The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) office is getting an “indefinite delivery” of an “indefinite quantity” of .40 caliber ammunition from defense contractor ATK.
U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over five years, according to a press release on the deal.
Related – THEY TOLD ME IF I VOTED FOR JOHN MCCAIN, THEY’D BE SHUTTING DOWN RESEARCH IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY. And they were right!
When you’re shooting targets in a ‘sensitive’ environment you need to be good at hitting your target.
If you have 450 million rounds, you can do a lot of target practice.
By the way if you say 450m rounds you have specified a quantity and it is no longer ‘indefinite’, even if the delivery is.
This is no problem just wait until after Obama’s last election to see what they’re for.
I wonder how long defensive ammo will remain on shelves after this bit of news hits the firearm community in force.
Thank god most people stocked up on or after Jan 2009, it’s not going to get cheaper that’s for sure.
One of the articles commenter’s asks – “Why does “homeland” security, a domestic agency, need 450 MILLION rounds?”
LOL, answer: obviously they know something that everyone else doesn’t, and it involves hollow point ammunition, not the cheaper regulation ball ammo used for target practice the world over.
Knight99 makes some interesting observations.
“You’ll just have to pass the legislation to find out what’s in it!”
450m rounds can buy one a lot of flexibility.
At my local gun store you could get 500 rds of American Eagle 55 gr 5.56 ball ammo for 135 dollars. a week ago the same thing was up to 200 dollars. Stock up while you have the chance. Its a better investment than your RRSP.
Somebody of our persuasion did the math….
There are approximately 800,000 police, state and local in the US….about half of which would shoot Maobama on sight…..the other half would immediately go into hiding because they are outnumbered 200/1.
If one of us figured it out…you can see why DHS is tooling up.
Regular and guard units are loyal to the constitution not politicians.
NBP and others are a minority in a minority….unreliable….looters at the first opportunity.
Must be those “Moozelums” behind all of this.
OK, tinfoil hats are not needed here. I recall reading the US military has stockpiles of 4 billion rounds of 5.56mm, ie the M-16 stuff. This is not as crazy an amount as you might think. Proper practice could easily consume thousands of rounds per year per shooter. By the way, I didn’t see how long the contract is. 450m over 1 year or 10 is a big difference.
Obama needs to be defeated with the facts which as we know are already pretty bad. Whispering about black helicopters only makes you seem crazy to the bulk of voters.
TJ >
What black helicopters? There is a difference with asking questions of your government and accepting whatever they say as fact and it has nothing to do with “tin foil hats”. In fact it’s the last defense for those that like to bury their heads in the sand.
The point put forward was why does Homeland Security need all that expensive hollow point ammunition when ball ammo is much cheaper practice ammo for the taxpayer.
It’s not like Border Agents can shoot drug dealers and other illegal border crossers. That criminal offense has already been made clear by arrests of border agent’s in recent years for doing just that. Who is homeland security (FEMA) at war with? They were shooting a few black rioters during Katrina, but they spent most of their time going door to door confiscating firearms from the white New Orleans population that made themselves comfortable with generators, water, and food supplies.
Therefore you’re analogy with the US military, an active fighting force in multiple foreign countries is sort of silly, as well as labeling anyone who asks questions of their government as a tin foil hat.
So what is the expected consumption per year?
What is the minimum # of rounds fired in practice to acquire proficiency? Is Homeland Security going to be sending any of this to other agencies? Who in the Federal government shoots .40 caliber?
Has Homeland Security explained why it needs delivery of up to 90 million rounds per year? It would be interesting to know how much the FBI consumes per year, as well as DEAfor comparison’s sake.
Agree with Knight 99; this Administration was responsible for the FAST and FURIOUS program, and deserves close oversight by the people. Informed voters are the backbone of democracy.
small c conservative>
Agreed 100%
It’s hard to get Obambas famous statement out of the head on issues like this “We cannot rely only on our military………We gotta have a civilian national security force, that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded” – BHO 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
When you couple that with the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) signed into law by Obamba on New Year’s Eve Dec 31 2011 and recently Executive Order 13603 the “Peacetime / War Preparation Martial Law Order” (NDRP) on Friday evening March 16 2012 – It would be irresponsible to not pay attention a little and ask a few questions.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/03/21/obama-signs-peacetime-war-preparation-martial-law-order-103922
Mocking other people who are paying attention to the words and actions of their leaders and then questioning them is unconscionable to say the least.
Maybe they’re trying to drive the price of ammo up so that the average American will be able to afford less. Why their preoccupation with the .223? A rather anemic round and really the only advantage it has over the .308 or 30-06 is that one can carry more ammunition into combat. The big question is who are homeland security planning on fighting?
Oh, please. DHS has over 200,000 employees. Over five years, that’s not much more than 400 rounds per person per year. OK, not all DHS employees carry a weapon, but 400-500 rounds a year is hardly a staggering amount, even for routine practice.
Sorry, but this is firmly in the TFH special edition of National Enquirer.
Tommy >
Ya missed the part asking why all the hollow point and not ball ammo for practice.
Also throwing numbers out like 200,000 is a red herring. It dosen’t matter if it was 200,000 or 2 million employees, it’s allot of HP ammo for peacekeeping civilian homelands or practice.
Tommy said: “Sorry, but this is firmly in the TFH special edition of National Enquirer.”
Most cops (American AND Canadian) range qualify -once- a year, a really comprehensive course of fire would not exceed 50 rounds. Three to four five round groups is the norm. Gun comes out of the holster once a year, that’s it. Lucky if they clean it at all in between. I’ve seen some pretty scary cop guns over the years, and some seriously crappy shooting by cops. I invariably shoot better than any cop at any range I go to, and I am nothing more than an interested amateur. Your average cop/agent/whatever can’t hit a barn from the inside.
So now you’re telling me DHS employees each getting 500 rounds worth of range time per year each is -nothing-? Doubt it. Its a considerably increased focus on training, is what it is. 500 rounds is ten years worth of training ammo in most departments.
By the way, Federal HST .40 caliber isn’t practice ammo. Its a variant on the Winchester Black Talon theme, bullets which expand reliably in soft tissue even if the hollow point gets filled up with material. And its -expensive-.
This isn’t for training. I’d say -somebody- thinks DHS people are going to be in a whole bunch of gun fights.
Gun fights with who, Tommy? Zombies? Werewolves?
Knight 99, I see great minds think alike. 😀
Phantom >
Ha ha spot on.
I also shoot with allot of cops at my local outdoor rifle/ pistol range, some good, many not.
The separate and crappy in-town indoor pistol range is only a block or so from the much higher tech RCMP range not open to the public. So it’s funny as hell when the really bad ones sneak over to “ours” occasionally so that they aren’t witnessed by the rest. (The mixing and BS is always good though, the way firearm owners/ public and the police should interact, not shooting and drilling in Stasi private clubs 24/7).