It's Probably Nothing

The cuts are a lie. Greek government workers don't get laid off, they just get furloughed into a sort of 'parasite pool' with 60% of the pay. It's like they're all cops or something.

The Greeks have nobody to blame but themselves. Their country is going in the shytter and there's nothing they can do about it. They drove the car off the cliff a LONG time ago.

Guess they’ve finally figured out that 10% of the population being illegal immigrants feeding off their socialist trough is not a healthy way to run an economy.

At least their sharing equally in something now, although sharing in poverty and misery is not a sensible value to rational people, aka conservative people.

And yet a good chunk of North America follows a similar path along it's merry way.

It is going to get a lot uglier for the Greeks before they get close to matching the money going out with that coming in. This will take a generation or more to correct. After everyone gets really pessimistic about this, consider that there are a bunch more countries that will be in the same boat in the next decade.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with Greece's problems.

There's really no alternative at this point. Greece doesn't have much choice but to default, form its own currency and withdraw from the Euro. Greece does not now and will not in the future have the capacity to carry this debt load.

Oh well, back to the military dictatorship for Greece. I feel bad for the people suffering though, it may be their fault; but just like Immigration in Canada, politicians & bureaucrats in Canada have gone against the wishes of the people for YEARS. It's hard to stop once the political classes decide they want something.

And let's not be harsh, the USA is on this glide path right now, and if you think things will be peachy for Canada if the US goes to hell you are really naive.

To go Weimar you need a printing press .

Let me emphasize here that the current economic problem is government spending and debt, not the economy per se.

Unfortunately most Greeks like most Canadians and Americans who vote for socialism and socialist politicians will never understand the consequences of their actions. The answer to the inevitable failure will always be more socialism. I too would like to believe "they'll finally learn"...but they won't. Unthinking intellectual lock-step driven by basic greed and economic illiteracy will always produce more of the same. My main concerns are: can we firewall ourselves from them and can we avoid the impoverished future they seem so desperate to create?

Unfortunately most Greeks like most Canadians and Americans who vote for socialism and socialist politicians will never understand the consequences of their actions. The answer to the inevitable failure will always be more socialism. I too would like to believe "they'll finally learn"...but they won't. Unthinking intellectual lock-step driven by basic greed and economic illiteracy will always produce more of the same. My main concerns are: can we firewall ourselves from them and can we avoid the impoverished future they seem so desperate to create?

LAS >

“Illegal immigration has nothing to do with Greece's problems.”

I’m glad you raised the issue; you’re not the only one who buys into the globalist propaganda and people need to be enlightened.

Indeed Greece’s illegal immigration problem is vast, and doesn’t make the MSM often. Here are some starter stories for those that aren’t aware of the problem.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444506004577617383132000476.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2184455/Greeces-purge-illegal-immigrants-Thousands-rounded-ready-deportation.html

Gee, the US national debt is only 100% of GDP, and their annual deficit is only 8.5% of GDP. They've got nothing to worry about.

LAS #2 >

From the Research Institute of European and American Studies (RIEAS):

“Illegal immigration is actually an asymmetrical threat aimed at destabilizing the Greek state and it is of critical interest to view it under the prism of Ankara’s stance concerning Greece’s role in the region. In simple terms Turkey uses the masses of desperate people being gathered in its territory in order to inflict great losses in the Greek economy and alter its ethnic and social profile. The latest information that have verified the above writings are videos and images depicting the Turkish Coast Guard deploring immigrants in the Greek Islands; that were shown in Greek national TV without any denial from the other side.”

http://rieas.gr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=812&Itemid=89

Call me cynical but I'd really like to know the amount of young twenty somethings that are sitting at home after college, waiting for their dream job to appear, when there are lots of lower paying jobs out there, that they could be doing in the mean time.

I know a couple young twenty something educated kids and when I look at them and how they think I can't even imagine them reproducing, it scares the cr-- out of me, they seem so clueless.

That's why I'd love to know the ratio of useful twenty somethings, to the apparently useless ones.

If it favors the lazy ones and their "nice" parents we need a famine.

Myself I think we are closer to following Greece socially at least then people realize.

They're going to death-march all those immigrants into the Med, wait and see. Stupid bastiges.

greeks are not supid people, but they do have the capacity to eventually sire up to that level

they have "worked" very hard to achieve this mess, so lets cheer them in their sucess!!!

So the country that devised democracy is getting its a^& bit off by leftards. The irony is just to good.
Alan Johnson was doing great,until he made the very common mistake of equating the facist Golden Dawn with the right. Facism never was,is not,and never will be on the right.It is a leftard philosophy.

But how can illigal immiration be the problem as reported by the newspapers and the government. I mean-LAS says it isn't so and he seems to always be right.
Perhaps :LAS shuold just go away. Then again, I can ignore OK very easily, it shouldn't be difficult with LAS.
BTW, is it true that LAS stands for "lazy and stupid"?

Looks like Obummer stole the idea from Putin.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/25/is_obama_taking_ad_ideas_from_vladimir_putin

videos and images depicting the Turkish Coast Guard deploring immigrants in the Greek Islands

Hell, I don't need the Turkish Coast Guard; I can deplore those immigrants from home.

The socialists within my family (mine and parents generation) have told me that those greeks need to start paying their taxes, and that is the real reason for their government not having enough money.

My youngest daughter was having a "discussion" with another girl in the bakery she's working in, the other girl told my daughter Mackenzie how B. Hussien is the only answer for the USA, Mackenzie responded with a "Ronald Reagan is who they need to dig themselves out of this hole, he'd have this all cleaned up in the first term, and the second Romney term will be all gravy". Apparently that ended the conversation, and her boss in the bakery gave Mack a raise last week, seems she really likes to work and others have noticed.

NME666 @ 7:35pm >

At least most of them can use proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling.

What kind of retard can't spell but thinks they have a written opinion anyone else would listen to?

Knight, your first link is paywalled. Your second link is devoid of numbers re. the Greek economy.

Is illegal immigration a big problem? Yes.
Did it cause Greece's financial collapse? No.

It's a drop in the bucket compared to their real problems:
Not paying taxes,
40% of the population working for the government,
Full retirement at 55 on pensions far too rich for what the economy could afford.

Some jerk of a Greek cabinet minister blames immigrants as the cause of the problem (Daily Mail link), and Knight swallows it hook, line and sinker. It's a government flunky trying to deflect Greeks from demonstrating against him and his useless cabinent colleagues to get them to go beat up on illegals.

Greece's problem is simply stated. The country doesn't have a real economy of any kind. It doesn't DO much of anything to earn a living. No manufacturing, no high tech, no natural resources. They make wine and cheese, grow some olives and grapes, fleece German tourists, and that's it. It has the economy of a low-rent banana republic living a first world lifestyle. And to cap it off, it spent grotesque amounts of money on its military, again all on a credit card which it couldn't afford.

cgh >

"Did it cause Greece's financial collapse? No."

Never claimed it did, Greeks massive illegal immigration problems are a symptom of the disease.

To get around paywall Google:

Illegal Immigration Emerges as New Crisis for Greece—And EU

None of your links even demonstrate that illegal immigration is bad for Greece (it's not-immigration is always good).

Some jerk of a Greek cabinet minister blames immigrants as the cause of the problem (Daily Mail link), and Knight swallows it hook, line and sinker. It's a government flunky trying to deflect Greeks from demonstrating against him and his useless cabinent colleagues to get them to go beat up on illegals.

This. In Europe, the left blames the rich/corporations for the failure's of socialism while the right blames foreign people. That Dutch loser whose name I can't recall like to blame Muslims in particular.

LAS >

LOL, you don’t read very well either.

“...the Europe Commission—the EU's executive branch—began pouring €255 million ($331 million) into border protection for Greece over the past two years.” – Wall Street Journal “Illegal Immigration Emerges as New Crisis for Greece—And EU”

Talk about burying the lead. Legible between the lines of the BBC story the blogger links to in utter panic is actually a fascinating look at how the Golden Dawn are already cleaning up Greece---and that a good half of Greece's police are on the side of the people, even before the German money runs out.

In particular, Greece's illegal Muslim hordes and anti-fascist thugs have been put on notice that they no longer have the run of the streets of Athens, and "artists" who glorify sodomy and slander Jesus Christ (in ways that would have gotten the little cowards beaten to death by migrants if they'd said anything of the sort about Mohammed) are finding out what the plain people of the first Christian nation really think of them.

Said plain people, meanwhile, are figuring out who their real friends and enemies are---and that not showing up to riot is a failed policy.

Were I a champagne socialist at the BBC, I'd be soiling my knickers myself. Greece is doubly privileged---the first nation saved by Christ is well on her way to becoming the first nation in Europe to regain her freedom and rid herself of traitors, communists and Muslims once and for all. She won't be the last.

Next Christmas in Bucharest!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19976841

And yet again Knight you completely fail to demonstrate your point. Pouring money into unneeded border protection =/= immigrants are bad for Greece.

Golden Dawn's infiltration and cooperation from thug cops is really damn disturbing. We are seeing fascism rise. Greeks will eventually get the choice of fascists or communists, all funded by German vanity. A perfect symbol of Europe.

Dick Slater >

It’s funny you say that, when the socialist weenies drag economies and nations to the brink of civil war they usually end up bearing the brunt of the pain and the penalties of retribution.

I take solace in the fact that they can only destroy and never rebuild. They ultimately lose on every level sooner or later; every society essentially cleanses itself of it’s built up rot in time.

Conservative values with inherent practicalities will generally ensure a safer transition though the inevitable cleansing. Survival of the fittest.

LAS >

'...you completely fail to demonstrate your point."

I demonstrated plenty.

BTW what was your point, and how did you demonstrate it? Hmmm nothing.

That's why you’re looked upon as a loser/ troll LAS, all pointy finger talk with an empty opinion.

I won this thread debate with you the first time you swallowed the troll bait and allowed me to start posting links, thanks again.

Knight: "Never claimed it did, Greeks massive illegal immigration problems are a symptom of the disease."

That one I agree with strongly. It's a very unpleasant symptom, not a cause.

LAS said: "Greeks will eventually get the choice of fascists or communists..."

They already have communists, its what wrecked them in the first place. They had the fascists thirty years ago and now they're having them again. Terminally stupid, and getting ready to kill some large number of immigrants.

LAS also said: "...it's not-immigration is always good..."

That's a howler! Tell that line to the people of California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas... Minnesota... Toronto...

Its not always good, dude. It entirely depends on the quality of the people immigrating. Illiterate Bedouin goat herders do not make model citizens in their new country, usually. Whereas educated German machinists usually do.

What, LAS? You surprised that there are some in the Greek police force who take their responsibility to uphold the law and defend Greece from her enemies seriously?

In Ulster during the war against Sinn Fein, the UVF and UDA had plenty of contacts and support from the Royal Ulster Constabulary, as it then was, and the Ulster Defence Regiment. Would that surprise you too? It shouldn't if you realize that the loyalist "paramilitaries" were actually serious about defeating the Queen's enemies in Ulster, while most of the jackasses who passed for the Queen's ministers in London just wanted Ireland out of the English newspapers, and would have sold Ulster to the Pope for the price of a pint any day of the week. (Thatcher was an exception in this as in many things, which is why the Teigs still hate her.) The Ulstermen in British uniform fighting for the Queen against Sinn Fein quickly figured out who their real friends were. Much as I hate to admit it, they didn't have many in London.

The Greek police, for their part, have little enough support from Athens, much less Brussels or Berlin. If I thank God for the Golden Dawn, rest assured they do.

The Phantom >

To be racially fair I would add –

It would be akin to white middle class, mom’s basement dwelling, car pooping occupiers from Canada sneaking across the border into the US and pretending they have something to offer.

We all have enough home-grown losers to feed and deal with as is without adding to the misery.

Sorry LAS not all “immigrants” are equal, illegal immigrants proved their criminal mindset from the onset.

That's a howler! Tell that line to the people of California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas... Minnesota... Toronto...

I'll tell it to every one of those xenophobic twits. Name one nation that has ever been brought down by immigration.

LAS >

"Name one nation that has ever been brought down by immigration."

The Roman Empire.