Mounties seized heirloom guns from High River home not in flood zone;
The RCMP's post-flood seizure of two family heirloom firearms is an outrageous trespass, says a High River man.
Greg Kvisle said the Mounties made three trips into his home before seizing the guns -- a 1912 Winchester long-barreled shotgun and a 50-year-old .303 rifle -- in the days following June's deluge.
"My grandfather passed them down to my dad, and when he passed away we brought them here for safekeeping," Kvisle said, adding neither weapon has been fired in decades.
A public meeting on the issue has been announced but I've not heard the date.
I hope that Solomon Friedman and the Alberta lawyer for the Canadian
Constitutional Foundation are in attendance.
Under Canada's current firearms laws, the RCMP are the greatest threat to Alberta residents Constitutional Rights.
If municipal governments start to replace the RCMP with municipal
police, it will echo down to Ottawa.
If not, it's only time until the next raids occur, there or elsewhere.
Others from across the province should show up to provide moral/political support for the High River residents.
This wasn't the first police state raid, it will take a provincial political
movement to prevent others.
At this point, Danielle Smith has given no indication she understands the import of whole communities being deprived of their Constitutional Rights.
The Premier should be there, too.
There should also be a call for a meeting where the Prime Minister has to answer for this. It was his choice to retain both the firearms laws and federal
indoctrination that led to this.
This wasn't the action of a single rogue cop. It was institutional.
if you go into my house and remove something while I am not there, you better have an inventory of what you took and you better return it undamaged. that applies to the rcmp. the rcmp, the government, and no one else has a right to take a gun or anything else from someone's home. wars have been fought about such egregious acts.
This confiscation smacks of Agenda21.
Once I believed Alberta was the last vestige of independence and liberty. Then something changed, namely the PC's were infiltrated by the progressives. Our Premier is an ex UN lawyer and a Bilderberger.
The slow creep of Agenda21 is eroding what few freedom we have left.
Meh. I'm not putting on my outrage pants, sorry.
If you have guns, they should be stored according to current laws and statutes. If you want to display them in your home, they can be altered so they cannot fire.
The RCMP officers have no choice.
If you have guns, they should be stored according to current laws and statutes.
In this case, it is alleged that the ECMP seized guns which were legally stored.
Maybe not your outrage pants perhaps you might check to see if you have any big boy pants? Law and order types, think less drones, disgusting the way your lack of consideration enslaves others. With a pretty little shrug and oh we'll.....a merrily you go skipping
Spit, rinse, repeat...,
What part of they went to this guy's house 3 times to find guns in plain view did you miss..?..on a high and dry street..
Kazing!
Used to be the best a Mountie could do was to save Nell from the clutches of Snidely Whiplash, but now evidently they can see through brick and mortar in their quest to steal guns in an area - flooded at that! - that they allegedly control.
Note that in the video there are no trigger locks and the bolts are in. He should consider himself lucky they were not confiscated permanently. Not exactly the guy I would want representing responsible owners.
North_of_60 is correct and The Grey Lady is spot on. It is precisely due to this kind of indifference and complacency that we continue to see the erosion and trampling of our most basic freedoms.
Don't be an idiot.
Sorry that could possibly come across as rude
I'll rephrase:
Perhaps you need to think if the Implications of your statement. You are condoning police forces entering your domicile repeatedly with no cause and on a repeated occasion they steal your property. That I'd hardly according to law of a free land. But if you think it's tickety boo, Ra ra vis boom ba, go go mr. Gestapo then please stand back and allow you be victimized next without any protest.
During any sort of evacuation .... from now on ... bring your guns with you .... for their own protection.
Easy tiger. All Im saying is using this guy as the poster boy is a mistake.
The case of Mr. Kvisle illustrates that the RCMP lied extensively about what they were doing and persist in lying about it. They claim the seizure of firearms was necessitated by discovering them in plain sight and incidental to a search for persons and animals stranded by the flooding and for bodies of any who might have died. (Note there have been no claims by the RCMP that their search actually discovered even one of such things.) But the Kvisle home was not in a flood area and the neighbourhood was not subject to an evacuation order. He happened to be away when the flood occurred and the police cordon wouldn't allow him to return home to his unflooded home in its unevacuated neighbourhood where his neighbours were still in their homes, except when they were persuaded to go next door and allow the RCMP to make three searches for confused occupants hiding from the floodwaters that weren't there or stranded pets or the bodies of people drowned in the flood that was never there before they finally discovered the hidden firearms "in plain sight" and took them away? The reason no charges are being laid in any of these supposed breaches of storage regulations is that even if they were breaches of storage regulations the absence of any legal basis for the police to have searched for and discovered the hidden firearms means any judge would dismiss the charges instantly, and the police and Crown prosecutors know it.
What is it Guy from Alberta about these lying liars who have infested the RCMP lying these lies to us over and over again that makes you believe they aren't lying to try to excuse what they did that was obviously wrong and that they obviously know they did wrong?
Backing away from the principle at play here is stone f&cking stupid...poster boy or not...
In all honesty they are likely protecting the populace from the police. Note: if you are on an empty street car with a knife you will be shot by the police. If you are hanging out in the airport with a stapler you will be electrocuted to death, if you are pulled over with friends you will be shot to death. Imagine if you were home alone sitting in your basement cleaning a gun or something ?? What would likely happen to you ??
Just google some of the examples of the RCMP's honesty and valor, try Darren Varley of Pincher Creek Alberta , he was treated fairly by the RCMP as will all the rest of us be. While the members bang young girls in police cruisers behind the local seed cleaning plant justice is being meted out down at the detachments.
All of these instances though will be dealt with honestly and fairly within the police system as they are able to police themselves without reproach. To think otherwise would be only a 'opeless fancy.
So smile, think happy thoughts and go about your business you proles !!!
Zactly.
Count me in with TrueNorthist @206. Again, the flood in Alberta has been extraordinary, and with it there have been extraordinary measures and extraordinary circumstances.
I view this story as the equivalent of speeding down a rural highway where there are few vehicles. You probably won't get caught, because that's not where the police hang out. But once in a while, you might, so it's not really sensible getting too upset about it, you broke the law.
Also, just a quick note - I have posted under different names here occasionally - and I'm a bit surprised at the vitriol and anger at the responses to my original comment.
Let's all try to remember to treat each other civilly - I hope we can talk without flaming each other. Also, it makes our side look like a bunch of poorly behaved teenagers.
Thx!!
If you have ever broken a speed limit, it should be no crime for someone to steal your car.
"Safe Storage" is not what it is painted to be. It's Orwellian doublespeak.
A trigger lock does not prevent a firearm from being stolen.
Storing a firearm in a locked cabinet merely announces to a burglar that the should break into it or rip it off the wall and steal it.
It took the RCMP three illegal searches of this persons house to locate and seize the hidden guns.
Thus hidden and unlocked is safer from thieves than locked and easily found.
The requirement under threat of Criminal Code and confiscation of unlocked firearms is there so that a home invader, or a wild animal attacking a human or domestic animal has a significant advantage over their victim.
The Auditor General's Report of 1993 found there was no evidence to support the criminal code amendments of Kim Campbell/Mulroney C-17(1991).
Note- someone who removes the firing pin in a shotgun renders it unable to fire. That is still illegal storage! Though the required trigger lock can be removed with a key or drilled out or the trigger guard unscrewed on many models, faster than re-inserting the firing pin.
"Safe Storage" is there to justify, to condition citizens to allow police to violate their Charter Right, (section 8) to be free from unreasonable search and seizure.
If trigger locks made us safer then police should be required to use them, at least until a Supervisor allows them to be removed. Sammy Yatsin would be in jail but alive.
With all due respect Guy, your original comment typifies the thought process of a poorly educated teenager. The fact that you admit to posting on SDA using various pseudonyms speaks to your character or lack thereof.
Is that civil enough?
We really need to know which fascist issued this illegal order,
either in the Alberta government, or the RCMP, or both, and how
far along the dismissal process is at this time for such actions.
Alberta also has to grow up, spend the money and get a responsible
provincial police force up and running like a normal jurisdiction.
All the people in High River were subjected to illigal B and Es when they were ordered out of town because their town was flooding. What all was stolen? People have computers in their houses - did the B&E include infecting their computers? Did all the jewelery "in open view" get removed for "safe keeping"? Did anyone loose car keys or house keys or kitchen knives?
These questions must be asked and answered. Did the B&E ransack file drawers and 'safe keep'/copy passports and income tax records?
There might be a lot more to this story and the outrage needs to be extended to (perhaps) the real motivation/orders to seize firearms, IMO.
Not a word from the Feds.
Were the RCMP marauders staying on to guard the houses left open after they broke down the doors? If peoples' valuables were stolen or their carpets were ruined by gumshoes who will be blamed who will be blamed if houses were left open?
Guess we'll have to wait for answers which may be a long time coming.
Imagine if you were home alone sitting in your basement cleaning a gun or something ?? What would likely happen to you ??
I am a cancer patient. As I write this I am sitting in a chair being infused w/ chemo drugs.
Two weeks ago, after finnishing a full week of treatment, I went home and had a reaction to the drugs. I am still not really sure what happenend.
unknown to me my family called 911 to get me medical help. The dispatcher sent out the rcmp.
These heros burst into my home, burst into the room which I was sleeping, when I reacted by shouting and demanding they leave my home they wrestled me to the ground and handcuffed me put me in a cruizer, placed me in a cell.
My wife was frantic to get me to a hospital, the rcmp tricked her into charged and held.
upon my release I was forced to sign papers preventing me going home or contacting my wife.
Call an ambulance and end up in Jail.
I guess my lawyer can handle it now.
Syncro - Dude! Why you harshing on me? :)
The RCMP are the feds...dumbass.
This will all change when Harper lives up on his 2006 promise to get us effective property rights legislation.
Any day now.......
It's me...going through Manopause...*sniff*
Heh Synchro. Yeah, I read my first comment, it's kinda teenager-y but whatevs. :)
I guess my comments are more meant to reflect that we conservatives/right wingers (whatever we want to call ourselves) are seriously at risk of being outvoted and forever marginalized politically for the foreseeable future.
We have to pick our battles, our heroes and our issues very carefully for the low-info voters who believe anything they hear (like the women who bought tampons before the US election because they thought President Romney would outlaw them).
Most of the people I talk to and work with still think Harper is teh evil, and still has his secret right wing agenda (I guess it's been secret and not implemented for a long time now though, supersecret??).
Conclusion? I'm really despondent about the fuiture of conservatism - not because we're not ideologically pure enough, but because our numbers are becoming fewer and fewer. Cheers!
the rcmp do have a choice, and that is to obey the laws they are charge to enforce, which means they legally had NO rite going into this home, fullstop!!!!Now the question is how did they know there were fire arms in that house, because they kept going back till they found them. As public servants they should be held to a higher standard of conduct. What part of that is beyond yer comprehension? I find idiots like you always bark about "facts" after the fact. If this didn't happen no one except the owner and maybe a few friends would have known any of the facts about the guns, and you would be barking a stupid "after the fact" opinion
Again Erik...with all due respect, you are not a conservative. You cede the battleground to the idiots rather than educating them. Considering your line of work and the study it took to achieve I am flabbergasted.
Now is the time to define the war. IMHO.
I have one last thing to say to those who see no problem here. Those who willingly trade their freedom for security end up with neither. That is the principle at stake here which has nothing to do with the victim being a "poster boy" or not or how the guns were stored. In fact all the ridiculous regulations concerning the storage, a creation of the Liberals but not dealt with by the Conservatives, are a prime example of the state trampling on another of our traditional freedoms.
Synchro - your comment about me trying to convert the liberal masses reminds me of the Chinese proverb:
"Trying to [insert example, eg convert liberals] is like trying to teach pigs to sing. Not only will you become frustrated, but the pigs will become angry".
Cheers!
Do you really expect to convince the lefties that we are right? Get real. We're losing the battle because we allow ourselves to be pushed around. And they are ready to push us futher.
You have to decide if you are right or wrong. If you are wrong, join them. If you are right, you must push back even harder.
My ancestors came here to escape the very crap that is going on here now. I've seen communism in its real form. If you don't fight them now, when will you? This is not prissy stuff like which hockey team is better. This affects lives, my children's and grandchildren's lives. They deserve better - with no excuses because it doesn't look good to fight back.
Grow a pair.
They are pigs Erik, in every sense of the word...I'm prepared to get in the slop to fight them because you meet the enemy where they are...
" Kvisle's guns must have been situated in open view, because it would have taken very little to uncover them, RCMP Sgt. Josee Valiquette said."
HUH,the RCMP went there three times. They were not in plain sight or they would have been found on the first illegal entry.
" If they happened to open a closet, it is in plain sight...these firearms were inappropriately secured," Valiquette said.
C'mon now,anything that is hidden will be in plain sight once it is found. King Tut's tomb was in plain sight once it was found. This cop Valiquette must think that she is still in Quebec.
I'm going to share a story about my encounter with the world's stupidest fire marshall and his buddies. It is related,but turned out differently.
The next Saturday after the flood( 8 days later),I returned to my place to pick up some fresh clothes and check on my place.
I live on the fourth floor of a building. My place was fine,but the basement apts,electrical room,etc.were gone,eight foot ceilings,7 feet of water. The people down there lost everything that they did not carry out. We were evacuated at 4:30 in the morning.
Anyways,I went back 8 days later. I needed some stuff,especially cleaner clothes and other stuff.On my way out I came across the basement workers barricading the doors to the building.
I'm paraphrasing.
Me: WTF?
Them: You have to leave,no one is allowed in this building.
Me: No,there are people staying on the other floors,you can't do that.
Them: The fire marshall says we have to.
Me: Go ahead,I'm staying in.
One of them: I'm not sealing people in,this is BS.
Me: You're right.
Ten minutes later. A knock on my door.
Fire marshall (with construction foreman):You have to leave ,we have to secure the building.
Me: Sorry no.You cannot barricade the building unless you know that it is empty. I'm not going. I want access to my stuff and I want to be able to check on my stuff.
FM: No,you have to go. Your stuff will be safer once the doors are barricaded.
Me: Will you post a guard?
FM: The police will keep an eye on the building.
Me: I will stay and keep a better eye on my stuff.
FM: The building is not safe. There are no lights in the stairwells or hallways.
Me: I have a flashlight. I will take the risk and accept the responsibility.
FM: If we cannot seal the building,the apts will not be secure.
Me: Maybe,but they can still come through the first floor apts.
FM: Get out now,or I will have the CPS remove you.
Me: Cheers,nice talking to you.
Five minutes later. A knock on my door. FM and three cops and the very quiet foreman.
CPS: We know you're upset,but you have to leave.We have to secure the building.
Me: You cannot barricade a building when there may be tenants inside. (I'm thinking,is stupidity transmitted by 'official airwaves'}.
CPS: Show us your ID.
Me: No.I live here,here are the keys to the door. No.
CPS: Look ,just give us your first name.
Me. Here,use this. (I had a book by Walter Mosely in my hand).
CPS:Don't be a smartass.
Me: I'm not.
CPS: You got to go,we have to secure the building.
Me: If I leave,how do you know that my woman is not sitting in the kitchen?
CPS with the sloping forehead pushes the door and says: We now have the right to search your place to "check on the welfare of the people inside".
Me: No you don't. I know that law and I have used it. I am posing an argument. You cannot search under that pretense.
FM: Why do you have to be like that? We are only concerned about your safety.
Me: I'm concerned about my safety also. And I'm concerned about the safety of my fellow tenants and my stuff.
CPS: You're going. What apartments have people in them?
Me: At least one on this floor,maybe two or three others. If I knew,I wouldn't tell you.
I got my stuff. I was leaving when all this started ,it was not a problem.
We get outside. There is the FM and the slope.
I go to sidewalk and stop. We are eyeing each other. I shrug. They tell me to go.
I say no. I want to take pictures of the doors being barricaded. The FM flipped. He was a hair away from pounding me. Got in my face and told me that he was only looking after my ass. I smiled and said " I'm really tired of your bullshit" .
The sloped cop put his gloves on.
I left.
The building was not barricaded. I did not show ID. I was not arrested.
All through this,no one but myself was concerned about the consequences of a fire in a building with people inside and the doors blocked.
We were out 35 days,7 weeks. Seven apartments looted,(32apts. before flood,27 after) and one had squatters. Very few cared,we are tenants,not homeowners,and most don't have spare cash to contribute to mayoral campaigns.
You can make a difference. Be prepared to take a lump or two along the way.
That was in YYC wallyj..correct..?..
You bet.
CPS= Calgary Police Service.
35 days living Amish,and when I talked to the city,province,about it,I got less than I gave to the cops.
And when we got power back,the Enmax guy told me that there was still 1800 apts without power in the city.
He was mad. They were working 12 hour shifts,seven days a week. Big money for sure,but their work was being ignored,and they were getting shit on.
Nenshi was gladhanding and collecting donations in the wealthy districts,and he still is.
I came across some scary stuff in my neighbourhood,like Katrina crazy people,but that is another story.
Did you get your $1250?
" Nenshi was gladhanding and collecting donations in the wealthy districts"
I have to clarify that. He was and is , collecting campaign donations,not donations to the people that need them.
I will post a clip of him on the second or third day after the flood.
He talks about being in Roxboro and Rideau halping out the people in their " 700 or 900 sq.foot houses".
Spin,spin,BS. Those are two of the richest areas in Calgary. There are more 700 sq. foot garages than houses. 900 sq.foot properties cannot be bought unless you can arrange a MILLION dollar mortgage.
Nenshi is an ass. Calgary loves him. I'm moving to Ontario. At least there the enemy is easily identified.
Strad,Yes I did,and it helped out immensely...
I likely spent about $2,500 extra bucks over the 5 weeks.Econolodge was 150 a night.The T&C was 95 a night(and better).I stayed with an old man(a friend) lots,no charge,but I owe him plenty for his kindness. I stayed with others,and that was free,but I bought whenever possible because I could and they deserved it,.
...The couple behind me in line had a baby in a stroller. They were good people,happy as all heck. They lived one block away from me. I can see their place from my balcony. They were collecting $3,000 in cards that day.They stayed at grandma's place while their electricity was out. They were out 10 days.
...thanks for asking. But why do you ask?
Just curious if my involuntary servitude helped.
Also wondering why you are against property seizure in some instances, but not others?
canadians "strong and free"...not any more.
Well said . This is the issue. A police force acting on illegal orders before even a state of emergency into private homes without warrants. During a flood with no looters. Than lying threw their teeth. With flimsy excuses.
The lack of any of Alberta's opposition party's, of this home invasion by Police is disturbing in the least . Mortifying if they knew.
At the very least we have to know who issued the orders , than why.
This is an outrageous breach of Common Law.Any way you look at it. As you say , what else is missing? The Media has avoided this except for the Sun Like its the black death. Why? Particularly Alberta's Press.That is another question we should ask.
" Also wondering why you are against property seizure in some instances, but not others?"
Why do you say that?
Look asshole, you can pretend that you are a fine tuned instrument,come and f**k with us in the real world.8nnqzb