on BC. Bullseye.

Don't forget what won Slick Willy his election in 1992. Bush the First said "Read my lips--no new taxes" and went back on that.

People are already fed up with having their paycheques and bank accounts pillaged to pay the government money that's often mis-spent and misused. Does HRC seriously believe she'll win by raising taxes?

It also needs to be pointed out that they sabotaged Trump's mic …
the "levels" were lower for Trump in the audience and for viewers …
and those "sniffles" may have come from another source mixed in with Trump's mic …

Remember the Canadian debates?
Remember how they turned down Harper's mic during the debates so that Justin could
shout over-top of him?

The media is totally corrupt

On-line polls are useless. If you visit Drudge or Fox (the right) then Trump crushes Clinton. Over at the Guardian or CNN (the left) then Clinton crushes Trump. The media is a like-minded reinforcing bubble.

Watching most of the debate I felt that Hillary had a slight edge. She showed energy which is surprising for someone recovering from pneumonia. Trump on the other hand missed important opportunities such as not mentioning the Clinton Foundation. He should have switched the debate from his tax returns to the Clinton Foundation but he was just defensive. He did not press enough about change, he only mentioned that Hillary has been in the government for 30 years. He also said some stupid things such as "that is why you've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life". WTF? ISIS arose 5-6 years ago according to Donald a creation of Hillary and Obama foreign policy.

Hillary said Trump paid no federal taxes. Trump countered with that makes him smart. He should have reminded Hillary that business men like him follow the tax law very closely. If that allows them to avoid paying federal tax then it is the fault of the government not the business man. Who pays taxes they don't have too?

Trump also seemed to have trouble breathing. Several times I could hear an annoying sound when he breathed in. This morning someone said his microphone was not working properly.

For his first debate Trump did OK. He did not win. He needs to step it up because he is still behind. He seemed unprepared for the questions. Were they given to the candidates in advance of the debate? If so Trump needs to work more on his game and rely less on his real-time reactions, many of which fell flat.

Being honest I don't think Trump had to do much in the debate since it is Hillary that is losing the election. The pressure was on her to score the knockout punch and she failed to do so even with the help of the moderator.

http://abcnewsgo.co/2016/09/abc-live-poll-who-are-you-voting-for/

When you are in a running battle you don' t fire all your ammunition in the first skirmish. Trump was attacked by the Hillary and the moderator , and he is still standing !

The Usual Smearedia of the Captured Washington Media were spreading the "Hillary Won" screed within seconds of the end of the Joust. It was easy as the post-Debates article were probably written the same time as this one with Hillary in Her "What does It Matter" pose.

Reality is closer to what happened; if the Women are voting for Hillary because it will mean a Woman has finally gained the White House the Women Voters are almost a Century late.

Ms. Clinton was beaten to the winning post by Mrs. Wilson when President Wilson became ill after World War One. She, Mrs. Wilson carried the messages back and forth from the Sick Room and the Democrat Crony Crowd just as the wound up Ms. Clinton carried the Washington Democrat Crony Crowd to the Podium last night.

The much Practiced lessons implanted by Rote and the Focus Group of Facial or is Farcial Expressions to use at "these word usage times" & the Specifically prepared Plastic Face when Mr. Trump was speaking a carefully groomed addition to her hair style and Reublican Friendly Red Frock.

If you want the Same Old; Same Old; Obama White House Ladies you have it this century's version of the message carrier from Bill Clinton's initiated Crony Crowd Carryovers.

The only First Female President you will receive will be the Stale Politics of the 1990's which set-up the Toxic Mortgages Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae were passing out Guarantees of the Sovereign Ordinary Tax-paying American Citizens.

As a kicker, the type of 1990 Foreign Policy decisions or non-actions on Security which led to September 11th, 2001. Y'all know which completely changed the Focus of the White House & Congress until the Toxic Mortgages Fannie Mae, especially, & Freddie Mac Executive Management Bonuses moved these people well into the Life Style of the Hundred Million Dollar beneficent Ranks.

I sometimes wonder if this obvious grasping of Tax-Payers Dollars under the Democrat Congress by Jim Jamison led to the "pay for play" meme of the Clinton Family Foundation

All the pols say Trump won .... they may not be accurate, but when they all agree, I'd say you can take that as a Trump win. He is a newbie to this cesspool, so cut him some slack. He has already performed miracles. He MUST win. Hillary will send up in the same direction as the Borg.

I had a hard time watching that debate, Hillary gives be the heaves. If she wins and since I am already living in Canada, I will have to move further north.

Watched the whole dreadful thing and as a dual citizen I get to vote there. No knockout blows, but all polls I've checked this morning (Time; CNN, MSNBC; Drudge) show Trump winning ...Time and CNN are in no way 'right wing / conservative'. I thought Trump won the first half and Hillary won the second half (but how many people had tuned out by the second half?)

In November nobody remembers what either candidate said in the debate, they remember how you made them feel. After 25 years in the American spotlight one 90 minute debate won't erase the halo of negativity surrounding Hillary. Trump did not say or do anything scary, and his refreshingly feisty, energetic 'agent of change' demeanor came through loud and clear.

Trump won ...and I suspect he will be vastly improved in his next debate, whereas as Hillary's performance is unlikely to get much better.

Even our local dog catcher that ran for animal control office didn't mention that she needed more tax monies to hire more people and build a better shelter until after she won the election.

Hillary doesn't have as much sense as my local animal control officer.

But as you know career politicians are stupid, never created a job and live off the government tax tit.

After her 'jobs and tax plan' drip down to the average Deplorables,
Trump will jump another 5 points.

I guess it is too late to call out Bernie Biden, Joe Sanders or Fauxcahontas Warren??

Kate, while I completely agree with your FWIW ... Trump clearly LOST the (classically, points-rated) Debate ... but WON the Voters. All the post-debate stories are pointing to Trump winning-over voters. He not only demonstrated that he can "appear" Presidential (no personal insults) he won the battle of logic, legitimacy, and emotion. Trump WON ...the people. The people saw through HER thin polished political veneer. The people saw through her platitudes. The people saw through her bureaucratic apparatchik speak. The people saw through her "victimhood". HER woman-card is getting Trumped by voters jaded with such nonsensical pandering. The people do NOT see a multi-millionaire who hasn't driven her own car for 35 years as a "victim" of anything. A "woman" who collects $ hundreds of thousands of dollars in exchange for ???? what ? ... her technical or business prowess ? ... or for HER corruption ? It is obvious to all but the most leftist-leaning Americans. The American people saw through her life of LIES and DECEIT.

Yes ... Trump has lots of room for improvement as a "debater". Yes, perhaps Trump should have prepared more, and rehearsed more for the debate. However, the results show that while Trump WASN'T preparing for the debate ... he was out in the PUBLIC ... connecting with the PEOPLE. Trump wil win on likability alone. Trump RESPECTS the American people ... whereas the imperious Hillary derides the people as "deplorable". Trump is the agent of CHANGE that America needs to survive. We are $ 20 Trillion in debt ... and the PEOPLE will have no choice but to become SLAVES to the State to PAY the tab. Slaves to PAY for Hillary's campaign promises and DEBTS to her "donors". SHE will be living in the lap of luxury, while YOU will be toiling for HER on the Plantation States of America.

Trump WON ... the PEOPLE

Only one (CNN's) of these many snap polls from around the U.S. show Hillary winning. All the rest show Trump winning the debate, including polls by a New York TV station and entertainment industry magazine, Variety, both of which I'd expect to reflect mostly liberal / Democrat voters. So despite the MSM's attempted hustle / spin that "Hillary won" most American's see it for Trump.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3809204/Most-snap-polls-Trump-winning-debate-landslide.html


When she ragged him about slagging that fat commie dike O'Donnel, he should have told her that at least his enemies don't end up dead from suicides with holes in the back of their heads - hell just say it!

Replillary is a murdering lying sociopath who has a pathological distaste for the truth - repeat often - she can't rebutt without getting another dose of truth acid.

Take the gloves off Trump!

Jon ... I LOVE your Hillary as "bad karaoke singer" analogy. You got the tenor of the debate EXACTLY right. In a related story, Kate posted an ABBA video last night ... 😬


Is you petty vanity/ego worth more than watching the world's last free republic fall to global communism? You'd make a fine CINO

Remember, Trump was debating two people.

At about 10:15 am this morning, I tuned into CBC Radio One. There were three persons on the air, two women and one man. I caught an obviously young energetic female voice, absolutely going "over the moon" for Hillary Clinton.
It was just at the tail end of the broadcast, when the question was put as to whom one the debate. The two females gushed that it was Hillary. I was not able to ascertain the male speaker's judgement. He seemed to waffle a little.
I am now long past the stage of becoming highly indignant at CBC. Somehow I chuckled and laughed at my inner thoughts predicting the CBC worthies approach. My guess is that to endorse Donald Trump in anyway on CBC would be a career death knell. Big Brother has arrived. The news people possibly unaware of their lack of freedom.

The pantsuit lives for another day.

You got people killed in Benghazi .... you apparently one day said you supported the Iraq war, despite heated arguments with friends against the invasion.

You're wrong to say Hillary started the birther movement .... Hillary gets a pass on the plethora of lies she told the public this last year.

NO questions on the Clinton Foundation. Instead of searing questions on how could she have been so irresponsible about her emails, Hillary gets to chatter about cybersecurity, while everyone's supposed to forget America's enemies read her top secret emails in real time.

It was a first for Trump and it showed. But this moderator was horrible, most of his questions so utterly mundane, in a debate that had no flow.

Hillary's smirks cancelled out Trump's bungling. I doubt this will move numbers much. The Trump team seemed genuinely pleased. This is the change election eh? No matter, Trump should have done better and seems to have underestimated Hillary.

Hopefully he won't make that mistake again and hold the "moderators" feet to the fire on ignoring Hillary's obvious peccadillos, thinking they can leave it to Trump to bring them so they can run interference for Clinton.

If this is what's to come, smirking Hillary getting a free pass (sound familiar think last federal election), and Donald not seizing his opportunities: "Mr Holt I was against the War in Iraq period, don't tell me what I think, sir - why don't you ask Mrs Clinton about the reckless pullout our of troops that led directly to the formation of ISIS?" - boom, done, force his bias out - not 8 minutes of defensive blathering on crap nobody cares about.

Donald still cares what they think and that is a mistake he cannot repeat if he wants to win.

They're out to get you Donald, don't go into denial like Mr Harper by overestimating the fortitude of the voter to resist free stuff and tolerate mendacity.

What's wrong with me? I watched the debate totally focused on Hillary wondering if she would keel over. Any facial twitch was a precursor for collapse. What's wrong with me?

No one wanted to see more Hillary with more makeup....
Trump won the TV show hands down

The television show called "The Social" is holding forth as I speak.
More and more Hillary support and denigration of Donald Trump. I cannot understand the near hissy fits of these people. After all there is a border between our two countries.

Ha, who "won" is truly arbitrary.

Considering the fact that Trump is a rookie and doesn't have the temperament to be a skilled debater, I thought he did rather well. Hillary is a seasoned pro at thrust and parry and smiling through deceit. She accomplished all that she needed to, she didn't fall over.

Anyways, I have faith in the Donald and his handlers to make appropriate changes for their next meeting.

Trump has proven time and time again, underestimate him at your own peril.

What's interesting about the polls is many of the smaller / local news broadcasters are claiming Hillary won a poll of the debate but then they all reference the same CNN poll. This gives the impression that Hillary won a lot of polls.

Also network ownership is interesting. You might be switching the channel or clicking on / reading a different news paper but it's the same owner, probably the same message.

But I guess we know that.

Trump won. Period. As much as I detest him, give credit where credit is due. It does not matter what devoted Hitlery supporters "think", it does not matte what Trumpets "think". Debates serve to sway the undecided morons in the middle. A huge proportion of undecided voters, who get their political news from Jon Stewart and similar sources, expected a noble pantsuit to slay the reptilian beast. It did not happen. A lot of people actually got their first unfiltered glimpse at Trump as a politician. He was underwhelming, he was meh, just another politician. He was NOT the reptilian beast the MSM promised. Hitlery on he other side was Hitlery with all her traditional appeal of a used up condom on a floor of toilet in a gay bar. That too served as a reminder. Ace has a great summary: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/366042.php

I agree that Trump wasted a lot of time on crap that no one cares about. Like the birther issue, if his tactic is to say "Hillary did it too" then he should have a better rebuttal ready to go. I would suggest he just admit that he has changed his mind and is satisfied that Obama is an American by birth and try to move on. If the biased moderator and HRC doesn't want to leave it at that then he should address the non relevance of this issue by quoting Clinton - "At this point what difference does it make".

What we need is MORE Degrees in the unemployed pool. Education, without the ability to be employed, is a total waste for everybody except the Education System...Should the Students have to go into debt for a worthless degree is another question.....What part of Hillary's Taxation & redistribution plan will create ONE job..

Trump took the advise of the Media & toned down his debate points. Those in the Media are the caricature of those clowns in the Circus who fill in for gaps of dead air..They know how to play a clown...Time for Trump to be Trump

The Question referring to IRS advice regarding Trump releasing his Taxes had a "malicious intent", as displayed by Lester Holt. If Lester Holt had asked 300 Million Americans if "THEY" had the power to Compel, or Prevent Trump from excising his 1st amendment right to free speech. They would all have said NO. What idiot thinks the IRS has/had the "POWER" to compel, or prevent Trump from releasing his Tax returns...Malicious intent is actionable.

JMHO

Dilbert's view. Hillary won the debate, on points, but lost the election, on persuasion:

"Clinton won on points. She had more command of the details and the cleaner answers. Trump did a lot of interrupting and he was defensive. If this were a college debate competition, Clinton would be declared the winner. I call that victory on the 2D chess board. But voters don’t care about facts and debating style. They care about how they feel. So let’s talk about that."

For starters, Trump and Clinton both seemed “presidential” enough. That mattered more for Trump. We haven’t seen him off the teleprompter lately. So Trump passed that test by being sufficiently serious."

Clinton looked (to my eyes) as if she was drugged, tired, sick, or generally unhealthy, even though she was mentally alert and spoke well. But her eyes were telling a different story. She had the look of someone whose doctors had engineered 90 minutes of alertness for her just for the event. If she continues with a light campaign schedule, you should assume my observation is valid, and she wasn’t at 100%."

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151007796236/i-score-the-first-debate

Now's not the time to go all wobbly.

Scott Adams said in his blog today was pretty insightful and comical:

- Clinton won on points…. Trump did a lot of interrupting and he was defensive.

- Clinton’s smile seemed forced, artificial, and frankly creepy. I’m already hearing on Twitter that mentioning a woman’s smile is sexist. I understand the point. But when someone goes full Joker-face and tests the uncanny valley hypothesis at the same time, that’s a bit different from telling a woman to “smile more.”… To be fair, Trump’s physical appearance won’t win him any votes either.

- Clinton won the debate last night. And while she was doing it, Trump won the election. He had one thing to accomplish – being less scary – and he did it.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151007796236/i-score-the-first-debate

Ahead of the next debate, Trump must rest, exercise and prepare for the debate. He held a rally the day before. Not a good move.

OH, wow....Look at this:

Remember that the debate official refused to answer a voter's email, where he was asked if the candidates were banned from using an earpiece?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxzlY3nR4q4

HIllary Clinton was in a plane crash in 2012, according to information just released by Wikileaks.

"Her performance was like the person who knows all the words to a song but doesn't have a musical bone in her body."

Perfect.

She was well rehearsed and bragged about it, and the fact that she got through it and remained vertical won her big points with her Stepford surrogates. She just seems plastic to me.

Why did the Time magazine poll say Trump won according to the votes at the time I checked?

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