So great was his defeat that the leaders who followed quickly closed the door he had opened -- and what might have been a prelude to a new conversation has become a cautionary tale.
What the Himelfarbs, in their commentary, fail to understand is that their base presumptions are off. I don't know many people who don't understand the need for taxation. I know a great many people who question the need for gov't to fund everything it does.
The question shouldn't be, as the Himelfarbs propose, "What will we lose?" but, "What will you cut to fund your new public pet project?"
But what's more dystopian? An unfortunate government shutdown by people who have decided to put their foot down against perpetual growth? Or a government and complicit media -- whether it be in America or Canada -- that does all it can to deflect attention from the ballooning state?
maybe we need to be reminded...
http://www.taxpayer.com/media/David_Dingwall_%28You-Asked-For-It%29.pdf
Himelfarb forgets many things in that screed. First a sidenote, never forget that Himelfarb was Clerk of the Privy Council, the head bureaucrat of all bureaucrats in Ottawa. His perspective is distorted, to say the least.
Now to substance. Himelfarb's claim is that taxes have been cut right and left. What he neglects is the total tax burden. Provincial taxes, at least those in Ontario, have been rising relentlessly well above the inflation rate for more than a decade. Who can neglect McGuinty's Health Care Levy, a vicious tax hitting essentially all income levels and with absolutely no deductions?
And what did Ontario get for its billions in taxes raised? Billions wasted on EHealth, ORNGE, canceled gas plants and useless renewable scams. Perhaps Alex should keep his trap shut unless he's prepared to deal with the gross mismanagement of his provincial brethren.
Next, Himelfarb claims that taxes have been reduced. But that's after 20 years of de-indexing tax brackets had shoved every Canadian into a higher tax bracket by the mid-2000s.
And what did Canadians get for all the billions in "new" tax revenues? Ah yes, Cormorants that don't fly, Sikorskys that can't seem to get off the drawing board, F35s that we'll be lucky if they don't get off the drawing boards, used subs that won't float, a telecommunications commission that gives us the highest cell phone rates in the world, free loans to friends of Le Crouton, intervenor funding to foreign foundations to block Canadian energy projects, funding Maurice Strong's bid to become UN Secretary General.
Yes, Mr. Himelfarb, you and the Ottawa mandarins have given us such superb value for money over the many, many years of Liberal rule. Such good value that it deserves a proper reward; my boot kicking your ass up between your ears.
Great comment cgh...and we really didn't expect 'factual' from a Star column did we?
I don't mind my share of taxpaying.
It's how it is spent (mispent) that irks me.
"North Americans under 40 have never really known anything other than neo-liberal politics and governments that seem to be backing away, so many will understandably see small government and low taxes as the only option. Those of an older vintage are invested in the current model —many have done quite well by it."
Of course they did well by it, after 4 decades of liberal graft and corruption, they got tossed. A higher tax environment means less for families, and more for bureaucratic infestation. The Dion-ystic carbon tax grab was firmly rejected much the Suzuki enviro-freakish lament.
Why would Canadians vote for the 'Green Shaft' when they know that the earth has been absent AGW for the last 15 years...?
The proposition was a simple theft for no good reason; why would anyone who is thinking vote for it?
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
The country that the Himelfarbs want is not the country that I want. And their praise for Barack Obama for wanting to increase taxes on the rich really worked well for France's Hollande. Stephane Dion's idea of instituting a national carbon tax would do what the B.C. carbon tax has done, significantly raise the prices of food and other essentials. The little guy gets squeezed more and more, at a time when multiple factors such as robotics, outsourcing, offshoring and heightened requirements for jobs make finding employment difficult. These writers should get out and talk to people who are not within their obviously privileged echelon.
It's a common thread that the people who have never worked a day in their life are always the biggest pigs at the trough and the most willing to spend other peoples money. Always the fattest babies on the government teat. Money for nothing and the twits are free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k47Rhv_2MwQ
Yep, it's the waste and corruption. Taxes sent to bureaucrats and politicians are handled like spoils of war to be divvied up among the victorious and their hangers-on. Basically, taxpayers have come to the rational conclusion that politicians and public service unions are crooked. No amount of nagging by experts, activists and academics will change that image.
What is also interesting is that there is no correlation between high taxes and better public services in Canada. In fact isn't the the highest taxed province Quebec? A province where political corruption is the norm, healthcare is terrible, education outcomes are middling at best and a riot at worst, and debt/deficits are out of control. On top of it all Quebec's economy is this awful despite a wealth of natural resources, never ending equalization and the bilingual advantage for public service jobs.
By observation it seems that reliance on high taxes/Big Government does more to create disincentives and inequality than an income splitting ever could. Evidence and image are working against the higher tax crowd. They should reform the government and restore trust before demanding more taxes.
Pretty sure there's a box at the end of the tax return (at least in Ontario) that invites you to contribute more. Himmelfarbs and anyone else who is worried about the devastating undertaxation in this counntry is free to use it .
"I don't mind my share of taxpaying."
I mind my "share" of taxpaying when it does nothing but go up constantly.
Everyone should mind, always. It's when you don't mind that the self ordained ruling class use the law to plunder us.
Yup. The concept that GOVERNMENT, which used to stand for US, Canadians, owns our LABOUR, is just wrong-headed, and to add insult to injury, the gov't is constantly handing the fruits of our labour to scoundrels. The Himelfarbs see this as being 'generous.' I see it as being dead wrong.
"They should reform the government and restore trust before demanding more taxes".
But that would mean spending within their means and showing respect for the taxpayers ability and willingness to pay. This can never be accomplished as long as a third of the population demands more free everything, another third demands we save the planet NOW , at any cost, and the last third is demanding accountability for money already spent. Harper would probably love to reform and restore, as well as dump the CBC, but the math makes it almost impossible to be re elected as he would only be catering to the last third which he already has on his side. At least on the Federal level, he's trying but is being cancelled out on the Provincial,Municipal and local moonbat levels. If logic was food, BC , Ontario and Quebec would already be dead from starvation. I can't see how reform is possible unless it all crashes and we get a complete reset. That should come within a year after the USA goes down in flames, within a few years.
Things I've heard from executive level bureaucrats include ".. but Industry Canada is the econonmy..", ".. but people want more programs and services"..
As one of the "North Americans under 40 (who) have never really known anything other than neo-liberal politics and government" I'm leaving. I've also started a company that's employed a dozen or so people for as many years, have never taken a UI or welfare cheque, have been denied adequate health care and am absolutely fed up with the soul crushing PC social-everything welfare state. Having seen how some peers have done outside of Canada it's a no brainer. There can never be a detente with these people. The cold war was apparently fought for nothing.
What country suits you better?
Tax-cutters are winning elections - Harper in Canada, Ford in Toronto, Wall in Sask. In order to get elected they must also promise not to touch popular programs like healthcare or crown corps. Tax cutters run into problems when they start to yap about women, minorities and other sensitive subjects.
Some provinces and cities are a lost cause and there's nothing wrong with that since people can vote with their feet. Eventually these places will reform or perish. This is the advantage of a political system with decentralized power structure.
"...we never ask of tax cuts “What will we lose?” Canada’s slow-motion austerity may blind us to the consequences, but they are no less real: a less resilient and generous country and a stunted political imagination. ..."
We will lose people who think their living should be guaranteed in return for them doing what they want to do to and/or for people who don't want those things done to or for them.
That slow-motion austerity will lead to a more resilient and generous population and a political imagination that goes beyond thinking "Whose votes can we buy with money taken from those voters who will never vote for us no matter what or will always vote for us no matter what?" Speed it up, please.
None. But I'm going anyway and will hopefully be able to afford a Canadian home and will be back every chance I get, just not for work.
Gotcha. We're making a move, soon, I hope, but just to another location on Vancouver Island. The new place is paradise on a relative shoestring. We'll be downsizing for the lifestyle.
just went liquid on my assets, so's I can decide if I want to go off shore (maybe central America). I know a few ppl who have shut down their small bus. as they regulate you to death. I just didn't want to go back into bus. for myself for the same reason, it's almost impossible to deal with stupid gov't employees, no matter what the political persuation they are, they just don't live in the real world!!
as to himelfarbs, the goof is an uniformed idiot, with low level comprehention skills
Can't you just smell their fear?
What utter BS. As far as I'm concerned I'm getting essentially no value for the taxes I pay and there should be a means for taxpayers to indicate what they want their taxes used for. In my case, it would be 75% for defense and 25% for medical research.
What we also need is an independent report on which politicians were responsible for the greatest amount of government waste. McSquinty probably holds the record, and for such politicians, any benefits they might have recieved from governments should be garnished until they pay off the losses they have incurred. Such a program would also preclude them from receiving welfare payments. I guess we could be humane and offer them a pistol with one bullet in the mag in appreciation of their years of public service if living on the street becomes too onerous for them.
Politicians aren't the least bit responsible when it comes to dealing with other peoples money and it seems to be an abstraction to them. What is needed is a personal stake of the politician in their programs -- if it succeeds then they get paid, if it fails then they're paying for the losses they incurred. Also, crony capitalists should be forced to pay back to taxpayers monies they have obtained through theft from taxpayers -- the current crony capitalist thieves all seem to be representing them as watermelon saviors at the moment.
Me I'm perfectly willing to pay for the sort of country I want. What I certainly am not willing to pay for is the sort of country the banksters seem to want---one where governments mortgage the inheritance of the civilized world to buy votes; the banksters foreclose and walk off with the world's wealth when the taxpayers try to revolt; imported savages are handed the fan-waving jobs the banksters can't pass off to robots; and the British Protestant working class who earned it all have no future even as slaves.
Taxes not collected and left in the pockets of those who earned that money (the concept of "earning" may be foreign to the Himelfarbs) is either spent on useful goods and services or deposited in the bank. The latter is loaned out to businesses who hope to find ways to make more or cheaper or better goods and services, thus raising the standard of living for citizens and making a profit from trading them, some of which is returned to the lending institution as payment for the loan.
Taxes collected are spent on necessary government services like the police, useful services that don't need to be run by government like education and health care, handout support for those who are "down on their luck" but whose numbers are deliberately inflated by irresponsible government economic policies, and vicious bodies that should not exist in a free society like "human rights commissions".
What the Himelfarbs refuse to realize is that if you think your bank is wasting your money, you can take your deposits elsewhere, but you can't do that with governments. You can vote to change governments, once every few years, but when the politicians are on record as claiming that social programs and the like "define Canada" then what hope is there for improved and less wasteful social programs? The vested interests will fight tooth and nail to block that kind of change. They like the status quo just fine.
Taxation is coercive, and the fundamental rule of a civilized society is that no person has the right to initiate the use of force or fraud on any other person. Therefore taxes by their very nature are uncivilized and barbaric. The question is how to get rid of them. That cannot be done overnight, but it is long past the time to start the discussion.
Perhaps the terms "private sector" and "public sector" should be replaced by "voluntary sector" and "coercive sector".
As far as I'm concerned I'm getting essentially no value for the taxes I pay...
Me either. What benefit do I get from helping pay your salary?
a much needed medically correct ENEMA!!!
The biggest pigs are usually the first to get slaughtered.
An enema is much more likely to be required by so-called adults who strictly suck the gov't teat.
The problem here is one of disconnection between making decisions and paying for them. The only decision we get in Canada is to troop to the polls once every 4-5 years to choose between 3 or 4 gangs, who will then make all the decisions about what services we get, who will provide them, how much they will cost, and how we will pay for them. Thus, we get effectively one chance to decide who is going to make hundreds of other decisions, and that one decision is often swayed by factors that are extraneous (voting for Justin 'cause he's cute, or not voting for Ford 'cause he's fat) to the decisions being made.
The problem is further exacerbated by allowing people who don't pay any taxes at all the right to demand programs that working people do pay taxes for. Because decisions are not made by the people who will be taxed to pay for them, government will continue to grow by expanding the Free Sh*t Army (FSA) via new and unpaid for programs until the economy finally collapses. See, for example, Argentina (1975), Hungary (1930's), Argentina (1989), Zimbabwe, Russia (1920's), Argentina (2004), etc.
It is a class war - it's the shrinking middle class between the FSA on one hand, and the crony capitalists on the other (much worse in the US than in Canada, IMHO, but still bad here). Naturally, governments want to disarm the citizenry; the governments are not so stupid they can't see the writing on the wall. Blood is going to flow in the streets, one way or the other, as either the put-upon middle class rebels and fights, or enough withdraw and 'go Galt' to make the collapse come quicker. Not a pretty sight either way, but while the Himmelfarbs of the world still have clout, pretty much inevitable.