O, Sweet Saint Of San Andreas

Uh huh. Wait for the food poisoning outbreak, as people re-use their cloth bags without washing them. Oh, and by the way, washing the bags uses lots of resources (energy, water) too. Heck, MAKING the cloth bags uses lots of energy.

And aren't most of the plastic bags nowadays biodegradable?

Idiots.

My observation is these "bag banners" are un-american....americans say "sack" like they say soda instead of pop....

Soccermom at May 24, 2012 10:45 AM
"And aren't most of the plastic bags nowadays biodegradable?"

Not likely in Californica....the ususal suspects have banned biodegradable plastic because it goes against their policy of recycling...as if for example folks recycle garbage bags.

Yeah idiots.

Problem solved, BYOB:

http://www.interplas.com/retail-bags/MBFLAT%20TOP

Boycott Los Angeles.

Stupidity is contagious.

Have to practice safe shopping.

LA is Behind the Times and at least they can still get paper bags (Which are far worse for the environment when it comes to production energy costs. Fort McMurray has had this ban in place for a year and half and It's not limited to just supermarkets. Try buying a handful of hardware from Rona and not getting a bag if it. Makes shopping very convenient and Shoplifting that much easier.

This whacko idea was floated in Lethbridge. I calculated that the entire city uses about ½ a semi trailer of plastic bags each year...maybe. Compared to all that nasty plastic on our cars and computers and toothbrushes and .. well, damn near everything.

What pisses me off so much is how little this will change the use of plastic. There is so much paper and plastic in a grocery store considering the plethora of packaging for most products.

They gonna ask for a ban on plastic bags for bread next? Bulk meats without styro trays and protective wrap?

And just how the hell are the folks down at the Blood Reserve gonna defile their "sacred" lands without plastic bags. JOKE! ☺ (Sort of...) See here:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/ocl5/garbage6019.jpg

This bad ban is just "feel good" stoopid, eco-weenie nonsense. Bah.

I wanna know WTF the ecos are gonna do about this !#!%!#@!$ Global Warming here in Alberta! 3°C in Lethbridge and zero and snowing in the hills.

Wandering around downtown LA for the past couple of days makes one think the city would be more concerned with finding tenants for all that empty retail and commercial space

Hard to go on a decent power trip unless you can force another law onto people or shut down another industry or two. The problem with plastic bags is already covered under littering laws and only needs to be enforced. Bags can be recycled and have a range of other uses. The overwhelming urge to make new laws by these professional busybodies is a far greater problem to society than plastic bags.

It's a micromanagement illness of the Liberal rich.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus wants to be a benevolent master for her maids and gardeners, but they do soil her aesthetically pleasing view of the California coastline with their Liberal ghetto’s and plastic bags.

Time to do the re-shelving shuffle.

"No bags? Oh, well then, forget it. Bye."

So, it's a ban for the SUPERMARKETS? Doesn't say I can't bring my own plastic bags (which I usually recycle anyway). Maybe I can set up a plastic bag concession outside the store...a nickel a piece.

Tyler
(Which are far worse for the environment when it comes to production energy costs.
************************************

BULL. Ever been to a paper making plant. We have one in Everett WA. They use what is left-over from making wood for homes. Most of it is saw dust. Paper bags require little energy cost and brake down in a dump.
PS, don't give me the line we use up forest to make these bags.

I have a better idea. Let's all go back to the pre '50's when the grocer would just cut a wedge of cheese out of a wheel sitting open on the counter, when crackers and other similar products just came in large barrels and you scooped out the amount you wanted and weighed it on the spot or the Middle Ages when milk would be sold by a vendor with an open jug and you'd bring your own container.

I predict a future fashion trend, clothing with large bin like pockets so that you can carry your groceries out of the supermarket.

I'm working on a shopping cart with a pindle hitch on the front, roll up tarp and tail lights on the back. You can hook it up to your Smart Car.

I think I'll call it The Smart Cart. Does anybody know a good California patent agent?

Ah well, I support the ban on plastic bags, or at the very least, a charge (of 5 cents) as is done in Toronto.

People have adapted, and at least 70% bring their own cloth bags. Easily washable in your weekly or monthly laundry. Or there are heavy duty plastic bags which are meant to function as durable repeat use carry-all bags.

It cuts down the endless blowing all over the place thin bags that litter the gardens, get caught in trees and cars and bicycle wheels etc. That's what I have against those bags - the litter.

Sure, we still use a lot of plastic in food containers, pharmacy products, hardware goods but it doesn't make any sense to declare that either we cut all plastic container and bag use or nothing. We can reduce the excess use and our parks and gardens, our rivers and roadsides, will look a lot better without that litter.

No worries they will just sell more plastic bags in India and China.

It's hard to describe the ugly mess of plastic bags and garbage laying everywhere in those open sewer countries. I'm surprised the Liberal left doesn’t embrace the mess as some sort of cultural enrichment to copy.

It’s either a rich Liberal elitist’s fetish, to not want to be like the little people, or the poor Lefty granolas really are that culturally retarded. Most probably a little of both.

The resources used in producing, washing and rewashing one of those 'multi-use' germ spreaders would make thousands of 'single use' thin plastic grocery bags that are themselves reuseable as garbage bags, boot liners, storage bags, lunch carriers, cat litter disposal units, dog doo picker-uppers and many, many more uses...granted, usually only one more use after taking them home, but sometimes two...lunch bag then garbage bag for the leftover noncompostable bits... 'green' doesn't always mean better.

I fully agree with one thing though...the problem isn't with the plastic bags...many if not most of them are 'quick decompose' now...it's with the twits littering..and most of those are the liebral favourites....

Check around the net for before and after pictures of 'occupy' sites or moonbat demonstrations and then the before and after pictures of TEA party or Conservative rallies and see which one leaves the area better than they found it...here's a hint, it ain't the goreans.

Clive at May 24, 2012 11:30 AM says it all - this is a big blather fest that will have absolutely no impact except to make shopping a hassle.

A ban on pampers/packaging/plastic construction would have an impact.

Ah well, I support the ban on plastic bags, or at the very least, a charge (of 5 cents) as is done in Toronto.

People have adapted, and at least 70% bring their own cloth bags. Easily washable in your weekly or monthly laundry. Or there are heavy duty plastic bags which are meant to function as durable repeat use carry-all bags.

It cuts down the endless blowing all over the place thin bags that litter the gardens, get caught in trees and cars and bicycle wheels etc. That's what I have against those bags - the litter.

Sure, we still use a lot of plastic in food containers, pharmacy products, hardware goods but it doesn't make any sense to declare that either we cut all plastic container and bag use or nothing. We can reduce the excess use and our parks and gardens, our rivers and roadsides, will look a lot better without that litter.

Where do you people live that there are all of these bags flying all over the place?

Here in Ohio we dispose of those things properly. Most people reuse them for regular trash, poop patrol, etc first. They are recyclable and biodegradable. They are 10x more environmentally efficient than paper.

Idiots have been sold a pig in a poke. There is no evidence that the "environment" will be better as a result.

Dustoff....

Please research before you call me out

Plastic uses far less energy 71%, water 6% and produce less waste 500%. See attached link

http://www.biotech-products.net/documents/The%20Plastic%20Bag%20vs%20Paper%20Bag.pdf

Anyways your missing my point, which was these decisions are not based on Science and Research but on Feelings, because if it was based on Science they would ban Paper before Plastic (Too Clarify Again, I'm Against them Banning Either).

I am not for bag bans in anyway, I'm very against it and have sent my concerns and studies to the Mayor of Fort McMurray multiple times stating this with no success yet.

Here is another Study for Plastic vs. Reusable Cotton. You would need to use a Cotton Bag 327 times (From Experience I'm Lucky to get 50 uses before a Handle Rips, Gets a Hole) to make up for the green house gases produced the bag. That does not include the energy washing the bags and the water treatment of the water used to wash the bags etc.

http://savetheplasticbag.com/UploadedFiles/STPB%20British%20Report%20summary.pdf

You can mock this new law, but I live in LA, and have to put up with this stupidity. Be forewarned, the PC police--IQ less than 0 -- are on their way to your homes, next.

(yeah, I'm fighting this, and will not be passive...but you still have to pick your battles)

Lou I feel your pain, looks like you will at least get bags at retail stores i.e. Wal-Mart Home Depot or the Mall. That was the worst part. It is easy to plan on bringing reusable bags to grocery stores but it was a pain to carry around bags when going to the Mall.

When I visit my Parents in Calgary the highlight of my trip is loading my suitcase full of plastic bags so I don't have to buy bags for my garbage bins at home.

Ban plastic grocery bags and I'd imagine the sale of kitchen sized garbage bags will skyrocket.

Tyler - surely the highlight of your visit with your parents isn't their donation of all their garbage bags.

As for the greenhouse emissions in production of plastic bags vs cloth, that's not the point. What bothers me is the litter of these bags. They are not reusable in sufficient ratio to their original handouts - and they litter parks, roadsides, highways and local ponds and rivers.

We taxpayers spend a fortune (and I'm sure there's greenhouse gas costs in there somewhere!)in cleanup services in all these areas. I'm all in favour of bringing your own cloth and heavy duty plastic bags to market.

Interesting but I notice two main sets of people who don't bring their own bags; the very poor, who continue to use plastic bags, and the urban downtown latte crowd who wouldn't be caught with something as pedestrian and suburban as their own cloth bag.

Obviously I was over exaggerating the comment about visiting my parents.

And I disagree with your comment on the Urban Latte Crowd not using bags. Maybe where you live that's the case. From my experience in places were there aren't bag bans (Calgary and Edmonton) the Latte crowd are typically the ones that use the re usable bags probably they are making a difference and Saving the world from the "Harmful" greenhouse Gases. Plus you'd be very hard pressed to find any of those people living in Fort McMurray.

http://www.savetheplasticbag.com/ReadContent715.aspx

The argument for using reusable bags to prevent litter is off base. That's in similar context of banning guns because they are used in crimes.

Plastic Bags don't Litter, People Litter.

Sorry Posted Wrong Link in last post.

The point I'm getting at is the reason they are banning plastic bags is to "Save the World from Harmful Green House Gases" but in reality and from research and the use of Science they are actually doing more harm then good. Which is probably preaching to the choir on this blog.

http://www.savetheplasticbag.com/UploadedFiles/Effect%20of%20banning%20plastic%20bags%20in%20California.pdf

Somewhat off topic. Anyone still shop at Loblaws (Superstore, Real Canadian Wholesale, etc) with the mandatory 5 cent donation to WWF for every plastic bag you use?

I emailed suggesting they carry two sets of bags, the alternate set raising money for local food banks as I am opposed to supporting WWF. Eventually received a reply thanking me, but no serious consideration of changing things. I rarely shop there now.

Tyler - that's incredibly astute: 'bags don't litter, people litter'.

But, correctly parsed, acknowledging the factual reality of what is an agential Subject and what is a passive Object, it is:
People litter with plastic bags.

Now, the question is, what ought to be done about people littering with plastic bags? I think it is easier to litter with these bags than it is with your own cloth or heavy duty bag. So, decrease the use of plastic bags.

Plus, the plastic bags in outdoor garbage bins are readily blown away, torn by raccoons, etc.

I personally don't get involved in the sanctimonious babble of greenhouse gases. I'm merely supporting the decreased use of plastic bags for one reason: litter.

"I'm merely supporting the decreased use of plastic bags for one reason: litter."

There's always a good and noble reason presented as to why everyone should do things the "right" way and why the guns of the state should be used to enforce it.

Plastic bags are on the same level as boorkhas.
Nothing at all to do with anything useful, just an
excuse for the sanctimonious indoctrination of
dullards and getting the socialist camel's nose
into the private enterprise tent.
.

Biodegrable plastic is opposed by the handwringers because they support reuse and recycling.....Who the hell ever recycled a garbage bag?

I recall back in the day when we had local dumps, visiting once a year while some folks went every saturday with 6-8 bags....

Spring cleanup (large items etc) is a treasure hunt...amazing what good stuff some throw away...

The Guns Don't Kill people, People Kill People statement which that statement was based of off, correctly parsed, acknowledging the factual reality of what is an agential Subject and what is a passive Object, is:

People Kill People with Guns.

The point I'm making is if we use that same logic in regards to gun control we should ban firearms.

I don't think banning anything is a solution to an issue it just transfers the issue.

No, Tyler, you can't legally, politically or morally equate two statements because they grammatically parse the same.

'People litter with plastic bags' is not logically equivalent to 'people kill with guns'.

That would be like saying that:
People write with pens; is equivalent to:
People kill with guns.

To ignore the meaning and focus only on the grammatical setup is illogical.

Now, can we get back to the very real problem of garbage and litter? The reality is that plastic, of all kinds, is a problem. You can see these bags and remnants of the bags in every park, vacant lot, river side bed, street. We spend a fortune on cleanup, using street and sidewalk vacuums, park clean ups etc. All I'm saying is that these plastic bags are cheap and thus readily ignored as functional, are readily trashed, and are a major pollutant to our parks and waterways.

We ought to use less of them.

So what do you suggest we replace plastic garbage bags with? That can't be littered

How are meanings not the same? People (commit crime) with (object). It is not plastic bags causing litter a much as it is not guns killing people it is the human element that is the issue not the object and banning either isn't going to solve the problem.

So what do you suggest we replace plastic garbage bags with? That can't be littered

How are meanings not the same? People (commit crime) with (object). It is not plastic bags causing litter a much as it is not guns killing people it is the human element that is the issue not the object and banning either isn't going to solve the problem.

Tyler - I've been suggesting that we reduce our use of plastic bags by using cloth or other heavy duty bag.

Plastic litters, both via humans throwing them casually away on the street, and via their blowing away from garbage sites.

You can't reduce all problems to human behaviour; you have to acknowledge the mechanical reality of the objects used by humans.

For example, humans make and drive cars; their exhaust fumes pollute. Are you going to set up a law against cars? Or, deal with the mechanical situation of better exhaust systems?

Humans print newspapers; the old ink smudged all over one's hands. Are you going to outlaw printing newspapers? Or, develop a better printing system?

Same with the need to carry goods. Are you going to develop a better system to do this?

Your Examples are exactly what I've been trying to say in the last few posts. Banning something is not a solution. But you were suggesting it was. (maybe you weren't but that's how I interpreted your statements)

I'm suggesting that banning/reducing the use of Plastic is not the answer to the issue of littering and Cloth bags are not a better system to carry goods and definitely not better for disposal purposes.

Right now with our current technology the best system for both carrying and disposing goods from an environmental/economic/energy conservation (Which is what the Hypocrites in LA/Fort Mac are trying to achieve) standpoint is Plastic Bags hands down and it's not even close when you look at the facts and crunch the numbers.

Yes, Litter Sucks I agree but banning plastic Bags is not going to stop people from littering.

From the comments:

"i hope california breaks off into the pacific while I'm still alive. and while everyone in california is sleeping."

you're catching-on kate

I always get a kick out of people who complain about plastic on the ground but are okay with thousands of acres covered with asphalt and concrete.

And then there are the social engineers like the resident sage who would ban plastic in certain forms...geeze, get a real, productive, job.