Origins Of Math

" Other scientists are finding that certain math capabilities vary by culture ".

Alrighty then...this explains why Obama is absolutely clueless on the economy and has surrounded himself with like minded clueless people. Detroit was in great shape right up to the last minute dontyaknow and it would be racist to suggest that culture had anything to do with its sudden demise, so I wont.

Something about this story just doesn't add up.

"Other scientists are finding that certain math capabilities vary by culture and depend on how we interact with the world. Both types of findings suggest math is a human construct rather than a phenomenon that determines how the cosmos is constructed."

Well duh!! The arrogance of the human race never ceases to amaze me, that through science we've unlocked the cosmos. Is that what drove Bertram Russell bonkers?

Philosophy is a better field of study to debate this question.

"God made the integers. All else is the work of man." - Leopold Kronecker

Math is math. If I do 2 hours work for you at 2 cents an hour,it still adds up to you owe me 4 cents,or the equvialent.Mind you,math is hard.

It's evolution and most, if not all, higher order animals can do basic math.

1 hyena in your vicinity- it's ok
10 hyenas- very,very bad

This was as true for ancient humans as it is for a lone lion today.

I don't doubt that some villager in latin america may have more mathematical ability than your average social science or humanities graduate from a good university. But s/he may never have the opportunity to develop it. Is that really because of culture or just lack of opportunities? Too many citizens in Western civilization seem to be mathematically illiterate even though math surrounds us for math to be strictly a cultural phenomenon.

BTW, if the universe is not inherently mathematical then what is the alternative?

math is the language our mind uses to "understand" the structures that surround us, in that we are part of the universe we are structured the same way. So it would be surprising that our minds would not have an inherent ability to naturally inter react with it. As to cultural differences, well, there is a nurture aspect to using this "language", and culture determines what that nurture consists of. Also intelligence is a factor in the use of the math-language, and again, culture determines how we use our intelligence. Having said that, the debate of nature vs. nurture will rage on!

Math and science are totally different, in that math is exact, whereas science (and the world) is not. Math, as a concept, is totally separate from science.

Math, however, is an absolitely fantastic & necessary tool for describing the world, and thus also for science.

Math is the subtext of reality.Calculation its senses for human navigation. God its author.

God gave you a brain .... whether or not you use it is up to you.

The very fact that these self described scientists engage in a debate about what math is proves that at least 3/4 scientists have chosen to misuse the brain God gave them.

Sacred geometry is beautiful.. We love straight lines and perfect symmetry.. It gives us balance and a sense of order that is actually quite organic.. So yes.. Math is the language of God.. The key and the lock tied up in the ultimate equation.. 1+1=2

Even animals do math.. Squirrels hide their nuts because they are finite.. Baby birds get kicked out of the nest because their parents can no longer provide the necessities of life to them and prepare for the next mating season.. Fish swim in schools because many is better than one.. Dogs live in packs with one leader.. On and on, example after example of math being the one true universal language.. If it lives it speaks it.. I would even go so far as to say the brain is optional.. Look at all the exquisite structure screaming math / geometry in our plant life..

Universal rules dont happen by chance, the odds of that happening are.... math... case closed.

Maybe these "Scientists" were thinking about 'Do the math' when they were actually
on "Do the Meth".

ITT: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Pythagoras/Plato vs Kant

lets imagine that nothing exists at all in the universe.. Its nothing, nothing, nothing before the so called big bang.. What are the odds of something happening? Math existed before matter in our universe because we have matter in our universe.. Whatever it is, it happened. How it happened is secondary.. A series of events or a single event (God) still is bound by the odds of it happening.. You could even ponder the odds of a sure thing, but even that is bound by the odds of that happening as well..

A game of chance is to play the odds..

I got this far.

"Someone might say that their cat has the properties of being cute, black and slightly neurotic. But a cat is actually a very elaborate arrangement of particles such as electrons, which are purely mathematical objects in the sense that they have no properties other than mathematical properties"

And sometimes a cat is just a cat,unless you have way too much time on your hands and want to impress other people with way too much time on their hands.

Poor ole NME666 his anti-Christian bias has him seeing things that aren't there. The only person on this thread that has mentioned the Bible is NME666.

Of course Butterworth has got it.

Mathematic is a construct. It is a clever abstract that only Homo sapiens can come up with to explain things around them.
Events in the universe relate to mathematics and are explained by the same, though they are random.

Mathematic as though being inert in the same way as some wise guy came with a concept:
When a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody to hear it, does it make a racket?

By the way, was the Biggs boson physically discovered or not? Was there not an uncertainty about that?

From totally nonacademic that knows nothing though muses a lot.

From the article: "BRIAN BUTTERWORTH: We’ve pinpointed an area of the human brain where there’s a specialist neural network that responds to counting the number of objects in a set. This area of the brain can recognize numbers across modalities. In other words, it can recognize three cats, three tones or three wishes. A similar area in the brain of the monkey does the same job. We even discovered the guppy — a small fish with a tiny brain — has one system for detecting small sets of up to four objects and one for larger sets."

One of the observed features of Nature is parsimony. No biological structure is more complicated or more energetic than it needs to be to perform its function.

So if even a guppy has specific neurology dedicated to recognizing simple mathematics, it must NEED that to get by in the world. This fact argues that mathematics is a fundamental part of realty, not merely a construction of neurology and culture.

My favorite example is Phi. The Golden Ratio dictates much of architecture and art, but it also shows up all over the place in the natural world. Everything from snail shells to the ratio of finger joints to each other, to the spiral arms of the galaxy is dictated by Phi. Because why? Because 1.618 to one is a law of the universe.

So much for this argument. Next!

Yes Phantom remember: Without the Cause there can be no because.

Or put another way without the Lawgiver there can be no law.

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. (Albert Einstein)

Physics is mathematical not because we know so much about the physical world, but because we know so little; it is only its mathematical properties that we can discover. (Bertrand Russell)

Mathematics is the only good metaphysics. (William Thomson Baron Kelvin)

If there is a God, he's a great mathematician. (Paul Dirac)

The highest form of pure thought is in mathematics. (Plato)

Consequently he who wishes to attain to human perfection, must therefore first study Logic, next the various branches of Mathematics in their proper order, then Physics, and lastly Metaphysics. (Maimonides)