The Talk: Nonblack Version

Lowry is a punk. I cancelled my subscription tonight.

I don't agree with Lowry but on the bright side, at least Phil Griffin, head of MSNBC, will now have the green light to fire Al Sharpton, Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, Mika Brzezinski, Dylan Ratigan, ....

Oh wait, he won't.

National review and especially NRO has become very weird in the last couple of years. I expect Mark Steyn won't last much longer there either, though it's an open question of whether he'll leave or they'll get rid of him.

Lowry is a major douche, that's for sure. A man of character would at least provide a substantial rebuttal, not just get the vapors and faint like a Victorian woman.

Well, I am confused.

I get it that all the lefty rags are going on about "The Talk". That black fathers must teach their kids to drive defensive in white society.

In response to the underlying assumption that white society is completely racist, John Derbyshire writes his piece. As Robert W said in the prev tread:
Perhaps his over-the-top piece was purely designed to point out the rampant double-standard in place in Western Culture today

Honestly, I just don't get that from Derb's piece. I can sorta see it, after some pointed it out. But not at all from my 1st reading.

Shorter Rich Lowry:

"Derb's been writing like this for years, and we all bragged about what a genius we had working for us -- until Other People noticed and gave us 24 hours of grief, so now we're dumping him."

"Derb's been writing like this for years..."

Exactly. This is what I don't get.

Even Shorter Rich Lowry: "...but this is different!"

Rich Lowry appears to be the kind of man I'd deliver my resignation to by backhanding him. Then he'd cry.

esr offers 'An intelligence test'.
.

Have you people seen the "Treyvon" coverage, BTW? I watched about an hour of BET over a week ago (I almost never watch TV, so it's always a bit of a shock). The segment was called, IIRC, "Shoot First" (if it wasn't that it was in that vein). The indignant testimonials about how to bear up in life against the incessant malevolent frame-up attempts of perfidious honkey were interspersed with hip hop videos featuring tattooed, grilled dudes who would have most black people damn scared, let alone whites and asians. There is a severe disconnect from reality going on in American black culture. And if I was conspiracy minded I'd wonder why the media and the President are trying to instigate race riots.

PC can be hard, just like math!!

Derb is heavy on quantifiable facts.

NRO has embarrassed itself again.

Black Mamba said: "And if I was conspiracy minded I'd wonder why the media and the President are trying to instigate race riots."

What are you kidding me? Have you seen the cover of People magazine this month? Little innocent eight year old Traaaayvon smiling into the camera.

No conspiracy theory required, the national media and the White House are trying to re-create Black Day In July for May this year. Pulling out all the stops and flat out going for it.

Punks in Florida this week are pulling people out of cars and putting them in hospital. Imagine what's going to happen when Zimmerman walks out of that hearing a free man.

Here's two links to "The Talk" articles, which like most people I hadn't seen until after I read Derbyshire's piece:

Boston Globe

LA Times

If Lincoln could have had a peek into the future he might have considered reloading the slave ships and sending them back as a better idea. I wish our politicians in Canada could peek into the future and see what Muslim immigration will do to this country. A quick look at Britain and Europe in general should give them a clue even today. Of course, like most politicians, they are clueless.

Racism used to mean something. Hatred for a fellow because of the color of his skin or religion or even where he came from (you Southern accented Americans know what I'm talking about). Racist behavior was pretty clear cut too. Definite harm done to someone else because of the color of his skin like beatings or ... losing a job. Today, the word racism has been moulded into a weapon to be used by some black leaders in America against, well, basically everyone. Racism is a living for some people. Derbyshire spoke an opinion, one that is easy to disagree with on many points because it is so subjective. Because they are in such great fear of the weapon of racism being used against them NRO fired Derbyshire even though his work for them was not the cause of discontent. Instead of using the opportunity to talk about subjective opinion and how it colors our culture, they reacted with little thought and a lot of fear. All the vitriol from both sides of the fence makes me wonder if Derb struck a nerve. I suspect he did and that's his real sin. He's no more a racist than the old, blind codger that fusses at everyone to get off his newly planted lawn. For a few moments though I suspect he made a lot of people of all colors feel shame. And indeed there is plenty of shame to go around. People treat people badly. People often treat those who make them feel shame badly too. Too bad for Derb and his mixed race family. Is there really any other "race" than the human race? Is it really important to make the distinction? In the end if these things are to be discussed, they won't be discussed except as a matter of reaction by groups like NRO.

Shoot the messenger.

I was able to finally get the website to work. The article is dead on. I have made one race mistake in my life and it was driving down Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd in St. Louis Missouri. I almost did not get out alive.

Phantom - so, you're suggesting that gangs of neo-nazis are not actually preparing to go on an ultraviolence spree in Florida?

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/sanford-fl-police-deny-any-indication-of-neo-nazis-patrolling/

Rich Lowry, enforcing the discussion "No Go" area double standard.

I take it Derbyshire isn't black?

Got something to say Frederick?

No offence, but 80% of blogonuts will automatically skip over such solid blocks of rhetoric (like I did).

Helpful Tip: Paragraphs/spaces R Ur friend!

Oh Gawd! White spaces...I didn't mean it, like in 'racist', or anything...

Black Mamba said: "- so, you're suggesting that gangs of neo-nazis are not actually preparing to go on an ultraviolence spree in Florida?"

No, I think they are planning exactly that, except they're -black- neo-nazis. Have you seen the New Black Panthers in their cute uniforms? Everything screams 1936 except the colour, they went with black instead of brown...

There are probably as many as fifteen or twenty actual white neo-nazis in Florida, most of them likely over 80 and getting kinda slow for "patrolling".

We could juxtapose further:
1. http://www.salon.com/2001/10/02/blue_101/
2. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/220676/laffaire-coulter/jonah-goldberg

Cheers

I very much encourage you all to listen to this rant from Adam Carolla on the #1 problem with Black Culture in America. It was said well before Derbyshire's piece was published but it's VERY connected with what a lot of the [most excellent] comments are saying about political correctness and Black violence.

Quick, guess what colour the tourist and the crowd were!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126736/Shocking-video-tourist-getting-beaten-crowd-bystanders-laughs-Baltimore-St-Patricks-Day-parade.html

I am truly concerned for the Current American race relations. I fully expect some form of large scale riot to break out and snow ball into serious chaos. Between Trayvon, Obama and everything else stuffed into a horrible economy with everyone hurting and mad and scared.

What happens when Zimmerman is eventually charged and found not guilty? Or not charged?

What happens when Obama is not reelected? Or is Reelected?

Right now, All it needs to explode is one idiot in Florida to say the wrong thing to the wrong guy. I don't want my neighbours house to explode.

This a is a litmus test. If you denounce Derbyshire, or misrepresent what he said, you are off my reading list.

Why can't we say the obvious. Blacks kill people way out of proportion to their numbers in the US.

"52.2% of the offenders were Black, 45.8% were White, and 2% were Other Races."

12.5% of the population, commits 52% of the murders.

And yet for weeks the media has blamed "white hispanics" (by which they mean white people) for some sort of racist killing spree.

NRO and a bunch of others are now just lefty pieces of shit.

I wanted to call Lowry a gutless coward but i couldn't get to the comments. Then i noticed there were no comments yet. Guess they don't want to know what people think. Kinda funny given that they survive off of what people think of them...

Black Mamba >

Yes it does indeed look like the self described National Socialist Movement (aka Neo-Nazi’s) are on high alert:

“Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement “We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says.”

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php

Lookey at what Obamba’s whipped up now, and these guys aren’t even Hispanic as they clearly mention in the article, just wait until La Raza sobers up.

@ Frederick O Stevens at April 7, 2012 10:59 PM
"Is it really important to make the distinction?"

Not on a individual basis. When the social engineers intervene with things like affirmative action or human rights groups try to force political correctness and how we should think, or you are given special status because of what happened in the past , or even your sex, then the notion we are all equal starts to fall apart. For every person given a government sanctioned free hand to the front of the line, someone else has to be held back. The ones getting the help feel entitled and the ones held back but paying for this reverse discrimination with their tax dollars see it as unfair . As any mother with a large family could tell you, if you don't treat all your children the same, you are begging for trouble somewhere down the road. The most important lesson Government should learn. How we treat each other is based on merit and individual comfort zones. That is probably self regulating. Government can not change that no matter how much social engineering they try to force on the public.

Obama is the reason for the escalation. Remember "Obama's gonna pay my mortgage" and "Obama's gonna buy my gas"? Blacks were told in 2008 that, if Obama was elected, it would be "their turn". Moreover, inciting racial division is a campaign strategy: see "If I had a son he would look just like Trayvon" and all he good work done by the race hustlers Jackson, Sharpton et al..

nick, you're right, Obama and the race hustlers GAIN by inciting hatred and violence. Obama used and is still using Trayvon Martin for campaign purposes. Racial division along with class warfare are weapons he can use to hold onto his voter base.

@ nick at April 8, 2012 1:06 AM

Agree. Neither of these names would be in this game without the race card.

Derbyshire and Steyn are the only writers I ever bother to read at NRO.

I wonder how much longer Steyn will be there?

Derb is heavy on quantifiable facts.

He never quantified his 'facts'. Not once.

Derby's column is openly racist and largely unfounded. He got what he deserved.

Speaking of no go areas, my son (190 lbs and no wimp) lives in Houston. There are parts of town where, if he must drive through at night, he does NOT stop for red lights. If there is cross-traffic, he adjusts his speed to reach the intersection when there is a break. Since getting T-boned is a potentially undesireable outcome, the best bet is to avoid those districts even if it adds a few extra miles to a trip.

knight99@12:18

miaminewtimes is a giveaway tabloid mainly devoted to escort ads and lonely-hearts ads. They have zero credibility. Now it's quite possible that they called some wanna-be Nazi on the phone and got a load of bloviation. That's what they do, after all.

But the guy at Legal Insurrection actually called the Sanford police, who reported no Nazi sightings. Zero, zilch, nada.

In LA there are exits in th I-5 that are closed at night because they lead to black neighborhoods.

As of this morning NRO is off my reading list too. I wrote Lowry to deplore his cowardice.

If you don't like the argument, deal with the argument. If you don't agree with the facts he adduced, let's hear your data.

But in attacking Derbyshire's alleged 'racism', Lowry sounds more like a raving leftist than an intelligent commentator of any sort.

Sad.

I think Lowry is trying not to hand Obama a campaign issue.

I too will no longer be visiting NRO.

Y'all are just now realizing what NRO is? I found that out quite a few years ago, and have not been back there since. Ann Coulter at least USED TO BE decent, but has gone thoroughly downhill over the past several years. For her, I suspect it's something they're putting in the water down there. Not sure what explanation is for NRO. This may simply be what they ALWAYS have been.

WFB did the same thing with Joe Sobran, and there was never the outcry there is with Derbyshire, of course, Sobran was accused, and possibly guilty of - anti-Semitism. I think we're all a little too sensitive when it's our ox that is being gored. Derbyshire won't be wanting for employment for long.

Racism and bigotry in western culture is rooted in liberalism. Call it "white guilt", multiculturalism, entitlement, or elitism, it's a fundamental defining characteristic for the liberal. You are not liberal unless you are fundamentally racist, bigoted, else, the whole meme of multiculturalism would be but a minor reality.

There are conservative racists and bigots too, of course, but conservative racism seems more rooted in simple individual ignorance and acquired peer culture, rather than a systemic worldview as it appears to be with the left.

Conservatives grow out of their racism and bigotry mostly, with education, some success in life, and by embracing the faith-based ancestory that is still a core value (even if they don't outwardly display it). Liberals don't seem to - theire racism grows with education, they embrace it as a tool, as if its somehow able to give them status, and distinguish them from others. They actually define themselves by their distnction of race and culture. The worst racists and bigots that I know, are liberals.

In the US, its the democratic left that continually pushes the race card, not the right. Even the worst of the Tea Party rallies were not as bad as what comes out of the mouths of Jackson, Sharpton and Obama.

CTV did live coverage last night of the driveby shootings in Tulsa last night. The screen crawler constantly alleged that "African-Americans were [specifically] targeted. In none of the companion interviews with Tulsa law enforcement was any suggestion made by Tulsa police that this was a race targeted event. It may turn out that it was, but jumping to the assumption is irresponsible journalism.

Like MSNBC, CTV is jumping the shark, and inflaming the rhetoric, without proper substance. Its not a coincidence that these two news organizations are overwhelmingly liberal. Liberaism is a mental disorder, and they continue to increasingly demonstrate it day by day.

Yes, there are neighborhoods here in Texas that you just don't go into after dark if you are Caucasian. It is something you learn very quickly on your own.

For me, when I was a teenager, I made the mistake of going south from the Cotton Bowl in Dallas after a game one time. Yes, you get to the point where you didn't stop at stop lights, because of the feral looks you would get from the blacks on the street corner.

It is like that in the south valley in Albuquerque, NM as well, but it is the Hispanics there who will cut you for trespassing on their "turf".

Hey, is there some kind of trick to get to the Taki website or something.
All I get is "

Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage "

Can you help?

LAS said: "Derby's column is openly racist and largely unfounded. He got what he deserved."

Usually in Phoenix AZ you can tell where not to go at night by rolling down the car window and listening for gun shots. Normally one does not have to listen for very long before hearing [pop-pop-pop] off in the distance. Then you just drive -away- from that sound. That's what I used to do when I first moved there, because I didn't know which parts were safe in the dark.

Then there are these things called "crime maps" and "census maps". The crime map shows annual murders/robberies/assaults by location, usually with a red dot. The census map shows percentage of what race in any given zip code. You can draw a pretty sharp line around the "predominantly non-white" zip codes, often down to a single street. "White" on one side, "other" on the other side.

Quick look shows little forest fires of red dots in a sea of no dots. These are not in "white" neighborhoods, even though there are some pretty scuzzy looking "white" neighborhoods in the older parts of town. And again, the red dots often stop on one side of a single street. The "other" side.

That's all easily checked on the Interwebs, no need to take anybody's word for it. Just google "Phoenix Crime Map" and see what you get.

So, what parts of Derbyshire's column do -you- think he deserves to lose his job over? He's in chemo by the way, just so you know. Needs the money to pay the hospital, not to put a new pool in the back yard.

This piece at American Thinker by Rick Moran best sums up my own views on this sad affair;

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/04/should_john_derbyshire_be_fired_for_being_an_insensitive_lout.html

Texas >

I made the mistake of going downtown Houston after hours once. Once the yuppies commute home after work and they roll down the steel store front protectors, it’s becomes like an “Escape from NY” movie scene.

Mobs of poor and angry looking blacks hanging out on every corner mostly hustling, and a police car parked every block or two.

Go east a little and you are in gang bang'n Latino-Ville, less cops and just as you said, you drive strait trough the red lights. If not they pick their butts up off their heals while crouched against buildings and come at your car in groups.

People who say there are no “No-Go” zones for whites in NA are full of sh!t.

Why does Moran think Derbyshire is an insensitive lout?

The who point of political correctness is to shut white people up and let non-whites say the most vile and disgusting things about people not in their ethnic group/race/gender.

And this attack of Derbyshire just proves which side you are on.

Free Speech or Hate Speech

Derbyshire or Sharpton/Jackson/Obama.

My Dad immigrated to Canada from Africa; my mother is white. I consider myself simply Canadian. My ancestry does not make my perspective any more valid than anyone else's here, but it does perhaps make it a bit different.

I regret the length. I found no way to make it shorter within the time constraints I had. Happy Easter to all Christians.

Long time lurker who rarely posts here, but does regularly read. I agree with much of what's been said above, and in particular I think Derbyshire's firing was shameful and cowardly, especially the passive aggressive bit on Lowry's part of "constitutes a kind of letter of resignation".

I found Derb's column quite offensive. (And yeah, being offended is fine; doesn't remotely mean I think Derb should be chased from the public square; it was an honest effort from a sincere and decent man).

I'll bet, though, most people here can't figure out what I found offensive.

The "black people in a group are dangerous"? [my paraphrase, not Derb's exact words] Nope. Not offensive. Have you been paying attention? This is sadly and shamefully true. Mobs of black people can just as racist, ignorant, evil and vicious as any group of lynching klansmen.

The "no black Fields Medal winners"? Well, it's kind of depressing, but true. Not offensive. As with violence, above, I do note that no less a luminary than Ann Coulter has suggested that most or all of the social pathologies in the black community could be down to single motherhood. Certainly some are. On IQ, there's also the Flynn effect which suggests it's much more malleable over time than we would have suspected, suggesting there isn't some horrific difference between the "races" if 1990's blacks are the same IQ as 1940's whites. Do you think your father or grandfather is an unsuitable idiot? (Strike that if you're an ivy league legacy, of course you do).

School discipline, criminal convictions, blacks more likely? Nope, not offensive, just a matter of fact. Political corruption? I think Derb may be wrong there; I don't believe black politicians are worse than any other group that views itself as disadvantaged and struggling -- see 19th century Irish pols, 20th century Italian pols for example. But I can't be offended by Derb saying that when I look at that idiot black congressman asking if Guam will tip over due to the deployment of 8000 US Marines.

The "small cohort of blacks [that] ... is ferociously hostile to whites". Yeah, not offensive, and guess what, they are just as hostile to blacks that "act white". If not more so. Horrific.

No, the really offensive bit (though I disagree with some of the rest of what Derb writes) is sections 13-15 where Derb descends to pure (though quite rational) opinion. His discussion of "intelligent and well-socialized blacks" (IWSB's as he abbreviates it).

And here, my views are identical with those of Clarence Thomas. (as on some other things, though I'm considerably more libertarian than he). Affirmative action, in this day and age (and perhaps any) is disgusting. Racism to help the disadvantaged is wrong. It's particularly pernicious in the case of someone such as myself or Barack Obama who had no more ancestral experience of slavery than the average white person.

So the governmental preference for IWSB's as Derb objectifies us (yeah you detect a bit of offense there) is wrong. (For the record, I leave racial bits on forms blank, or check Other and write in Canadian, or sometimes, if capricious, "human"). On the one occasion a bureaucrat pursued me to demand my race (at a university no less), I told her "What do you think I am? I decline to state". I wish I'd had more money, or I'd have given her a book on Nazi race analysis.

But Good God. On this Easter Sunday no less, I read of Derbyshire advocating seeking out IWSB's as an "amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice".

Were I a crazed lefty post-modern deconstructionist I'd dryly note the subtext of amulet -- witchdoctor. Oops, I just did. Sorry. I'll try to refrain from that kind of thing. Derb is an honest and sincere man; unlike Democrats, dogwhistle racism is not for him. Still, "amulet" does rub me the wrong way.

No, the idea that non-blacks should (and should have to!) seek out IWSB's (I assume, I qualify, living in a white neighbourhood, with a non-black wife, grad school, and a successful businessman, though not, sadly, a Fields Medal winner).

That whole model and objectification of a group of human beings is pretty depressing. I don't despise Derb for setting it out, not at all. I think he's being honest and sincere. I think if we're ever going to have an honest conversation on race (assuming such a thing is even desirable), then exactly that kind of candor and sincerity is needed.

But... depressingly, his column had me wondering about my white friends. And I don't normally think of them that way. I just think of them as friends.

But yeah... am I in the role of the brilliantly named "Token" of South Park in their lives?

Do they think of me as "a friend" or as a "black friend", an "amulet" against career destruction?

Am I a luxury good?

If so, I'm a pretty crappy one. Sure, I listened to Run-DMC as a little kid, much to my Dad's dismay, but I (like my Dad) preferred Rachmaninoff. I was a Bach guy, not a hip-hop guy. Heck, I liked ancient old-school semi-metal Rush 2112, a great libertarian anthem. And though I'm not big on country music, I do think Johnny Cash was magnificent. [I'd say marvelous, but a) that sounds a bit gay (in a good way), and b) President Obama has just helpfully informed America that marvelous is a word not often heard].

I hate to say it, but sitting here reading this column of Mr. Derbyshire's [distancing!], I'm kind of feeling warmer to my Asian friends than my white friends. There is no way an Asian [note to British readers: here, Asian means Chinese/Japanese, maybe Korean or Vietnamese, it does not mean Muslim] is going to have a friend with African ancestry unless he is genuinely a friend.

Asians can be gloriously racist and xenophobic. They are direct and honest.

And they don't look for "IWSB's".

Enough said from me.

Respect for Kate's amazing photos and rapier wit.

Holmwood