65 Replies to “Explaining the Angry Atheist”

  1. cappi,….U should do a piece on why most religious folk always try and shove their STUPID beliefs down everyone’s throat!!!!

  3. NME666
    Other than the JoHo’s and maybe the Mormons I don’t know of any religion that tries to shove their “stupid” beliefs down everyone’s throat. You sound like a very angry person
    when it comes to religion. What was it that makes you this way?

  4. Between the seething hatred expressed by many leftists and the frothing anger of your average atheist polite conversation can be a minefield for the unsuspecting religious conservative.

  5. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever had a religious person do that (my Baptist grandparents aside, I guess, but I didn’t see much of them). The occasional dutiful, diffident invitation to a church service is about as aggressive as it’s ever gotten.

  7. I believe the universe is an amazing place and I’m a pretty happy person. Many atheists are the same.
    Should I believe in God (or Allah, Buddha, the tree spirit, moon goddess etc) because it makes me happy?
    Or because it’s true?

  8. Captain, you are overlooking one thing about angry left wing atheists – many of them have replaced membership in one cult with membership in another cult. They are green religionists or they are members of the Marxist cult.
    johnbrooks, you ask “I still don’t know what Atheists believe in”.
    As an actual atheist, who is a libertarian conservative, on a physical science level we do not “believe” in anything. Things are either facts, which we KNOW, or they are unknown. Things either have an explanation which is known, or they are not yet explainable due to our current state of ignorance. Do not interpret that to mean that I have “faith” that there is an answer to everything or that it will be found some day by man. Rather take it to mean I have seen enough evidence to extrapolate that all physical things can be explained scientifically. Whether we are bright enough to be able to figure these answers out is another question.
    On a moral/ethical level I cannot speak for other atheists, but as I said up front, being a libertarian conservative I “believe” in, as in I advocate and adhere to, classical liberal principles such as small government and individual rights – which are consistent with some of the moral tenets found in judeao-christian religion such as the prohibition on killing your fellow man, treating others as you would like to be treated etc. etc. This thinking comprises part of my belief system. I am capable of explaining each of them rationally and offering proof for why I think they are optimal behaviors for human society.
    Of course all of this is not at all the same as believing in an imaginary being, which I also think is your right to do as long as you do not impose the rules of your religion on others.

  9. We believe in many of the things that religious people believe in, just NOT in a God, who may or may not be watching over us.
    Most members of religious Faiths that I have met had better hope I’m right, because with only a few exceptions,most of them are pious hypocrites bound for purgatory, at best.
    That being said,I don’t care what your belief is,if it makes you a better and more content person, but those that use their religion as a shield for their rotten,selfish personalities get short shrift from me.
    There IS a lot to be angry about,but there’s also a lot to be thankful for,as Old Louis sang. Instead of wasting time arguing with one another about beliefs,perhaps it would be better and more beneficial if we concentrated on what has to be done to make our tiny portion of the universe a better place,and adherence to some of the rules laid down by those old religions are a good place to start.
    I’ve always tried to live by The Ten Suggestions,as passed down to Charlton Heston on a Hollywood movie lot by Cecil B. Demille, and it hasn’t done me any harm 😉

  10. Most of those who claim to follow Christianity had best hope they aren’t Judged by the standards they espouse.
    There are rules.

  11. I think the Captain is giving the Atheists too much credit; and believe that the cause of their hostility towards religion is quite a bit more simple, and insidious than that.
    First, I too consider myself ‘agnostic’, but I differ from the Captain in the sense that I was not raised in a religious home. In fact, for most of my life I identified myself as an ‘atheist’, but have (as Obama says) “evolved” my point of view. Perhaps “evolved” is not the best description; a better word would be “refined” my views. As the Captain mentions, for the most part, I was a “c’est la vie” atheist; but, after years of being shamed by the behavior of what I will call (big ‘A’)”Atheists”, I was forced to reevaluate my position on such matters; hence the description ‘agnostic’.
    All of that said, I disagree with the Captain’s assessment of the ‘whys’ of the “Angry Atheist”. I will suggest that the root of an Atheist’s anger towards religion has nothing to do with a)past grievances; or b) a desire to be part of a group. Now, I do agree with the Captain that Atheism is naught but another religion/cult; as it shares many traits with religion/cults, most importantly ‘certainty’ in their beliefs. That’s why the Captain and I do not belong to a cult; because we are not so arrogant to assume certainty in such matters. With that said, I understand that the certainty a Christian(for example) has regarding God is a completely different matter than that of an Atheist; as there are often spiritual truths and evidence in the Christian’s experience which enables such certainty, but I digress.
    The reason Atheists are hostile to religion is very straight forward: JUDGEMENT.
    In my experience, it bothers an Atheist to no end to consider that their actions WILL or CAN be JUDGED. Whether it’s the final judgment of God, or the judgment of another soul, or most importantly, the judgment of self; the very thought of ‘judgment’ to some predetermined standard is anathema to the Atheist and MUST BE DESTROYED AT ALL COSTS. This is why an Atheist gets agitated when it’s simply suggested that someone might pray for them.
    Without judgment, the Atheist is free to create their own moral code giving them whatever flexibility they wish; and, the flexibility to change that code if it doesn’t suit them at the time.
    In a nutshell, the Atheist cannot allow religion to exist; else risk having to look in the mirror and evaluate their own lives. THAT is the scariest thought of all for an Atheist, for it opens the door to the possibility that they might not be able to justify their own behaviors.JMO

  12. cause they are trying to ‘save’ you
    if you consider that the Muzzies want to kill you, not “save” you, you might feel a little stupid for having such hostility to nice folks

  13. Probably better an ‘angry atheist’ than a wet noodle agnostic who can’t decide what they believe. And really don’t care…kinda like lukewarm coffee.

  14. I would diverge on a couple of points from the captain’s analysis and from one of the more currently popular ‘new athiest’ apologias as hinted at above. To the captians assessment that a great many of the new angry athiest varieties have been wounded by bad religion I would simply make the point that membership in the angry kind of fundamentalist religion has certain psychological corelates. Angry religion provides a sense of self worth to the follower in need of such (as a result of being included into a group who is demonstrably better (to the believer) than some despised other or outsider, and to the leaders a cadre of devoted devotees. This doesn’t require a reactive frame. Which brings me to the wonderfully ironic epistemic slight of hand represented by the new athiest doctrine that our propositionally stated belief that there is no God and that all unique insights of religion are absurd are in fact “non-beliefs,” and as such exempt from the usual epistemic criticism (i.e., we get to level methodological criticisms at religionists but they don’t get to assess us by the same criteria). It is not a particularly admirable move or indicative of good character.

  15. I kind of thought that the Captain might raise at least a couple of hackles with that provocative caption.
    I have had the usual door knocker suspects try to convert me to their religion, as well as a few others that thought I was “not religious enough”. I have my own beliefs, but, whatever the level of commitment of various extended family members, by and large no one in our extended family bothers anyone else because the memory of persecution and even death in the Soviet Union by the “New Soviet Man” atheistic adherents is too fresh.

  16. I’ve been all three – atheist, agnostic and now a Christian.
    (A commenter here once called me a “sectarian” Christian although I’m not sure how he determined that.)
    1. I was raised in a non-churchgoing home and became an atheist by the time I was a teenager. I wasn’t an “angry atheist” at first but eventually did develop a particular dislike for Christianity.
    2. However it gradually occurred to me that this attitude was somewhat arrogant. Who was I, after all, to say categorically that there is no God? Thus in my mid-twenties I became an agnostic. I believed that neither I nor anyone else could ever know if God existed. What would be the test or evidence that would prove it, anyway?
    3. How wrong I was. By the grace of God I came to realize that He does exist. My ensuing search for Him led me to become, of all things, against my former prejudice, a Christian. That was over 30 years ago and I still am convinced Jesus is the one and only Son of God who died to save us all.
    I now attend an evangelical church. (I’m not a member though so, sorry glasnost, I don’t think I’m sectarian, but, of course you may be right.)

  17. Would it be reasonable to say that you’re against open-mindedness of any kind?

  18. P.S.
    I’m not in any way angry with the folks here, atheist or otherwise. (Not even the ones who rail against the “STUPID beliefs” of Chrstians.)

  19. Sean and dmorris said it precisely. For a practicing rational atheist it is distracting to “believe” in anything. Since human knowledge is by definition limited it follows that human understanding of the universe around us will always be limited. What is important to the rational atheist is that with all of the discovery to date of the world around us, a mystical explanation is thus far unnecessary.
    Indiana, you’re projecting far too much. For most rational atheists, it’s irrelevant to us what you choose to believe in. We don’t hate you, we don’t get angry about you; we pity you that you need a psychological crutch to deal with the world around you.
    “The reason Atheists are hostile to religion is very straight forward: JUDGEMENT”
    Dead wrong. Atheists are opposed to religion when it pushes its evangelism on those around it. We’re not interested in your imposing your moral judgment of the conduct others.

  20. yup, I knew that I would roust a few bible thumpers with my former post:-)))
    one of the christian tenets is (according to the new testement) to spread the word of god, and most, not just the JW, do this. I feel they do it just to try and confirm their own faith, because if U can convince some one else to believe it tends to vindicatee your own belief. Now another reason I find many christian in sync with lefties on a certain level is that religion is a “group think” mode just like leftism is
    original rick, angry, no just pissed off that these religious folk keep trying to”convert” me, and show absolutely NO respect for my beliefs, that’s something well beyound a christians ability to grasp, as they consider what they are doing as for my best interests. U see I’m actually a fence sitter, because atheism is an absolute, and only idiots believe in absolutes(outside of math that is). So Rick, what christians need to do is save themselves from their own judgementalism and hypocracy and leave us non-belevers to our own vises, I can find hell all on my own, just follow kristian
    and as to captain angery atheist nonsense, he is actually identifying psychological characteristic that premeets all human demographics, it ain’t unique to “atheists”, so it shouldn’t be characterized as a atheist trait, but discussed in a broad sense
    and a qualifier, yes I was raised in a “kristian” home, went to a kristian school, and dumped my religion when I realized that I was being fed a bunch of lies (not the religion one, bet every day factual ones), that was when I was about 14

  22. For most Christians the motive is simple, and it isn’t in order to disrespect you or your beliefs.
    If, for example, you were in a desert with no water in sight most people would tell you if they knew of a spring. If you were about to step into a nest of rattlesnakes the average person would try to warn you.
    Once you let them know you don’t want their meddling most people, Christians included, will leave you alone. (Your close family members might be an exception and find it harder to take no for an answer.)
    I have to think Ben Franklin was right. “A Man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

  23. I can believe that there are atheists/agnostics who are open-minded and loathe to tolerate the intolerable. I also believe that militant (angry, if you will) atheists are fundamentalists who don’t arrive simply at the conclusion that God is not real but that they should replace Him with themselves. They are free from the judgment, rules and beliefs that others adhere to, at least they believe that. They then proceed to morph the world into something they would like it to be. They are as dangerous as Islamists or any leftist. I’d worry less about the do-gooder Christian and more about the guy who thinks that it is his mission to mould the world in his dreadful self-loathing image.

  24. GregW – It is said that if you seek God, you have already found Him (of course, by the grace of God, as you said) Maybe God found you, and called to you. “If God is possible, therefore God exists, because it is impossible to have a ‘possible’ God” – St. Anselm. Not sure what this means but thought I’d throw it in anyway.

  25. I have heard many people suggest religion is a crutch, that may be so, yet I have observed that many who are strong in their faith are often extremely strong in character, self assured, kind and true individuals.
    I have also observed that as atheism has become more acceptable, the atheists anger and hatred towards religion has taken on a new life, at least the new generation of atheism has. I guess if I wanted to live a guilt free life it would make sense to declare myself an atheist and live without restrictions or fear of repercussions.
    Then there is agnostic, leaving that door open just in case.
    Regardless, I long for the days when we could all sit at a table together, speak our thoughts, respect each other and know that we were all searching for the truth.

  26. “…yet I have observed that many who are strong in their faith are often extremely strong in character, self assured, kind and true individuals.”
    Be careful of superficial appearances. If you think you understand everything there is that needs understanding, then of course you have confidence. Religion provides that certainty. But it may be nothing more than driving on a highway blindfolded and missing accidents by sheer luck. Witchhunters in the 16th-17th centuries were strong in their faith too, and just look how many women perished because of that strength. Joseph Stalin worshipped a philosophical system called State Marxism, and look at all the millions that perished because of it.
    “I guess if I wanted to live a guilt free life…”
    Atheisim isn’t about avoiding guilt; indeed, it’s not really about morality or ethics at all. It’s about recognizing that our universe may only be the complex workings of sub-stomic particles. It’s not that atheists believe that god doesn’t exist. That’s belief. There’s simply nothing in the universe observed to date that shows a divine being is necessary for its workings.
    For an atheist’s view of personal responsibility and guilt, you need to look to the writings of Jean Paul Sartre and the existentialists.
    But your comments are thoughtful and possibly a good place to start a discussion. Your last sentence is interesting, especially this bit,
    “…respect each other and know that we were all searching for the truth.”
    Indeed. We all look for truth, an explanation that allows us to reconcile the world as it is with what we wish or hope it could be. What is so typical in religious or philosophical debates is the customary lack of respect for other views.
    Larben, if you’re going to drag St.Anselm into this then you’d best acknowledge St.Thomas Aquinas a couple of centuries later who showed all the ways that Anselm was wrong. In summary, Aquinas showed that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated by logical trickery.

  27. Oh, that’s true enough. I’ll go further—the nations that turn the most violently on God are the ones who know they’re rubbish and have contributed nothing to civilization except an example of mistakes from whom the wise may learn. The Teigs, the French and the French Canadians are just three examples I could cite.
    The atheists of Catholic and Muslim nations are at least worthy of pity. Having been kept ignorant of the truth by the the priests and imams, it is at least understandable that upon learning of the lies Rome and Mecca have told them, the sum of all faith as far as they know, they reject all belief in God.
    The atheists of Protestant nations have no such excuse. They are, with very few exceptions, little more than spoiled children that their parents could not or would not discipline properly. If there is no God, everything is permitted and they can do what they jolly well please as long as the “pigs” don’t hear about it, and the devil who doesn’t exist take their “fascist” and “fundie” fathers for grumbling ineffectually about their drinking and carousing and refusing to go to meeting on Sunday and do their homework during the week.
    With not a disciplined bone in their bodies, it’s no surprise precious few of these ever amount to much, employable at menial labour or make-work government jobs, if at all, or living off relatives or friends. If the rest of us are lucky, their death years before their time from liver failure, venereal disease or a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head is mourned only by their mothers, if even they. If we aren’t…well, the results range from Adam Lanza to Mao Zedong.

  29. Any old soldier will tell you
    “never willingly walk into a mine field”
    Unless you are a Combat Engineer…
    Ask an Agnostic anything, ’till 2 AM PST reply guaranteeing.
    dwright (Dale Wright)

  30. larben, you said, “Maybe God found you, and called to you.”
    I agree. In my case it was only after an experience that convinced me that God exists, that I began to try to find out more about Him. Prior to that I had no real interest in or expectation of finding God (or of Him finding me).

  31. I’m an atheist because I don’t see any strong reason to believe in God.
    I see absolutely zero reason to believe in Christianity or any other organized reason.
    As Ayn Rand said, one should be an intransigent rather than a militant atheist because the opposition is unworthy and militancy on this topic just wastes too much of one’s valuable time.

  32. GregW – Paul Johnson on prayer: In prayer, however insignificant and lowly a creature we may be, we address privately, but directly and intimately, the most powerful ‘creature’ in existence, the architect of the entire universe. He also notes: If there is no God, who or what is compelling us? Of course, the greatest virtue of all may be patience; something I suspect atheists are lacking in.

  33. cgh – Evelyn Waugh on the Index (Index Librorum Prohibitorum) I find it a convenient excuse for not reading, Sarte.

  34. God loves us all, believer and non-believer alike.
    Anyone blessed with belief and salvation cannot claim it is due to any goodness on his/her part.

  35. I hate AA meetings.
    I had to demand a written and signed contact from my Mother and Father out of lack of trust.
    Today.
    HOW WAS YOUR DAY ???
    whiners…
    Special place in hell…
    Read Dante s Inferno and call me in the Morning.
    dwright

  36. Wet noodles can’t be open minded, they’re followers of the the next Big Idea.

  38. Believers often accuse atheists of amorality but morality and values didn’t come into existence because of Jesus. The Ten Commandments are generally found in most religions and tribal societies.
    They’re really just the principals that humans need in order to live together in society.
    And the history if Christianity and other religions certainly shows us that societies built on faith can be cruel and warlike. While modern societies, in which religion has been largely excised from power, have been largely safe and peaceful.
    I find much to like about Christians. Indeed I think the reformation and a personal relationship with god may be an important trigger for free market economies because amid the dislocation from creative destruction people can take comfort in their faith and church community. Sometimes I wonder if its the decline of faith that has given rise to statism as people trade one father figure for another.

  39. I could care less what others believe or don’t believe. No skin off my behind.
    All I care about is does it make them a better person or is it a vehicle for their a$$holery. More often then not atheists are like the extreme contingent of the Gay movement. For some reason they require everyone else on the planet to acknowledge and agree with their life style/view or they are belligerent POS.
    This tells me they are not so much for their cause as they are insecure egotists having a two year old temper tantrum. I know what to do with those. Ignore them, Walk over/ walk by them and get on with my own business.

  40. Grey Lady, if atheists are such rabble rousers perhaps you could name one of their organizations, a protest or incident they’ve been involved with, attacks in their name, or just anything recently that comes to mind done in the name of atheism?
    Seriously, what are you talking about?

  42. “I’m an atheist because I don’t see any strong reason to believe in God.”
    And I am a Christian because I see every reason to believe in God. The evidence is everywhere IF you are open minded enough to examine them without prejudice. Unfortunately many many many people are completely incapable of doing so. That doesn’t stop them from angrily spreading their lack of insight. I suspect that is what angers them most. They suspect that there is something more but since they don’t get it they are rabidly angry at those who do get it.

  43. Chip,
    I was talking from my personal experience,
    ” For some reason they require everyone else on the planet to acknowledge and agree with their life style/view or they are belligerent POS.”
    This has been my experience, of course there are lovely atheists, wonderful mature people that go about their lives in their non-belief. As it should be.
    My feeling is that sometimes those insecure ones take comfort in the growing number of their movement, armed with Dawkins and friend, their messiah of dogma, and are empowered with their self righteous rage at the non-non-believer and feel it is their right to mock, call names, belittle all those that are not that their rational, emotionally secure, there is no spaghetti eating monster in space scientific level of mental acuity.
    it’s a winner of a strategy for sure.

  44. The Ten Commandments are generally found in most religions and tribal societies.
    But the principle of one law for all is not.
    Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
    The same with punishments that fit the crime.

  45. Chip,
    I don’t think (most) Christians would accuse atheists of amorality. I was an atheist for many years but wasn’t amoral. Many of my best friends today are atheists, and they are fine people indeed. The problem with morality and atheism (or more precisely, reductionist materialism) is that you cannot derive morality from purely material roots. Many, many people have tried, but none have succeeded. There have been a few truly great atheist philosophers (primarily Nietzsche) and they all recognize this. Weak thinkers like Sam Harris or Steven Pinker are not up to the task and tend to write what amounts to self-refuting nonsense on this topic. Nietzsche saw with open eyes the full implications of a cosmos without God, and it terrified him. The vast majority of atheists today do not comprehend any of this (i sure didn’t) and hence are able to live productive, moral lives unaware that they are in fact “borrowing” their moral code (mostly) from the Judeo-Christian tradition.

  46. If fanaticism is defined as having a foundation built upon Rock rather than the sand of the next Big Idea thought up by someone just as fallible as you, then yes.
    The success of the Christian countries didn’t come from Big Ideas.That’s not the foundation. It comes from Christian principles such as equality before the law. One law for all which allows free enterprise to create unhindered by the entrepreneurs social station in life.

  47. I am a Christian who attends an evangelical church, but so far I haven’t been very successful at the evangelical part. I spent 45 years going through stages of being agnostic, skeptical, unbeliever and finally outright denier before I finally found God. I never thought of myself as an atheist though. Maybe I was never angry enough, LOL!
    I strongly suggest reading “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel and “Basic Christianity” by John Stott, for anybody willing to spend the time, and they are both quick to read. They make it pretty hard NOT to believe in Jesus as our Lord and savior.
    The Mormons and JWs think they believe in Jesus, but their version certainly does not agree with Biblical Christianity. I guess that comes from believing someone who felt it necessary to revise the Bible because Jesus clearly says anyone who comes after Him is false. When I asked a Mormon friend if Mormons are Christian, he replied “Oh, yes, The BEST Christians”. I think I’m gonna need some help there.

  48. I have no problem with religion and faith–rituals are important to fostering mental and social robustness; it is idealism that is a problem. As Dosteovsky remarked, he is an idealist and thus cruel. Or as Nietzsche observed, every syllogism is a slander against reality. The Dawkins type atheists seem to me to worship logic and idealism at the expense of reality. Sure they are much more empirical than Creationists, but they cling to logic for their own psychic needs to become idealistic and un empirical.

  49. Generalizations are easily forged in the heat of discussion over religion; here’s a few more. I find those of an anti-faith nature tend to know very little about the nature of those living a life of faith. Anti-religion people seem to think that those with faith tend to sit around and worry and fret all day long about the lack of religious faith in the world. The people of faith that I know tend to be more judgmental about their own behavior than the behavior of others.

  50. Another excellent little book by John Stott is “Why I Am a Christian.” It’s a reply to the famous essay by Bertrand Russell.
    Then there’s the classic by CC Lewis “Mere Christianity”. Another fine book is “Knowing God” by JI Packer.
    Of course I didn’t read any of these books when I was an atheist/agnostic when they would perhaps have been the most help, but maybe there are some out there who will.

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