The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire

Good for the facebook guy.

By renouncing his US citizenship, he saves $340 million in taxes.

“Ex-PATRIOT” – “Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy” – Act
Possibly the stupidest name ever for a government program.

During Vietnam we let draft dodgers up here maybe we can let the tax dodgers up. Just to drive tommie the commie completely insane.

It seems I read about this in a book somewhere.

It could easily be a chapter from Atlas Shrugged. Surprised it wasn't, but it maybe it was too absurdist.

As a Canadian, I applaud this move by the two U.S. Senators.  Such a law will dissuade high-rollers all over the planet from emigrating to the U.S.  All the more for us.  ;-)

Damnit, now I'll have that song in my head all day. Thanks.

I am surprised that they aren't accusing him of treason and asking that he be hunted down with a drone strike.

I am surprised that they aren't accusing him of treason and asking that he be hunted down with a drone strike.

Hollande in France is considering a similar scheme to prevent rich people from emigrating to avoid his draconian tax proposals.

sorry about the double post.

Rather than addressing the problem of high capital and corporate taxes, these two Democrat Senators are playing the emotional prima donna role.

They transform what is a genuine and very serious tax problem into a red herring of 'emotional betryal'.

A businessman has a vicious choice in the US, a choice placed on him by the extremely high taxes. Either you hand over your profits to the US govt, which then merely distributes them for Consumption functions. OR, you INVEST your profits into expanding your business, starting up new businesses, hiring more people, PRODUCING more wealth for more people.

Again, the government doesn't make wealth; it's not engaged in Investment or Production. All it does is take wealth away from those two vital economic actions - and distribute it to non-wealth producers for Consumption purposes.

The problem with such an emotionally noble agenda is that this tax grab can be so high that it removes the capacity of the economy to Invest and Produce wealth. That's what is happening in the US.

But, rather than deal with these tax problems, the US borrows more and more money to fund its distribution activities. This increases the debt and interest load...and it has to tax more and borrow more.

But, heck, to declare that a US citizen cannot renounce his citizenship, for whatever reason, well, I'm sure they'll define this as ..I'm not sure what. It certainly has nothing to do with the Declaration of Independence and freedom.

Yea, ET. Cry me a river. The US taxpayer invested hundreds of thousands in this guy's education. America gave him a huge head start in the world and the fantastic opportunity to easily make an unfathomable amount of wealth with very little personal risk. He will get 4,000,000,000, more than any reasonable human being will ever need or could ever spend. And he wants every last dime, rather than give something back. He'll "visit" from Singapore, continue to enjoy America, use its airports, its highways, pick through the graduates of its schools for employees. Unlike the schmuck flipping burgers, he won't give anything back, no matter how little the impact would be on his wealth. (Does having 3 billion really make you worse off than someone who has 4 billion?) That's utter greed, and the senators are right to call him on it.

FW (ironic handle, btw),

I suspect that a lot more benefit to mankind will come from this guy spending/investing his own profits than would come from Washington doing it for him.

Lou

My favorite part is that if this passes, they'll hunt these guys down with way more force than, say, the millions of illegals.

Sounds like the good senator is a big fan of history, inspired by the likes of East Germany and it's walls to keep people IN, or perhaps the confiscation of bank accounts/properties of the Jews as they tried to flee Germany in the 30's.

Freedom Warrior it is not his fault that taxpayers helped fund his education, the funds were stolen from them by their rulers and they allowed it.

You need to rethink your moniker.

Slavery Lover:

1) Where do you get the idea the US invested "hundreds of thousands" in this guy's education? He went to a private prep school after coming to the US from Brazil as an 11-year old, and went from there to a private university. How, EXACTLY, were "hundreds of thousands" invested in him during his 12 years in America?

2) What freakin' head start did America give him? He was a bright kid before he got to America, he had rich parents who made their money outside America, and he apparently hasn't taken a dime in US government money? How, EXACTLY, did America give him a head start?

3) He'll continue to "enjoy" American airports? This is a minor point, but: thousands of people are arranging their flight schedules specifically to avoid American airports, since they don't find the idea of being groped by overweight, undereducated thugs with chips on their shoulders appealing. Also, you are aware that airlines pay enormous landing fees (and travelers pay airport surcharges) to cover the airports' costs, aren't you? Silly question, as you don't seem to be aware of much.

4) Unless Saverin's successful in unloading a majority of his FB shares pretty quickly, his chance of realizing $4B is remote; like most hyped IPO's, FB's share price will likely peak on issue day, and drift downward from there. The amount Saverin makes is neither here nor there to me; I merely point this out to demonstrate how clueless you are regarding financial markets.

5) Who are you, or worse, the lowly beings denoted "US Senators", to decide how much of anyone's wealth they are allowed to keep? What these short-sighted buffoons are doing is ensuring that the next generation of entrepeneurs will choose more vibrant and less kleptopric (that's a new word I just made) states, like, say Canada, Taiwan, or even Singapore to start their ventures. Nose, face, cut, spite, as they used to say. PET used to say "Fish swim"; well, capital flies. Get used to it.

6) Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? You divulge your assets here, and the reasonable people at SDA will tell you how much you deserve to keep, and how much should be taken from you to use for more noble pursuits. Yeah, I didn't think so.

Freedom Warrior >

“Unlike the schmuck flipping burgers, he won't give anything back,...”

Neither will the government.

Maybe the US should stop creating schmucks that flip burgers and create more entrepreneurs. That would go hand in hand with reclaiming their lost manufacturing based economy instead of the current service economy.

Not returning to the US is no threat to anyone in this day and age. These Liberal idiots sold off what anyone ever liked about America, now they sit there and pretend like its some land of milk and honey worthy of peoples investment and patronage.

It’s a flyover country for anyone with any money now.

The role of righteous indignation is for the public. The role of fixing the ridiculously onerous tax code is for the government. The right of departure is still the citizens.

I make no bones about calling Severin an ingrate and a defector. He has taken the easy road twice now. First from Brazil only to later use insider trading tactics on their market from U.S. soil; and now from the U.S. presumably to avoid tax burdens without protest.

Singapore is an interesting place. It is run by one party, has successfully hog tied unions with anti strike provisions, and does not use a jury system.

Somehow I see great potential for him to run afoul of the law there. Perhaps an underage prostitute will do the trick.

That Senator Schumer has devolved to advocating Banana Republic laws is no surprise. It's too bad equivalent penalties were not imposed on Schumer and his comrades in Congress for every day that the US government ran a deficit. He belongs behind bars.

As to the hype of Face Book, why do the "experts" think a P/E over 30 makes sense when there are lots of stocks with P/E's under 10?

Freedom Warrior - you certainly don't follow the facts or know a thing about economics!

Others have pointed out the facts of his private school education, and your glaring errors in this regard - as well as the errors of his use of highways and airports and so on.

Your absymal ignorance of economics trumps your errors of facts. Do you seriously think that this man or any wealthy man keeps their wealth stuffed into their old socks? Is that what you think?

Do you know how an economy works? It's triadic: Investment, Production and only then, Consumption. The first two are carried out by private businesses - which INVEST their wealth (they've removed it from those smelly old socks) into building factories, industries, new technology, research, etc...and hire lots of workers to PRODUCE goods and services.

The government doesn't do this. All it does is tax wealth away from these two vital economic actions of Investment and Production, which means they don't get done...and distribute this 'wealth' into such productive agencies as the massive unionized public bureaucracies, and social services such as welfare, unemployment, food stamps...

The basic communal projects, such as roads, schools and bridges etc, take up only a pittance of the government funding agenda.

Now, tell us, how do YOU think an economy produces wealth? Hmmm? And what do you think should be done with this wealth? Jobs or food stamps? Hmmm?

Try a basic course in economics. Oh, and remember, try for the facts of a situation rather than jumping into an ice cold fictional river of angst.

∞ ≠ ø >

"I make no bones about calling Severin an ingrate and a defector."

I'd put the Liberal constitution destroyers, open border advocates, and welfare ghetto creators at a higher level on the ingrate scale.

Singapore is a Socialist police state that caters to the rich; he’ll do quite fine there.

Aside from prostitution being illegal save for a few prostitution ignored zones (Orchard Towers aka “4 floors of whores”) he can jump to Batam Island a few minutes away by ferry for legal prostitution. Thailand is also only an hour flight away.

Also there is no welfare in Singapore, the poor or disenfranchised get social assistance though church charities alone. In fact there are far fewer street people or homeless than any major North American city.

Lou-FTW!

@Freedumb Warrior- You want to know who is really greedy? The lifetime welfare scum (the entitled to their entitlements) who want the latest iPhone, big screen TV, their cigs & booze, who then complain there isn't enough $ for food or shelter. Those are the kinds of people who give absolutely nothing back to society. Now that's "utter greed."

"You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave."

Makes the Eagles seem downright prescient.

How is allowing this guy to dodge paying tax going to look to the average schmuck making $60K/year with his own tax bills and a mortgage? Listen, I am a free market proponent, but the working stiff can't run off to Singapore to avoid his (much more onerous, relatively speaking) tax bill.

I understand the global economy and capital markets, but the fact of the matter is the Facebook was set up as an American company for very good reasons. It's not like these guys just found out about the potential for capital gains taxes.

Canada levies such a tax already, I believe. If you renounce CDN citizenship and residency CRA levies a 30% tax on your Canadian assets before you can take them out of the country.

All this does is encourage people to jump ship faster. Ironic that Canada could potentially be a tax haven? Maybe you should make Victoria and Halifax mini Monte Carlos for US Citizens looking for a change?

I am not such a huge fan of Severin on this matter, but he is apparently living most of the time in Singapore and if he makes a choice on citizenship for tax purposes he has the right to do it (that does not necessarily make it right). There is also an issue of double taxation by being a duel citizen. I would like to see the U.S. tax system reformed so we are not driving wealth out of our system (trying to get too much is often counter productive). It is interesting that Brazil (Severin's home country) and Singapore are going with less taxes, not more (and both countries have very good growth rates and economies moving in the right direction). Just sayin.

Forgive me for this being off topic, but are Canadians starving? I have missed that.

"The senators….will outline their plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country."

Taxing foreigners? That's a bit like a failing restaurant owner having his waiters bring bills to diners in neighbouring restaurants because he needs the money to pay for all those solar-powered teapots on all those empty tables, and for all those backroom restaurant administrators, and…

Just about every post these days merits the title "The World Is Being Run By Crazy People."

Well, I don't know, but if Schumer is for it I would have to be against it.
,

Freedom Warrior:

I'm not sure I understand the problem.  He's already paid taxes on his income while in the U.S., as a resident of Singapore prior to renouncing his U.S. citizenship he had to continue to pay U.S. taxes on his out-of-country earnings, and he'll have a capital gains "exit tax" imposed upon him that assumes he's sold his entire portfolio of shares even if he hasn't liquidated a single one, so there's no way he gets out of the U.S. without coughing up at least another half-billion or so.

So what's the problem?  There's no way his simple residency in the U.S. was, in itself, worth over $500 million; neither was his education worth anywhere near that.  Your little hissy fit assumes that "the U.S." (as some weird form of organic entity) somehow gave him all his advantages, and he brought nothing to the table, as if he were some kind of random lottery winner.

He's not.  He's made his contributions (both to the government and, more importantly, to all the private sector companies that are now using FB as a platform to create their own wealth), he's going to be forced to make even more contributions to the U.S. Treasury, and he's still otherwise a free human being, so get over it.

The Catholics are right — envy really is one of the seven deadly sins.

Freedom Warrior (12:27): Your comment is an all too common example of resentfulness and envy combined with economic illiteracy, all dressed up in "everybody knows" pseudo-logic.

"America gave him a huge head start in the world…"

You are attributing such "head starts" to the apparently magic properties of the word "America" rather than to the free enterprise system that historically generated the wealth that allowed for the advantages in the first place. The (historically) recent advent of a suicidally indebted spending-machine government, the increasing intrusions of which you obviously support, is going to seriously curb the ability of other individuals to succeed, i.e. to generate the wealth that pays for for your particular definition of "head start" - i.e. state-funded head starts.

"…and he wants every last dime, rather than give something back."

It's reasonable to assume that by the time Savarin leaves he will have "given back" through taxes a thousand times - or ten thousand times - more to the US than you've ever "given back" to Canada, so what are you complaining about?

"He'll 'visit' from Singapore, continue to enjoy America, use its airports, its highways…"

Are tourists who travel to America, where they spend money on hotels, shops, restaurants, transportation, VAT on purchases, etc, etc., "using" American infrastructure without "giving anything back"?

If Savarin visits America he'll be spending money that wouldn't be spent in America if he didn't visit, no?

"He will get ($4b), more than any reasonable human being will ever need or could ever spend…"

Says who? If someone wanted to use his own money -- as opposed to the taxpayers' money -- to create a tech or manufacturing company (for example) that will hire tens of thousands of people (all of whom will pay federal, state, and local income tax, btw), maybe $4b isn't enough.

The amount of money that someone else "needs" isn't determined by the amount of money that you need in your day-to-day life.

PatrickB "Canada levies such a tax already, I believe. If you renounce CDN citizenship and residency CRA levies a 30% tax on your Canadian assets before you can take them out of the country."

In Canada citizenship is irrelevant. If you cease residing in Canada, you have to dispose of all assets at fair market value and pay capital gains tax. That is if your name isn't Bronfman.

The hilarious irony is the Liberal left crying about patriotism and patriotic duty to pay tax’s when it’s they who have been spitting in the face of "American Patriotism" for the last 4 decades!

Burn the flag, open the borders, tear up the Constitution, and it's "hey by the way where the hell are you going"?

You wanted globalization, open borders, and the death of American patriotism, you got it.

I take it none of you people use roads, rely on food inspectors to make sure you don't get salmonella, visit a hospital, believe we should have armed forces, cash an old age pension cheque, flush a toilet connected to a sewer, expect the cops and firefighters to arrive when you call them? I know very few of you ever went to school, and those who did were not exactly stellar students.
Of course he benefited from America. And America exists, in part, because over the years people have paid taxes to build bridges, roads, libraries, financed research -- including the Internet and computer technology, that were under-written by taxpayers through the Department of Defence, etc.

And, Knight99, it's the right that's pushed for economic globalization and free-trade deals that have been bad for Canada. And it was George W. Bush who wanted to open the border to Mexicans to drive down US pay rates.

Freedom Warrior >

Ha ha, now America has one less rich guy to help pay for all those things, or have a company(s) to hire people to create jobs and pay taxes as well.

There will be more, allot more wealth fleeing what’s left of the US in the near future.

Afraid it doesn’t really grow on trees, and Obamba can only borrow and print for so long. Buy a gun and some ammo, these wealthy people will need to be entertained on their flat screen TV’s while sipping pina coladas while you defend your life from looters on the international news broadcasts.

FW you still don't get it, please change your name you are no friend of freedom you are a status quo sheeple.

P.S> food inspectors do not stop anyone from getting sammy if they did there wouldn't be sammy poison cases every year. Food inspectors make work and red tape for their own benefit and existence justification. There are sewers all over the world not just in the USA, I am sure he has paid taxes on the properties where he flushed, be it a work place her owned or rented, a home he owned or rented or hotel room. We all pay for the privileged of being fleeced.

So "Freedom Warrior" (irony meters explode, film at 11) did Severin pay local, state and federal taxes when he was using those services? Bet he did.

Further, as long as various governments hold the monopoly on providing those services, then NOBODY should feel obligated towards government for using them.

Let the free market take care of roads, health and hospitals. It'll do a much better job, and we won't have any finger waggers like mmf...freedom...BWAA HAA HAAA I just can't stand it! FREEDOM WARRIOR trying to make us feel guilty for not appreciating the milk that drains from the government teat.

Freedom Warrior wrote:

I know very few of you ever went to school, and those who did were not exactly stellar students.

Insults are always the refuge of those without actual arguments.  No one in the above replies to you stated that he didn't benefit from being in the U.S., but the U.S. has benefited much more from him than from the average U.S. citizen, and will continue to do so even as he exits.  He's paid his dues, and then some.

I have no idea of your educational attainments, but it appears that basic economic and financial literacy were two accomplishments that you did not avail yourself of.  Your arguments are simply non sequiturs.  Even if they did apply, are you seriously arguing that a man who's already paid millions in taxes and will have a tax bill north of $500 million somehow still owes the U.S. for his use of roads, food inspectors, hospitals, armed forces, old age pensions (!), sewers, cops and firefighters?  REALLY?  I'm pretty sure you could devote the remainder of your natural life to nothing but the pursuit of using all of these services and not get anywhere close to half a bill.

He's paid his dues, and the dues of hundreds of thousands of others as well.  Build a bridge and get over it.

Freedom Warrior >

George W. Bush was not "right" any more than Obamba is "left".

These are paid puppets of the Liberal Progressive global elitists. Nothing more.

But like Obamba commands, you can blame it on Bush all you wish, honestly doesn’t mean a damned thing to me. I have property in a couple of countries including residency in Singapore and a current passport at all times.

FW: "I know very few of you ever went to school, and those who did were not exactly stellar students."

What you feel (I won't dignify your position with "think") and what you know are two different things. But since you stated that you know this, please prove it.

Knight 99,
Hello
"I'd put the Liberal constitution destroyers, open border advocates, and welfare ghetto creators at a higher level on the ingrate scale."

Frankly, I think we could agree to the term saboteurs for the progressive left as it stands in America today.

As to Singapore they call it authoritarian capitalism. It runs pretty close to corporate fascism and is indeed a nanny state.

Prostitution is legal with the exception of the under 18's which I figured a squirrel like Severin
might encounter.

He still has his right to departure, and for all we know Facebook stock could fail. Government Motors put out a nice hit piece suggesting that advertising there was not paying off for them.

Renouncing citizenship as a tax dodge is un-American. Frankly I'd like to see data showing the percentage of defectors who were 1st generation Americans.
But this reaction demonstrates that our nation is governed by leftist goons who have no regard for the concept of freedom. The only good outcome is the exposure of this retaliatory snake.

....I'm sorta for it...if it means finally getting the borders sealed

I say we hunt him down and take all his money....

(kidding!)

Yesterday, in the comments on the post about rising electrical rates due to government interference, I mentioned that utility companies wouldn't dare put the blame where it belonged (on the government) for fear of retaliation by politicians.

I didn't imagine I'd get such an excellent example of that particular kind of tyranny so quickly.

The next step, of course, is putting up a wall around the country - topped with barbed wire, peppered with landmines - patrolled by armed soldiers with orders to arrest or shoot anyone trying to escape on sight.

...hmm, isn't there some other country that did that? I can't quite remember...

FW:

Per capita debt in the US is three times higher than it is in Canada.

As Ralph Klein used to say, it's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.

freedom warrior - I, like kathryn, would like you to substantiate your statement that: "I know very few of you ever went to school, and those who did were not exactly stellar students."

Prove it. Otherwise, we must all acknowledge that you have no intelligent argument and have resorted to personal insults. So, which is it?

As well, your red herring of 'taxes' go to food inspectors and flush toilets is irrelevant. What you are ignoring is WHERE ELSE the taxes go - and you haven't told us about your support for these taxes.
Do you support the massive public bureaucracy, with its bloated wages, benefits and pensions?

Do you support the entitlement population, with its insistence that housing, food, clothing, education etc, are a 'human right' and as such, must be 'free', which is to say, paid by others.

Do you support the fact that almost 50% of the US population pay no taxes? Do you recommend denying them the use of the roads, airports, food inspects and so on? Tell us about your support of their use of these services.

Do you support the use, by illegals who pay no taxes, of public schools and hospitals? As well as those roads and so on?

And now, do you have any basic understanding of the function of wealth or money, apart from taxes? Do you?

Do you know a thing about Investment funding and Production funding? Well? Where does the money come from for these two basic economic actions? Tell us, FW, about this.

Oh, and remember, tell us, each one of us, about our education. Tell us what you know.

infinity - I'm going to disagree with you about your declaration that 'renouncing citizenship as a tax dodge is Un-American'.

After all, that is exactly what led to the US Declaration of Independence. They renounced their British citizenship because Britain was taxing America without their permission.

What we have here is a situation where the US business taxes (corporate and capital) are removing wealth from the private sector and thus, depleting the economy of its capacity for Investment and Production.

The government, after all, operates only within the mode of Consumption. The money it gets from taxes is distributed for consumer use: buying food, medical care, housing - and common uses such as roads. Government money does not make more wealth; it consumes wealth and thus must keep taxing.

We live in a global economy. To have one nation grab the Investment and Production wealth, for its use only in the short-term action of Consumption, means that Investment and Production processes can't be carried out. Whether they are done in the US or elsewhere in the globe isn't relevant (after all, where would the US be without the wealth production in China?).

IF the US govt would not have such high business and corporte taxes, then, wealth-producers Invest their money in US industrial production. But, the high taxes prevents this Investment.

When you see countries bring in capital controls, like these Senators are doing, you know there is trouble on the horizon.

South Africa did the same thing to try and stop the whites from leaving.

Spain is contemplating a move in that direction, although I feel it is probably to late to help them.

I'm being pedantic but that was un-British of us. The difference is we left and revolted against a monarchy to form a democratic republic.

My focus is on patriotic duty and yours is on free market capitalism. So here is where I say cart, horse.

Other than that I completely agree.

ET:

Slavery Lover clearly didn't watch the little video posted a few days back that showed that US government could cut all discretionary spending - military, courts, FBI, FDA, etc., etc., etc., - to ZERO, and still not be able to balance their budget because of all the people demanding welfare, SS, and Medicare.

He's clearly another loud-mouthed braying troll who knows nothing about economics or politics, but drives by on occasion to leave a smear, and then skedaddles without ever making an argument or a cogent response.

I, for one, am going to treat him from now on like I do "new" or "ok" or "phil" - I'm not going to respond because he doesn't engage in a conversation; he just spouts off and leaves. Better off without him.