I don’t think anyone was surprised at the Ontario budget yesterday. It was a social wet-dream. Designed to be either DOA and/or Andrea Horwith’s Sword of Damocles, it was effective towards those goals.
That it was filled with unicorn farts is now moot.
I feel that based on the premise in paragraph one the Liberals are going to run to the left…hard. They’re going to try and out-left the NDP. In other words, they’re going to try a Trudeau.
Good luck with that.
“Good luck with that”.
I don’t know, Lance.
After all, this is Ontario.
As Ricky would say
Worse case Ontario r
“Aviation fuel taxes will soar by 248%.”
Gee have the LIEberals ever got a hate on for pilots, ground crew and the flying public…
It appears to be high time that the LIEberals ‘crash and burn’.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
The GTA will swallow this pack of socialist dreams hook line and sinker, looks like four more years of Lieberal mismanagement unless Hudak can pull a rabbit out of the hat. Not very likely given his past performance.
It’s probably because I’m a prairie boy, but the NDP is not a normal political beast. I have great respect for their capabilities.
They’re ideological.
They’re true believers.
They’ll work twice as hard as any other party.
The process is more important than the results.
They’re patient.
Only in special circumstances will they move (read: Alberta).
The NDP (Sid Ryan, notwithstanding) will not be beaten by the perennial, “Run to the left, govern from the right” party. The saying is ludicrous, but its the belief of the left.
In a grander perspective, the Ontario election will define the federal Liberal policy for the next couple of decades. The Liberals (federally and in whatever provinces they’re still relevant) are desperately trying to avoid the fate of the western Liberal parties (BC exempted, but it is special).
Modern politics is moving to a two party system. For and against. It’s “easy” for the voters. The current conception of Liberals have no place there. Given that the Liberal parties have a choice: pre-1968, which is more right than the Conservatives, or replace the NDP.
Given Trudeau the socialist and the budget yesterday, I think it’s obvious what the grander vision is.
My grander vision is the sooner the leftards all f@@k themselves and piss off AB,the sooner we will leave the corpse called Canada.It’s a dead horse.Bury the stinking piece of sh1t before it destroys anymore people!
I’m fine with the left’s vote being split in two, or in 4 or 5 as is the case federally now. If the Liberals supplant the NDP… ok.
Just don’t split the right, I’ve already seen what happens with that.
and a vote for more government, or less government suits me fine too. / the idea of 1 left party, 1 right party.
The proposed Ontario pension plan is absolute lunacy.
It would essentially double pension plan deductions from 9.9% to 19.8%. Imagine seeing 20 percent of ones income going to pensions… There will be a stampede to contracting out to avoid it and thus fewer – not more – people will have adequately funded retirements.
I sincerely and fervently hope that the libs and the nds fail to get one vote but I suspect that Tim (ham fisted) Hudak will once again blow the election.
I have given PC Leder Tim Hudak aplatform with which the PC’s can win Ontario!
and here it is ……………..
Dear Ms MacLeod, MPP for Napean / Carleton, Ontario
I AM
Joe Molnar.
I live in Woodstock, Ontario in Ernie Hardeman’s Oxford Riding.
With an election imminent, I want you to know that the “conservative regulars” at a TIM HORTONS in Woodstock are skeptical of Tim Hudaks’ leadership.
UNLESS……… and UNTIL…………
HUDAK adopts this platform……
NOT to concentrate attention on the corrupt McGuinty/ Wynne former regime (who should be in handcuffs & leg irons for malfeasance ) or concern his attention on the Horwath Dipper Socialists!
Do not spend wasted breath on criticizing the opposition…………TELL ONTARIANS WHAT THE HUDAK LED PCS WILL DO FOR ONTARIANS!!!!!
Tell us this…….. HUDAK PC’S WILL ……
Make Ontario competitive again in the ” marketplace” ………………….. BY….
Making Ontario a “right to work” province……..
Take the sale of “SPIRITS” out of THE foreign owned LCBO and let Ontarian “MOM & POP VARIETY SHOP OWNERS thrive on the legal sales of Family owned businesses!
Re-energize the thriving and FORMER WORLD CLASS Standardbred YEA RLING SALES and Harness racing INDUSTRY by reviving the Casino Slots funding, savaged by the OLG.
Put a freeze on establishing new CASINOS, the soul deadening tax revenue source from gambling addicted Ontarian SENIORS.
PCs will cut “red tape” for small businesses to enter into the marketplace….. will assist …. not subsidize …….
Keep it short, keep it simple and to the point!
Even Hudak should be able to win an election on that, basis, ………… Ontario to become a SMALL BUSINESS friendly place again in CANADA!!
I AM JOE MOLNAR, call me for further elaboration, lest I cast my eyes and ballot to the McKeever “FREEDOM PARTY” in Ontario.
I AM,
JOSEPH (JOE) MOLNAR
Never underestimate Tim’s ability to wrestle defeat from jaws of victory. He always works extra hard to deliver liberal majority. I am sure he will not disappoint again.
Joe,Joe,Joe. As long as you believe and insist on PROGRESSIVE any party,you are fubared.Hudak could not organize a line-up for a 2 hole sh11ter with only 1 person in it. No progressive can.But your belief and child-like innonence is kinda of cute,in a screwed-up kind of way.
Just don’t split the right, I’ve already seen what happens with that.
I live in a safe blue riding, so I vote a straight Freedom Party ticket in the probably vain hope it will send a signal. Joe Molnar, you may want to look at their platform.
:facepalm: …which you obviously already know about.
Continue on about your daily business.
Wynne and Horwath know that between them,they can’t lose. One or the other will have a minority,and the Left-over will hold the balance of power,with Hudak and the Righteously Confused Party way out in Right field, bewildered by it all.
Ontarians will stick with the devil they know,the Liberals and NDP and will never see justice done on any of Dalton’s scandals.
The only question is; will Justin help out with an appearance or two for Wynnn’s Liberals?
‘Lance’ your political perspicacity never fails to unimpress me.
Anyone up for a Hudak Pool?
Winner is the one who is closest to the commonly agreed on date when he plucks an issue from his nether regions without warning, runs it up the flagpole and completely derails the Conservatives’ chances of winning the election?
There would be an Encore feature for guessing the nature of the issue he uses to surprise us and nuke his party’s chances. “Chain gangs” are not an allowable choice….been there….done that.
Rich….I’ll bite. Whodat will state how he can make the bird blenders and weed gardens(i.e. solar panels)turn a profit,AND recoup the billions lost on the lefties sellout of the gas plants,all the while stopping the rolling brown-outs from hitting the cess-pool of the universe on a +25C day!
The Ontario pension plan reform is actually suicide for Libs. huge proportion of their electorate works in public sector on fixed salaries. If they try to push a huge salary cut they’re toast.
You’re on, Rich.
I vote Monday May 5th. As soon as Hudak opens his mouth he’s going to stick all four feet and his tail in there. Because he is first, last and always a -jackass-.
Given the Liberal failathon since the last election I’d say the Conservatives couldn’t lose… but then I remember this is HUDAK country, and the energy with which Timmy pursues defeat has never been equaled.
Prove me wrong, Tim baby! Keep those feet out of your mouth and take the gift the Gods of politics are trying to give you on a silver platter.
Wynne will get back in. Never underestimate the kind of filthy corruption a Liberal voter will tolerate.
May 5th is Children’s Day in South Korea (rather like the children Kathleen Wynne’s friend, Benjamin Levin, is accused of harming) and Cinco de Mayo in Mexico.
You’re going to want to keep some tequila handy, is my point.
Most public sector employees already have defined benefit plans and would be exempt. It’s the workers in private sector – small businesses especially – that will be affected. (It will be a bureaucratic mess too btw)
Ontario – “Liberal She Remains”. Its more than a motto now. When you are wholly owned by the Teachers Union, you can never be anything else. Hudak is a lame duck and will never be king. Ontario as I knew it, the engine of Confederation, is dead.
Obviously the folks that came up with this brain fart are the same ones that worked the last US election for the DNC.
Coming soon on the campaign trail you will hear this:
“If you like your private pension plan you can keep your private pension plan”
The liberal party of Toronto’s wynntirement plan.
Don’t know for sure but I’m kinda sure the median income of the GTA… actually most of Toronto….is above the 150k mark, I think the ground could be quite fertile there for a change.
I’ll keep positive this election but I won’t be surprised if my predication goes down in flames.
Regardless, after this election, Hudak won’t be leader of the opposition.
This election is for Horwath to lose. People forget that there is no conservative party in Ontario, only varying degrees of left. The Ontario conservatives are the remnant of the old Progressive Consdervatives. Hudak has apparently used John Tory as his role model, and Tory couldn’t get elected if he was the only one running. If Horwath runs to the centre, she’ll clean up, if she tries to out-left Wynne, game will go to Wynne. Of the three, Horwath is the most capable, and if she was running the PCs, she’d get a strong majority, but unfortunately she runs with and attracts a dumb crowd.
Hudak ion right field? You’re joking.
My pool guess…May 20. Fate will conspire to tease us but the big H will come through with his true colours.
What the PC’s need to do is kidnap him (veterinary anesthetics are useful) and spirit him away to Nunavut where he will be said to be doing fact finding on global warming or some other important initiative.
Daily press releases will be the only method of communication.
No interviews will be allowed,he will be kept under protective guard, circling the territory , under heavy sedation, until 5 minutes after the election results are declared final.
Or maybe drones….something with drones.
The major problem I have with “equalization” payments lies in the fact that it shields jurisdictions from the consequences of their behaviors. Ontario and its voters have to hit rock bottom before they’ll sober up and unfortunately, with Alberta and now Saskatchewan picking up the tab, it’s still a ways off. Ontario can prop up the illusion of unicorn-land for at least a couple more years. So in my estimation, the best thing that can happen to Ontario is for the lefties to be sitting on the throne when the floor eventually collapses and they’re left to own it and/or do something about it. They’ll trot out their myriad excuses of course, “wreckers, saboteurs, counter-revolutionaries, capitalist running dog lackies of the imperialist bourgeoisie” etc. etc. , though of course not in so many words as to give the game away, and then, eventually, a few of the less impenetrable lefties will begin to see a thing called, “reality”. Then, slowly, there may be a change. In the mean time, still some bad times for Ontario and the rest of the country.
I think Tim can’t even screw this one up. He, unfortunately, never gets angry even when he should. I think that will cause Wynne to literally lose it during the debates.
Sit back and enjoy. This one is going to be entertaining. PC majority.
Why all the negativity?
#1. Liberals have been in for 11 years. “Time for a change” is naturally on the PC side.
#2. Voters are familiar with Hudak as opposition leader. Typically with voters they get cold feet with conservatives the first time out. (Danielle Smith, Harper.)
#3. Kathleen Wynne has never been elected by the people of Ontario, she’s an appointee.
#4. Left-wing vote split.
#5. Lot’s of middle of the road voters that felt comfortable with Dalton’s “Premier Dad” approach, with his elementary school teacher wife of 30 years and his 4 kids, might not be all that comfortable with a woman who became a lesbian at 37 and divorced the father of her kids and got together with a female partner and the three of them lived in the same house.
(Not trying to be a dick, but lot’s of quiet voters out there are going to vote for Hudak with this^ in the back (or front) of their minds.)
#6. Wynne is adopting the VEER LEFT strategy that Paul Martin adopted in 2006. It didn’t work out for him.
#7. The province is beginning the election from a place of failure and everyone feels it. When Ontario went to the polls and voted Liberal in 2003 and 2007, the province was doing quite well. 2011 was a ‘stick with what you know’ and even then it was just barely with a minority. Now the province sucks and people want change.
#8. Canadians of all stripes won’t tolerate corruption/scandal or incompetence. Regardless of policy or big plans or ideology or success…corruption/scandal (real stuff – green schemes/gas plant) and incompetence (Ontario failing) is what will undo a government.
#9. Wynne is setting herself against Harper. Dumb move in a province that gave Harper 73 seats and helped to destroy the federal Liberals. Also…Harper is leading in the federal polls in Ontario.
#10. The results last time were extremely tight. 2011 saw a record low turnout of less than 50%. Motivated voters this time will not be in favour of the incumbent, because of 3 years of failure and an unpoplar Wynne. Watch for a few hundred thousand more new voters this time around skewing the pollsters forecasts.
#11. Wynne is unpopular…here are the bottom 6 results of a poll from January ranking provincial Premiers…
Kathleen Wynne (Ont.) 35%
Pauline Marois (PQ) 32%
Alison Redford (Alta.) 31%
David Alward (NB) 31%
Greg Selinger (Man.) 28%
Kathy Dunderdale (NL) 24%
Notice a trend?
Horwath, McWynnety or Whodat?????
Perhaps a move back to Alberta would be the better choice.
Eminently sensible, all of it, compared to a lot of the rest of the drivel in this thread. Your point 2 is particularly important. Not just conservatives, first time leaders of all stripes generally tank in Ontario. Harris bombed his first time as PC leader before going on to sweep the field in 95. McGuinty went down his first time up against Harris before wiping out Ernie Eves. David Peterson in the ’80s lost out to the PCs, and only salvaged a coalition government with Bob Rae.
Your point 6 is alsy very important. Why veer left? Because the right and centre-right are a lost cause for Wynne. Hudak’s principal threat comes not from a tidal wave of left wing voters. His danger comes from the right; the prospect of a lot of croakers as seen in this thread staying home because “he’s not conservative enough” or some such foolishness.
Veering left didn’t just fail for Martin. It failed for Dion, it failed for what’s ‘er face running against Harris in 95, it failed for Iggy
As for point 5, it’s virtually an iron law in politics that if there’s a significant rise in voter turnout, the incumbent government is going out. Voters don’t stream to the polls to support a government. They go to the polls in large numbers to throw the beggars out. If there’s a rise in voter turnout in June, it’s bad news for Wynne.
The importance of your point 8 cannot be understated. The last squeaker for Dalton came before the explosion of fury over the gas plant scandal. There’s absolutely no way that Wynne can avoid this one; her’ name’s on the contract cancellation order. And there’s going to be lots of campaign advertising reminding everyone of cops seizing government computers.
Now all this doesn’t mean that Hudak’s a shoe-in. What it means is that Wynne is ripe and ready for a thrashing at that polls, and the Libs know it because their budget reeks of desperation. So the only thing that can ruin this is if conservatives play stupid during the election and side-track themselves into stupid irrelevant issues the way they did a few years back with John Tory as the master of disaster.
I agree with oa515; I don’t understand why Tim Hudak wouldn’t have the best chance of being next Premier, even if only with a minority government.
Ont is starkly split along GTAH and the rest of the province. There are 30-33 rural seats where Wynne has not a hope of winning; after all the the precise reason we have a minority is because McGuinty won 1 rural seat last time out, and he was a much better campaigner. Had McGuinty won a couple of more, he would still be with us and the gas plant scandal would be buried even deeper.
For Horwath to win she also would have to take some of these rural seats, but how likely is that? NDP voted for the Green Energy Act and supported Liberals every step of the way on the industrial wind factories. By keeping Wynne in power she has provided a year for Liberals to approve as many wind factories as possible, all in the countryside. Besides she has no appeal to rural residents on other issues like agriculture policy.
Neither of the two socialist sisters can win simply by appealing to urban voters, they will just beat up on each other.
This leaves the PCs and I think Tim Hudak is far more likely to win enough urban seats, than either of the sisters is to take rural holdings. Have a bit of faith that some Ontarians retain their common sense.
If the voters in Ontario vote according to “what’s in it for me” Wynne may appeal to enough of them to eek out a minority. If they care about the massive debt with promises of ongoing massive spending, lies, scandal, higher and high taxes on everything we need to survive, keep the wolf from the door, they have one choice, PC it is. Call Hudak smart-ass names, run him down,and get exactly what we have back at which point Ontario voters can STFU and pay, pay, pay. The massive debt will be passed on to grandchildren if they don’t leave the province because they can’t find employment.
Ontario the Stupid will be a bumper sticker if they Liberals or NDP in the present economic mess we are in.
– Three party popular vote comparison in the seven ridings where provincial by-elections occurred between August 2013 and February 2014:
2011 General Election: Lib 46.4% PC 33.3% NDP 20.3% (actual result).
2013-2014 By-elections: Lib 31.4% PC 38.9% NDP 29.7% (actual result; Ms. Wynne was Liberal leader through this period).
– All-party popular vote:
2011 General Election: Lib 39.3% PC 37.0% NDP 23.7% (actual result).
2014 General Election: Lib 22.7% PC 41.0% NDP 32.1% (projected result, based upon uniform swing from by-election results).
Which projected result matches pretty closely with both the Angus Reid and Ipsos-Reid poll results of this past week, although not so much with EKOS’s johnny-on-spot-with-a-Liberal-lead-after-the-budget poll released today (but then, again, Frank does have his problems, doesn’t he?).
So, I’d say that Ms. Wynne has her work cut out for her. And it’s not begun well, I don’t think: not only has she not shown the slightest contrition, since becoming Liberal leader, for her party’s bad behaviour in office, she continues to want to talk about a whole bunch of superficial and transparently extraneous nonsense:
– Ontario pension plan,
– alleged lack of federal support for “Ring of Fire” development in a beggar-thy-neighbour comparison with Alberta’s oil and gas development — that approach worked real well for Mr. McGuinty,
– we need someone to “stand up to Stephen Harper” — whatever that means,
– etc., etc.
Plus, Mr. Harper and Mr. Oliver did a very nice hatchet job on her yesterday in setting the frame of reference for the campaign — jobs, the economy and public finances.
That said, it’s up to Mr. Hudak to put on a credible, tightly-disciplined campaign unambiguously focussed on the issues suggested by Mr. Harper and Mr. Oliver — and to deliver on his commitments once in office.
Ontario voters should be very wary of the proposed OPP (Ontario Pension Plan).
Precedent that comes to mind is the Clinton administration’s raid of the SS trust fund during the 1990s to balance the federal budget by underwriting the “loan” with IOUs (T-Bills)
Effectively kicking the can down the road and hoping for some future miracle. Unlikely – Either taxpayers will be taxed twice for the same benefits or the benefits will be cut.
David, I agree with all of that. That said, campaigns matter, a lot. Just ask Pauline Marois and Danielle Smith.
NeoLuddite, I agree with you about the OPP. This is precisely how the Libs intend to pay for everything. Grab the cash under the guise of pension enhancement and fill the fund with worthless IOUs (Ontario Government bonds paying squat for interest).
Amen!
I kind of have to respect Horwath. Kind of principled, savvy, and she can break out some good lines. Evil, but respectable. The opposite of Hudak.
There is one certainty in this election: the OPCs will lose. They have a 0% chance of winning. It’s not just Hudak, a born loser. Harper without the good luck. It’s the OPCs. They are a hopeless bunch of left-wing clods. Don’t waste your vote on losers.
His danger comes from the right; the prospect of a lot of croakers as seen in this thread staying home because “he’s not conservative enough” or some such foolishness.
How DARE the peasants actually demand a plan that conforms to their values and principles! How DARE they use their reason to come to obvious conclusion that Hudak has no such plan! YOUR VOTES BELONG TO THE PARTY
Relatively speaking,of course!
Don’t feed the trolls. We’ll see how long this iteration lasts before there’s a step too far.
At the risk of being too hard on my fellow Ontraians, I fear that they will with the same “what’s in it for me” outlook that gave us McSquinty, Boob Rae and Hussein Obama. Please prove me wrong.
Lance, Lance, Lance. Whatever are we going to do with you? You’re taking all the fun out of it. We haven’t had a good troll-hunt around here in a while. Nothing smells so good as burnt-troll-on-toast.
Whodat, Whining Wynne, and Horrorwith…we are so screwed, no matter who wins!!!!!
cgh said: “So the only thing that can ruin this is if conservatives play stupid during the election and side-track themselves into stupid irrelevant issues the way they did a few years back with John Tory as the master of disaster.”
Uhm, yeah. Hence my point above. Hudak is the kind of guy who can lose at poker with four aces in his hand. Our only hope as a province is if everybody else in the Ontario PCs sit on him and jam a sock in his mouth.
My real problem with Hudak and the PCs is that they are the least-bad of three bad alternatives. Voting for them is attractive only in that the growth of corruption, public debt and taxes will accelerate less with the PCs than the other two packs of leprous dogs. It won’t stop, they’ll just lift their foot off the gas a bit and stop spinning the tires.
Really worth getting excited about, right?
Looks like the Petra Principle, after all, they deserve equality of stupidity too.
How come Christy isn’t on the list? She’s still dumb as a bag of hammers. Yes, she proved better than Comrade Adrian, qu’elle surprise?
Ontario, you’re so fekked…….
Morontario has been wasting their votes on losers for 11 years, you suggest doubling down on that destructive theory?
You’d best get excited and get out to vote, or it’s more of Wynne and her corrupt gang of crooks.