It's Probably Nothing

The official green light to assault Coptic churches? Stay tuned.

Any predictions on how President 'Lead from Behind' is going to react?

The danced in the streets of Cairo on 911 . . . now they add flag burning to the list of insults.

The middle east is reverting back to its centuries old pattern of mayhem, murder and tyranny.

The prospered for a few decades under colonial rule but now it is back to tribal mayhem.

I see a Guy Fawks/OWS mask on that wall there.

Might be time to close that embassy and get out of Dodge. Before the Israelis start flattening the place, y'know.

The radical Muslim way of hitting the reset button.

And the US has also agreed to sell subs to Egypt... Nothing wrong with that idea eh? Also, Haaretz is reporting that El Prezidente has refused to meet with Netanyahu.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/white-house-declines-netanyahu-request-to-meet-with-obama.premium-1.464328

Maybe all those carrier groups are in the gulf to protect Iran?

Folks, what we have seen the last number of years is only the beginning.

Another chorus of kumbaya won't be enough.

Okay, so where can I watch some clips of this movie? Where can I order the DVD ? Anyone ?

We probably should import more of these people, dontcha think? What could possibly go wrong?

Oh, and Joos, Joos, Joos, Joos, Joos!

An M-60 and a couple of belts of 7.62 will cut down on that crap.

We still send untold millions in annual aid. Seems to be paying off in the display of gratitude.

Netanyahu wanted to meet with Obama about Iran. Obama has refused; he said he's 'too busy'. Campaigning.

Again, as I've said in the other thread, Obama has, by rejecting the Bush Doctrine, set up the ME for a decade of violent civil wars, where the people will fight each other for power.

There are two sides. One side is simply a clone of the old dictators - these are the Islamic fundamentalists. The other side is for a democratic regime empowering a middle class.

The fundamentalists, the Islamists, who are utopian socialists akin to the Obama socialists, are fighting for power to control the citizens. Just like the old dictatorship. Their rhetorical ideology is to achieve the perfect society via fundamentalist Islam. That's the rhetoric, similar to Obama's Hope and Change rhetoric. In reality, it sets up the population as dependent on the Government Will. In both the US and Egypt. That's Obama's method.

The secular Egyptian population, who might be Muslim by habit but who are not fundamentalists, will be fighting these socialists. This side wants to enable and empower a middle class, ie, a democracy. The encouragement and support for this sector of the population is the basis for the Bush Doctrine.

Obama's rejection of it, and his support for the dictators and their clone replacements, the Islamist fundamentalists, means: a decade of civil war.

The other side is for a democratic regime empowering a middle class.

I don't think there is any convincing evidence that this side actually exists.
The calls for help from people who pretended to represent this side were, in reality, Islamists cynically making sounds that they knew would get them support from the western press and governments to overthrow secular tinpot dictators.

Where's Hilary and her "reset" button when you need her?

Where are all those wide-eyed, English speaking Egyptian activist girls now? You know, the ones on CNN/CBC/BBC breathlessly telling us about the bright dawn of the Arab Spring and the end of quaint customs like clitoral circumcision? Maybe that is her in the Guy Fawkes mask?

OZ - prove it.

Prove that I don't think that there is any convincing evidence that, and I quote you et "The other side is for a democratic regime empowering a middle class."?

Simple stating it is proof enough that 'I don't think there is any convincing proof'.
You certainly are being illogical today, et.

caption: "What the Yanks' billions of dollars of aid have bought."

Haaretz blames Netanyahu for Israel's problem with Obama.

Oz, no, your simple statement that the people arguing for freedom in Egypt were 'actually fronts and wanted fundamentalist Islam' is not proof. You have to prove that what they said was a lie and that they actually want fascist Islamism.

My proof is based on their actual words as they fought Mubarek. I have no reason to disbelieve them. You instead state that what they didn't say, is 'the truth'. Sorry, I don't buy the 'hidden agenda' argument.

I certainly do accept that the power vacuum in Egypt enabled previously repressed sects and groups to emerge and battle for power, and that Islamist fundamentalism is one, just one, of these groups.

I also believe that there is an equally large if not larger group in Egypt who want political and economic freedom and don't want to move from one dictatorship (secular) to another dictatorship (religious).

So much hatred on their faces, so much hatred in their hearts it's like a virus passing around Muslim nations. I can't remember a time in my life when one group has been given a pass to spread such violent hatred and poison.

I despise them for their Islamist.
I admire them for their anti-americanism.

Meanwhile, the U.S. embassy in Cairo says "We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others", and in so doing, demonstrates again that (a) they believe that free speech is something that has been given to people by the government, and should be removed if "abused", (b) they believe that appeasement is the best way to deal with enemies, and (c) they can't even formulate a coherent idea - what does it mean to "hurt the religous beliefs of others". What they must mean is that they are condemning the criticism of any religous doctrine, no matter how odeous. If this is coming from the U.S. government, free speech is dead.

Oz, no, your simple statement that the people arguing for freedom in Egypt were 'actually fronts and wanted fundamentalist Islam' is not proof. You have to prove that what they said was a lie and that they actually want fascist Islamism.

Not at all.
Your assertion that there even exists a 'side' that "wants democratic regime empowering a middle class." is completely unfounded.

All anyone has to do is to go back into SDA's archives to the protests in Cairo last year to see that myself and others here predicted that the Muslim Brotherhood would come to power.
We were right and you were wrong.

You continually asserted then that there was some significant group representing Egyptians who wanted a "democratic regime empowering a middle class" or words to that effect but following events have not borne that out.
Rather events have shown my predictions true and suggest that no SIDE of any real size or importance exists which fit your descriptors.
The proof that they do rests with you.

After all we've done for them.

— Obama (made-up quote)

Quebeckie, you are welcome to live in the Islamist/anti-American "paradise" of Egypt any time you want.

Go on. Show everyone your socialist bona fides and live by your words. Rage against the US and everything it stands for.

I DARE YOU.

If we track back to the Nairobi bombings (or even before), this is the result of having the way but no will.

And there certainly isn't any will now.

Oz, and I maintain my assertion that the ME must move into democracy and empower a middle class.

I know you are choosing to ignore that I also said that it would not be a slick and easy transformation; that one doesn't move from a tribal two-class structure to a civic three-class structure overnight and that it would not be instantaneous and would be divisive and even include violence . I maintain my assertion.

There is no way that a people would freely choose to move from one dictatorship to another dictatorship - and one that is even worse than the former. But most certainly, different sects and blocs will try to move into power. They won't and can't last because they cannot deliver the economic wealth that is needed for that size of a population.

It's the population size and the economic mode that are the key variables - and you ignore both of them.

Littlebones, exactly right. That was an odious speech by the US Embassy in Cairo. Shades of Obama. And it most certainly was against freedom of speech.

Quebecois, as usual, an inane comment. Why should someone be anti-American? Is there some primary reason? I can understand being against or in favour of a specific policy or program, but to be, universally, against America? That's pure ignorant bigotry.

ET there is a difference between "MUST" and "WANT". In order for us to live in peace they MUST except they don't WANT so we have violence.

What was that old line about Wishes and horses and riding beggars?

Oz...ET is pissed that her tribe is proving themselves to be the animals they are.To keep it simple,you are either for the retards,or not.She just thinks that tearing down country's flag is fun for kiddies.Treat the leftard troll as any other here.And the verbal BS PHD will start in 3...2...1

It's the population size and the economic mode that are the key variables - and you ignore both of them.
~ET

Just because I don't share your belief doesn't mean I'm ignoring something.
China isn't a "democratic regime empowering a middle class" so what do you suppose you're missing?

Posted by: Quebecois NDP separatiste at September 11, 2012 5:10 PM

Is it the unalienable rights granted by God you object to? Are rights then apportioned from other human beings, betters such as yourself?

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/yardstick/pr3.html

Has Obama apologized yet?

This after Obama announced a thaw in U.S./Egypt relations. This is some thaw.

Oz, but you are ignoring the population size and economies of the ME and the fact that they must move out of a statist redistribution economy.

And you are quite wrong about China. The Chinese have an enormous, swelling, bursting middle class. China most definitely is not a two-class economy; the middle class, which is empowered to own property and money, is a major economic force in China.

China is not socialist or communist; heck, you have to pay for your own health care in the hospitals! It is not democratic, but I maintain that will come.

China is politically, as it used to be before communism took over, a hive of local, strictly local governance. Towns, cities, municipalities, are run by various 'families' - not necessarily hereditary but connected. And corrupt. You get things done, whether it be a visa or a building permit, by bribes to 'the person in charge'.

Just thinkin - I've no idea what you mean by 'my tribe'. I don't have any allegiance to any people, and focus on the use of reason, logic and the social principles outlined so very well in the US Declaration and Constitution.

Within the compound that makes up the Embassy of the United States, by international treaty, it is considered American Territory.

It may have been a mistake for the Marines that guard this post to not fire on those that breeched the wall.

Their will be a new sheriff in town in January.

US embassies attacked in Egypt and Libya by extremist Islam. I wonder if one was planned against the Canadian embassy in Iran as well? I guess we will never know if that was the reason for closing our embassy there.

Kill them before they kill us.

An American has been killed in the attack in Cairo.

Obummer?

Make that Libya.

About five out of six Egyptians (85%) prefer Islam to anything else. Under Mubarak the sixth one was on top. No longer. The one will crawl, cringe, and kowtow to jihadism. When will he announce he's really muslim? Not till after he's won re-election!

"And the verbal BS PHD will start in 3...2...1"

What bothers you the most, the education or the intelligence and analysis? I don't always agree with ET, but her posts make you seem a babbling simpleton, full of cliches and little else.

Obama will do everything possible to keep the genie in the bottle for a little bit longer. He will appease and bow and kowtow in response to every threat and attack and hope he can make it over the finish line in November before all hell breaks out. I would hate to be a marine guarding an embassy somewhere in the ME right now because you would be little more than cannon fodder.

Oz >

“All anyone has to do is to go back into SDA's archives to the protests in Cairo last year to see that myself and others here predicted that the Muslim Brotherhood would come to power.”

I second the motion.

There needs to be no more proof than what is in the pudding. It was well predicted, debated, and proven right.

“There is no way that a people would freely choose to move from one dictatorship to another dictatorship - and one that is even worse than the former” – ET

Obviously somewhere in your strong assertion you are wrong on some level. Endlessly debating the outcome with excuses and manufactured reasoning’s will not change the reality of what was clearly predicted accurately by others. Sometimes people get it wrong, obviously some get it wrong enough to kill many other people at great costs.

An intelligent person is allowed to be wrong sometimes, the best of them reanalyse to find out where and why.

“There is no way that a people would freely choose to move from one dictatorship to another dictatorship - and one that is even worse than the former” – ET

Islam: submission and (blind) obedience...'nuff said.

What is alarming and truly sad is that Americans are about set to re-elect this idiot.

ET makes the errror of evaluating muslims, especially arabs by our standards. Their standards are reflexive treachery and takya....

When turning one's back to them, it is recommended that you discharge your pistol under your armpit. Generally this takes out that individual with a dagger and impresses the hell outa the audience.

It's their culture.....

Ive said it before & stand by it by his actions. Obama is a Muslim by inclination, birth & culture.
That on this day he allows this is like letting the Japaneses after Pearl Harbor, invade without complaint California. Hes a one man cheering section for Muslim radicalism, which fits right in with his Marxist radical mind. He said himself he would never go to war with Islam. Even if they have been at war with America since at least 1979.
ET I don't believe in tooth fairies nor Moderate Muslims. The only true ones i know are apostates or none practitioners.
The rest are just sleepers for Sharia. Breeders in the cause of Islam for Jihad. By numbersa they believe in crushing us with violence.

Truenorthist, agreed, Obama's focus is, as usual, only on Himself. He doesn't want to deal with Iran, and indeed, with anything other than Himself. If the ME explodes AFTER he's elected, he doesn't care. Because, heck, as he frequently reminds us, 'I'm the President' (flipping his Nobel Peace Award back and forth).

oldfart, your ratio of 85% of Egyptians say they prefer Islam is an empty statistic. That's because it doesn't inform us about the nature of Islam that they want. Kindly remember that for 95% of them, it is the only religion they've ever known. Naturally they choose it, since they have no familiarity with anything else.

Second, there is no proof that the Islam they prefer is its extremist fundamentalist form. The Islam most are familiar with is a 'reformed' Islam which limits the power of religious imams. In the cities, Islam is considered a private affair, in the rural areas, the imams are not scholars but more 'local preachers' and again, are not into fundamentalism.

Nemo, no, people don't fight against a dictator to move into another dictatorship. The Muslim Brotherhood is less a religious order and primarily a political movement. It's all about power. The Islamist mantra, that for example, the cause of poverty is the lack of spirituality, is doomed to failure.

An ideological movement does not have the comfort of the seminar room to govern, where decisions exist only in words. The same can be said, for example, about Jack Layton's NDP, whose axioms rest in utopian rhetoric. Dealing with the economic and political realities of millions of people moves one, rapidly, out of the seminar room and into reality.

Morsi, for example, will have to deal with the bureaucracy of Mubarak appointees, and, he has to deal with the military who have held the power for the last decades. And he'll have to deal with the realities of the economy in Egypt - as well as the imperialist ambitions of Iran.

So, apocalyptic views that 'the Islamists are coming' are, in my view, apocalyptic and ignore that reality trumps fiction. Egypt has to feed its people and the Suez tolls won't do it; it has to enable a middle class private sector economy. And that means - Islam but not Islamism. Kindly consider the difference.

sasquatch nails it, "ET makes the errror of evaluating muslims, especially arabs by our standards. Their standards are reflexive treachery and takya....".

Revnant Dream sums it up well with, "The rest are just sleepers for Sharia. Breeders in the cause of Islam for Jihad. By numbersa they believe in crushing us with violence".

Muslims have for 14 centuries attempted to crush any other creed by violence and force, with only brief periods of quiet between fresh assaults.

It would be a stretch to think that in a decade or two they would embrace the values that we have fought for since the signing of the Magna Carta. It would be great if it was true.

Just thinkin - I've no idea what you mean by 'my tribe'. I don't have any allegiance to any people, and focus on the use of reason, logic and the social principles outlined so very well in the US Declaration and Constitution.

Posted by: ET at September 11, 2012 6:18 PM

You have stated here many times that it is "tribalism".The fact that you state you have no allegiance to any people,proves you have nothing to offer anybody.I have an allegiance to people who are against hanging homosexuals,to people who think female clitorial cutting is a crime,to people who think you should be in a sack and have no freedoms.You and Mr.Rusted Iron and the Zero are what allow animals like these to breathe.And you have no idea what the Constitution means.If you did,you would be talking about how it is being perverted by your ilk.
As noted above,you screwed up and where wrong.You fell for the side of "Arab Spring".At least own up and realize you sided for the tribe that will imprison,rape,stone,and murder most of your fellow women.As knight 99 noted,you made a mistake.I would add a huge mistake in human rights.Admit it,re-evaluate,and move on for basic human decency.Or is that to hard?
And for the record,I am a male,and will do all I can to keep my daughters,and grandaughters,from self loathing females like you.They respect who they are,and the good they can do,and have done,without selling themselves to the Muzzies and "reason","population",and "economy"