It's Carbine Time Again

Yep, posturing for the news reels has been a great pastime at the expense of not a few soldiers...

H&K MG36 5.56 45mm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaWtjRkRZDQ

The machine gun version when you need to put a whole lot of 'hate' downrange...

New German HK121 machine gun full 7.62 NATO rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUtUwmjlJ4

Watch the heat test on the barrel @ 8:13 of the last video

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group 'True North'

If they order the HK416 upgrade on the M4, they should be 'good to go'...

http://olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_specl_ops.php

Heckler & Koch developed a modification of the M4 Carbine, called the HK416. The HK416 uses the HK-proprietary G36 design for its gas piston operating system. The HK416 has been shown in tests to significantly reduce malfunctions and to extend the life of operating parts, making it far more reliable than the M16/M4. The HK416 is used by U.S. special operations troops, including the Army Delta Force who replaced the M4 with the HK416 in 2004. The HK416 is available as a complete carbine or rifle. Alternatively, a 'drop-in' HK416 upper receiver module is available to upgrade M4/M16 type weapons using their existing lower receivers and parts.

For close in combat (10m-30m) ie special ops , the 5.56 will still make you very dead...

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group 'True North'

" It's shameful the U.S. Military uses rifles inferior to those used by the Taliban. "

Great point......The 7.62 x 39 cartridge it shoots is much more powerful than the 5.56 the M4 uses. Dust, dirt and lack of lubrication has little effect on an AK due to it's loose tolerances and fewer parts.

But again as Taliban supporters like to say..... Can't use a superior rifle designed by a commie to fight the Taliban, or Commmies now.....can we Hans. My 7.62 will blow your useless head off before your 5.56 even knows it was a target. And we won't get down to body armor against a puny .22 (5.56) round at any range.

The U.S. Special Forces (SOCOM) community pretty much has the freedom to use the weapons of their choice. The ordinary grunts have to use the leftovers. An H&K 416 upper would be a big improvement on the marginal M4 platform. BTW, the AK47 is based on the German Sturmgehwer (not sure about the spelling) from WWII. So, if the U.S. adopted something based on the AK by way of the Nazis, that would be even ore embarrassing. But I don't give a crap about that- I just want our guys to have stuff that works.

And remember the new Canadian generals first order of business wax not weapons or defence or budget or cutbacks..... No it was harassment including lbg and t

Depends on what tool you need to do the job...

5.56 mm NATO versus 7.62 mm NATO

Benefits of the 5.56 NATO claimed over the 7.62 NATO include equal lethality, half the mass and volume, reduced recoil and signature, better penetration of metal plates, flatter trajectory and shorter time of flight out to 700 meters, weapons chambered for it are lighter, and better hit probability. Hit probability refers to the ability of a soldier to concentrate on firing in spite of their weapon's recoil and noise, which is noticeably different between the two cartridges. The 7.62 NATO has twice the impact energy of the 5.56 NATO which is needed if a target is protected by armor, but if not both rounds normally penetrate through enemies past 600 meters. A 5.56 NATO round fired from a 20 in (510 mm) barrel has a flatter trajectory than a 7.62 NATO round fired from a barrel of equal length, while the 5.56 NATO fired from a 14.5 in (370 mm) barrel has the same trajectory as the 7.62 NATO from a 20 in barrel, as well as the same time of flight. A 7.62 NATO round reaches 50 percent of its velocity within 80 mm (3.1 in) of the barrel when fired, so decreasing the barrel length for close quarters combat results in increased muzzle pressure and greater noise and muzzle flash.[26][34]

Officially designated the Mk318 Mod 0 "Cartridge, Caliber 5.56mm Ball, Carbine, Barrier", and called SOST (Special Operations Science and Technology) ammunition, the 62-grain bullet fragments consistently, even out of a 10.5 in barrel. The lead portion fragments in the first few inches of soft tissue, then the solid copper rear penetrates 18 in of tissue (shown though ballistic gelatin) while tumbling. Out of a 14 in barrel, the Mk318 has a muzzle velocity of 2,925 fps.[37][100]

The design of the bullet was called the Open Tip Match Rear Penetrator (OTMRP). The front of it is an open tip backed up by a lead core, while the rear half is solid brass. When the bullet hits a hard barrier, the front half of the bullet smooshes against the barrier, breaking it so the penetrating half of the bullet can go through and hit the target. With the lead section penetrating the target and the brass section following, it was referred to as a "barrier blind" bullet.[37][100]

Long or short @ 2925 fps you're still going to be dead...

And as noted by markinottawa indeed the Sturmgewehr 44 is the forerunner to the AK47...

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group 'True North'

"The Tavor isn't half the rifle this is and the trigger on those bull pups are the same ones you find on a Bostich nail gun. "

Have you shot one? I did, the trigger is perfectly fine for a service rifle. Not as good as much grade competition rifles but perfectly fine.

Colonista nailed it. It is just a matter of time.

But since the Democrats don't plan on sending soldiers to win any wars...

^ match grade

So, apart for the fact that you are an HK fan boy and react to negative comments about HK exactly like depicted in the article I linked, how does anything I said disagrees with your post?

HK G36 Accuracy Problems Put To The Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2E2Vw--wAM

Yeah, after 20 years in production and 178,000 units delivered they now find it has a heat problem.

Doesn't smell right, maybe the German government looking for a free HK 'warranty upgrade'...and not a little corruption going on for furtherance of competitor contracts.

Makes you go, hmmm...

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group 'True North'

Or maybe the Germans finally noticed the problem when they actually used the G36 in Afghanistan in something resembling combat? As opposed to shooting it on the range in Germany, where 20 or 40 rounds per hour is a "lot" of shooting.

How many times do you think they ever really stress tested their G36 rifles? Especially after the wall fell down, they slashed the Bundeswehr, and we were all going to finally join hands and sing Kumbaya?

I heard the problem is they used a cheap thermoplastic in the fore-end that melts at too low a temperature, and the barrel "droops" or moves around as it softens. ("Value Engineering" is often neither.)

Nein nein nein HK is for uber Teutonic operators only. They never break and if they do it means that the shooter wasn't special epic cool enough to use it properly.

HILARIOUS! RTFM...Read The Farking Manual

Ja, alles klar, nicht war!

Und now vee are all uber epic Teutonic kool

HK G36 used in 40 countries, the Victoria Police Dept. and the British SAS since 2002.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1402602/Army-trials-of-new-SA-80-rifle-were-fudged.html

but senior Army officers and MoD officials are continuing to say the problems were caused by marines not cleaning the rifle properly. Some officers have suggested that the marines deliberately caused the difficulties because they believed they should be treated as special forces and given the G36 rifle used by the SAS.

So the UK's SAS didn't know they had and equipment problem for some 13 years...! :)

Of course the C7 will shoot the bad guys dead too, provided you clean your rifle...

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group 'True North'

.......more like reasons undisclosed, unpublished....and politics.

The Brits, French, Chinese and even the Israeli's have bullpups....The ANZACs adopted the Austria AUG some time back....

One problem bullpups have, because of the long distance tween trigger and sear...they all seem to feature real creepy triggers....

The net result is they are rippers not rifles.....not that much a factor when the opposition uses AK's....and, as a result, is close..real close.

ripper-----submachine gun

Paul said - "And IS more accurate , and spare the garbage about it's reliability in dirt dust and sand it is a precision rifle and requires a bit more maintenance and if you take care of it it will take care of you."

So will a Robinson CXCR-M in .308 and it will support better sighting devices

I'm no fan of the Ruski/Chicom garbage they push the 7.62X39 through, but it is a better round than a .223 for penetration and down range energy.

We can have a match at the homestead silhouette range someday Paul, you with your chattering gopher gun and me with my Camp Perry M14, - say $20 a ram, $5 per Turkey ;-)

Despite the inherent disadvantage that a bullpup imposes on the trigger mechanism, SA80 was much more accurate in the hands of ordinary soldiers than the FAL it replaced. Anticipating this, the British Army's Annual Personal Weapons Test (APWT) for infantry was made more difficult for the introduction of the SA80 system, but when they actually started getting results they had to raise the standard again because the rifle made it even easier than they thought it would. SUSAT, (Sight Unit, Small Arms, Trilux,) the 4x optical sight had a lot to do with this but the lighter recoil of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge was also significant. Firing an SA80 individual weapon prone, unsupported, it is not difficult to hit a head and shoulders size target at 500m. The creepy trigger on a bullpup can be perfectly adequate for a service rifle.

Oh I am no HK fanboy, Colonista.

We need to understand just who Larry is. When he wrote that piece, he and a handful of other bloogers became self-proclaimed cool kids by rejecting the AR15 and embracing the AK. The Mad Ogre did too - and later tried to start a boutique AR15 company that failed. Then he became an expert run n' gun trainer and may or may not enjoy moderate success at that. He runs an AR15 for his three gun work. Tamara K was another - have no idea what she thinks now, she seems to confuse humour with a dull wit and a sharp tongue...But the best of that bunch was Larry The Monster Hunter.

I love Larry but we have to be honest about who he is and why he says what he does. Unlike the others, he is not an idiot. He writes comic books and is really good at it from what I've heard. But back in the day, he made his living selling bargain basement rifles (AK's)to fanboys that read comic books and couldn't afford better gear. His specialty was three-gun competition - an event that was basically designed to allow bargain bin shooters to compete on an equal footing with shooters using high end equipment. The event stresses athletic ability far more than marksmanship. I will be the first to admit that Larry's dumpster guns were very effective in that setting. The battlefield is quite different.

Let us be honest about what the AK is too: the vast majority are made in the third world by low skill/low IQ peasants and slave labour. QA/QC is non-existent. Most will sell for $150.00 US or less. If you bought one from Larry and had problems with it, he would take it back, scavenge and scrap it and give you a new one. Ask him about QA/QC documentation or warranties. He'll probably laugh at you or bluster. Why? What use would comic book fanbois have for such things? If your gun packs it in on the three gun range you are the first to the concession for a burger and a pop. I have no problem with that - if it gets you shooting, go for it and smile. Anything that gets new shooters in the game is a good thing.

The average squaddie doesn't have three guns. He has one. If it fails he and possibly his fellows are dead. Yeah...it might make me a fanboy but so what? Before we put a gun in their hands and send them out to fight - I want to know exactly what materials went into that rifle and assurances and checks to assure that corners have not been cut. I want to be assured that the rifle was assembled by competent armourers and techs - and not some half starved cur trying to make a quota for his bowl of rice at the end of the day. The AK is a good weapon for the monkeys that tend to use it, or the kids to play with on the range - but our professional soldiers need better. End of story, period.

Which brings us to HK. As Larry concedes their quality is second to none. They are expensive. I suspect Larry knows that - but he has his audience and at the end of the day he has to pander to them to make a buck...and they shoot AK's. The guys that actually DO the things Larry's comic book heroes do - parachute into enemy territory, take out objectives and exfiltrate in high risk covert actions - select the HK hands down. You're damn right I take their opinions seriously. Not only do I want the same guns they use, I want the same knives, carabiners, and packs they use. If their gear works for them I know it will work for me on a back country canoe trip after elk. What's wrong with that? Like Hans - I have reservations about the claims of failure on the G36. My HK SL8 was the civie equivalent and that thing ran like a swiss watch even on winter camp trips. My HK .45 USP is the BEST service pistol I have seen anywhere...and truth to tell it wasn't that expensive when compared to the 1911 boutique and BBQ guns. Never had any problems with HK customer service because I have never needed it. I've had that USP for pretty close to 9 years now and have easily dumped 30k worth of rounds through it. She's scuffed and worn but still runs well. Larry is correct when he says they go nuts on product development - but that is a good thing. The Germans INVENTED the assault rifle and I won't be surprised if they invent viable phasers or 40 terawatt particle beam rifles next. And sure they will make many lemons, stinkers and failures along the way...but that is what R&D is.

Long story short - anyone that proposes the AK as a replacement for the M4/M16 - is an idiot. Or - they are trying to stickhandle or sell something to stupid people that should know better. As for HK...they are damn good guns and only the best boutique gun houses can match them. I'm not sure why that offends stupid people but they will do what they will.

Sorry for the novel, but when the crap gets piled this high - sometimes ya need hip waders. :)

that wee gun will be used against civilians in close quarters, no need for any heavier firepower when you know your enemy will not be armed or have less armament.

BiNGO! Since Korea, far too many of the conflicts the US entered have fallen into one of two categories: (a) an inability to achieve a stated objective because of tactical and strategic handcuffing by politicians, or (b) a nebulous, continually morphing objective.

Now, as for the rifles and rounds. The best cartridge the US ever had was the 7.62 NATO round. And the best rifle the Yanks never had was the FN-FAL. ..and the best versions of that rifle were built right here in Canada.