In The Mail

I'm sure it's a great book, but keep your advertisements on the sidebar please. I know this is a common practice, but it's one I have little tolerance and less respect for.

It is her web site - I guess she can put it where ever she wants- I kind of like it as is !

Think I'll download the Kindle version. Interesting read, Thanks Kate.

I know that in the culture war that rages around us the dark side which enbrace statust authoritarianism, propaganda, deception and street theater, must, of neccessity, denounce and repress the Judeo-Christian ethic upon which free democratic republics and the rule of law are founded. Mush of the anti-Christian narrative is purposeful stigmatization of the etic which underpins the most free, individualist, self realizing society in human history. The coming global order must make this a distant memiry to make their ideals ( which are primarily criminal) seem like a superior ethic.

Thanks for the tip Kate, I love a good read.

America was not founded on 'Judeo-Christian values' (whatever those are) but on individualism and secular government.

"I'm sure it's a great book, but keep your advertisements on the sidebar please. I know this is a common practice, but it's one I have little tolerance and less respect for.
Posted by: Andrew at June 22, 2012 5:41 PM "

Maybe you have a bit of tolerance and respect if it was YOU paying the BW. Nah. Forget it. Leftards have neither.
Great book,Kate. Got my Kindle version.

What Roni and Occam said.

LAS, tell that to the Pilgims.

LAS @ 7:45 PM

The western heritage of the rule of law in liberal democratic society is based in the epoch of Jewish and Christian law as primarily liberal enlightenment’s legal expression of the 10 commandments – codifying biblical and Talmudic “crimes” such as killing, stealing, perjury- fraud (false witness), etc. – and please don't preach to me like I’m some mindless born again moony – I have problems with organized religion of all brands and its leaders, but it is intellectual dishonesty to presume the US founders and Canadian Fathers, or the idealists they emulated like Locke, Smith, Blackstone or any of the proponents of liberal populist enlightenment were dower secular atheists. Militant secularism is a machination of post modernist philosophy most of which forms the core ideals of political movements which reject liberal democracy, it’s rule of law, it’s free society, individual rights and of course, freedom of religion.

I can't see anti-Christian secular progressives writing things like "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" or "one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." or maybe this: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"
Or this from James Madison the father of the Constitution: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

Or Patrick Henry "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

Or the fact Bible verses are carved into all the original federal buildings.

Or that the Supreme court building has a fresco in it showing Moses and the 10 commandments?

Or that Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches

Or that court reaffirmed fact the US 1st amendment was not a directive for freedom FROM religion but freedom to worship as one wills and to never install a state religion - such as Anglicanism or atheist secularism.

The mention of deity in all the documents of liberal democratic freedom is openly generic but it is a deference to universal faith in God-given law as the final arbiter of human morality, not the state.

So without getting into another silly circular non sequitur filled argument with yet another deluded revisionist over religion and the roll of the state, I'm ending this with a plea for you to educate yourself. If I have to explain what Judeo-Christian ethos is I just have to say where ever you received your revisionist indoctrination it has done you an intellectual wrong and left you wanting in both knowledge of subject, reason and propriety.

Andrew...where is your blog?

Occam..right on. I need to c&p that for a quick reference in arguments with those deluded by a revisionist history.

Occam , well said. Like bluetech, I would like to copy and paste your comment into my files.

@ Occam:

Not much I can really add there, as you have shot down LAS in flames with nary a parachute in sight.
The trip down does'nt hurt so much, but the landing is mighty disagreeable...OUCH.

Matthew 6:19-22 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”

Occam

nice try, but without PROOF of your nonsense, it's just that nonsense. Many churchs were, and , ar filled with people who attend for "social" reasons, rather than their belief. And in older times it meant that they were not ostracized from the community, so they attended out of need. Now as to the consitution, again, you have NO proof of your assurssion as to what motivated those who formed it, they may have found prudent to cater to the "believers" so as not to creat waves. You and those like you should understand the difference between fact and belief!!!!!

Posted by: NME666 at June 22, 2012 11:44 PM

"you have NO proof"

And what kind of proof would that be? I have heard that statement ad nauseam and have absolutely no idea on what that question or statement means.

It is like a little child sticking their fingers in their ears and singing a song with their eyes shut, trying to ignore the question.

Not too dissimilar to your "show me the proof".

And that of your...hero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX6XMIldkRU

NmE66,
You are not an American, or your family have been in America for less than 5 Generations!

What you & your kind forget is that some of us are the descendants of the Cape Cod Pilgrims.
We have family histories seeped in the past & religions of those times. We have family Bibles that where used to record the stories that your kind think you understand...

Just because someone seemed to practice religion in a less than appropriate manner is
simply none of your business, religion for some, is very personal…

Well stated 1st Ammendment, Occam

That doesn't disprove my point really at all. The Founders still believed God was to be kept out of government and vice versa. One of them was a deist. It was Enlightenment values that made the basis for the US Constitution not JC values wich can be found in frickin Venezuela.

Contrary to a lot of thought, religion was not as important politically back then as it is today. Washington was suspected of Atheism by a lot of people. Wasn't true but a lot of people thought it so. Didn't stop him from winning. Sadly, the same could not be said today.

When I receive a complimentary book in the mail, I acknowledge it, whether they're an advertiser or not.

Stop the nonsense LAS and Nme66 (add another 6 why dontcha?):

Who do you think established public hospitals and educational institutions for the benefit and good of all? Who do you think established safety nets -- orphanages, latterly homes for unwed mothers, benevolent societies? Practising Christians, that's who -- as nearly everyone back in the beginning years of the U.S.A. and Canada believed in the Judeo-Christian God and unashamedly and openly practised their faith. They took seriously the Biblical injunction to love their neighbour as themselves and Jesus's directive that whatever you do for the least of His brethren you do for Him.

Who's running the out of the cold/heat programs in downtown cities? Who's running clothing and food depots? As far as I can make out, it sure as hell isn't secular atheists. It's Christian churches which rely heavily on volunteer labour: donating food, preparing food, offering hospitality and outreach, cleanup detail, etc. If the government ran these programs, they'd price them right out of existence within a few months. Either that, or the poor would end up with substandard fare, delivered haphazardly, as we know happens when unionized government workers take over any task.

So, boys, know your history, be aware of what's still happening. Now, you prove to the rest of us that secular atheists are pulling their weight with organized programs to help the down and out, and I'll try to give you a listen. In the meantime, our democratic laws, rights and freedoms, founded on Judeo-Christian principles and values, continue to undergird our open society -- and are the reason so many immigrants from countries not founded on these same principles have been flocking to our shores.

Unfortunately, as more North Americans take on your views, that religion is bad and that government must be based on individualism and secularism, we see less and less interest in loving our neighbours as ourselves. We see more greed and corruption, more give-me, give-me and "the government" -- which, actually, is each individual taxpayer -- "owes me, whether I work or not" attitudes. The less we're in touch with the faith of our fathers and mothers, which taught succeeding generations to be responsible and accountable not only to themselves but to those around them, friend and stranger alike, the more arid and languid our secular public landscape becomes.

batb, well said.

Thanks, KenK.

Unfortunately, these upstarts, NmE66 and LAS, have no idea that the rights and freedoms they are privileged to enjoy -- and seem to be taking advantage of -- are on the shoulders of committed Christian politicians, lay people, and clergy, of the past few centuries.

Unfortunately for them and all of us, the Judeo-Christian capital is running out. The bank's almost empty. When the ethical and moral "funds" run out, NmE66 and LAS will be the first to exclaim, "Huh?! What happened? Where're my beer and perks?"

I guess they figure that the knight on his shining,secular, individual charger is going to race to their rescue.

Not a chance.

I think Andy maybe no lika eagles!

Occam's argument has been amply demonstrated by competent historians who have done their homework. John Wesley Bready's classic study England Before and After Wesley was written after the author set out to demonstrate something along the lines of what LAS asserts, but the facts convinced him of the opposite. The shorter version This Freedom --Whence? is more readily available and demonstrates the clear historical ignorance of those who would deny the Biblical roots of the values that gave birth to the Western notions of liberty and equality enshrined in our Constitution. A more recent work is Alvin Schmidt's How Christianity Changed the World. And there is the large body of work by the widely respected sociologist, Rodney Stark. The documentation here is overwhelming and should be enough to convince any honest inquirer that Occam is correct here.

What's worse than reading the tirade of some against Christianity is the fact it is waning on numbers.

We talk of how this/these countries was found on Christianity and its values. But where are they today?

My wife's history goes way back to the Steeves and he being one of the founding father of Confederation.

Fast foward today and only a handful of Steeves are true born again Christians. Even one generation ago, they were church attending United folk.

Oh, and regarding occam's shot at 'born again moonies' - maybe you didn't mean to, but would be good to separate the two distinctions in a general reference.

I am born again. Had a real experience and not a moonie.

July 26, 1979, on a highway, God and me 33 years ago and going strong.

John 3:3, not 16 ;-)