Ici Londres: Fascism and communism: sister ideologies

| 31 Comments

h/t Adrian


31 Comments

Another perspective on this very topic you might find interesting.i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=643&v=JdS6fyUIklI

Daniel Hannan explains the sameness between Communism and Nazism clearly and well. I will be sending this to some of my confused friends.

Very truthful and capsulized reflection of political ideological reality in historic context. There are some subtle economic differences in German fascist socialism and Russian Communism at the state level but at the street level they were identical. In essence both Nazism and communism were totalitarian statism which both placed the totalitarian state above the individual and oppressed populations to do so - the primary difference was that fascism was nationalist focused and communism was a global movement - although in practice whey were both imperialistic and hegemonic and left millions dead in their political cleansing and expansionism.

Both ideologies are the politics & social order of the ant hill.

The similarity between fascism and communist socialism is stark and undeniable to anyone who wants to take more than a tertiary look at these ideologies, so it is an misrepresentation to say "people often confuse the right with Nazism" – there is no confusion to be made in these starkly similar political ideologies – unless the confusion is purposely injected and cultured – and indeed it has been.

It goes back to the Marxists from the infamous school of Frankfurt who fled Europe for America during the war. They were dogmatic fanatical communist intellectual propagandists of the global movement and they ponder ways to, first of all, make Americans accept totalist communism after generations of individual freedom and the affluence that produced.

At the time, America was locked in war with one statist socialist regime from Germany and allied with another statist socialist regime against the German socialists, they concocted the concept of making German national socialism perceived as the oppressor and the murdering communist despotism of Stalin as the champion of the masses – this is where the old “Right wing (fascism) baaaad,,, leftwing socialism (Communism) goooood” mantra we heard chanted on 60s campuses came from – right from the original communist university of propaganda, the Frankfort school, to the campuses of America. The obfuscation between fascism and socialism is an integral part of cultural Marxism’s “critical theory” and it is, at its core, an outgrowth of the great father Vlad Lenin’s cathartic ideal that “a lie told often enough becomes the truth”.

As with the founders of national and global statist socialism, todays “progressive” socialist agenda has the same genetic imprint – elevating the right of the state over the right of the individual and this glaring totality must, of necessity, be camouflaged and the links with past socialist despotism denied and politically cleansed – thus the need to this day for socialists to propagate the lie that Fascism was pure nationalist socialism.


Daniel Hannan was asked what he thought about the notion that Barack Obama had been born in Kenya.

"Pah!" I replied. "Your president was plainly born in Brussels."

This man knows history..

-

Another man that knew history:

"No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices."

-

North Carolina Native, Edward R. Murrow

Thank you Kate,

It is great to visit and support a blog that keeps me sane,
in a world of insanity..

Thank you for this great explanation of how our universities were taken over in the forties and fifties. As I have related here a few times in the past, this explains why my friend and my step-brother had the experiences of having communists in their university teacher training classrooms in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

You will have trouble even getting a leftist to watch this clip. If you do, they will deny what they are hearing and say it's just a bad right wing man saying bad things about good people. They don't teach history anymore, so there is no point of reference for these dummies. They are truly the mindless barbarian horde.

The left is so dumbed down that they don't know shit, they are told who to hate and they do it pretty well.

It's the never-ending battle between those who embrace the rough and tumble world of the individual seeking personal success with its rewards and the weak, seeking the care and shelter of the collective, because it's the path of least resistance and those of the left are weak of mind and spirit.

Good vs Evil

Sometimes Evil wins ... like nowadays. They are indeed, winning.

Starving to death in a gulag camp would feel the same as starving in a Konzentrationslager.

"... they elevate raison d'état over the rule of law ..."

Sure sounds like the Obama team.

The nazis or the communists theres very little diffrence both are for bigger goverment disarming the public and sending disitents to concentration camps or gulags

Trotskyite communism before Stalin was international communism until Stalin's purge of the Trotskyites it then became national Soviet communism under Stalin.
The neoconservatives are Trotskyites.
The goal of the Trotskyites is to bring about a world revolution.

there are far too many words that can be used to describe what ends up as government control of every aspect of a person's life. use whatever ism you like and then add government and you have a totalitarian state.

Bottom line - remove the rights of the individual and it's gov't by decree no matter what you call it. A pyramid scheme.

Thank you, Kate.

This is, by far, the best post you have ever put up since it provides the root cause of much of the agony that most, if not all, of the world's countries are going through right now.

I would also include Islam in this collection of "rule by man". Although it came out of the 7th and 8th centuries, I contend that it is really just another totalitarian form of government but this time with a veneer of religion (i.e., a velvet glove on an iron fist).

I always enjoy posting the following comment on various boards to watch the heads of leftists explode when they mount their high "moral" horse. It sends them into apoplexy and they start barfing up nonsense from their Marxist social "science" professors.....

Hitler was named "Man of the Year" in 1938 by Time Magazine. They noted Hitler's anti-capitalistic economic policies:

"Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany's bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism."

(Source: Time Magazine; January 2, 1939.)

The question of the difference between communism and nazism was often raised during WWII. Many businessmen in Germany would answer this question with an anecdote which was apparently very popular among them. It talks of two peasants who did not understand the difference between Bolshevism and National Socialism. One of them asked the other his opinion on the matter. The answer was:

"Under Bolshevism all your cows will be taken away from you because you are a kulak. Under National Socialism you are allowed to keep the cows; but the State takes all the milk, and you have the expense and labor of feeding them."

The two "isms" are exactly the same in that the State comes first and the citizens are tools of and for the State. Totalitarians.

From Patrick Leigh Fermor's A Time Of Gifts (where he is hiking in pre-WWII Germany that is already under Hitler's control).

Fermor meets a group in a "Workmen's bar" and is offered a cot for the night in a room that turns out to be a "Shrine of Hitleriana".........I have transposed some of the subsequent conversation here:

"You should have seen it last year! You would have laughed! Then it was all red flags, stars, hammers and sickles, pictures of Lenin and Stalin and Workers of the World, Unite! I used to punch the heads of anyone singing the Horst Wessel Lied! It was all the Red Flag and the International then! I wasn't only a Sozi, but a Kommi, ein echter Bolschewik!" He gave a clenched fist salute. "You should have seen me! Street fights! We used to beat the hell out of the Nazis, and they beat the hell out of us. We laughed ourselves silly - Man hat sich totgelacht. Then suddenly, when Hitler came to power, I understood it was all nonsense and lies. I realized Adolf was the man for me. All of a sudden!" He snapped his fingers in the air. "And here I am!"

What about his old pals, I asked. "They changed too! - all those chaps in the bar. Every single one! They're all in the S.A. now." Had a lot of people done the same then? A lot? His eyes opened wide. "Millions! I tell you, I was astonished how easily they all changed sides!"

The Conservatives in Germany were the monarchists.

There is some reason to be critical that "- the primary difference was that fascism was nationalist focused and communism was a global movement -Soviets were international '.

The Russians still refer to the "Great Patriotic War"....a concept and label from Stalin's pragmatic war time policies.

The Germans were fighting for the Fatherland (Germany) and the Russian Reds were fighting for "Mother Russia".

Well said.

"The two "isms" are exactly the same in that the State comes first and the citizens are tools of and for the State. Totalitarians."

Now take out the word "state" and replace it with "UN". Take out the evils of capitalism and replace it with climate change and the new world order under socialism stands naked for all to see. The UN with its many tentacles such as the IMF, WHO, IPCC,Agenda 21, world courts,etc and clear socialist policies is firmly established to remove the last remaining vestige of freedom from the modern Kulak. Socialism was never defeated. It just went dormant and fed on our education system until all the stars aligned. Obama was the last alignment to move into position. In the words of the great Pogo, "we have met the enemy,and it is us". Useful idiots once again control the direction of the future. The "hope and change" was never meant for us. It was for the people that hate everything we stand for. Namely the liberals and the left. The socialists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JGUT62Bhvo

Nemo2, I loved that book, "A Time of Gifts", and the second volume "Between the Woods and the Water", the greatest travel book ever written (in my opinion), an 18-year-old from London, penniless, walks off to Europe in the middle of winter and proceeds to have the most wonderful journey imaginable, it almost reminds me of the Lord of the Rings, a trip through an old world that was about to be crushed, destroyed and erased. The writer, Fermor, had an amazing WW2 as a special forces soldier, the story of his kidnapping a German general in Crete is like a Hollywood adventure movie. Now, to get to the point, in your quote, we know what happened to all those German communists who so smoothly switched to National Socialism, as soon as their useful idiot value was over they were all purged and slaughtered. ("In the Garden of Beasts" is a good book about that time.)

I ain't worried about dead dictators, I'm worried about our current leadership, if that's the right word (Obama, Juncker, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron, Harper)who'll hapily sell us down the river to warmists, greens, windfarmers,solar power opersators.

Oddly, many otherwise "learned" Euros (Brits notably)still consider Nazism to be "far right". Many have no concept of where North America (well, the US) sees the centre as being. Its particularly discomforting when you consider the UK in that perverse view. But then, UK has never not been ruled by an authoritarian state - first a succession of monarchies, a brief period of semi-democracy with parliament, but with the landed gentry, the house of lords, still aligned with the monarchial court, and now Eurovision (not the media empire).

It's been some time since I read "A Time of Gifts", and I've been watching (unfortunately our local library doesn't carry them) for his other works.

Yes, 'useful idiots' are quickly disposed of once their (transient) value is exhausted.

For those interested in Patrick Leigh Fermor's books, go to ABEbooks and plug in the author's name. They have quite a selection of different titles.

National Socialist Party nahh could not be socialists.
Never .They must have been righteous right wing capitalists , that is why they had to exterminate their Jews… Right?
We live at or near peak stupid, for propaganda only works on lazy ill-informed voters.
But never mind the ISM, they are always the same people who seek to manipulate and control the rest of humanity.
Frightened, fear crazed near mindless minions.
For if they did not rule, why other people would do to them what they fantasize about doing to others.
You have to be insane to believe that you can organize other peoples lives, work effort and thinking better than they can.
history and current society show we breed no shortage of these crazies.
Notice one thing about them?
That they all seek to live by feasting upon other peoples effort.
Career parasites, do-gooders, planet saviours administrative "experts."
If we chose to limit the welfare state most of these creatures would starve.
As Chairman Moa said, the capitalist will sell us the rope with which we hang them, we pay Danegeld to the fools and bandits who actively seek to destroy the productive aspects of our society.
Just ask our NDP' We must give those on welfare generous handouts or they will take what they "need" by force."
Rather defines how the NPD views citizens who contribute to civil society.

Just a slight correction......the 'capitalists/rope' quote is attributed to Lenin rather than Mao.

Mao also had a rope analogy.

"U.S. imperialism invaded China's territory of Taiwan and has occupied it for the past nine years. A short while ago it sent its armed forces to invade and occupy Lebanon. The United States has set up hundreds of military bases in many countries all over the world. China's territory of Taiwan, Lebanon and all military bases of the United States on foreign soil are so many nooses round the neck of U.S. imperialism. The nooses have been fashioned by the Americans themselves and by nobody else, and it is they themselves who have put these nooses round their own necks, handing the ends of the ropes to the Chinese people, the peoples of the Arab countries and all the peoples of the world who love peace and oppose aggression. The longer the U.S. aggressors remain in those places, the tighter the nooses round their necks will become.

Speech at the Supreme State Conference (September 8, 1958)."

Exactly.

Joey @ 12:25, that was a great old Time news item to present here.

Nemo2 @ 1:09, And then changed back into communists as Stazi operatives after May 1945. Many of the low level Hungarian Arrow Cross operatives were offered employment and made the transition to the Hungarian Socialist Worker's Party AVO secret police after Hungary fell to the Russians.

Further information, but the transition from Arrow Cross to AVO is not mentioned. The transition is discussed in a display in the museum which I read in 2013.

http://www.dw.de/house-of-terror-explores-hungarian-secret-police-methods
/a-4834253

Also, a sub-link on this page talks about former Stazi operatives working in the German government today.

One of the things that seems to have been forgotten in this argument
is that Soviet socialism was supposed to be a transitional phase
towards the ultimate goal of an impossible communist utopia. I
believe that Ayn Rand got this concept right, that the type of
government the Soviet citizens lived under for nearly 3/4 of a century
was neither communism or socialism, but a most brutal form of fascism.

Even the most evil societies have laws against murder, robbery and rape.
What makes a society unjust is not the written rule of law, but the fear
of your door being kicked in at 3:00 AM, being dragged to NKVD head-
quarters and never knowing why you were arrested. This is the aspect
of both systems that was the most alike.

Here is the dirty little secret: This is EXACTLY the way Karl Marx
designed it! If you place all power into the hands of a few elites
and subordinate all individual liberty to some almost mythical
"Greater good," what kind of outcome did you expect?

The difference between then and now is that the liberal political
elites have no illusions about the system they are promoting. When
liberals are calling for AGW skeptics to be put to death and Hanoi
Ted Turner has openly called for the extermination of 9/10 of
humanity, Hillary Clinton and pRESIDENT Obonzo cannot use the
worn out excuse that the only reason it failed is that the
"Right people have not tried it yet."

No, even the brain-dead Gabby Giffords, Al Gore, Marie Harf and
John Kerry are aware of the death camps, gulags, purges, mass
murders, genocide and terror famines. Once in a while, a Democrat
will slip up and make a truthful statement like Maxine Waters
who called for the nationalization of the oil companies. You cannot
claim to have learned from the past when the socialized medical
system that bears your name has death panels written into the law!


Well said.

Yes, Marx saw socialism as essentially global, and antithetical to the existence of nations and national states. Mussolini saw socialism as produced and justified by the existence of the nation. Each was a socialist, in the sense that their system was geared to rule in the interest of the socially dominant classes (as distinct from, say, the economically dominant). There was a further difference, essentially a disagreement over the facts of social life, in that communism considered that the industrial working class was inevitably and necessarily the dominant class in whose interest government should operate. (Arguably the industrial working class didn't do too badly under communism, it was the bourgeoisie, then the farmers and then the peasants who were the targets of the slaughter.) Mussolini considered the industrial working class to be a special interest group and governed in the interests of the larger nation, and especially the economically marginal classes (who, let's remember, can become numerically dominant during a depression). Hitler varied the idea by declaring the German nation in the strictest biological sense to be the necessarily dominant class. But they all followed the same basic model.

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  • ebt: Yes, Marx saw socialism as essentially global, and antithetical to read more
  • Ken (Kulak): Well said. read more
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  • Nemo2: Just a slight correction......the 'capitalists/rope' quote is attributed to Lenin read more
  • john robertson: National Socialist Party nahh could not be socialists. Never .They read more
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