I am not convinced that Europeans, other than the British, have bought into the democracy stuff. Their solution to everything is to put the apparatchiks in charge. I really suspect that the Germans are happiest goose stepping and the rest like getting goose stepped on. Perhaps an organization like the EU that has so badly screwed up needs less power, not more.
This will be pitched to the various EU parliaments as, “Sign this or the EU collapses and NO we don’t have an alternate plan.”
Not that this plan has any details about how the financial crisis is going to be repaired or solved.
It’s pure fear mongering and the appeal will be to let the politicians of the various EU parliments off the hook, giving them a scapegoat who this treaty states cannot be held accountable when the collapse does come.
That’s why they’ll all sign or at least try to.
I doubt the man in the street will see it that way, they’ll still hold their politicians to blame…torches and pitchforks/lamp posts and piano wire etc.
Legal niceties won’t amount to a fart in a windstorm.
If this video is correct it should hardly be surprising. The EU should have broken apart when the constitution was rejected but the just soldiered on with Lisbon.
That said, did anyone else find the constant zooming in on text annoying?
Seems to me that a North American security perimiter is becoming an imperative…No?
syncrodox, it seems that securing the long Mexican border is a wash.
Well, the vaunted European freedoms and democracy didn’t last long, did they?
I can’t imagine why the German electorate would ever go along with this.
Attawapiscat writ large.
John Lewis; “I can’t imagine why the German electorate would ever go along with this.”
Brunhilde is toast and knows it. I think it is two years to scheduled elections.
True enough for now Oz and the next thread up goes into that in more detail..
“Attawapiscat writ large”..is an awesome assessment…
The European equivelant of circling the wagons for the last ditch stand against collapse. Wont work because not one of the affected countries will give up their sovereignty.
Dear EU member nation,
Carry out the following to regain your freedom:
1. Put me in charge.
2. When ESM asks for money, I’ll say “come and get it suckah!”
3. If anyone does that, take them hostage.
4. Negotiate release of hostages in exchange for release from treaty.
5. Failing that, air strikes on their facilities, continued until they cry uncle (if anyone is left to cry uncle).
6. Emphasize the value of sovereignty and thank me with beer.
7. I’ll go on to the next one that wants my assistance or settle down with one of your maidens that appreciates my act of heroism.
Tada. They are toothless without guns most looters are.
It’s George Soros’ dream come true.
Immunity from prosecution allows them to murder with impunity. The surrender monkeys in France will do little but will the Germans be so willing?
But remember, according to the media, Britain has now been “left behind” by the rest of the EU.
More appropriately as “left behind” as someone who missed the sailing of the Titanic.
When the ESM wants cash the member states must pay up within 7 days.
How they gonna do that? They’re all broke, can’t even borrow any more.
http://news.yahoo.com/next-financial-crisis-hellish-way-204303737.html
The next financial crisis will be hellish, and it’s on its way
“There is definitely going to be another financial crisis around the corner,” says hedge fund legend Mark Mobius, “because we haven’t solved any of the things that caused the previous crisis.”
We’re raising our alert status for the next financial crisis. We already raised it last week after spreads on U.S. credit default swaps started blowing out. We raised it again after seeing the remarks of Mr. Mobius, chief of the $50 billion emerging markets desk at Templeton Asset Management.
Speaking in Tokyo, he pointed to derivatives, the financial hairball of futures, options, and swaps in which nearly all the world’s major banks are tangled up.
Estimates on the amount of derivatives out there worldwide vary. An oft-heard estimate is $600 trillion. That squares with Mobius’ guess of 10 times the world’s annual GDP. “Are the derivatives regulated?” asks Mobius. “No. Are you still getting growth in derivatives? Yes.”
This is why you have an unlimited credit facility…ya need a ‘financial surf board’ to ride the tsunami. The trick is going to be how to ride the wave before it crests, ie determining the financial ‘inflection point’.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
ROTFLMAO – soviet economics wrapped in a contracual agreement instead of a demand from a goon putting a gun to your head and cleaning out your account – that part comes later. LOL
Merry Christmas Europe I hope Santa leaves you some rights.
The Progressive Liberal left utopia.
Capitalism simply put is… numerous entities scrapeing out a living each according to their skills and perception of what is in demand.
Joining forces and co-operating when they percieve a benefit; OR…. if no alliance possible, laying all on the line, letting their consumers/customers decide whose product works best.
Prices, quality, features then are molded to what the consumer will accept.
Beautiful, self-correcting system.
Survival of the fittest in a manner of speaking.
Mix in bureaucrats/congressmen/members of parliament/ etc, and well… you get the clusterphook you read about in Europe, and even the west today.
I was a civil servant for quite awhile…. ick.
I’d never go back.
Who is surprised by this?
Such a proposal is brought to you by the good folks whose forebears brought you socialism, fascism, nazism, and bred such wondrous thinkers and icons such as marx, engels, mussolini and hitler. Europeans are uncomfortable with self-governance and democracy; they would rather be ruled by despots, tyrants and faceless bureaucrats. That’s the EU, in principle: rule by unelected, faceless foreigners.
Europe is slowly circling the bowl, and just needs a good flush or two to finally disappear. Maybe only then might something useful emerge from the morass.
But not likely.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
And they will still be spending billions on Global Warming/Climate Change … they could get some of it back by suing Gor and Dr. Fruitfly ând others¸for their scam. Just think of the savings by not following these people who should be in jail for their fraud.
Even dictatorships don’t have this kind of power.
Nor do Kings or other powers. This is beyond belief.
A document that literally holds all people, except those who are part of said document, as just slaves.
This is a monster unsealed from its prison.
Hitler or Stalin, Mao & others of totalitarian ilk, would have been envious. At least he had to worry about a coup from an army or an uprising. This gives power to take any life, or mass slaughter to fulfill this obligation with no consequences.
No sovereignty or Law. No Parliament or Legislator is immune to these final solution dictates.
Its beyond even Big Brother.
I don’t understand what is wrong with allowing individual economies to fail. The inefficient industries and agriculture is already heavily subsidized. Letting the PIIGS go down because of their own mismanagement would reinvigorate the union. Bringing down Germany and France to save the PIIGS is stupid.
It gives intent but no names. Somewhere in the background of this story is a person grooming to be a world leader with more power than ever before in history. Who ? This kind of planning does not come out of thin air.
peterj
You got that right!
Many Europeans live much better than people in Canada or (probably) US— they have good salaries, free time, their cities are lovely and they can extensively travel . So it is not surprising that many people do not see their increasing national indebtedness and their loss of freedom. It is not surprising, because even in USA many people did not see their economic crisis and their own indebtedness. Even now some still do not see it and want more government spending.
On the other hand many people start to see it, in Europe and in USA, but politicians in US and national politicians in Europe look to their own interest first. Look at USA — in USA many people will still vote for Obama because they want more social spending or because conservatives can not present good candidate.
Coming back to the document — it will make EUSR (European Union of Socialist Republics)out of Europe – or worse , but I do not think that it will be ratified.
Is this ESM the one that Cameron refused to sign?
If so, he absolutely did the right thing.
Now he should go work on the police state that he’s PM of.
This is a terrible assessment of this situation. The Europeans were warned in the 90’s that you couldn’t have a EU currency without a fiscal union as well.. AKA make the EU a country. They didn’t listen, and now they are face with the reality of their socialist state failing because of it.
The ESM is going to sell BONDS on the open market. It’s already funded, this is an issue about oversight into each countries fiances by the ECB.
Austerity means socialism is dying and they are privatizing everything, which also means that socialism is dying. Europe is going to have to learn about enterprise if it wants to survive. This is nothing but a band aid, only work is going to heal the wound, the question is, does Europe have the work ethnic to get themselves out of this mess? Germany can, IDK if the rest can.
Now the real reason for disarming of European populations becomes obvious. In a society where sovereign citizens are all armed, the natural response to a blatant power grab of this nature would be the sudden appearance of politicians, crony capitalists and bankers hanging from lamp posts in every city in Europe. My suggestion to anyone who likes the idea of individual freedom, and has marketable skills, is to get out of Europe while the door is still open. Social “sciences” majors and “environmental studies” graduates can stay put and enjoy the society that they’ve created.
isnt this the same thing that happened with NAFTA under the CONSERVATIVE brian mulruin? why would Canuckistan sign to an agreement that the ‘Mercuns REGULARLY snub their nose at? Canadians have taken cases to the WTO *AND* the enforement body within NAFTA itself and STILL the ‘Mericans bring is state laws to impose duty on *our* goods in direct flagrant violation of the essence of the agreement!!!
google it.
“This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause…”
Just remember that NAFTA, was in theory a good idea. The real problem is, it wasn’t free trade, it was fair trade presented as free trade. If it was truly free trade, we wouldn’t be having the problems with NAFTA that we are having now.
I am convinced that the EU is the test case model that the UN has been trying to establish. You can see similar traits in the idiotic “climate change” fraud.
Europe has little time left…..it is about to sewer.
This isn’t just a European thing. The Obamacrats “Czar’s” are no different.
And do you think that it’s just a coincidence that your local government has an obsession with environmentalism?
This is a well organized coup by a certain sect of the super rich and the Bureaucratic Class, with its intent to strip you of your freedom to choose. They are going to attempt to “rule & regulate” you into a corner and then finish you off their.
This is Class Warfare pure and simple.
@ I should vote for who?
Brian Mulroney(who was a Progressive not a conservative) brought in the Free trade Agreement and signed NAFTA December 17, 1992.
NAFTA came into force on January 1, 1994.
Jean Chretien, elected Prime Minister with a majority government on November 4, 1993 (Liberal Party of Canada) campaigned on a promise to renegotiate or abrogate NAFTA but broke his promise and negotiated two supplemental agreements with the new US president.
The Canada/U.S. free trade idea orginated with Sir Wilfred Laurier(Liberal) who called it “Reciprocity” back in the day, called an early election to settle the issue, and was defeated by Robert Borden(Conservative), ending Laurier’s political career.
*Google It!*
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.
~Ronald Reagan
“Posted by: I should vote for who?
isnt this the same thing that happened with NAFTA under the CONSERVATIVE brian mulruin? why would Canuckistan sign to an agreement that the ‘Mercuns REGULARLY snub their nose at? Canadians have taken cases to the WTO *AND* the enforement body within NAFTA itself and STILL the ‘Mericans bring is state laws to impose duty on *our* goods in direct flagrant violation of the essence of the agreement!!!
google it.”
_______________________________
NO, again this is all about currency. This will not end trade among the European countries or any free trade agreements they have. This is ALL about saving the single current. Crazy eh?
_______________________________
” Posted by: Eli at December 20, 2011 8:19 AM
Just remember that NAFTA, was in theory a good idea. The real problem is, it wasn’t free trade, it was fair trade presented as free trade. If it was truly free trade, we wouldn’t be having the problems with NAFTA that we are having now.”
This is one of the most incorrect statements I have ever read. If you’re going to talk economics you need to read data, not garbage.
________________________________ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
U.S. goods imports from NAFTA totaled $506.1 billion in 2010, up 25.6% ($103 billion), from 2009, and up 184% from 1994, and up 235% from 1993.
____________________________________
What problems are you talking about. The fact that since the 90’s we have been one of the most prosperous nations on Earth because of austerity and free trade?
Get ready for the real Americanization of the world. Right now, in Tianjin China, they are building a replica NYC right down to the Rockefeller Center.
The good news is in all of this, the people win because business need happy, well fed, customs to keep profits going. All you have to do is take care of your family, and money; work hard, thanks GOD for everyday you get to live. Oh ya, don’t buy things you don’t need, and save up for things you really want, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of OUR labour.
“The Europeans were warned in the 90’s that you couldn’t have a EU currency without a fiscal union as well.. AKA make the EU a country. They didn’t listen..and now they are face with the reality of their socialist state failing because of it.”
Excuse me, what are you talking about? The reason EU is in trouble is different — one fiscal Brussels’s policy for the countries with different economies, aka what is good for Germany is good for Greece.
As for the “Austerity means socialism is dying ” — there is no real (fiscal) austerity in Europe and the socialism is not dying, in Brussels it is thriving.
****
“coup by a certain sect of the super rich and the Bureaucratic Class…….This is Class Warfare pure and simple”
You mean there is a bureaucratic class? Marx and Engels’ bourgeoisie as well as Lenin’s Class Warfare? And who intend to strip you [who is you, Blame Crash?] of your freedom?
“Get ready for the real Americanization of the world. Right now, in Tianjin China, they are building a replica NYC right down to the Rockefeller Centre”
And that is Americanization? Building a replica?
If it is then building the whole Austrian city in China must be an Europeization of the world?
(Chinese “tourists” went there, photographed everything. They even went inside under some pretext and photographed the interiors without owners’ agreement. )
correction:
..”They even went inside under some pretense” i/o pretext.
Sorry. ;-(
@ mhb
“Europe is slowly circling the bowl, and just needs a good flush or two to finally disappear. Maybe only then might something useful emerge from the morass”.
The only problem with this is that the flush or two will suck North America down too. Our housing and Wall street crash is what started the European mess in the first place as all banks are interconnected with investments and the stock markets are global. Europe bought one big load of Wall streets toxic assets and the loss of hundreds of billions dollars pulled the trigger on this whole mess. The reason we have such stock market jitters here is due to the uncertainty of what will happen in Europe. What happens there will have a BIG effect here and make the 08 recession look minor if they crash.
Ahamburger
It is funny that you say that “China very much loves the west, America in particular.”
In Shanghai nowadays people are asking “When there will be the war with the USA?” and “Do you think we will win it?”
In Shanghai people see posters glorifying war and Chinese People Army.
And flattery— flattery does not mean that someone loves the thing he/she imitates. Imitation usually means that someone wants to be better or as good as the person one imitates. It can also mean that imitator envies the person/culture/nation he imitates because he can not be yet as good as that person/nation. And envy is a brother of hate.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Money is the sincerest form of flattery.
Talk is cheap and China is the King of Krappy Knockoffs.
(zero respect for intellectual property and the most bigoted culture on the planet)
LOL, ok ella I guess you didn’t bother to read my threads. Look at the Chinese fishing village that is erupting, the riots in the factories, ect, ect… Just like the USA in the late 1800’s
I guess I should also ignore the success of YUM foods, Nike, McDonald’s, all of the high end luxury western brands that the Chinese people buy up, the western vehicles they love; and the fact that almost all high end Chinese luxury brands are owned by western companies.
The communist aka CPC don’t love freedom, the 1.3 billion citizens that live there do, you know, the ones that immigrate HERE for a better life, and have been for YEARS.
If someone in Shanghai is asking when the war will start, it’s only because they have been paid by the commies to ask that. The real question is.. Can China stave off a civil war? Their new mantra is happiness not GDP, they better get at it. Google, China 1989.
This is simply an attempt to return to the days of Kings and Emperors.
EUSSR blueprint by Barraso and van Rompey.
Totalitarians around the world will be soooooo jealous.
who would sign a document like that. it’s a license to rob Europe blind
The end of the Magna Carta and the re-imposition of rule by King.
how we got here . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOzR3UAyXao&feature=related
I am not convinced that Europeans, other than the British, have bought into the democracy stuff. Their solution to everything is to put the apparatchiks in charge. I really suspect that the Germans are happiest goose stepping and the rest like getting goose stepped on. Perhaps an organization like the EU that has so badly screwed up needs less power, not more.
This will be pitched to the various EU parliaments as, “Sign this or the EU collapses and NO we don’t have an alternate plan.”
Not that this plan has any details about how the financial crisis is going to be repaired or solved.
It’s pure fear mongering and the appeal will be to let the politicians of the various EU parliments off the hook, giving them a scapegoat who this treaty states cannot be held accountable when the collapse does come.
That’s why they’ll all sign or at least try to.
I doubt the man in the street will see it that way, they’ll still hold their politicians to blame…torches and pitchforks/lamp posts and piano wire etc.
Legal niceties won’t amount to a fart in a windstorm.
If this video is correct it should hardly be surprising. The EU should have broken apart when the constitution was rejected but the just soldiered on with Lisbon.
That said, did anyone else find the constant zooming in on text annoying?
Seems to me that a North American security perimiter is becoming an imperative…No?
syncrodox, it seems that securing the long Mexican border is a wash.
Well, the vaunted European freedoms and democracy didn’t last long, did they?
I can’t imagine why the German electorate would ever go along with this.
Attawapiscat writ large.
John Lewis; “I can’t imagine why the German electorate would ever go along with this.”
Brunhilde is toast and knows it. I think it is two years to scheduled elections.
True enough for now Oz and the next thread up goes into that in more detail..
“Attawapiscat writ large”..is an awesome assessment…
The European equivelant of circling the wagons for the last ditch stand against collapse. Wont work because not one of the affected countries will give up their sovereignty.
Dear EU member nation,
Carry out the following to regain your freedom:
1. Put me in charge.
2. When ESM asks for money, I’ll say “come and get it suckah!”
3. If anyone does that, take them hostage.
4. Negotiate release of hostages in exchange for release from treaty.
5. Failing that, air strikes on their facilities, continued until they cry uncle (if anyone is left to cry uncle).
6. Emphasize the value of sovereignty and thank me with beer.
7. I’ll go on to the next one that wants my assistance or settle down with one of your maidens that appreciates my act of heroism.
Tada. They are toothless without guns most looters are.
It’s George Soros’ dream come true.
Immunity from prosecution allows them to murder with impunity. The surrender monkeys in France will do little but will the Germans be so willing?
But remember, according to the media, Britain has now been “left behind” by the rest of the EU.
More appropriately as “left behind” as someone who missed the sailing of the Titanic.
When the ESM wants cash the member states must pay up within 7 days.
How they gonna do that? They’re all broke, can’t even borrow any more.
http://news.yahoo.com/next-financial-crisis-hellish-way-204303737.html
The next financial crisis will be hellish, and it’s on its way
“There is definitely going to be another financial crisis around the corner,” says hedge fund legend Mark Mobius, “because we haven’t solved any of the things that caused the previous crisis.”
We’re raising our alert status for the next financial crisis. We already raised it last week after spreads on U.S. credit default swaps started blowing out. We raised it again after seeing the remarks of Mr. Mobius, chief of the $50 billion emerging markets desk at Templeton Asset Management.
Speaking in Tokyo, he pointed to derivatives, the financial hairball of futures, options, and swaps in which nearly all the world’s major banks are tangled up.
Estimates on the amount of derivatives out there worldwide vary. An oft-heard estimate is $600 trillion. That squares with Mobius’ guess of 10 times the world’s annual GDP. “Are the derivatives regulated?” asks Mobius. “No. Are you still getting growth in derivatives? Yes.”
This is why you have an unlimited credit facility…ya need a ‘financial surf board’ to ride the tsunami. The trick is going to be how to ride the wave before it crests, ie determining the financial ‘inflection point’.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
ROTFLMAO – soviet economics wrapped in a contracual agreement instead of a demand from a goon putting a gun to your head and cleaning out your account – that part comes later. LOL
Merry Christmas Europe I hope Santa leaves you some rights.
The Progressive Liberal left utopia.
Capitalism simply put is… numerous entities scrapeing out a living each according to their skills and perception of what is in demand.
Joining forces and co-operating when they percieve a benefit; OR…. if no alliance possible, laying all on the line, letting their consumers/customers decide whose product works best.
Prices, quality, features then are molded to what the consumer will accept.
Beautiful, self-correcting system.
Survival of the fittest in a manner of speaking.
Mix in bureaucrats/congressmen/members of parliament/ etc, and well… you get the clusterphook you read about in Europe, and even the west today.
I was a civil servant for quite awhile…. ick.
I’d never go back.
Who is surprised by this?
Such a proposal is brought to you by the good folks whose forebears brought you socialism, fascism, nazism, and bred such wondrous thinkers and icons such as marx, engels, mussolini and hitler. Europeans are uncomfortable with self-governance and democracy; they would rather be ruled by despots, tyrants and faceless bureaucrats. That’s the EU, in principle: rule by unelected, faceless foreigners.
Europe is slowly circling the bowl, and just needs a good flush or two to finally disappear. Maybe only then might something useful emerge from the morass.
But not likely.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
And they will still be spending billions on Global Warming/Climate Change … they could get some of it back by suing Gor and Dr. Fruitfly ând others¸for their scam. Just think of the savings by not following these people who should be in jail for their fraud.
Even dictatorships don’t have this kind of power.
Nor do Kings or other powers. This is beyond belief.
A document that literally holds all people, except those who are part of said document, as just slaves.
This is a monster unsealed from its prison.
Hitler or Stalin, Mao & others of totalitarian ilk, would have been envious. At least he had to worry about a coup from an army or an uprising. This gives power to take any life, or mass slaughter to fulfill this obligation with no consequences.
No sovereignty or Law. No Parliament or Legislator is immune to these final solution dictates.
Its beyond even Big Brother.
I don’t understand what is wrong with allowing individual economies to fail. The inefficient industries and agriculture is already heavily subsidized. Letting the PIIGS go down because of their own mismanagement would reinvigorate the union. Bringing down Germany and France to save the PIIGS is stupid.
It gives intent but no names. Somewhere in the background of this story is a person grooming to be a world leader with more power than ever before in history. Who ? This kind of planning does not come out of thin air.
peterj
You got that right!
Many Europeans live much better than people in Canada or (probably) US— they have good salaries, free time, their cities are lovely and they can extensively travel . So it is not surprising that many people do not see their increasing national indebtedness and their loss of freedom. It is not surprising, because even in USA many people did not see their economic crisis and their own indebtedness. Even now some still do not see it and want more government spending.
On the other hand many people start to see it, in Europe and in USA, but politicians in US and national politicians in Europe look to their own interest first. Look at USA — in USA many people will still vote for Obama because they want more social spending or because conservatives can not present good candidate.
Coming back to the document — it will make EUSR (European Union of Socialist Republics)out of Europe – or worse , but I do not think that it will be ratified.
Is this ESM the one that Cameron refused to sign?
If so, he absolutely did the right thing.
Now he should go work on the police state that he’s PM of.
This is a terrible assessment of this situation. The Europeans were warned in the 90’s that you couldn’t have a EU currency without a fiscal union as well.. AKA make the EU a country. They didn’t listen, and now they are face with the reality of their socialist state failing because of it.
The ESM is going to sell BONDS on the open market. It’s already funded, this is an issue about oversight into each countries fiances by the ECB.
Austerity means socialism is dying and they are privatizing everything, which also means that socialism is dying. Europe is going to have to learn about enterprise if it wants to survive. This is nothing but a band aid, only work is going to heal the wound, the question is, does Europe have the work ethnic to get themselves out of this mess? Germany can, IDK if the rest can.
Now the real reason for disarming of European populations becomes obvious. In a society where sovereign citizens are all armed, the natural response to a blatant power grab of this nature would be the sudden appearance of politicians, crony capitalists and bankers hanging from lamp posts in every city in Europe. My suggestion to anyone who likes the idea of individual freedom, and has marketable skills, is to get out of Europe while the door is still open. Social “sciences” majors and “environmental studies” graduates can stay put and enjoy the society that they’ve created.
isnt this the same thing that happened with NAFTA under the CONSERVATIVE brian mulruin? why would Canuckistan sign to an agreement that the ‘Mercuns REGULARLY snub their nose at? Canadians have taken cases to the WTO *AND* the enforement body within NAFTA itself and STILL the ‘Mericans bring is state laws to impose duty on *our* goods in direct flagrant violation of the essence of the agreement!!!
google it.
“This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause…”
Just remember that NAFTA, was in theory a good idea. The real problem is, it wasn’t free trade, it was fair trade presented as free trade. If it was truly free trade, we wouldn’t be having the problems with NAFTA that we are having now.
I am convinced that the EU is the test case model that the UN has been trying to establish. You can see similar traits in the idiotic “climate change” fraud.
Europe has little time left…..it is about to sewer.
This isn’t just a European thing. The Obamacrats “Czar’s” are no different.
And do you think that it’s just a coincidence that your local government has an obsession with environmentalism?
This is a well organized coup by a certain sect of the super rich and the Bureaucratic Class, with its intent to strip you of your freedom to choose. They are going to attempt to “rule & regulate” you into a corner and then finish you off their.
This is Class Warfare pure and simple.
@ I should vote for who?
Brian Mulroney(who was a Progressive not a conservative) brought in the Free trade Agreement and signed NAFTA December 17, 1992.
NAFTA came into force on January 1, 1994.
Jean Chretien, elected Prime Minister with a majority government on November 4, 1993 (Liberal Party of Canada) campaigned on a promise to renegotiate or abrogate NAFTA but broke his promise and negotiated two supplemental agreements with the new US president.
The Canada/U.S. free trade idea orginated with Sir Wilfred Laurier(Liberal) who called it “Reciprocity” back in the day, called an early election to settle the issue, and was defeated by Robert Borden(Conservative), ending Laurier’s political career.
*Google It!*
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.
~Ronald Reagan
“Posted by: I should vote for who?
isnt this the same thing that happened with NAFTA under the CONSERVATIVE brian mulruin? why would Canuckistan sign to an agreement that the ‘Mercuns REGULARLY snub their nose at? Canadians have taken cases to the WTO *AND* the enforement body within NAFTA itself and STILL the ‘Mericans bring is state laws to impose duty on *our* goods in direct flagrant violation of the essence of the agreement!!!
google it.”
_______________________________
NO, again this is all about currency. This will not end trade among the European countries or any free trade agreements they have. This is ALL about saving the single current. Crazy eh?
_______________________________
” Posted by: Eli at December 20, 2011 8:19 AM
Just remember that NAFTA, was in theory a good idea. The real problem is, it wasn’t free trade, it was fair trade presented as free trade. If it was truly free trade, we wouldn’t be having the problems with NAFTA that we are having now.”
This is one of the most incorrect statements I have ever read. If you’re going to talk economics you need to read data, not garbage.
________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
U.S. goods imports from NAFTA totaled $506.1 billion in 2010, up 25.6% ($103 billion), from 2009, and up 184% from 1994, and up 235% from 1993.
____________________________________
What problems are you talking about. The fact that since the 90’s we have been one of the most prosperous nations on Earth because of austerity and free trade?
Get ready for the real Americanization of the world. Right now, in Tianjin China, they are building a replica NYC right down to the Rockefeller Center.
The good news is in all of this, the people win because business need happy, well fed, customs to keep profits going. All you have to do is take care of your family, and money; work hard, thanks GOD for everyday you get to live. Oh ya, don’t buy things you don’t need, and save up for things you really want, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of OUR labour.
“The Europeans were warned in the 90’s that you couldn’t have a EU currency without a fiscal union as well.. AKA make the EU a country. They didn’t listen..and now they are face with the reality of their socialist state failing because of it.”
Excuse me, what are you talking about? The reason EU is in trouble is different — one fiscal Brussels’s policy for the countries with different economies, aka what is good for Germany is good for Greece.
As for the “Austerity means socialism is dying ” — there is no real (fiscal) austerity in Europe and the socialism is not dying, in Brussels it is thriving.
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“coup by a certain sect of the super rich and the Bureaucratic Class…….This is Class Warfare pure and simple”
You mean there is a bureaucratic class? Marx and Engels’ bourgeoisie as well as Lenin’s Class Warfare? And who intend to strip you [who is you, Blame Crash?] of your freedom?
“Get ready for the real Americanization of the world. Right now, in Tianjin China, they are building a replica NYC right down to the Rockefeller Centre”
And that is Americanization? Building a replica?
If it is then building the whole Austrian city in China must be an Europeization of the world?
(Chinese “tourists” went there, photographed everything. They even went inside under some pretext and photographed the interiors without owners’ agreement. )
correction:
..”They even went inside under some pretense” i/o pretext.
Sorry. ;-(
@ mhb
“Europe is slowly circling the bowl, and just needs a good flush or two to finally disappear. Maybe only then might something useful emerge from the morass”.
The only problem with this is that the flush or two will suck North America down too. Our housing and Wall street crash is what started the European mess in the first place as all banks are interconnected with investments and the stock markets are global. Europe bought one big load of Wall streets toxic assets and the loss of hundreds of billions dollars pulled the trigger on this whole mess. The reason we have such stock market jitters here is due to the uncertainty of what will happen in Europe. What happens there will have a BIG effect here and make the 08 recession look minor if they crash.
Ella, it’s called Globalization, and it’s all part of the war for freedom; and yes China very much loves the west, America in particular. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I am on a finical board. Here are two threads of mine to read through, it’s a big topic…
http://notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=1370
http://notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=7838
Ahamburger
It is funny that you say that “China very much loves the west, America in particular.”
In Shanghai nowadays people are asking “When there will be the war with the USA?” and “Do you think we will win it?”
In Shanghai people see posters glorifying war and Chinese People Army.
And flattery— flattery does not mean that someone loves the thing he/she imitates. Imitation usually means that someone wants to be better or as good as the person one imitates. It can also mean that imitator envies the person/culture/nation he imitates because he can not be yet as good as that person/nation. And envy is a brother of hate.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Money is the sincerest form of flattery.
Talk is cheap and China is the King of Krappy Knockoffs.
(zero respect for intellectual property and the most bigoted culture on the planet)
LOL, ok ella I guess you didn’t bother to read my threads. Look at the Chinese fishing village that is erupting, the riots in the factories, ect, ect… Just like the USA in the late 1800’s
I guess I should also ignore the success of YUM foods, Nike, McDonald’s, all of the high end luxury western brands that the Chinese people buy up, the western vehicles they love; and the fact that almost all high end Chinese luxury brands are owned by western companies.
The communist aka CPC don’t love freedom, the 1.3 billion citizens that live there do, you know, the ones that immigrate HERE for a better life, and have been for YEARS.
If someone in Shanghai is asking when the war will start, it’s only because they have been paid by the commies to ask that. The real question is.. Can China stave off a civil war? Their new mantra is happiness not GDP, they better get at it. Google, China 1989.
This is simply an attempt to return to the days of Kings and Emperors.