We Don't Need No Stinking Giant Fans

This is a lesson from the U.S. about "Giant Stinking Fans", yet to be learned here in Canada and Ontario in particular.

I take issue with the term "post industrial junk"...the irony factor has to be worth something.

This is a lesson from the U.S. about "Giant Stinking Fans", yet to be learned here in Canada and Ontario in particular.

From a full read of the link our dopey politicians here in the U.S. are still pushing wind so 'the lesson' is 'yet to be learned here' as well.   That really sucks.
.

the prairies had their share of abandoned "wind-chargers" on farms when the elec grid came along.

didn't need a subsidy.

In 1987 the Kamaoa Wind Farm began operation with thirty-seven Mitsubishi 250 kW wind turbines with an operationally typical total peak output of 7.5 MW.[21] By 2006 the turbines at 18°59′33″N 155°40′5″W were falling into disrepair, and they were finally shut down on August 15, 2006. At the end of August 2006, components for a new set of wind turbines were transported to South Point. The Pakini Nui project consists of 14 General Electric wind turbines constructed at 18°58′20″N 155°41′21″W, about 1.5 miles (2.4 km) from the old Kamaoa wind farm. Completed in April 2007, Pakini Nui supplies up to 20.5 MW of power to the island electricity grid of Hawaii Electric Light Company.[22] The wind farm is operated by Tawhiri Power, LLC. It is the southern-most wind farm in the United States.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_Lae

Oh noes! They only worked for 19 years! And were replaced by newer models! Quelle Horreur!

It's very disturbing to me the kind of society that could be developing in Ontario if the Green Energy Act is allowed to continue. On one hand you have wealthy landowners and Corporations that are capable of putting up these windmills and solar panel arrays. They of course are expecting to receive their taxpayer subsidized payments for electricity that at times may not even be required. These subsidized payments are generated through forcibly taken taxes and inflated electricity rates which we are beholden to pay if we want to function in this 21st century world. We who don't have the resources to enter into these agreements have to pay those who can if we want to use their generated electricity.
It's bordering on being like a feudal system. It pits neighbour [ those who can generate the power] against neighbour [ those who have to pay the exhorbinant rates to those who generate the power]. If you want electricity? Pay ME !
It can't last. It won't last and there will be many p/o'd folks who bought into this McGuinty Menagerie. McGuinty should be held accountable to all those who pinned their hopes on this obviously false economy. However, I don't feel sorry for those who thought this magical windfall [pardon the pun] would last after the McGuinty administration is turfed from office either. Do you think the rest of us who are getting shafted wouldn't be paying attention?

McGuinty gov't cant't be given the boot quick enough

Alex There is a connection between Immelt and bambam. bambam gets money and Immelt gets contracts with large subsidies that taxpayers pay. Kinda a win-win-screwed type of deal ya think?
If GE were not getting subsidies the crap wouldn't be there at all.

Good thing Alex isn't liberal...or dogmatic...or lacking perspective... and he's conversant with wicki....

No amount of "connections" excuses this kind of dishonesty in reporting.

Alex Who owns the media? Mrs. bambam said they couldn't do it without the media. Her words not mine.

"Alex Who owns the media?"

Da Jews, of course. Duh!

It's a ridiculous question. Nobody owns the media, because "the media" is not one uniform entity. All claims to the contrary are pure conspiracy theories, regardless of what part of the political spectrum they come from.

Ignore the troll. It will go away if left unfed.

lol. I first started commenting on SDA back around 2007. I've had dimwits like you calling me a troll for years, and telling others to ignore me. I know that such phrases make you feel better about your own miserable life, but, honestly, I would have thought that 4 years would have been enough time for you to either come up with something better, or at least get tired of repeating the same nonsense over and over. If you have nothing intelligent to say, I'd suggest you keep quiet, and try to learn.

Colin The troll implodes rather quickly. He is accusing Mrs. bambam as part of a conspiracy.That is close to the truth but for the wrong reasons.

"Colin The troll implodes rather quickly. He is accusing Mrs. bambam as part of a conspiracy."

*facepalm*

Speedy, if you insist on smoking yourself retarded, at least refrain from commenting until you've sobered up, ok?

Don't feed the roll,people.
The only WIND power that is renewable is the crap the left/socialists keep spewing. Now. If we could harness that,then we might have a green source...ie....turn the eco-facists/leftards into energy...AND save the world by reducing its population of useful idiots! win-win

Oh. And 80% of the worlds wind power generation...which actually amounts to about 0.002% of the power generated by other means...in other words...another socialist scheme to suck the taxpayer dry.If the gubermint has to subsidsy it,it is guaranteed a failure.

If the gubermint has to subsidsy it,it is guaranteed a failure.

Yes, because all the government subsidies are going to end as soon as their ability to borrow ends.
All government revenues are falling as fast as their tax bases are dwindling.
The more governments raise taxes the more their tax bases are dwindling, they passed the point of diminishing returns around 2009 and the prospect of gains lay only in the area of reduced outlays because regulations prevent the creation of new wealth.

They used to live off of the wool they sheared from the sheep, but they are now skinning the sheep and though a sheep can be sheared over and over, it can be skinned only once.

Reality is very complicated for lieberals, govt. handouts cloud ones vision and the result is fools like Suzuki, Gore, Hansen, Mann and TaDa, Alex. Wind farms will provide great treasures of scrap copper and steel for years to come for farmers, as our power is continuously,,,efficient, and superbly generated by COAL, WATER, NUCLEAR, NAT GAS etc, hear that lefties, go suck a polar bears ....

I owned shares in GE. I sold them when they stopped making money. They got into the subsidy industry but when that happens the reason to exist ceases.
There are a lot of subsidy industries in the US and that is a big part of the problem.
Welfare for business is like welfare as a way of life for people. Never enough to satisfy and too much to work for the money.

I liked the part about Spain. 16 billion Euros in debt for windmills that don't work, and no one has the money to pay for it.

Awesome return on investment for the European taxpayer. Or should I say the German tax payer? They're the ones covering it all.

"lol. I first started commenting on SDA back around 2007. I've had dimwits like you calling me a troll for years, and telling others to ignore me. I know that such phrases make you feel better about your own miserable life, but, honestly, I would have thought that 4 years would have been enough time for you to either come up with something better, or at least get tired of repeating the same nonsense over and over. If you have nothing intelligent to say, I'd suggest you keep quiet, and try to learn.

Posted by: Alex at June 25, 2011 11:12 PM ".

Hmmm. After commenting for four years, and still leading a pathetic one-man-band, Hey, watch out for that billygoat!! He's gonna get you!

Stop trolling, lefty.

Well...there is one good thing that be can said about lefties/socialists/facists/commies...that is .....er...oh yeah...they are diminishing the worlds population...but notice they never diminish themselves? Know your enemy.

I have nothing against wind power. It does generate power, after all. My beef is with the subsidies, and government manipulation. If wind technology had been allowed to develop on its own, with no interference, I'm positive it would have been leaps and bounds ahead of its present state. Government control allowed the village idiot branch of science to dominate the research. Government funded research projects are a dumping ground for unemployable "scientists".

"Government funded research projects are a dumping ground for unemployable 'scientists'. "

True. That whole "NASA" thing was a HUGE failure. And it's not as if we're currently communicating on a network created by DARPA! Clearly government funded research is a complete waste.

This whole "renewable energy" fiasco has uncanny resemblances to China's great leap backwards in the 1960's. One of the harebrained schemes that was tried at that time was peasants smelting their own iron in their back yards. This was probably part of some decentralization scheme but was a disaster. There are economies of scale which is why only hobbyists will attempt such a project and the vast majority of iron is extracted in massive smelters which is really the only way of performing this process in an environmentally friendly manner.

Decentralized electricity is a great idea and wind and solar energy are economically feasible if someone lives 50 miles from the nearest power line. Even a few miles away is enough to make it economical given how much electrical utilities charge to run rural power lines. Right now running ones own portable generator, the most efficient and reliable means of generating decentralized electricity, costs about $0.75/KwH (the last time I did the calculation in a hardware store based on price of gasoline a few years ago). Nice to have in an emergency but I'd much rather pay $0.085/KwH which is what it currently costs me from BC Hydro. If I could get a decentralized power source which would provide me with electricity at a cost of $0.05/KwH or less, I'd be at the supplier tomorrow cash in hand. I like the idea of being off the grid as this insulates me to some degree from the next Carrington event, but it has to be cheaper than what I currently have.

With watermelons in power in BC, I may be installing my own natural gas powered generator soon if the costs of idiotic electrical generation systems are passed on to consumers. Wind energy simply makes no economic sense unless there is no other energy source available. We've got excellent hydroelectric power potential in BC (but the morons in Victoria don't consider these 'renewable"), nuclear power and lots of coal and natural gas. All of these are excellent means of producing electricity and have a long history during which they've been perfected. To subsidize bird-blenders is the height of idiocy and represents Western civilization's great leap backwards.

There's nothing wrong with micropower electronics and, for wearable computing, the lower the power consumption the easier it is to power it. This is where piezoelectric generators in ones shoes, vibration powered generators, etc could have a very important role. As someone who uses a lot of battery powered electronics, replacing batteries is a major headache and also limits the time I can have either ambulatory monitors run or remote monitors run. When it's possible to get CPU's that require microwatts of power to run in sleep mode, then a 1 Farad capacitor and a solar cell is an excellent option, or even a thermoelectric device. I've got an Ecofan on my wood stove which is an excellent bit of technology which moves around an amazing amount of air and generates power via the thermoelectric effect. To consider generation of the amount of power that the average home needs through such technologies is simply idiotic. When small LENR high power generators are available then this will likely replace centralized electrical generating facilities. Until one can improve on what we have it is the height of insanity to try with inappropriate technology. Hopefully the implosion of the "green job" economy in Europe will happen before the same mistakes are repeated in Canada.

Since all forms of Green Electricity require large dollar subsidies to be "viable" and the subsidies, in Ontario, are coming from General Revenues not directly from Hydro rate payers and since about 80% of Ontario General Revenues goes to fund two services - Free Healthcare and Free Education, the question is:

Should Dulton close Hospitals or Schools, or both to pay the required Hydro rate subsidies?

Hospitals?

Schools?

Since all forms of Green Electricity require large dollar subsidies to be "viable" and the subsidies, in Ontario, are coming from General Revenues not directly from Hydro rate payers and since about 80% of Ontario General Revenues goes to fund two services - Free Healthcare and Free Education, the question is:

Should Dulton close Hospitals or Schools, or both to pay the required Hydro rate subsidies?

Hospitals?

Schools?

I have often wondered why the wind farmers who quit the SCAM as soon as the hugh subsidities ended are not required to dismantle their junk?Try and close a redundant service station and just walk away and see how fast the green gobblers land on your back. This might make for a toe hold for rejecting wind farms in the future,if a clause is included that they dismantle and return the habitat to previous condition once no longer able to keep up the SCAM!

It's a little more complicated than that, Fred. Much of the subsidy comes through the way customer bills are structured. OPG has a very low rate it receives for its hydroelectric and nuclear production. It's rate of return is held to less than 8%. This means that a much higher rate can be applied for renewables, and all the customer sees is the blended rate.

Now this wasn't such a problem in the old Ontario Hydro days, because the utility's mandate was to provide power at the lowest achievable cost and it had no renewable mandate. After Harris kicked open the door by repealing the Power Corporation Act, the Liberals took full advantage with the renewable initiatives that could be stuffed in.

For me the critical fact is the need for government subsidies. If it's a great idea, why isn't it succeeding on its own? This is highlighted in Ontario where soon to be ex-premier mcguinty refuses to release details of his taxpayer funded tinker toy deal. Even a pathetic, wormy POS like alex can probably see the problem with that. (I'm amazingly optimist at times.)

"For me the critical fact is the need for government subsidies. If it's a great idea, why isn't it succeeding on its own?"

Yeah, I've always wondered that about the cops - if it's such a great idea to have them, why do they need government subsidization? Surely they could get all their funding through fines and 'baksheesh'?

"Even a pathetic, wormy POS like alex can probably see the problem with that."

I would think that even an abortion-bucket survivor such as yourself would understand that some things which we do as a society aren't meant to generate revenue, or are meant to become self-sustaining at a future date. It's really not a difficult concept. As long as you're pretending that this entire category does not exist, you can't hope to be taken seriously on the subject of government expenditure.

"Yeah, I've always wondered that about the cops - if it's such a great idea to have them..."

A truly moronic strawman argument if there ever was one.

Nobody objects to the idea of government-funded services, troll, except the scope of such services has ballooned far greater than what is needed and affordable by the taxpayer. Government funded military, police/fire services? Yes. Government schools, government healthcare, government energy production/distribution... no. Any of the above have been screwed up by the government, as due to its bureaucracy and unions, must be definition be less efficient than the private sector.

And btw, alex - although DARPA had set up Darpanet as a research/military venture to facilitate communications in event of a nuclear holocaust, it was the private sector that made it viable as the internet we know today.

mhb23re

"We Don't Need No Stinking Giant Fans"

This sounds like a lament from a Dodgers fan.

"American political leaders have yet to understand that "green power" means generating electricity by burning dollars."

Any time you need a shot of truth about wind farms, start here:
http://friendsofgranderondevalley.com/

ALEX // Oh noes! They only worked for 19 years! And were replaced by newer models! Quelle Horreur! //

The bizarre picture of what look like old-style oil derricks on the AT page has a somewhat different accompanying text when you click through -- [rearranged]

// This is a photo of the northwest face of the wind gap at Tehachapi, California. Looks like the old oil patch doesn't it?
These are Zond Corporation turbines - near two decades old and still cranking. Now this is Yankee Engineering...
Unbelievable!

California and many other states are installing their second or third generations of improved wind turbines.
Ten or more of these old machines are replaced by one new multi-megawatt turbine, improving output and diminishing visual impact. //

Their appearance suggests that a lot of the subsidies went to oil consruction firms to keep them in cash during the 80s bust.
A less bizarre of the Tehachapi wind farm picture of http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA4977/
In spite of old Yankee engineering the article notes that Europeans are making increasing sales in the U.S.
Well, that's what happens when you pioneer new tecnnologies.

ERLANGEN, GERMANY 2010-12-31 (Commodity Online ): Siemens AG (, the global powerhouse in electrical and electronics engineering has announced that it has received the largest onshore wind order to data from US utility MidAmerican Energy headquartered in Des Moines, Iowa. Recently Siemens got a first order for wind turbines from Brazil, paving the way for a plant in Latin American coutnry, while in India Siemens expects its first winder turbine order in the coming weeks.

“It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”–Thomas Jefferson

Today's Vancouver Sun has a special section on "renewable" energy. The splash picture is of a group of hikers sitting on a viewpoint rock. Behind them is a line of giant fans on a ridge, stretching into the distance (God, I hope it's a Photoshop).

To a true conservationist this display of a desecrated wilderness would be a hanging offence for all concerned. After drawing and quartering of course.

Bad News