Arrest me, Hillary Clinton, before I start. Call Eric Holder!And while you are at it, tell him to round up Salman Rushdie. His novel about Mohammed is obviously blasphemous. He was lucky to escape that fatwa. We should have one of our own.
And arrest those Danish cartoonists too – ink-stained wretches!

And lots more...











How many cops does it take not to arrest someone? There are 5 obvious ones in the picture, and probably at least 5 more. Should we stay tuned for the fascist show trials or will exposing his identity and location to the murderous idiots of world be adequate? Take a big crap on the Constitution, Obama.
As an atheist who believes that religion is evil, I believe that ALL religion should be ridiculed and mocked.
It was wrong to arrest him.
Great column.
Obama and Clinton are trying to divert attention from Obama's complete failure in the MENA and trying to switch blame to the US and its policy of free speech. Rubbish.
Freedom of religion doesn't mean that its axioms can't be critiqued and freedom of speech means the right to critique, which means that some might be offended. Tough.
Morsi in Egypt has finally admitted that some were paid to demonstrate though he hasn't said who paid them.
The attacks and murders in Libya had absolutely nothing to do with this video but were carefully planned. What is most disturbing is that the State Department was warned and did nothing.
I think the radicals in the MENA have taken advantage of the collapse of Obama's policy of 'If they will simply listen to me give a speech, then they'll all love me (aka the USA).
The radicals laugh at such a narcissistic policy and are using Obama's refusal to assist in the development of strong infrastructures of democracy in the fledgling democracies, as opportunities to unseat these governments and take power. Obama? He blames the US's free speech policy for it all. Not them. Not the radicals. And certainly, not Himself.
I consider Obama the greatest threat to freedom in this world. Even more dangerous than the Islamist fascists for he has the power of the USA behind him.
Maybe this photo of the non-arrest will appease them.
Or maybe a staged photo of a non-beheading would do the trick.
The Sunday media BS has the Obama Admin represented by Dr Rice, US ambassador to the UN. We now know that US policy is determined by a shadow coble of Nations. Hillary does not run the State Dept! If we want answers we need to request an audience with Dr Rice & the UN Council of American Affairs.
This whole Muslim affair was orchestrated by UN activists as a teaching lesson & Hollywood Script in the re-election of Obama. It has gone BAD
Obama is guilty of treason & the Murder of Americans!
Irony? Portend? Why is anyone surprised?
B. HUSSEIN OBAMA: 'I will stand with the Muslims. . .
Will injustices in America ever go away completely?
by: j. grant swank, jr | published: 07 01, 2008
Note what B. Hussein Obama says in his own words. They are from his books entitled “Dreams of My Father” and “Audacity of Hope.
In “Audacity of Hope” he writes: “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” The quote comes from page 261 of the paperback edition of “The Audacity of Hope.
B. Hussein was writing about the injustices suffered by some in America. In that context he wrote that sentence.
Will injustices in America ever go away completely? No. We live in an imperfect world. Therefore, will the situation ever arise by which Muslims in the United States will cry out for B. Hussein to lean in their favor. Of course. And will he?
Well, he’s already said he will “stand with the Muslims.” Need we go any further?
Well I for one LIKE the idea that offensive material on the internet and in the media are grounds for justified homicide among liberals.
Question folks? Michael Moore: 30-06 or .270?
Question folks? Michael Moore: 30-06 or .270?
Just comp him to an all-you-can-eat buffet and watch him turn into Mr. Creosote.
Unfortunately this guy has prior convictions for fraud, and it appears he may indeed have been in violation of his parole conditions. That gives the gov't a handy excuse for detaining him. Though not, as Mark Steyn noted, for swooping down on his house in the middle of the night.
Anyone here have any knowledge of the US legal system? What would be the standard procedure for dealing with a parole violation? Would this action go beyond that?
The first thing is having some grounds to believe that probation was violated.
The constitutional abortion occupying the oval office should be impeached for abandoning his sworn duty to uphold the 1st amendment rights of his countrymen over the caterwaling of hate-America foreigners.
The empty chair is indeed empty.
That my friends was an excellent 2 page commentary fy Simon. I like that.! As for what is going on there...simply unbelievable..anyone that believes for a mnute this whole thing has to do with 8 month old Utube clips needs their head examined. as for the Ambassador to Libya..how is that an "enraged mob" knew where this safe house was and how they came to be armed with RPG's and heavey machine guns..?? Can you say it was a planned attack to co-incide with 9/11.?? Never hear that in the MSM..they're too busy siding with the extremists. Canada-US - same spiel.
Nakoula, unfortunately, set himself up for this. One of the terms of his probation was that he not use the Internet, or have a third party access it on his behalf, for some 5 years. This was in 2010, so the restriction is still in force. And he, or someone apparently acting on his behalf, rather publicly violated that agreement.
No question whatsoever that this police persecution is politically motivated. But he gave them the pretext upon which to do it.
Those that live in glass houses ought not throw stones.
ET can you give me a historical precedent for democratic institutions being succesfully imposed (not imported) on a culture (the receiving culture) by an outside culture (the external culture), where the external culture did not take over the receiving culture? It seems to me that what you are advocayting is for the external culture to impose its will on the receiving culture. In this context you are advocating the continued presence of military and policing presence as well as economic and social overlording by the West in the ME.
I prefer the idea of quarantine. Keep the ME in the ME. Do not let it expand. Do not let poor individuals caught in the fying pan get out. It is their duty to start an uprising and a move to increased individual rights and economic and social freedom.
I tend to agree with Steakman. this incident has far too much "coincidence" to be coincidental. The US security community has been abuzz for the last two months warning local police and security authorities of an autumn terror event - here we see an obviously provacateured event to satiate political needs of Islamists, their leftist enablers and a lame duck president.
Too much coincidence to be coincidental
The President of Libya has just announced that the
incident was indeed preplanned.
He blames Al-Queda.
ref: Fox News
Obama gonna grow a Hitler for Movember?
How unfortunate for the world that the most powerful country is run by some pretty twisted individuals.
Barrack good to have a beer with? I'm sure Adolph was alright to have a glass of wine with too.
Evil in the making.
The idiotic thing about this is, that the more the msm and administration, obsessively fondles the belief that it as that movie, the more budding film artists it creates.
As they no longer control the medium for the message, I would expect thousands of short vignettes about every facet of Mo's life. Next up, beastality porn, starring Mo..
'Nakoula, unfortunately, set himself up for this'
...gordinkneehill at September 16, 2012 11:37 AM
Perhaps...just perhaps he is a plant.
Can any say what is really up or down...are we now living in 'Alice in Wonderland'?
Time should tell.
The world's affairs appear to have become a screenwriter's script... while that same world around us no more than a Hollywood backlot set.
I am thinking that we are now in the midst of a shark eating frenzy.
Even Al Qaeda but out a information video saying look you stupid progressives it was revenge for a drone strike.
Also if it was spontaneous why was it in Bengasi and not Tripoli where the man embassy is.
What a bunch of little kids.
rroe, since I'm not advocating any imposition of the democratic system on any nation, then, I'm not sure why you are asking me this question!
What I'm analyzing is strictly within a societal system, and I'm dealing with only two variables: the economic mode and the population size and location (urban vs rural).
If the economic mode cannot support its population then, it must either decrease the population or change the economic mode. Period. The only way to change the economic mode, since this is structural and long term is to enable a different mode of relationship between individuals and with the economy.
This occurred in the West when the old local sustenance agriculture, operating in a tribal (steady state feudalism) failed to support the population. It took over 400 violent years (eg 100 years war, plagues, famines) to free individuals from the land, to switch to a manufacturing of goods and services economy, via a market/town exchange system. This set up the middle class, a set of the population engaged in private enterprise.
It is occuring in the MENA, where the population has outstripped the capacity of the statist one-industry redistribution mode and requires a market based private business middle class economy.
All societies give political power to the class that provides the wealth of the society (eg, lords and the lands). If the middle class creates the wealth, then the political system for them is democracy.
The implosion of the dictators has led to the emergence of non-military regimes which lack, since they've never had them, the institutions and infrastructure of democracy. Already existent democracies ought to be assisting in the development of this infrastructure. This is NOT any imposition.
If this is not done, then a power vacuum appears as we now see and old tribal groups will emerge fighting each other for power.
I don't understand how you can operationally enforce a quarantine. The millions of illegals in the US and in Europe reveal how impossible that is. I also don't see how a quarantine can be achieved when we trade with them and when electronic networks share information.
Haroon Siddiqui says the problem we in the West must be more moderate:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1257385--column-moderates-in-west-must-raise-their-voices-haroon-siddiqui
One idiot makes an obscure and unwatched movie that the Islamists go out of their way to show to their people and cause tens of thousands of morons to go on a rioting, pillaging and probably raping campaign, in dozens of places outside of NA.
And we have to be more moderate. This is mind boggling. We in the West are supposed to control/censor this or that individual to prevent a co-opting by lunatics thousands of miles away.
I honestly thought from the headline he meant Muslims in NA have to be moderate, to step up and in the stongest terms disavow themselves from rioting idiots, to say they do not represent Islam (and no Haroon that hasn't happened at all). I know now my optimism is utterly misplaced - it's never going to be the fanatics' fault, this is the post-colonial era when the modern world is responsible for every barbaric act in the third world.
NA get off ME oil, please! We're from Canada, we're here to help you.
Any Jews who now vote for Obama are useful idiots beyond anything ever conceived by Lenin. – Roger Simon .
Sorry Roger but as a Jew you know they will. As a former liberal mugged by reality you know how hard it is to drop the tribal stuff and progressivism stems from the same collectivism found in Jewish tribes of yore. Which gets to the heart of why Islam (not really a religion but a nomadic way of life) is so hard for Muslims in the ME to simply drop and move on.
Humans are not hardwired like animals with survival knowledge but methinks they are hardwired to tribalism. The West has been working hard to overcome tribalism since the Magna Carta and we still haven’t succeeded…look here at home in Quebec and on our First Nations communes and the NDP Kumbayah redistributors of individual effort.
The progressives have circled themselves into a cabal of collectivists that are de facto a tribe. They do not adhere to what Romney immediately shouted out about the administration’s performance in Cairo, i.e. as being ‘disgraceful’. He went on to say :
America will not tolerate attacks against our citizens and against our embassies. We’ll defend also our constitutional rights of speech, and assembly, and religion. We have confidence in our cause in America. We respect our Constitution. We stand for the principles our constitution protects. We encourage other nations to understand and respect the principles of our constitution, because we recognize that these principles are the ultimate source of freedom for individuals around the world.
In short, that Romney statement is the Bush Doctrine and calls upon us to roll back the tribalism of collective movements that exist not only in the ME but here at home; Roger Simon calls them useful idiots who vote for Obama.
nomdeblog, a really excellent comment. Great.
Meanwhile, the Libyan president is countering the White House insistence that 'it's all due to Americans, we bigots, and our free speech video'.
Libya is saying that the attacks were premeditated and carefully planned, with a lot of foreign influence. The Congressional Intelligence Committee is saying the same thing.
But we, the public, can't ask the State Department about this. Obama's government has declared that they can't answer questions anymore, because 'it's being investigated'. Mark Steyn scoffed at this blatant closure of the Most Transparent Administration.
So lessee here On one hand a clown with a camera and a film editing suite on his computer and posts it on the net. No one ever hears about the movie but suddenly the film maker is allegedly responsible for WW III breaking out.
On the other hand president Odumass boasts about killing Bin Laden and personally picking the drone targets from his baseball card collection of known Muslim terrorists but he is in no way responsible for the increase in hostilities.
I wish I were liberal enough to believe that nonsense because as a conservative who believes in FREE SPEECH the treatment of the film maker is an affront to all that is good and just.
FrenchDip said: "As an atheist who believes that religion is evil, I believe that ALL religion should be ridiculed and mocked. It was wrong to arrest him."
Dear Quebeckie, if you really believe that (and I think you probably do) then welcome to the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.
That's who we are, people who want one set of rules for everybody and the smallest number of rules that we can get. For this we are labeled Nazis, RAAAAACISTS,and all manner of other rude things.
Please note that Mr. Mulcair is NOT on board with you. You are now under the NDPee bus for being RAAAACIST!!! and insufficiently celebratory of other people's cultural values. Watch out the back axle doesn't take your head off. Might want to think about changing your handle now that you got the memo.
Please note the number of cops in that picture up above, and ask yourself how many it ought to take to invite a film maker in for a "voluntary" interview. Wonder for a moment why the cops would need to "take him downtown" when they could just as easily talk to the the guy on his own front porch. Finally, ask yourself how all those newsies got there with cameras to take that picture, leaving a neon arrow pointing to the guy's house that even a syphilitic Afghan hillbilly could follow. And maybe wonder why the cops would put him in danger from the jihadis like that.
I was expecting -exactly- this kind of jackboot behavior from Barry's regime. Were you?
You're a sensitive artistic guy Dippy, why don't -you- make a mockery of Islam in print, film or blog. See what your buddies in the NDPee have to say about it. Might want to do the first one incognito, would be my advice.
Empty chair.....full toilet.
The flushing sound you hear in the West is.....
ET said: "I consider Obama the greatest threat to freedom in this world. Even more dangerous than the Islamist fascists for he has the power of the USA behind him."
This is absolutely true.
All you idiots that lip off to ET here all the time, you need to pull your heads out and listen up. A bunch of rag-tag hillbillies in Egypt/Libya/whatever are no threat. US federal jackboots arresting some random a-hole who made a really crappy movie, THAT is a direct threat.
Cameras and drone aircraft, airport security, highway checkpoints etc. are rubbish for catching criminals, but they are -excellent- for finding and tracking people like some random film maker who p1ssed Obama off.
Use the brain more, people.
The Star - (quote) It is reprehensible that the American ambassador to Libya and three other Americans were killed by a handful of anti-American Muslim extremists, in the name of defending Islam.
It is also reprehensible that a handful of anti-Islamic hate-mongers in the West insult the most sacred symbols of Muslims, in the name of free speech. (unquote)
So killing four innocent people is identical to exercising free speech. This written by a nice Irish lad, Haroon Siddiqui. I dont know how long ago he left Ireland or if he was born here but I recognize the thinking. Women are responsible for their rapes and non-believers are responsible for their own murders. You cant beat thinking like that out of them with a big cultural club.
America will vote this fraud in again, I,m sorry to say. Its ceased under this Muslim thug to be "The land or the brave the home of the free". I take no joy, in fact fell nothing but sorrow that its become "The home of the cowardly , the Land of the food stamp Junkie."
Thus will be impacting the World as it already has. The American era is over . Long live the dictatorships this liar has spawned . Will be the cries of his fan-boys & fan-girls.
It only took 4 years for the Soviet Union to turn Eastern Europe into a jail. It will take Obama a few more to make the USA into a jail.
This is as I said before he was elected a disaster of Civilizational proportions.
The horror is most Americans approve or are so unaware of whats happened.
Thanks, Phantom.
I also meant that Obama is the most dangerous person on earth, not only for his increasing repression of American freedoms, but for his destruction of the American middle class economy via his regulations and taxes.
And for his repression of democracy in America, via his contempt for Congress, his refusal to acknowledge its laws which he bypasses with his executive orders and czars.
And for his abandonment of the MENA to the vacuum of intertribal age-old hatred and fights for power, for his enabling the rise of Iran as an imperialist nuclear power, his enabling of the rise of Russia as a key player in this destructive MENA.
And, for his cynical contempt for truth, integrity, and, for the great values found in the American Constitution.
ET and Phantom.
Good comments.
The President swears to protect the Constitutional rights of EVERY American. He has violated his oath. His whole administration treats the 1st amendment as an Optional Political Correctness issue.
The arrest is/was a Federal criminal (civil rights) act by the Obama Administration & MUST be prosecuted. Those police knew they were breaking the LAW.
To ET’s and Phantom’s point about where the danger really is, which one of these is telling the truth?
President Mohamed Magariaf: Attacks planned for months; I told US State Department of specific date 3 days ahead.
US Ambassador United Nations, Susan Rice: No it wasn't. It was spontaneous.
ET >
“And for his repression of democracy in America, via his contempt for Congress” - ET
You apparently had no issue with Obamba circumventing congress to attack Libya.
I suppose Obamba’s contempt for Congress along with Executive Orders and Czars are OK with you only if it fits your personal agenda like supporting the blissful “Arab Spring” and socially engineering a middle class with a few bombs and theories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovuWJQrwpIw
Good interview today with John Bolton and Greta V. On the matter.
WARNING: May be offensive to Academic Extra Terrestrials, and other Obamba/ Arab Spring supporters.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/2012/09/15/bolton-obama-administrations-theory-middle-east-appears-have-broken-down-completely
"And for his abandonment of the MENA to the vacuum of intertribal age-old hatred and fights for power" ET
Maybe to force them into the Arms of the EU/UN
Scar @ 1:09,
I was very disappointed to see Donato's cartoon in the Sun, saying pretty much the same as the Star quote:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/13/september-14-2012
Donata is off the mark on this one, along with half the media toadies.
knight 99 - I repeatedly critiqued Obama for his contempt of Congress re the Libyan War, and for his arrogant comment that it wasn't a 'war' because there were no 'boots on the ground'. Bombs from the air are acts of war.
I know that you feel that you have a mission (as a knight?) to constantly berate me, but I think you should stick to the issues.
Scar said: "So killing four innocent people is identical to exercising free speech."
Sure is, Scar. The Toronto (Red) Star is the house propaganda organ of the NDPee nationally, so the stuff you read there is how the Dippers decided to spin events. The Canadian Left is now officially throwing Free Speech under the bus, as I mentioned above to the FrenchDipper doofus. They've decided that some people are more equal than others, Animal Farm style. Atheists are no longer a special protected species here in Canaduh.
If Barack Obama is the most dangerous man in the world, Brian Mulcair is momentarily the most dangerous man in Canada. Fortunately the Separatists won the Quebec election and they are not friends with the NDPee.
Will nobody besides me note that EVERY uniformed officer in that photo also swore an oath to the SAME Consitution? And that oath is the SOLE source of their authority? And that by spitting on that oath as they have so clearly done makes them traitors of the foulest kind, pretending to be "Law Enforcement" when, without their oath, they are clearly NOT?
" You apparently had no issue with Obamba circumventing congress to attack Libya." Knight99
If you understood US law you would not have said that in the way you did. Obama followed an UN obligation (right to interfere) and ignored
a long standing tradition of US law. He is the United Nations President, not my President! Don't you find it strange that the Person with the "MOST" first hand Knowledge on National issues works at the UN- Dr Rice
The issue of democracy for Libya, or any other Country with a dictator, does not stand or fall on the actions of one useless Turd. The ME needs Democracy..it's simple
ET >
"..but I think you should stick to the issues."
That IS the issue.
Obamba has trashed the constitution, resigned and reinforced the Patriot Act, put into force the National Defense Authorization Act and injected the American people into Europe’s foreign affairs on their orders.
The Arab spring was an abomination to American values, so is arresting and detaining political prisoners as with this obscure online filmmaker.
I will continue to point out the absurdities and dangers of Liberal Progressive agendas and mock all those who support them if even in part.
It’s not a mission to berate you, at all, but I will not standby silently reading you push Obamba’s failed and dangerous policies as some betterment of humanity. Yes it is indeed Obamba’s failed “Arab Spring” not George Bush Doctrine point #4.
George W Bush did not invade or overthrow Gaddafi or Mubarak, he sensibly used them as allies in the region, and they we’re comfortable places for tourist, expatriates and overall business to travel to. Each country had a high for Africa standard of living, controlled the extreme elements of their society, and each was generally at peace with Israel.
Today not so much, and selling the social engineering benefits of a 3 generation waiting period while we lose our own freedoms to the same enablers of the Arab Spring ( To the excuses of Islamic extremism) is beyond absurd.
The FBI Sharia Enforcement office, have leaked several names of innocents to Obama Media inc-assholey. What happens when they get some innocent killed because liberal media is desperate to find Obama a scape-goat. Make no doubt about it Liberal Media is fabricating bold faced lies about the movie being the motivation for the riots.
nomdeblog said: "To ET’s and Phantom’s point about where the danger really is, which one of these is telling the truth?"
What, they can't both be lying? Of course they can!
However we have reports from a variety of sources that the US had advance warning, so Magariaf may not be lying. Conversely Rice seems to be lying, again supported by independent report.
Doesn't mean Magariaf is a great guy and we should love him, just means he doesn't have control of the Cairo cops and there's more than one player at work.
The Muslim Brotherhood is not the most radical faction at work in the ME these days, a fact that ought to be more sobering to the US State Dept. than is seems to have been of late.
All of the above could be completely wrong, because we don't have trustworthy sources of info in the Middle East OR here in N. America.
Besides, the whole thing is just a propaganda exercise. Something shiny to take the locals eyes off their problems, another crisis not to be wasted by Obama's minions. Couple embassies get rushed by punks, couple of American guys get killed? This is mostly US State Department incompetence, not some vast nefarious plot.
Phillip G. Shaw >
“The ME needs Democracy..it's simple ‘
And they got it, why don’t you go take a tour the pyramids in celebration, maybe set up a little business while you’re there.
Also check out a few of their centuries old Christian churches I hear some are quite the historic landmarks.
The ME needs Democracy..it's simple – Phillip G Shaw
Exactly! And together with the empowerment of the mainstreet voters capitalism will evolve. In places like Egypt that will involve the wresting away from the corrupt military their tight grasp on the economy. The entrepreneurial economy needs to work from the ground up or from the middle class as ET keeps hammering away at and ET needs support on that argument. Because the flaws we see in the Middle East are sitting right under our noses at home too.
Obama and his class warfare mantra ( that would be duplicated in a flash in Canada by our official opposition the NDP, given a chance) are intended to create a 2-class system of elites and the rest; thereby wiping out the key to North American economic triumphs over the last century by ramping up redistribution. That class warfare is a tool used by communists, fascists and Islamists. We need to be careful throwing stones from our glass houses that have flaws in them which is what Roger Simon is warning us in his sarcasm about -arrest me.
Meanwhile Brit Hume just said on Fox : We are seeing a Foreign Policy novice learning that his mere Obamaness is simply not sufficient to change the fact the ME is a tinderbox.
This is a tragedy on so many levels. First of all, they appointed a homosexual to a Middle Eastern post. They ignored the fact that he was a risk simply by reason of that. Secondly, despite being warned of potential trouble, they made no attempt to warn the Ambassador or his staff. Perhaps if he had known he wouldn't have remained in Benghazi.
Thirdly, the Marines that were guarding the embassy were denied live ammunition. I would suggest someone ( the buck stops with the President) is guilty of negligent homicide/manslaughter.
Phillip G. Shaw >
“If you understood US law you would not have said that in the way you did. Obama followed an UN obligation...”
The UN is a corrupt Liberal Progressive Socialist cesspit, with Islamist and genocidal war criminals sitting on its security council. – nuff said.
The non-interventionism solutions I’ve expressed on all of these threads (defined by ET as Isolationism) were the foundational principles of the American Constitution, expressed by George Washington (Farwell Address), Thomas Paine (Common Sense) & Thomas Jefferson.
"We wish not to meddle with the internal affairs of any country, nor with the general affairs of Europe. Peace with all nations, and the right which that gives us with respect to all nations, are our object." --Thomas Jefferson to C. W. F. Dumas, 1793. ME 9:56
"I sincerely join... in abjuring all political connection with every foreign power; and though I cordially wish well to the progress of liberty in all nations, and would forever give it the weight of our countenance, yet they are not to be touched without contamination from their other bad principles. Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Lomax, 1799. ME 10:124
It is prosperous to me to read people defending American values and Liberties while thumbing their noses at the founding principles that formed the American Constitution. Equally absurd is the arrogant de facto support for Obamba’s American hating foreign policies including the “Arab Spring”, snubbing Israel, along with ignoring Israel’s policies and tactics in dealing with regional and global Islamic threats.
The “Arab Spring” was never manufactured FOR American security or Arab democracy. The proof is in the pudding, and its radical Islam, not little freedom loving university brats in tight jeans and an iPhone floating in it.
No, Knight 99, I totally reject Obama. The Arab Spring had zilch to do with him and everything to do with Bush. I suggest you read up on the Bush Doctrine.
Obama's tactic in the MENA,as Krauthammer, as Simon, as Brit Hume, as others have outlined was the ridiculous 'lead from behind', ie, to do nothing.
Therefore, what he did was to withdraw all support for establishing democratic institutions and instead, support the dictators, including Ahmandinejad, support Iran's nuclear agenda, support Syria's Assad. Hardly an 'Arab Spring'. Oh, and throw Israel under the bus.