If a party is going to make a stand for something, if they're going to plant their flag, doesn't it behoove them to at least fight?
Do they really not understand why every offer the House made to the Senate and Obama was refused? Everyone else understands, that's for sure. Everyone knew the Republicans were going to cave. What point of giving ground if you know your opponent is going to surrender the day before the real conflict starts.
If the Republicans had lasted two more days they might have effected real change, the President would have had to make decisions about where the money was going to go. The Republicans would have forced Obama to concede a little, they would have earned the derision he directed towards them today, they would have earned the negative media.
The Republicans would have gotten something for it, though.
The people and the Democrats have no respect for the Republicans because 1) they have nothing for which they'll really fight, 2) they're all full of sound and fury...signifying nothing.
The next time the Tea Party, and there will be a next time, stands for their beliefs they need to make sure the Republican party is standing on the other side of the lines. Counting on the establishment to have your back is a mistake.
Three more years of trillion dollar deficits. The media will probably blame the Tea Party for the eventual default, too.
Well said.
A trillion here, a trillion there..; Barack Jean Obama...
One scenario is that Tea Party voters sit out the 2016 election, the republicans are decimated, Hillary has 4 years to destroy the country further, but they rebuild a conservative party during that time.
Even with president Clinton in power, and complete control of both houses, the Tea Party and like minded conservatives can still have a presence in states, cities, and counties and fight back against the socialist cancer from Washington.
There's very little reason to support the current version of the Republican if you are a conservative American who loves his country more than the UN and who wants his children to have a future - what we have now is a choice between going downhill on a steep slope, or downhill on a slightly less steep slope. Either way, you end up broke at the bottom. At least a new conservative party has a chance to make a difference.
The other side of that argument, though, is that a majority of American no longer love their country enough to care, and don't have the education or political understanding to know that their future is doomed on the current track. They'll just keep voting for their free stuff, and the great experiment that was America is destroyed.
The problem I have is with the back stabbing weasels like McCain, Graham and Peter King. They do more to demoralize the Republican party than Reid, Pelosi and Obama ever could.
And if I was a Democrat or Democrat supporter (like the Media), I'd want to keep them around in a high profile position a long, long time.
One of the big problems with sitting out the next (or more...) elections is that there's no way those aging Supreme Court justices that usually represent the right will last long enough. The Supreme Court will be solidly left leaning for the next 25 years. That damage may be permanent. A split from the Republicans and formation of a third party, looks a lot like the Reform Party result in Canada, that is, majority leftist governments as far as the eye can see.
The alternative, seeing the Republicans become a mirror of the Democrats sucks just as much.
I don't have any insight to the future where it looks good for conservatives, unless this experiment in socialism implodes much quicker than the Republican Party seems to be (imploding).
The American conservative movement is going through what Canada went through a whole bunch of years ago. The US is later to the party because the US political centre has always been much further right than Canada's. Canada had to burn out the progressives (ie the PC party) first and did so with the Reform/Alliance re-alignment of Canadian conservatism.
The US is just now entering that fight and you have basically the same conservative stand-off: progressives vs reformers. The progressives are older, and retiring- their progressivism is, I think, partly due to age - not only does the hair get gray, so do the issues. The reformers, AKA the Tea Party protegees are younger and will inherit the fight. The Dems have accelerated their program, in part, because they were the alpha group of two progressive parties. The betas, the GOP, got fuzzy in their ideology, but since they weren't all in, the Dems have steamrolled them.
The American political system is a different animal - it remains to be seen if they can find their re-alignment before they collapse. Canada came from a position of relative weakness to strength in the transition. America may have to weaken further in order to find its resolve to re-align.
It's the big money behind either party that dictates where they fight and when they surrender. Politicians and Presidents are all in someone's pocket and their marching orders come in late night phone calls and clandestine meetings. Show me a honest politician and I'll show you a defeated candidate in the next election. That's how I see it and little I have seen in my lifetime to indicate otherwise.
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
Winston Churchill
I don't think Republicans can hold it together much longer, it will be open revolt as everyone looks after their short term interests going into the next vote. My guess is they won't make inroads and instead will lose ground. It will be like Canada in that the media will scared monger about the tea party control of the republicans and independents will go democrat.
The reason they caved is that their approval ratings cratered. Therefore, the retreat was all about winning the next congressional election.
Sometimes you live to fight another day.
Sometimes you realize it's better to be practical and in power than the be unbendingly principled and powerless. That's how Harper has remained in power and it sure beats having the Libs or the Dippers running the show.
peterj, about as close to the bull's eye as it gets except that we have fascism, not democracy.
Rush and many others believe a third party would be a mistake because it would involve a long walk in the woods. They are right ab out the fact it would take time for a third party to gain power but they are wrong in thinking that it would take as long as it did for us for example. It only took the reform / conservative party 20 years to hit pay dirt because we didn't have blogs and we had no conservative media. A third party would probably only sit out one election cycle if that.
"re-alignment of Canadian conservatism"?? Really?
Its a ...re-alignment to the left. The Harper liberals are running up the debt. Embarasing us in the senate and doing everything they can to be a centrist party so as to stay in power. The liberal game plan played out by a "conservative" party.
Wht are we so easily fooled by labels.
The budget will be balanced by next year. This was done while cutting taxes. The liberals wanted to blow more cash on the stimulus remember. They even tried a coup over it.
What Lance and PeterJ said.
So Rush et al think a third party would be a mistake. So, I suppose it is better to leave all principles behind, become more like the progressives and just go for the mace. Maybe the Republicans need to sit in the wilderness for a while, and go back to their roots. Let the progressives almost ruin the country, and maybe the people will wake up, or if they are too far gone with dreams of free phones etc, and the do a total reset like Russia.
Rejoice. The Bunny Inspectors, after a two week paid vacation, are back on the job. They will be paid for their “furlough” as if they had worked full time, with no loss of time off, and they can go back to watching stage magic shows to be certain that no thaumaturgist uses a rabbit in his performance without a Federal license from the Department of Agriculture, unless, of course, the rabbit is killed as part of the performance in which case no Federal license is required. I wish I were making all this up, but I am not. It’s the law. They will also inspect back yard rabbit cages where people who keep pet rabbits have their stock, and if anyone sells a pet rabbit without a Federal license the cost is about $5000 per bunny. If you kids keep rabbits, make sure they give them away rather than sell them. It is possible that they can sell rabbits for slaughter without a Federal license, but check with your lawyer before they do it.
So rejoice. The awful majesty of the Federal Government, for which Patriot blood was shed at Bunker Hill and Cowpens and Yorktown, will come down hard on those who dare use rabbits in public performance without a Federal license; and they will not be getting away with it, since the Inspectors are on the job.
JP Chaos Manor
Lori-thanx for posting my answer to your first post:-))))
and politician has become a 4 letter word:-)))
The conservatives have a chance to recoup, but it will require getting the wobbly republicans primaried.
Everybody is writing off the gop, but they aren't quite dead yet.
If the GOP had held up the budget any longer there is no doubt this Obama regime would send the zombie hordes into the streets rioting for welfare. That would allow Obama to invoke emergency powers under the patriot act, suspend congress and act unilaterally in a "crisis" which would last - how long? The choice was the continuity of semi functional congressional oversight of a dangerous government or handing them unlimited power in a crisis management martial law scenario.
It is the height of myopic arm chair Quarterbacking to suggest the GOP opposition acted like wimps - they avoided having a dictator actually becoming one.
You know, until people get really %$#@*&g angry, this is what you'll get. And I'm afraid that anger (along with analytical thought) is getting rarer and rarer.
I found the media hysteria interesting. It's as if the media were in bed with the government ... oh, wait ... many are. They are all democrats. The hysterical name calling of the repubs and Tea Party was, well, shrill and hysterical.
This is how communist states operated.
peterj >
That's it in a nutshell, well said.
I know where the US money went. I have just returned from China after a 23 day trip. The infrastructure just blew us away. Within the last 5-7 years China has rebuilt the country. Every airport we went to for our 5 flights was brand new, high speed rail, highways and city roads all new and beautiful with gardens surrounding them. In Shanghai they built 5 huge bridges in 5 years, new subways with 5 more under construction. Old apartments are being torn down and new condos are everywhere. The national bird is the construction crane. Sure there are lots of cars and traffic where there used to be bicycles but people don't get excited and things move along. The buildings are just awe inspiring with their design especially in Shanghai.
Air pollution is a major problem but billions are being spent in nuclear and eliminating coal plants and unlike McGuinty in Ontario China will meet their targets. People seemed happy, well fed and looked prosperous everywhere we went. Saw no military except for a couple of squads in Tianamen Square.
We were reading about the continuing argument in Toronto about a 3 stop subway in Scarborough and just laughed as everything we saw was completed and in use and smooth as silk to use.
In my view China is where we were 30-40 years ago with the confidence, entrepreneurial drive and focus to really improve their citizen's lives. The Communist government is still in charge and own all the land but will use their US money to keep upgrading their country. We on the other hand with our punitive taxes, massive public unions and huge inept governments are sliding down with apathy and stagnation.
dave;
I'll never forget flying into Shanghai, in the evening, in the '80's, a city of 10 million with what appeared to be a single 100W bulb on. I walked 6 blocs from my hotel to another hotel to hear a USA navy band play. On the way I met two Chinese with a rifle who were hunting birds to eat. At that time Guadung(?) was a developing special economic zone. The Chinese had entry inspections to keep Chinese workers looking for work out. Never saw a dump truck bigger than a single axle or a loader bigger than a backhoe. Very few of those.
The USA has tried a Canadian style Reform Party known as the Tea Party and it appears to have failed. George II could have built on the Tea Party in his 2nd term but was side tracked or didn't really believe in them. The struggle for Canadian Reform was fought with everything the progressives had. Success in achieving government was probably more luck than philosophical. The Liebels and PC's back east simply could not comprehend what was happening. The Dippers watched us gut their support as many of their supporters actually believed in fiscal restraint and free speech.
PMSH comes from Reform roots and is well grounded in what has to be done to turn the ship. He knows the political reality of actually telling voters they cannot have whatever they want and thusly must walk a narrow path. His general strength with the people is they fear a serious economic downturn more than losing some progressive touchy feely catch phrases. He has hooked his re-election to a booming economy and does the work of positioning Canada globally to achieve that. In essence this will defeat him long term as I am sure that as voters become more assured of their jobs they will re-embrace progressive themes.
I've always believed you only pick the battles you know you can win.
As much as I'm sympathetic to the taxed enough already (TEA) goals, this particular fight is being perceived as an own goal.
Who could have guessed the implementation of the ACA website would be such a disaster? That would have been a huge gift. So, all that other stuff ended up being a tactical disaster for the TEA party, whose principles I support.
Sad. It's up to the US voters now.
CT, thanks for the info on Shanghai. You would not recognize it today. The Chinese leaders, as our guide told us in discussions over our trip, have learned well from our mistakes in the West and are aware of how our political pandering to every interest group has cost us more than just money, it has attacked the basic roots of our success. The Chinese focus on education and the family, even with its one child policy, will enable it to move forward as a world power. By the way Shanghai is now 25 million.
The tea party reform has not failed.
The reform party took 10 years to succeed. The tea party will need the same amount of time. The reform party was able to form a party of their own in the Canadian system, but even then they eventually needed to absorb the remainder of the PC party to achieve electoral victory.
The tea party has not started by forming their own party, because in the US two party system that is electoral suicide. Instead they are trying to take over the Republican party. Reform succeeded in doing this. The tea party can to. But there will be the same bruises and failures along the way.
The tea party are on the map in the same way the reform party was on the map in the mid to late 90s.
That's my two cents.
What old Lori said at 9:13.
Ditto for Canada.
I don't know Lori, if the Democrats get control of all three Houses again we are looking at an additional 30 Million Illegal Mexican Democrat Voters. I believe that would pretty much finish us off.
The budget will be balanced by next year.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *intake of air* AHAHAHAHAhAHAHAHAHA Good one I needed a laugh and the Harper Youth can always provide it.
The current situation in Canada, with its absolutely sterilized federal Right, is a warning against the 'you have to have power to exercise principles' nellies. Just ignore. At this point, it really doesn't matter what party gets power.
The GOP approval numbers are meaningless. The GOP establishment is so hopelessly myopic that they cannot see past the beltway, beyond which nobody cared about the shutdown. Too bad Cruz didn't think things though and develop a serious plan.
LAS;
Methinks you be jaded mon!
I'm one of those 'sterilized conservatives' and agree that a serious plan is needed. None of our Canadian parties seen to have a plan. Harper is happily cutting trade deals hoping that a healthy economy will re-elect him and save the country at the same time. Mulclair is more worried about what hair style Turdeau will use in his Quebec campaign.
The minute Canadians stood by and let politicians deficit spend our goose was cooked. Any politician with a blank cheque book will use it no matter what the stripe. I support Harper because he uses the cheque book less than the other two would.
I support Harper because I am deluded enough to believe that he uses the cheque book less than the other two would.
FTFY. Yes I jaded. Right now the only pro-freedom offering on the federal table is Trudeau's MJ legalization policy. If that's all there is, that's all I'm eating.
from the blog post:
"The media will probably blame the Tea Party for the eventual default, too."
What default? The 14th Amendment of the US Constitution explicitly prohibits that.
On the other hand, we could inflate our way out of the debt. Just resurrect the economic policies of the Carter administration, which led to Stagflation.
(BTW, we had a similar thing happen in the late 1950s, but we didn't call it by that name.)