"This was the clarion call of presidential leadership. People the world over are looking to our president for a sign that we are committed to the fight. What must they think today?"
I'm not by any stretch a religious person. I was raised Christian, "sang" in the choir, was forced to go on Sunday but would have preferred to sleep, etc. I'm sure many relate.
I have been losing my enthusiasim for our southern neighbours for quite some time now. Canada more than fullfilled our commitments for the Afghanistan conflict. We were militarily involved in Iraq but not "politically" involved. This is correct, we're not the US. We do not have the military to compare to the US.
But, now we're in Iraq. We're part of the coalition against ISIL. We need a commitment to carry on. That would be leadership.
That is what has been lacking. Jordan looks like they may go all in, but that may wane. Saudi is a more than likely a "bit" concerned about their southern border and then there is the Sunni/Shai kerfluffle to mix it all up.
Someone needs to be the leader.
Someone needs to work on cleaning up the mess that the US left when "smart diplomacy" wouldn't get a standing force agreement.
Is that Canada? Could we do it if the US won't?
As an American, I too have been losing enthusiasm for my country. I have also been losing enthusiasm for the countries of my Canadian and European friends for about the same time. Many of us here have known since he first came on the scene as to how emotionally immature, and intellectually inexperienced this rock star of a president is. Yet, even as he has stumbled down the path of destroying US leadership and creating a dangerous void into which other more destructive forces have gladly filled, I keep hearing from those friends how great he is. Almost all of them think I am crazy at not being thrilled up my legs over having Glorious Leader at the helm. While at the same time, the Glorious One has taken encouragement from the support he receives from abroad. I fear it is going to take nothing short of another great conflict for people to wake up from their pop culture coma.
Sorry to say but I rank Obama with presidents like Jimmy Carter. Americans had the opportunity to rid themselves of this fellow but did not. It suggests there is a constituency of voters he appeals to. Up here in Canada we had decades of the same thing when we elected a closet communist names Trudeau. Such people appeal because they use greed and envy as the their greatest tools.
Fighting in Iraq? Not interested that Canada participates unless I see Arabs troops on the ground doing the fighting. Canada fought in Bosnia, Libya, Iraq and Afganistan. Being Saudi proxies does not appeal to me. The Saudis finance world Islam, the same Islam that preaches hate for all non believers. It is Saudi actions that is decimating the Canadian oil industry. Nope, not interested. Let the hordes take down the Saudis instead.
We couldn't have ever won WWII without the Yankees, but that didn't stop Canada from doing what had to be done at the time and entering the war 1st.
The USA has no choice but to participate in this most recent battle against the spread of radical Islam, it is simply a matter of time and the appropriate catalyst, such as an attack on US soil. Obama and his chickenshit regime can't keep their heads in the sand forever.
At least I am confident our current PM respects the limits of our military but also has the confidence they will professionally perform any task he gives them.
Unfortunately most Canadians think Obama is wonderful even though he has hurt Canada through Keystone and is a terrible leader.
"Obama and his chickenshit regime can't keep their heads in the sand forever."
Dunno about that. The old cartoon about the ostrich shows its big arse sticking up in the air - and it invariably pulls its head out when someone gives its arse a kick.
But Obammy and his crew aren't ostriches - they're moles; completely buried with no arse sticking up to kick.
"Someone needs to work on cleaning up the mess that the US left when "smart diplomacy" wouldn't get a standing force agreement."
and there folks is the crux of the problem, no not the mess, that very statement. Yes obumbles should have negotiated a standing force, but it was France, Britain, and more recently Germany , the USA and the likes of Russia and Chine that created the mess. If you can't understand the problem you can't craft a solution or be well enough informed to vote for a leader that will "fix" the mess.
it's the LIVs we need to worry about
NME666, you are dead wrong. There is no historical issue here. This is not a question of the drawing of international borders after WW 1. This is not a question of anything other than a murderous culture seeking to dominate the world.
ISIS doesn't say that they need to punish France/Britain/Germany/USA or any other individual country. They say that Islam must dominate the world. That is their credo, and they are fanatical in their pursuit of that credo.
We must take them at their word.
If your argument is that ISIS is just misunderstood and we must look deeper, then just peddle that garbage somewhere else. If that is not your point, please accept my apology.
Our job, our calling, is to resist said credo.
Obama did say that he would fundamentally change the US. Most people did not understand that he meant he would attempt to destroy everything the US has ever stood for.
"Is that Canada? Could we do it if the US won't?" The short answer is no. We do not have the military infrastructure nor financial capability. We also do not have enough political will. While we currently have a leader that is strong enough to want to help with the leadership, we do have a significant segment of our citizenry, exemplified bu Trudeau and Mulcair, that has been brainwashed enough by leftists to think that accommodating ISIS and singing kumbaya will bring peace.
Autoguy, you are both right and wrong. NME666 is right in that the seeds of radical Islam and the Intifada began in Paris 1919, as well as, and this is a major factor, Kemal Attaturk's destruction of the Ottoman Caliphate and his attempt to bring Turkey into a western mold. Radical Islam has now progressed into wanting to take over the world and most of western leaders have not yet realized this.
NME666, "it's the LIVs we need to worry about". Exactly, and this is the work of the white feather leftist media that is in league with politicians who prefer a statist society.
I actually would like to see the Saudis fall as they are trying to subtely undermine our society and our resource development.
On the other hand we need "moderate" Mulsim to lead the charge to destroy ISIS.
Disagree Lance. Not about the absence of leadership but about our current level of involvement. Afghanistan should have taught us that it is not worth setting a single boot on the ground, let alone spilling our soldiers blood. Yes, the US left a mess behind; a foolishly naive attempt to nation build/democratize a society with no concept or will to do so. If they wanted what we think every society aspires to wouldn't they have made any progress over the last millennium in that regard? This would be evolution, and they clearly don't to, or can't, evolve. And we've seen the results of trying to coerce them into evolving: wasted money deaths, all in vain.
The answer, Ms. McMillan, of course is "YES". It is amazing how much a single person of will and intelligence can accomplish.
Per contra, the US has the largest military in the world, with the most advanced weapons, and it is ineffective.
CT, I always figured we supported the wrong side in Bosnia.
....But, now we're in Iraq. We're part of the coalition against ISIL. We need a commitment to carry on. That would be leadership....
Sorry, no..no way. I've served since 90' first in the Regular Force now in the Reserves. I have no desire to fight and risk life and limb in that sandpit just to see it handed back to the madmen a few years later.
We sent our troops into Afghanistan... lost many and damaged many more and for what? We pull out and turn it back to the barbarians. Eventually they will get it back...unless you're willing to keep us there forever.
No, no way.
Lance, why are you so invested in fighting wars for the Persians and the Arabs? Let Tehran, Riyadh and their various clients from Baghdad to Damascus fight their own damn wars. Not one of the countries involved is an ally. Iran is the West's enemy in the region. Syria and Iraq are little more than Iranian proxy states. The Turks are dreaming of re-establishing the Ottoman empire. The Arab countries export virulently anti-Western Islam and terrorism.
You would think that fighting a war that puts us on the same side as our long-term strategic enemy in the region (Iran) would give people like Lance pause for thought but for the interventionists, there is no thought of tomorrow, only today.
The various groups in this region have been fighting each other for 7,000 years and will be fighting 7,000 years from now. Eventually, they battle to some kind of equilibrium and take a pause before the next set of wars. Let them have at it. Hopefully this latest war lasts for 25 years.
The successful PR campaign that the Saudi's use never ceases to amaze me. It has both the USA and Canada as allies. Yet, the Saudis get away with executions that are no different than ISIL. The Saudis backed the insurrection in Syria which ultimately allowed ISIL to get a foothold. Now the expectation is that we send our military there to stop ISIL. Not only do we bear the cost of injury and death but we pay for it. If we are there at the biding of the Saudis then should we not demand payment like all mercenaries do?
So far so good for the Saudis. They have us fighting for them while they submarine our oil industry. I guess funding eco groups in Canada wasn't fast enough so now they simply cut the oil price lower than production costs. The funding of eco groups whose sole purpose is to influence internal Canadian politics is a threat to national security. Apparently the Harper government does not care enough to actually call the Saudis out or to pull our forces from the ME. Pull them out and restructure the Canadian military to their most important mission which would be defense of the Canadian North. We spend billions in the ME as the Russians deploy and enhanced military capability in their north.
Again I decry the misplaced priorities and lack of awareness by Canadians of 'real' Canadian issues.
"Someone needs to work on cleaning up the mess that the US left when "smart diplomacy" wouldn't get a standing force agreement. Is that Canada? Could we do it if the US won't?"
Here's a question to consider. Could Canada do it?
We're the same population and industrialization as Denmark. Could Denmark do it?
We have roughly the same international reputation as Denmark. Nice people, nice clean country, pay their bills on time. Could Denmark create and lead a "coalition of the willing" to kick ISIS @ss in Iraq?
If Canadians were willing to equip 100,000+ men with all the modern war fighting kit available, from tanks to ships and aircraft, to train them within an inch of their lives, and then send them off to do war on the Mooslimbs without any of the "hearts and minds" BS the Americans have been fiddling about with these last 14 years. Wild blue sky guess, it would probably cost $500 billion bucks, as a nice round number. We would need an aircraft carrier, they cost $12 billion each.
Then, -maybe-. Maybe your army would be big enough and scary enough, and maybe that level of commitment would convince the Germans and the French to stop screwing around.
Our current military is ~60,000 people all up. Most of whom are desk pilots. Actual pointy-end guys is closer to 7,000 at a rough guess.
In order to do as Lance suggests, Canadians would have to pretty much give up all the social welfare cr@p and the CBC and Indian Affairs and Ministry of the Environment and allllll that peace-love-dove BS that the Liberals have built up over the last 70 years. The money would go to buy war material and training, and it would have to be torn from the grasping sticky hands of a million bureaucrats and ward heelers from the federal level all the way down to town councils.
Liberals would have to fear for their very lives before that could happen.
Next question, what would make a semi-retarded Liberal voter in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver fear for his life so bad he'd throw off an entire lifetime of peacenik goodness, embrace militarism and send his kids off to die in the desert?
Kate's not wrong, y'know. It would take a famine. Or the loss of a major city to a massive NBC terror attack. Or an invasion by Russia or China. We know 3000 innocent people killed in one day won't do it, they already did that and the liberals are going harder Left than ever.
So as a practical matter, no. Canada can't do it without a fundamental shift in national character. Our whole friggin' country would have to get mugged. THEN we could do it.
Not worth it just to wax some terrorists, you ask me.
And while we debate how much blood and treasure to risk in the endless vortex of Islamic wasteland conflict, the SCOC has allowed the enslaved female Islamic immigrants to continue wearing their body bags while swearing-in. The Saudis and Iranians are winning and the West is losing. Spend the big bucks on the Jihad where it doesn't matter while importing the pathology under the cover of PC denial. The only major difference between the Saudis and ISIS is that the later doesn't use the friendly happy-faced taqqiya while engaged in Jihad. The Saudis also try to keep the real ugly bits at home, for now.
If Harper wins another majority, maybe. Otherwise, not a chance. There's nobody in Ottawa with the strength to stand up to the Islamists.
We are our own worst enemies! As a lot of commentators here have identified the weakness of America as being the problem it would behoove them to reach back into Canadian history and see that we Canadians, have allowed "Fifth Columnists" to subvert our position in the world. The ongoing problems in the Mid-East did not start in the Twentieth Century but we in the West have fostered and incubated the present problem. Canadians especially are a major cause of this present situation. Canada at the end of WWII was a major power in the world but successive majority liberal governments have reduced our status by propagating the lie that we are a nation of "peace keepers". Before you can keep the peace you must make peace and to do that you either have to enforce it on your terms or submit to it on 'their' terms. There is no middle ground. If you don't understand this, and liberals and dippers don't, then you are a major part of the present problem.
When you have a president who firmly believes fighting climate change is a greater imperative than dealing with worldwide Islamist military violence and totalitarianism, how is effective leadership even possible? While the truth is neither will defeat our freedom, we can see where his mind is. His prayer breakfast comments also show his addled view that the West is responsible for all hardship in the world so we have it coming when violence happens, which fits his childish worldview. His recent VOX interview is strong evidence of his intellectual laziness which he highlights with his view of the Crusades vrs present Muslim violence, not understanding the basic history of it, that both involve Muslim aggression.
Besides doing our bit for collective security I will never favour boots on the ground regimental plus sized combat units in Iraq or Syria. We need to stomp Islamist criminals wherever, whenever possible and we will do so despite the best efforts of our "intelligentsia" to undermine present security efforts. Let the Arab nations &/or Europe sort it out and do any necessary heavy lifting; they're the ones who have oil interests there.
Someone needs to be the leader.
Someone needs to work on cleaning up the mess that the US left when "smart diplomacy" wouldn't get a standing force agreement.
Is that Canada? Could we do it if the US won't?
You can't be serious. You might as well have said New Zealand. Neither nation has the ability to clean up "the mess" even if they wanted to, which they don't. Even most Americans don't care much about it and they were the ones attacked in 2001. This was demonstrated when they twice elected Obama, one of whose main promises was to withdraw from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, whatever the consequences.
Without US involvement we cannot lead any coalition against the Islamists in Iraq or Afghanistan either politically or militarily. To think we can is unrealistic. What is happening there is terrible but there's not much we can do about it unless our allies wake up to the Islamic threat themselves.
This isn't the 1940s. The US is a nation in serious decline, as we are also. We are in for some difficult times, both globally and locally. I hope I'm wrong about this. I like peace and prosperity as well at the next guy, but this doesn't look promising.
"...we Canadians, have allowed ..."
Indeed. And the right - sitting back and doing nothing except maybe bellyaching on blogs - is just as responsible as the fools on the left. Nobody gets angry, nobody takes action. I wish I had a hundred bucks for every time I heard "Oh well, what can you do...".
And it's the same across the border. DC should be plugged tight with ordinary working folks demanding the removal of Jughead and his crew off crooks. Instead, everybody's busy with the real important stuff: talking about the Superbowl ads and Miley's foo-foo.
I've seen a couple of references to Kate here but she didn't write this.
The only way we, meaning Canada, could clean up the middle East would be to manufacture nuclear weapons, and ICBMs to deliver them, and turn Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia into a glass parking lot. That'd be a start, at any rate.
Lots of nice high-paying jobs in the weapons plants, too.
You're correct we on the right are just as responsible as the fools on the left because while we have been working to raise families and pay taxes the "Fifth Columnists" have been brainwashing us with PC'ness and have wormed themselves into our schools and universities and inoculated our children with their biases and slant. Now that the internet has started to become a threat through blog sites like this they are trying to shut it down. We are reaching a boiling point and the results will not be pretty. Canadians have never had a war on Canadian soil, and it's been a long time since the American Civil War, but the effort that has been expounded by their present administration to separate, segregate, and divide them and the media's collaboration in this will cause an upheaval the likes we've never seen.
'I wish I had a hundred bucks for every time I heard "Oh well, what can you do...".
You're about to hear it again. I have been active in trying to get politicians to wake up to the dangers of Islam right here in Canader, but the pols are not listening,insist Muslims will assimilate "just like the Italians". My local MP writes me off as just another old curmudgeon who won't "get with the times".
Muslims are the New Irish or Italians.Really.Ask any liberal or politician running for office.
We are possibly about to elect a man to the PM's Office who owes the Muslim community big time for his election,so the atmosphere for Islam alarmists or global warming deniers is about to get very frosty,maybe to the point of a person being incarcerated for hate speech for saying anything.
SO,what CAN you do? Take a gun and shoot some Muslims like that nutcase in North Carolina,and be imprisoned for the rest of your life?
As I have said before, we lack Leaders. Every revolution,violent or otherwise, MUST have a Leader. It isn't me,I know my limitations,I'm no Mao Tse Tung or Ho Chi Minh,is it you?
Most of my friends are old timers, as am I, most of us can barely drive or climb two flights of stairs,let alone lead a revolution,and the young people from where the dissatisfaction should arise,are quite satisfied to play their video games or get their college degree so they can apply for a nice government job and cruise for the rest of their lives.
We as a society, have "evolved" into a weak, disinterested bunch of fatcats,more interested in toys than any concept of freedom.
We are easily led by charlatans who hire competent PR firms and we are easily dazzled by appearances, while we worship at the shrine of glamour.
We know nothing of history,except that WE were the bad guys, and we owe everyone who isn't US a big apology, and our children are inculcated with these beliefs from kindergarten to university, with no room for critical thinking allowed.
So, "what CAN you do"? If you ever figure it out, please,please let me know,I'll be glad to participate.
Now,as to Lance's post: NO, we couldn't do it, and we don't have any allies,except Israel,who would join us in the fight. We are a fourth rate power militarily, our last moment of true glory ended in 1945, and that generation is dead.
Since WW 2, the West has been led by the USA and our governments gladly handed that authority to them rather than take on the onerous task themselves. Now the USA isn't interested, so we are stuck in this mire.
Obama will give us an entire world we won't recognize, in about fifty years,by which time we will have fully capitulated, unless a "savior" arrives, and I don't expect that.
unless a "savior" arrives
At the risk of going off topic here Don, I think you're on to something. He is going to arrive but not yet, not in our lifetimes anyway.
Until then we need to support those leaders who have a little common sense, Harper for example. Sometimes we will have to endure the hopelessly clueless, like the young 'heir apparent' who is waiting in the wings, and hope and pray for someone better. Canada doesn't seem to be developing the wiser, more sensible populace needed to elect a better leader, so may God help us.
"So, "what CAN you do"? If you ever figure it out, please,please let me know,I'll be glad to participate."
Nothing, Don, nothing. We tried for 7 or 8 years with the Landowner movement to get people off their arses, to engage in peaceful protest and disruption. On those occasions where we did manage to get tractors on the highway or blockades around government buildings, it became quickly apparent that the majority of people in the parade were not concerned about the erosion of rights or the rotten way governments were treating people. No Sir, most of them were there because they saw the movement as an opportunity to advance their own concerns and they were quickly bought off with the promise of government cheques.
You can't even get the average Canadian to write a letter to his MP or MPP saying, "Hey, if you don't smarten up on issue "X", I'm not voting for you, neither is my family, and I'm going to tear you a new one at the next candidate's debate".
At the heart of it all is a terrible mixture of yellowness and selfishness: a total lack of care or concern about anyone else - including future generations.
Personally, I like the "kiss" program. Let them all kill each other off and if we feel like it we can talk to the winners, although we shouldn't bother. Give Israel all the weapons they ask for, defensive and offensive and wish them luck. Tell Iran that the first mushroom cloud produced by their peaceful energy plan will guarantee their country being turned into a parking lot, and follow through with no notice. Let's take our toys and go home. Kill anyone that tries to follow us and once we're home lets deport anyone that advocates or practices Sharia law. Cut all foreign aid to the entire middle east and wish them luck too. They have never shown appreciation for any of it. Sunni,Shia, Kurds and pretty well all Muslims, they hate us anyway, so give them their wish and do ourselves a favor. There's nothing there that we need and where Europe gets its oil is not our problem. That's it. As simple or complicated as we want to make it.
Don Morris;
I sympathize with your point of view.
My last kick at the cat was the Reform movement. We had our riding association up to 1750 members when I left. Never saw numbers like that before or since when it was the old PC party. We were fighting for grass roots involvement which means citizen responsibility for decisions made. It is incumbent on citizenry to be informed so that the decisions they make are right. It is so easy for people to shrug their shoulders as special interest on the left and right plunder.
The core of those that started Reform were mostly older people who had a greater context to judge what values are important. This generation is passing on. My kids are somewhat apolitical but do have a conservative nature even if they do not realize it. My biggest issue is the inability of so many for 'critical thought'. Not possessing skills to arrive at a thoughtful position simply makes those who promote subjective thoughts more successful.
I stuck with Reform even after Manning took it east. Westerners should know what was inevitable. I left the CPC when our elected MP would not support 'riding development', thought it would burn the troops out. Riding development meant focusing on poll areas where we had not done well and by continuing to dialogue with members and the public. Our MP and most of our Board thought our role should simply be to receive monthly reports by the MP from Ottawa. I pretty much consider my 11 or 12 years of active participation largely a waste of time.
Sorry, but as a nitpicking Dane, we are not the same population and industrialization.
Canada 34,834,841 GDP 1,518 bil. Danmark 5,569,077 GDP 211 bil.
No.
Just being willing to lead is not enough.
Our country entirely lacks the strategic and operational command, control and communications structures and logistic capabilities to head up any coalition.
As a staff officer once said at a meeting in NDHQ when we were looking at Chrétien's "Rumble in da Jungle": "Being the lead nation means more than just bringing the nameplates of the commander and his staff to the table."
I have worked all the elections from Reform onwards federal and provincial, now with CPC MP John Carmichael in Don Valley West. As John told me all the members of each caucus experienced the terror of hearing shots fired in the Parliament. This was their baptism of fire and I had hoped it would open the other parties to the incredible danger of islam. As my RCMP buddy noted they will quietly go back to sleep and they have.
Tarek Fatah wrote In the Sun that all muslim prayers contain the words, defeat the infidel, and this is pounded into muslim children daily. I am trying to find out if these same prayers are used in the 14 Public Schools that become mosques on Fridays. Road blocks everywhere in Wynne's office and the school board.
“O Allah, pour patience upon Muslims, strengthen their feet and give them victory over ‘Qawm -el Kafiroon’ (Non-Muslims)
I was stunned to listen to Liberal provincial voters in the last Ontario election. They didn't give a damn about the debt, scandals, theft or corruption. I think the left have truly won the battle for the urban voters. People only care for what is in it for me. People are just apathetic, apolitical and disinterested in anything military. As we see in Europe islam knows this and is pressing hard while idiots like Prince Charles and Cameron bow to Mecca.
We have 1.6 million muslims in Canada, if we have to fight against islam I have a bad feeling which side they will be on. Could Canada led against the islamic threat, IMHO a big no. We seem to be well on the way with this program.
Frankfurt School's 1928 Manifesto of Cultural Marxism:
1. the creation of racism offences
2. continual change to create confusion
3. the teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
4. the undermining of schools and teachers’ authority
5. huge immigration to destroy national identity
6. the promotion of excessive drinking
7. emptying the churches
8. an unreliable legal system with bias against the victim
9. dependency on the state or state benefits
10. control and dumbing down of media
11. encouraging the breakdown of the family
12. “community of women” to undermine patriarchy
13. the abolition of private property and of labor itself
without the U.S., in a word, NO. we cannot even handle dissent in Canada let alone anywhere else. our military is too small and our sensibilities to tender. war is a bloody and icky thing.
Cancer can only be beaten if you get to it early enough.
Imagine ISIS with nuclear capabilities.
If Winston Churchill had looked at the ability of the British Commonwealth to defeat Germany at arguably the height of their power, he would/should have said "NO". And he would have sued for peace.
We are all very glad that he didn't just look at hard facts, but that he LED the WESTERN WORLD out of horror.
Maybe Harper isn't capable of that level of leadership. That doesn't mean he/we shouldn't try.