"Organic" Is The Latin Word For "Grown In Pig Shit"

I have nothing against organic food. In fact, I garden without chemicals as much as possible and I like my soil to be rich in organic matter.

However, when it comes to a choice of being organic and losing the crop or using chemicals and saving the crop, chemicals win every time.

Dirtman, exactly. I people knew how some of these so-called organic crops are grown they would stop buying them.

That would be if some people knew...

You know,the leftarded dick heads and the clones who follow them really are mentally disturbed.EVERY bit of food,whether from a big farm,your garden,Stupidstore,or your a&& is ORGANIC. It contains carbon.That's what the word means.Mind you,it doesn't stop me from selling a dozen "green,organic" carrots for 10 bucks a bunch.It is fun to shear the sheeple and useful idjits. :):)

Biggest scam ever perpetrated by greentards. AT least the only victims are fellow greentards on this one.

One thing I make a point of avoiding is "organic food". As Justthinkin pointed out, all food is "organic" in the chemical sense except the stuff that I buy is much less likely to be contaminated by enteric bacteria. I grow some of my food but there's a limited growing season in Canada and now is the very small portion of the year where I can pig out on my garden tomatoes. They're "organic" in that I haven't used any pesticides on them but I used good old inorganic fertilizers.

I'll go out of my way to buy free range beef, lamb and buffalo because it has less fat and tastes better. Same thing goes for free range eggs and chicken. I strongly believe in having an animal eat low energy density plant matter for me and thus I get the concentrated nutrition in the form of meat. That said, time for a nice steak now along with some of my freshly picked tomatoes from my garden.

Generally a plant takes up,from the soil, what it NEEDS. And produces WHAT IT PRODUCES.

Clay soil or pig shit.. the plant takes what it requires.

Suzuki is a shithead.
Period.

Every time this topic comes up I'm reminded of Penn & Teller playing Greatest Human Being in History poker.

It's sad that it's even noteworthy for a scientist to say that when the data didn't support her hypothesis she accepted that the hypothesis may have been flawed. Maybe she can teach a seminar on the scientific method to climate "scientists."

I'll go out of my way to buy free range beef, lamb and buffalo because it has less fat and tastes better. Same thing goes for free range eggs and chicken. I strongly believe in having an animal eat low energy density plant matter for me and thus I get the concentrated nutrition in the form of meat. That said, time for a nice steak now along with some of my freshly picked tomatoes from my garden.

That's a sensible attitude; I do the same.
I eat clean nutritious food, with few, if any, chemicals and pesticides, and I'm way more healthy than most folks my age.

Smart people are able to make intelligent choices about what goes in their mouth, and with stupid people it doesn't matter anyway.

"Biggest scam ever perpetrated by greentards."
~james

The Great Global Warming Swindle is the biggest scam ever perpetrated by the greentards or any other group in human history, bar none.

AndyN "It's sad that it's even noteworthy for a scientist to say that when the data didn't support her hypothesis she accepted that the hypothesis may have been flawed. Maybe she can teach a seminar on the scientific method to climate "scientists.""

Hypothesis flawed? Impossible. The data just needs restating.

Just like "organic", "chemical" is often misused. In fact, every use but one in this thread is incorrect. Everything we eat contains chemicals, like water, salt, vitamins, minerals, and so on.

All plants are comprised of "chemicals" and "pesticides" whether they be a residual of man made origin or part of the natural defense system of the species. Broccoli and Potatoes would not be approved by the FDA if they were man-made products due to their high dosage of naturally occurring chemical warfare defenses.

The human immune system evolved in an environment rich in naturally occurring chemical pesticides. Most if not all regulatory agencies controlling dosages of human made pesticides use the linear no threshold low tolerance in a conservative fashion which predates the hormesis effect (a threshold on the way towards a lethal dose, which stimulates the immune system resulting in statistically lower rates of illness than at lower doses of exposure).

This study reaffirms that organic food, which I avoid like the plague, is a tax on gullible people with too much money.

I've seen a few organic operations, up close. Can't imagine how they make any money, with all the weeds. I've always suspected there's more chemical cheating in organic farming, than there is in the Tour de France.

I'll take the pesticide "residue" (and what exactly is the residue? What do they measure?) over the risk of anti-biotic resistant bacterial infection any day:

http://www.openmarket.org/2007/03/02/spinich-contamination-confirmed-as-organic/

Jeez - and guess who decided to do the socially responsible thing, spend some money, figure out how this all happened and at the same time make life safer for everyone?

Organic farmers?

Nope!

The guberment?

Nope!

Universities?

Nope!

Guess who:

http://investors.chiquita.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=119836&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=951294&highlight=

Darn those rapacious in-organic industrial farms!

Thanks for this post Kate. Just emailed the study to a few......er, organic proponents/propagandists/promoters/protagonists.

Now I'm retiring to my metaphorical bunker, to take cover for the 2 or 3 days it will take for the greenie counter"attack" to exhaust itself.

I'll never be forgiven and I'll be covered in spittle, but what the hell. Just doing my duty to pass along some inconvenient facts.

Coach @ 1:46 am

Around here, organic means,
"We spray at night."

What's the difference between an organic farmer and a regular farmer?

A ponytail.

Pesticides are much like those inorganic, unnatural vaccines that keep us from getting smallpox, polio, pertussis, diptheria, typhoid fever... Yes, the wrong dosage could kill you. Yes, there are some side effects. Nothing that does something can ever be 100 percent safe.

Can pesticides be misused? Yes, but there are more fatalities from contaminated bean sprouts, cantalopes.... Wash your produce and you've eliminated the problem. Most of the pesticides, too. You people who wander through the grocery store sampling things are not behaving wisely.

Whole Foods Markets stock price seems unaffected by the news. I guess people in the know are not worried that the rubes will suddenly figure out its a scam.

What makes me laugh is most people have no knowledge of the fact plants have their own natural poisons known as alkaloids. To ward off predictors or animals that don't benefit reproduction.
Thistles are a good example.

The modern use of pesticides is a "calculated risk" but unfortunately most citizens are unfamiliar with the concept. The risk to human health is so small it can barely be measured at all. The adoption of so-called organic food is Luddite thinking in every respect because it rejects science and evidence based logic with a touchy feely sense of smug superiority.

My grandfather had the best attitude. He always said "if it tastes good and doesn't crawl off my plate, I'll eat it, actually if it tries to crawl off and I catch it I'll eat it anyway." He live well into his 80's. Smoked and drank too. Was never sick and died in his sleep. Last two funerals I attended were for friends that lived clean and ate healthy. They never made it to 65. The lesson I take from this is simply ignore the health nuts and eat whatever you like in moderation. We are all born with that stamp," best before........"

I don't buy organic unless it is cheaper (sometimes it is) and I believe we could not support the population of this world without using factory farming techniques.

The results of the study confirm what I already suspected.

That being said, I'm wondering more and more about microbes and the role they play in human health. In this regard, we may yet discover organic (which I would presume is far richer in microbes) is better for us, especially compared to antibiotic fed meat.

I live in a relatively unsterile home. No commercial antibiotic cleaners (very few commercial cleaners at all, actually), no alcohol based hand cleaner at every sink, and growing up my kids played in dirt, water and trees, exposed to spores, bacteria and other stuff along with the fresh air in order to be healthy. No bubble-kids for me.

In general we are very healthy. Maybe one cold each year or two, maybe the flu every 2 - 3 years. Seldom do we pass colds between us so I figure our immune systems are strong. One round of cancer (in my dh, hereditary), one round of back issues (me - poor posture and lazy.) My body has a great track record of healing itself without medical intervention. But sometimes I worry my food is being overly cleared of the microbes my body needs for health.

There's no point studying this until microbes role in health is better understood, but I can foresee a day, a decade or so out, where we'll discover organic did have a benefit that wasn't apparent at this point in our scientific knowledge.

That said, I still won't pay more for organic food.

Buyer beware. "Organic" on commercially sold food can mean just about anything. You need to know the source of the food you put into your body – is it healthy and how is it produced. There are hucksters out there and that includes “Organic” scammers and Monsanto with their GMO and agri-chem safety claims. If you can't grow your own food, find someone to do it for you who you trust and who practices traditional agriculture - someone local preferably. That way the family/small farm survives. Survival of the small local producer is key to good food and strong diverse economies free of monopolistic food production and marketing.

Kate and I will probably never agree on Monsanto (my research shows they have had a vast negative impact on our small farms, family ops and the food chain in general) but to each his own. If you are like me and you want good wholesome food, you have to make the effort to find it - it seldom shows up at the supermarket in flash-marketing packaging. The urban-centric demand for "Organic" food, (the fastest growing demand in the food industry) and our government's loose guidelines as to what can be marketed as "organic" - this has created a marketing opportunity for a lot of scammers. Being from an area where most of the farming is done on family heritage farms, it's not hard to find true "organically grown" produce, dairy and meat at local farmer’s markets, but for those in large urban centers, you will have to venture afield if you want better food.

BTW: Corn fed, naturally composted hog manure used in production of cash crops is one of the most productive methods conducive to high yield and quality produce. Where corporate chemical applications leech out of the soil through precipitation and peculation yearly, hog poop keeps a field productive for up to 3 years - but I guess which is better depends on whether you’re are selling expensive consumable chemicals or not.

peterj @ 11:37, exactly. We all have a lifetime warranty.

Haven't read this study myself. However, I would say, check out who did the funding. The money trail will tell you all you need to know. If anyone doubts that homegrown, organic food is superior to the crap in the supermarket, then you are living in an alternate reality. Truly organically grown food is superior in every way: taste, nourishment and freshness. Only your allegiance to the factory farm and agri-business would blind you to this truth.

north_of_60 >

Yup agreed.

I eat mostly organic, including what I grow, hunt, and fish, and drink only fresh juices, bottled water and a very occasional whiskey - No processed crap or chain restaurant food whatsoever. I could give a rat’s ass what other people eat, smoke, or stick in their veins, and find it hilarious that people would jump on others that choose to eat as naturally as modern society still allows.

I’m 100% against the eviro-nazi’s and political organic activists with deeper agenda’s, but I’m equally against all the naysayers that try to push commercial poisons down our throats as well.

I’m not a health nut per say and I agree with peterj @ 11:37pm “The lesson I take from this is simply ignore the health nuts and eat whatever you like in moderation”.

The major difference is recognizing the commercial poisons verses eating what nature actually provides as known beneficial foods as much as possible.

F*ck the people that tell me I can’t eat a fresh tomato out of my own garden or advocate shutting down raw milk sales, lemonade stands, organic farmers markets or Mennonite communities selling their organic pigs and other produce.

If people want to eat & drink fluorides and pesticides no one is stopping them, go snort rat poison for all anyone really cares. What I don’t get outside of commercial enterprises is why people won’t shut up about other people who don’t care to eat the commercial crap.

“....after an extensive examination of four decades of research comparing organic and conventional foods.”

Gotta love studies that examine “others research” neglecting to mention who’s research, where and when. But as an aside disclaimer they do conveniently mention that there are controversies with pesticides, and the potential of losing certain benefits of organic foods.

Yawn, I wonder who funded the “study” and supplied the “research”.

"Only your allegiance to the factory farm and agri-business would blind you to this truth."

Well, or if you did a four year long analysis of the actual, you know, food.

See, this is why Whole Foods stock price is safe.

north_of_60 at September 5, 2012 12:56 AM

"I eat clean nutritious food, with few, if any, chemicals and pesticides, and I'm way more healthy than most folks my age."

Yeah me too....most of the folks I went to school with back in the 1 roomer are dead.

Usually lung issues from organic (harvest and feeding time) and inorganic (cultivation) dust.

......And yet the Phils protest air conditioned cabs on the farm machinery....

I figure it was cause I spent a lotta time in a safer environment...just bullets flying about.

There is no storal to this morey...other than it's best to sit on yer helmet....the skein of life is already cut...hiding in a hole will do you no good.

Back in the summer I went on a futile trip to twon to acquire something to kill the potato bugs....good luck....it's like spraying dandelions on yer lawn.

I look at small organic farms as any local small business. I don’t shop at Chinese junk super warehouses like Walmart and I don’t give a rat’s ass about farming monopolies like Monsanto.

I shop with the little guy when I can, including farmers markets and any other small businesses.

I’m not sure when supporting organic upstarts or existing small farm operations became “non-conservative”, or “anti-capitalist” when exactly the opposite is true.

Just because a few leftist freaks with white ponytails go on about natural foods or some sort of hippy crap, was no reason for conservatives to jump on the bandwagon of corporate monopolies that want to sell you salt diets and other processed garbage.

There’s a reason western society is generally physically sick these days. No one seems to have the answer as to why the increased cancers, Alzheimer’s, childhood allergies, etcetera. But whatever the case, don’t look at the food and these crappy mega corporations that would sell their mother’s for pig food if they thought it would bring up their share values.

knight99, agreed. I even grow alot of my own food, but the gov won't let me sell any.

The Environmental Protection Agency decrees 'safe' levels of pesticide residue.

Yeah, we know how competent bureaucrats are...fiddle

fiddle- are you one of those leftists who opposes that chemical known as chlorine in the water supply? Or do you drink free-range water, and let any giardia, etc. feast inside your gastrointestinal tract?

...Monsanto (my research shows they have had a vast negative impact on our small farms, family ops and the food chain in general) Occam

Could you please state the top 3 or 4 negative effects - or the biggest negative effect - Monsanto has on the food chain in general?

If Monsanto and Big Chem are poisoning us like some of the people here have stated, why is it that longevity in North America continues to increase? Anecdotal evidence is nothing more than one's personal opinion and is worth nothing; give us the facts like the authors of the study have done. Show us the studies that prove that the use of pesticides are proving to be detrimental to the population's overall health.

small c conservative >

“Could you please state the top 3 or 4 negative effects - or the biggest negative effect - Monsanto has on the food chain in general?”

Link provided below.

An interesting snippet:

“Climate Change Co-option
Monsanto have seen the potential for new markets for their GM products within the mechanisms of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on climate change [51]. Since 1998 Monsanto has been one of the principle corporations attempting to hijack the UN climate change negotiations for its own ends. Monsanto claims that its products offer high tech solutions in the battle to reduce CO2 emissions. Monsanto hopes to gain carbon credits in two ways.

1. Monsanto claims that wide spread use of RoundUp Ready crops will reduce the need for ploughing thus keeping large quantities of CO2 locked in the soil.

2. Monsanto hopes to be a major provider of GM trees for forestry ‘carbon sinks’ (large areas of forests planted to soak up CO2 emissions). Monsanto are close to commercialising RoundUp Ready trees and are rumoured to be developing carbon absorbing trees and plants”.

Just an odd snippet to highlight the hypocrisy of anyone defending Monsanto on one hand but decrying that global warming and carbon credits are a money grabbing fraud.

Here’s some meat:

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=210

Of course the real crime is monopolizing the food industry. A capitalist economy is against monopolies, a line that has become politically blurred and misunderstood in the last few decades.

nold >

"give us the facts like the authors of the study have done"

What facts? You show us their facts, I don’t see any.

Let’s break it down a little, cause I don’t think we’re reading the same thing here:

#1) “Organic produce, as expected, was much less likely to retain traces of pesticides.”

#2) “ Organic chicken and pork were less likely to be contaminated by antibiotic-resistant bacteria. “

#3) “The study also found that organic milk contained more omega-3 fatty acids, which are considered beneficial for the heart. “

#4) “One finding of the study was that organic produce, over all, contained higher levels of phosphorus than conventional produce”

#5) “The organic produce also contained more compounds known as phenols, believed to help prevent cancer, than conventional produce”

#6) “They also noted a couple of studies that showed that children who ate organic produce had fewer pesticide traces in their urine. “

#7) “Similarly, organic meat contained considerably lower levels of antibiotic-resistant bacteria”

#8) “Dr. Bravata agreed that people bought organic food for a variety of reasons — concerns about the effects of pesticides on young children, the environmental impact of large-scale conventional farming and the potential public health threat if antibiotic-resistant bacterial genes jumped to human pathogens. “Those are perfectly valid,” she said. “

“PERFECTLY VALID” she said.

#9) “Rather, the motivation is to reduce exposure to pesticides, especially for pregnant women and their young children.”

#10) “The studies identified pregnant women exposed to higher amounts of pesticides known as organophosphates and then followed their children for years. In elementary school, those children had, on average, I.Q.’s several points lower than those of their peers.”

I don’t know what facts article you read or are referring to nold, but I don’t think this is the one supporting your case.

Yup, I drew the same conclusions from the facts presented in the study.

If people want to eat & drink fluorides and pesticides no one is stopping them, go snort rat poison for all anyone really cares. ... why people won’t shut up about other people who don’t care to eat the commercial crap.

I will continue to eat what's best for me, and the rest of the world can shove whatever they want into their pie hole.

No one seems to have the answer as to why the increased cancers, Alzheimer’s, childhood allergies, etcetera.

Petrochemicals in the food, water and air is a likely source...
of course "finding the cure" is a billion dollar profit industry,
so finding any sort of cure would be counterproductive.

http://junkscience.com/ has a funny cartoon this week.
http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/caveman-cartoon.jpg
For those who don't bother to link the caveman says to his friend,
"Something's just not right, our air is clean, our water is pure, we all get plenty of exercise, everything we eat is organic and free range, and yet nobody lives past 30."

nold >

Very scientific. Based on your cartoon you’re welcome to eat all the pesticide to prolong your life that you wish no one here is stopping you.

Otherwise, there seems to be a misunderstanding between the stressed conditions of our ancestors and medical advances coupled with the easy lifestyles that we live today. Of course today everyone is the hardest worker they know, right?

Sorry to say but eating poisons didn't increase life expectancy, and childhood diseases are though the roof compared to our ancestors. We simply don’t scrounge for our food with little vitamins daily, fight hand to hand battles with other people and animals, or worry about an abscessed tooth or broken bone.

All of which has f*ck all to do with poison processed foods, and everything to do with heart and high blood pressure medications.

Knight 99 I've had an identical discussion with a relative over cooking oil made from genetically modified Canola. It is impossible to distinguish oil from GM Canola plants and oil from non-GM plants; the genetic material is in the meal removed during processing. There is nothing I can say to him to convince him that the cooking oil is safe to use in his kitchen. Cavemen may not be a fair comparison to us but how about 75 years ago or even 50 years ago. Why does longevity continue to increase while we eat all these alleged poisons?

Nold >

“There is nothing I can say to him to convince him that the cooking oil is safe”

Therein lays the problem Dr.

On the reverse there seems to be nothing he can say to you to convince you otherwise either.

Regardless, my point of argument on this thread was about “conservative” bashing of people who do choose to eat healthy and support small mom & pop organic businesses. Do you not see the hypocrisy?

If people choose to eat raw or organic foods it’s their business, it’s a conservative choice. A liberal choice would be to consider every new soda pop trend safe and as healthy as the snake oil sales pitch that made them buy it.

Supporting small business’s organic or otherwise is a Capitalist free market attribute. Defending corporate monopolies, not so much.

A fiddle pointed out @ 4:42am “Must be several people invested in Monsanto”, no doubt that is true. Especially people who farm and have jumped on the Monsanto bandwagon, they have a direct and vested interest in it. The sad part for them is that they are potentially selling off their own family’s health for an easier way to make a few extra bucks. Whatever that’s their business, but the rest of us need not run off a cliff because people profiting from it tell us it’s the safe or the cool thing to do.

This Science “Study” of four decades by others “research” is bunk. I’ve already listed a bunch of disclaimers carefully hidden throughout that I easily handpicked out of the article to prove it as such. It’s designed that way, so that if you only want to read what you want to read, you’ll walk away happy and in your comfort zone.

Lowering children’s IQ a few points is not cool; people living on farms that spray the crap around their young families should be concerned, then asking questions and demanding answers.

Surprised there isn't a big hippie demand for well rotted "organic" wildebeast from africa.
After all that's where our alpha male distant ancestors got most of their protein once they
drove off the vultures and hyenas from maggoty lion kills. Protein boosted aggression,
something that came in handy when predators started trying to cut off your weakest family
members while they ran for the nearest tree refuge.

As for tomatoes with good flavour, there is apparently zero interest in selling fully vine ripened
on sale the following morning unrefrigerated produce. Is it really better to grow hard to damage
almost flavourless stuff, pick it unripened, refrigerate it to kill the little flavour that it has held onto,
and then dump it in front of customers who know the price of everything and the quality of nothing?
.

Knight 99
Eating now comes down to a "conservative choice"?
I never knew life could be so conflicted and political.
"Defending corporate monopolies, not so much."
In what way is Monsanto a monopoly? Farmers are free to choose to use their products or not, just as you are free to use any product you may wish to choose. There are 4 or 5 different ways to grow oil seeds so Monsanto is far from a monopoly and no, I'm not invested. Monsanto has not been doing that great since the patent for Round-up expired and generic alternatives have come into the market.

Nold >

Eating raw and natural foods is a conservative choice, by definition.

“In what way is Monsanto a monopoly?” – nold

Do some research; it’s what business partners are supposed to do.

Here is a short but grainy clip from the documentary film Food Inc. If you haven’t seen it, it is well worth the effort to watch the movie in its entirety. Maybe also check out some of the Monsanto side links as well, I haven’t seen them but it may be a good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1CJ7IEt0c

Nold >

This should be the same documentary clear and in its entirety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqQVll-MP3I&feature=BFa&list=PL27A628B18407ECDF

Thanks but no; if I wanted a 94 minute polemic and self flagellation about the evil agriculture industry I would simply re-read some of Phil's contributions.

nold >

“Thanks but no; if I wanted a 94 minute polemic and self flagellation about the evil agriculture industry...”

Actually it’s not, it’s about farmers but you’ll never know that by not watching.

So in a nutshell your uninformed “head in the sand” opinions on the matter are essentially worthless. Thanks for sharing absolutely nothing but.... – what was that phrase you used again @ 11:48pm “Anecdotal evidence is nothing more than one's personal opinion and is worth nothing” - nold

Exactly.