Uh Oh, Euro

The reporter is in error. This is not a barter economy, it's an alternate currency. And because it is not through the Greek government, it is untaxed. No one has any revenue in Euros. So it will simply make the Greek fiscal crisis worse as it spreads.

Greece's only answer is to leave the Euro and return to whatever is the natural level of the drachma. From the example of Volos, the country is doing it anyway.

Technically speaking, it's not a bartering system at all, but an alternative money system.  True barter always has the same problem — indivisibility of a good or service.  The "TEMs" in this system act like fungible, divisible exchange units; the big problem here is negotiating what a "TEM" is actually worth, but the people in this clip seem to be doing it reasonably well...

Sounds like a plan.
Of course the little German towns that lent them money previously probably don't feel as magnanimous.

What, no tangible Euros in the hands of politicians to pay for the next gay pride parade, the next public servant's pension, the next global warming conference in Rio ...
The horror; the humanity!

A natural free market. It'll work great until government decides it wants a cut of every transaction.

When the European mandrins get wind of this they'll start putting pressure on the gov't to shut it down, after all we can't allow people to make their own decisions or live a life that is not under control of top down planning.

Belisarius, you hit the nail on the head. How can the Greek government tax this alternative currency? The government will move soon to crush this system.

Yep, that smells too much like real freedom and the Euro bond holders will see to it that it is crushed like a steamroller over freshly laid asphalt.

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”

"The only export Greece has is hard working Greek people!"
SNL skit.

For barter to rise, the state will have to whither. It won't do that willingly. Barter and or alternative (underground) currencies don't pay the pension cheques of the entitled nor the salaries of the police. The Jackboots are just around the corner. Spain is implementing currency controls and limits on cash transactions as we speak, as capital (and 50% unemployed) youth are fleeing.

Underground economy is the only way to go these days...ummm not that I would know where to find the underground economy, nor would I participate in one should I know, I's a good sheeples yes umms i is massa.

Those Greeks have been listening to Ron Paul speeches!

Bartering means you have to produce something of value. That don't sound like socialism to me!

As others have noted, this will only make the situation worse and I believe it's only a matter of time before the police move in to shut it down.
More riots and backlash on the horizon.

Agreed. It is much more a currency than a barter system. What is fooling the reporter is that while it looks like barter, there is a central computer application monitoring the trades. Out of the blue wealth is created. The initiative of free market libertarian solutions to the Euro/Greek crisis makes this new method of storing value and trading all the more delightful.

Ah yes, the joys of the underground economy. It works just fine until the sewers back up, the water mains break, the roads crumble into gravel, the police and firemen quit...

Fools. Do some of you actually imagine you can run a society without paying taxes for at least some basic level of municipal and national government services? Taxes have been the unavoidable price of civilization since Sargon. And to the bright fellow who lauded Ron Paul, kindly show me in any of his statements where he said paying no taxes was the way to go.

Hans, you prate of "real freedom". I think Thomas Hobbes had a much better idea of what your "real freedom" was like than you do.

cgh:

The key phrase in your post being ‘some basic level of municipal and government service.'

I would agree with that premise. The problem lies in where the control freaks take it beyond the basic level of service and enrich themselves in the process.

"They that are discontented under monarchy call it tyranny, and they that are displeased with aristocracy call it oligarchy; so also, they which find themselves grieved under a democracy call it anarchy."
~Thomas Hobbes

"In a democracy, the whole assembly cannot fail unless the multitude that are to be governed fail."
~Thomas Hobbes

@cgh: In this case, the citizens have recognized that the 'mulititude that are to be governed failed'.

Other than the gathering of olives and grapes, Greece has become a financial basket case. These regular folk recognize when the institution of government has FAILED.

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”

cgh at April 19, 2012 1:41 PM

Fools. Do some of you actually imagine you can run a society without paying taxes for at least some basic level of municipal and national government services? Taxes have been the unavoidable price of civilization since Sargon. And to the bright fellow who lauded Ron Paul, kindly show me in any of his statements where he said paying no taxes was the way to go.
------------------------------------------------

But when most of the taxes collected are payed to a corrupt cabal of international banker,what is left for infastructure?
Ireland's government will be hitting the Irish people very soon with much higher property taxes and much higher water rates. The international bankers have a high risk gambling problem and the citizens are forced to cover the bad bets. IT will be comming to the US very soon.

If I didn't know better I would have thought the idiot narrating this feel good piece was from the CBC. Dillusional people grasping at straws. Question the level of government services but realize that someone has to pay for them. The free ride mentality still appears to be kicking.

This not a solution but part of the problem...

The Greeks' economy institutionally/traditionaly is underground. An underground economy is by definition invisible/untaxable. The resulting lack of tax revenue is made worse by raising tax rates.

Then there is the bloated bureaucracy and insane pension liabilities....

A perfect storm....

This'll all work out great... until the German Panzers show up looking for an interest payment.

The logical alternative to too much government is not -no- government.

@ Phantom
The Germans have Leopard tanks now. They even sold a couple hundred to Greece. Any bets they will be re-possessed ?

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

That's NOT barter. That is the creation of a new currency. You keep credits in your bank account in the computer.

It used to be that currencies were not a government monopoly.

Phantom, as a libetarian, I say that government is a necessary evil. There are certain things it must do, such as keeping the barbarians at bay; other than that, the less it does, the less is done expensively, inefficently and corruptly.

Take away the cookie jar from politicians.

I love this, sure it seems like so much "feel-good" fluff. But it also shows that the economy is a bottom up process and all the regulations, international obligations and social planning from the top won't change that.

Peterj, they still call 'em Panzer.

Robert of Ottawa, you're singing my song. Thing about this Greek town doing an end-run around their government, it'd be fine... except that they took the free government money when it was offered. All of them did. Now the bill has come, and they're going to get creative about dodging it instead of paying it.

I predict this effort will end badly. As it -always- does in the history books.

I'm missing the "Socialism is the answer" part in this story.

I mean these people do indeed appear to look like their equally poor, but not as poor as many others in the country appear to be. Also what about all that fantastic Socialist taxation? Aren’t these people sort of dodging the tax man that they love so much?

In fact this story hasn’t convinced me at all that Socialism is that great regardless of how much fun they dress it up to be.

@ The Phantom at April 19, 2012 10:28 PM
" Peterj, they still call 'em Panzer. "

Only in Germany? Serious question since we bought Leoparts as Canada's main battle tank. Do our forces call them Panzers too ?

The Phantom said, "Peterj, they still call 'em Panzer." That would be in Germany, in the English speaking world this type of military vehicle is called a tank.

Aside from that topic, Phantom is right in saying this will not end well, no matter which way it goes. The bills will ultimately be payed, and as you suggest, the history books are full of bad endings.

cgh is right about taxation needed to support a basic level of governmental services, but as Greece's example shows many western countries have gone way beyond this and have become corrupt bureaucratic feudal fiefdoms.

One weakness of this new TEM currency is that the entire operation is done on computers.

Whenever a private currency is stored entirely in a computer, it attracts all sorts of criminals that try to hack in and steal the currency. (Google 'Bitcoin' to see what I mean.)

The fact that this is a local currency probably mitigates that. But in this digital age, no widespread means of payment is viable without Fort Knox-grade digital security. (And "viable" means it's able to keep its losses low, not that the security is impregnable. No computer is completely secure these days.)

@ Ken (Kulak) at April 20, 2012 12:09 AM
"in the English speaking world this type of military vehicle is called a tank."

Ok...now you've hurt my feelings. Since I'm a white anglo saxon and employed , I am a minority and the HRC will accept my claim for hurt feelings. If they don't then I will be 1 tenth native with homosexual tendencies that has to sit when I pee cause sometimes I feel like a woman, who had someone look at me funny once 'cause I had a tan and they thought I was black and ate dogs.......and try again. I will also tell them of the time a friend of my black brothers relative heard that you tried to draw a picture of Mohamed and it looked too Christian to dismiss the fact that you were inciting hatred against peace loving Muslims.
So....do I get a apology or ruin your life at no cost to me with the full weight of those legal eagles at HRC behind me. The trauma your answer caused me should be worth at least a hundred grand, but I'll settle for the answer. Do we call our tanks Panzers or Leopards ?

Just had a friend return from a holiday in Nova Scotia. Apparently the 'cash' economy is going strong as ever. Deal in cash and collect UIC for months on end. How different is that from Greece?

@ Ken(Kulag)
I dropped the lawsuit 'cause everybody is right and my honor is still intact.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/tanks-for-the-lesson-leopards-too-for-canada-03208/#canada-tank-choices-2a6-2a4

The solution to the Greek problem is the path that Iceland followed. Tell the predatory bankers to get lost, forget about the banks debt and carry on with running a real economy.

It worked well for Iceland. Their economy is doing better than any Euro country. The real bonus is they have been throwing the bankers in jail as well!

Yea, but wouldn't that start a stampede ?Portugal, Italy, Ireland,etc. I mean ,they would be doing to us what Wall street did to them. The IMF would be very upset.