Another day, another wind-power let down in Ontario;
Right now, two-thirty p.m. on Wednesday August 29 2012, the provincial wind fleet is letting its hair down, enjoying the productivity equivalent of a glass of vino in the middle of the afternoon. That is to say, the wind fleet is not producing very much at this moment, even though it is continually touted as the energy of the future. [...] Though theoretically capable of generating around 1700 megawatts at this moment, the wind fleet is actually generating only 84 MW.
h/t Rob
And yet all the crap about wind ( and solar) was known and obvious from day 1 and they still went ahead.
Somehow no politicians or greenie lobbyists will be hung, in effigy or otherwise, for their complete lack of intelligence, judgement or flagrant waste of money in "mal-investing" anything in wind.
Fred2 at August 30, 2012 5:05 PM
175 years between revolutions is a long time...maybe this time we will get it right.
No surprise really as it's well known that wind power sucks during the summer in this region (when demand peaks due to air conditioning). At least solar PV has decent load matching characteristics (its cost is another matter).
On Bishop Hill's site there are two very interesting and related blogs on wind farms.
One discusses the fact that because of the high degree of variability in the output, wind turbines actually save much less CO2 emissions than thought (or advertised!).
The other covers an EU ruling that has found that proper environmental assessment procedures were not followed for EU windfarms and that the whole feed-in tariff program structure is consequently illegal.
The applicable legislation is the Aarhus Convention, to which Canada did not sign, but Ontario "adopted" some of its principles.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/8/27/un-ruling-eu-must-reassess-renewables-policy.html
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/8/28/gross-out.html
That would be hilarious if it hadn't doubled my hydro bill in the last couple of years. Today, I opted for the car to go to work instead of my usual bicycle because the weather forecast was calling for high winds. I just about killed myself battling the 2o plus km/h head winds yesterday.
Oooh, they're peaking. Time to break out the bubbly
84 MWH instead of "peak" of 1.7 GWH. Hummmmm. So either the wind blows,at the perfect speed,100% of the time 24/7/365,and NO line lose.What a bargain.
OR....McDinky builds another 20 wind farms generating 84 MWH, to possibly get to 50% of 1.7 GWH. OR,he admits it's a scam,and quits being an a&&hole.(Ok,so the 2nd will never happen)
84 Megawatts! Holy moly! That`s like the AA batteries in the Maglite that I use to find the breaker when the porch lite goes out!!
Seriously folks! Leave windmills for Saskatchewan, or for that island (Sylt) that EBD featured on Reader Tips, the one in the North Sea where the wind blows 24-7.
Right, nothing new about any of this. The fleet of about 1200 wind turbines has struggled all summer to generate above .5% of Ont. demand. Worse when they do suddenly come on the grid with electricity, water is dumped over hydro dams to make way for the surplus power. In these cases 13.5c kwh power is replacing 3c green hydro power. Since wind power became a priority under McGuinty, 86% of wind electricity was generated when Ont was already in a surplus situation. Excess electricity is dumped in US for what it will fetch, about 3.5 c. or sometimes Americans are paid to take it. This is not a sound business plan for a company, but it is the McGuinty plan for Ont.
Once again I get to show my most prized picture of lunacy in action.
http://quixoteslaststand.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/untitled2.png
...And today was a very windy day in Ontario. Yesterday was also a very windy day; I took my son and his friend to the EX; we had to pass by Toronto's monument to the wind god...it wasn't turning despite the strong winds.
I did a bike ride from Kincardine to Southampton this summer on another windy day and rode through the valley of the wind gods...from what I could see, maybe, maybe half of the fans were turning.
Wind is an expensive joke! Despite my family's (successful) efforts to cut our electricity usage, our hydro bill keeps going up!!!
@ Steve E..."it wasn't turning despite the strong winds."
It can't,or it will literally self destruct. The optimum windspeed is about 8 knots (11 MPH). Anything above or below,and they are just an ugly piece of scrap on the landscape.
There's lots of doublespeak about wind. 84 MW is actually not bad for a summer low pressure zone. Over recent years, I've seen it happen every summer where the Ontario fleet never got above 15 MW during an entire week. And yes, even 84 MW is utterly useless for a fleet that size.
It should also be noted that you need to examine Vesta's technical specifications very carefully. Turbines are built for a 20 year lifespan. But, again according to Vesta the manufacturer, you only get that if the turbines operate at no more than 80 per cent capacity factor. Deterioration increases rapidly over that amount.
So in practice, Ontario's fleet of 1700 MW is actually only 1360 MW if you intend to run it to get the full lifetime claimed by the manufacturer.
thee up side of this fiasco is that McGympy can't pay the teachers any more, so maybe next election they won't support the idiot and he goes down in flames:-)))
We drive by Shelburn Ontario fairly often, and I use to say to my kids, "Look, they forgot to plug in the wind makers today!"
Somehow no politicians or greenie lobbyists will be hung, in effigy or otherwise, for their complete lack of intelligence, judgement or flagrant waste of money in "mal-investing" anything in wind. Fred2
The greens did not demand the fans out of lack of intelligence. On the contrary, the entire thing was their idea, and it is proceeding exactly as planned.
What will be done with all the turbines when they are no longer used?
They must be dismantled so we can get our beautiful countryside back!
Frank Q:
Eventually the towers will be dismantled at huge cost to Ont. taxpayers.The bases containing about 300 yd of reinforced concrete will remain forever.
This irreplaceable crop land, nearly all wind installations are Cl 1 land, will be lost. This is the legacy of green fantasies and corporate greed.
It is both a tragedy and a comedy that the immense technical capabilities of our civilisation go to maintain the illusions of fools.
A disastrous failure? It can easily be compensated - easily but not cheaply; and most people are economically subhuman - they don't grasp cause and effect.
Hmm.. if I decided I was only going to produce 5% of my output on Wednesday afternoon, I wonder if I could tell my manager that it's because I'm "green"?
small c, "The greens did not demand the fans out of lack of intelligence. On the contrary, the entire thing was their idea, and it is proceeding exactly as planned."
Exactly, all part of the plan to dehumanize the earth.
Martin:
You are so right.
Next question: How long until this happens?
Martin I doubt if the people in the cities will be so silent when farmer Brown whines he's got two or three turbine towers on his land he wants to get rid of and he wants his neighbors to pay for there removal. For once the farmers who settled for the fast (taxpayer) bucks are going to need to take their medicine because if wind power goes bust, they can also as it serves them right.
To add to the dismantling discussion; the plan calls to 'rehabilitate' the turbine site to the original condition to a depth of 3 feet. The cement will stay in the ground. When will the dismantling begin? Shortly after fiscal reality rises up and bites Ontarians like a rabid dog. When the subsidies are discontinued first there will be expensive court cases, then more expensive buy out options, the companies (almost if not all foreign) will flee looking for the next sucker politican, and the taxpayer will face the cost of the most dishonest Premier in Ontario's history fanciful menage a trois with green energy and public sector unions. GOD help us in Ontario.
Individuals will not have the resources to tear them down and I assume the wind companies will simply walk away, or go bankrupt. If the abandoned towers are to be removed, for aesthetic and safety reasons, then taxpayers will be left holding the bag. I expect they will pay more to dismantle them, then to construct them. Someone might ask McGuinty about longterm liability. The issue could arise long before their 20 year life span.
farmerboy: I have seen some reference to rehabilitation, but the bases at the Ripley site have concrete level with the ground. Do they really propose to blast or hammer this out down to 3'? This would be prohibitively expensive for a large turbine site. What is your understanding of the mechanics involved?
Maybe it's just me but why should the tax payer be on the hook? Really are you getting cheaper hydro, a cut of the "action", did you sign the land lease? Why oh why should we be bailing out individuals who overlooked the obvious? Do we reimburse those that lose on the bottom of pyramid schemes?
If the taxpayer in Ontario would quit subsidizing utter stupidity, maybe this would be a different province to live in?
I'm from rural Southwestern Ontario and I say sc--- the farmers with turbines if they end up losing.
Enough is enough.
martin, farmerboy: the decommissioning of wind turbines depends upon the lease contract, which I do not know. However, even if the wind company is required to decommission, it will be subject to force majeure, meaning the company is wound up and decommissioning is treated as just another creditor in liquidating the assets. It will be subject to judicial bankruptcy proceedings, which even if discharged will take years to go through the legal system.
What is also clear is that there is no decommissioning fund. For nuclear power, companies like Bruce Power and OPG have to have funds sufficient to decommission their facilities at the end of their useful lifetimes. No such provision exists for any other form of electricity generation including the renewables. Any such funds for decommissioning will have to be found either from the residual assets of the failed wind generating company or from the Ontario taxpayer.
Eventually the towers will be dismantled at huge cost to Ont. taxpayers.The bases containing about 300 yd of reinforced concrete will remain forever.
This irreplaceable crop land, nearly all wind installations are Cl 1 land, will be lost. This is the legacy of green fantasies and corporate greed.
Yes, they will be long-term reminders of the Dalton years, just as the 700,000 mini-bunkers built by the Albabian communists remind people of the Hoxha years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunkers_in_Albania
Wind turbines got installed near West Cape PEI.
7/52 were turning when I saw them in July,wtf!
Farmers made a killing selling/leasing their land.
You guys in Ontario are F uuuuuuuckeddddddddddd. I for one don't feel sorry for you. Liberal after Liberal has ruined this country and you stood by and watched.
Well, I don't see decommissioning wind turbines as a huge problem. There has to be plenty of scrap value in the towers and the generators. The concrete bases, just drill a grid of holes six feet deep, pack them with ANFO, and blast the top off them. The towers around here a hollow tubes of substantial size; just saw 'em off about 20 feet above the ground, and make them into grain silos.
combine wind power with these twisty light bulbs,
what next,
kerosene oil lamps?
gordinkneehill - I have never voted for a liberal in my life. I have actively been a member of other political parties. So short of taking up arms I have pretty well done everything I can.
Well said "MUGS"
As far as decommissioning....it occurred to me that the bases would make excellant footings for other construction...except like real estate it is location location location........
Well, the stinkin' giant fans near me are built on good grain cropland. Turning them into grain silos would mean that land that would otherwise be used for building silos can continue to be cropped.
There is normally only one tower per quarter-section anyway, possibly two in a few cases, so the actual amount of land lost is quite small.
In SW Ont the turbines are crowded in much closer than 1 per 160 acres. When you consider the roadways to each tower and other land losses, the disappearence of cropland is significant. My home township plans 160 towers and it is on some of the best land in Ont.
To pave over any cropland is not adviseable but to do so for utterly useless wind turbines, is totally senseless.
Ont has thousands of acres of crown land and abandoned marginal land unsuited for croping. Wind power makes no economic sense whatever, but if they have to be built, they could go in these areas.
There is no evidence that McGuinty and his advisors ever considered this, or even know what cropland looks like.