Mega-Scandal: Was ‘Gunwalker’ a PR Op for Gun Control?
Fast and Furious, also known by the more accurate “Gunwalker,” allowed known straw purchasers to buy large quantities of firearms — often a dozen or more semi-automatic rifles — at a time with the full knowledge of ATF agents and executives. The guns were then smuggled into Mexico, as frustrated front-line ATF agents watched, under strict orders to do nothing.
ATF agents testifying in front of the House Oversight Committee could not explain how the operation was supposed to succeed when their surveillance efforts stopped at the border and interdiction was never an option.
ATF Agent John Dodson, testifying in front of the committee, said that in his entire law enforcement career, he had “never been involved in or even heard of an operation in which law enforcement officers let guns walk.” He continued: “I cannot begin to think of how the risk of letting guns fall into the hands of known criminals could possibly advance any legitimate law enforcement interest.”
The obvious answer is that Gunwalker’s objective was never intended to be a “legitimate law enforcement interest.” Instead, it appears that ATF Acting Director Ken Melson and Department of Justice senior executives specifically created an operation that was designed from the outset to arm Mexican narco-terrorists and increase violence substantially along both sides of the Southwest border.
Something tells me this is getting zero coverage in Canada.
Oh, I don't suspect there was a perceived need to increase violence along both sides of the border.
The political reason to do this relates to the laughable claims that "...90% of the guns siezed in Mexico..." claim (just search; it's a number used often by the leftists/gun control crowd). The real numbers are that something like 90% of the guns siezed that ARE TRACED , trace back to the U.S. Still, this is an enormously boneheaded reason, but their are Important People that have been using that figure and they must not be shown up when they utter nonsense.
That's my best guess for an otherwise inexplicably brain-dead policy.
I agree with Chris. This story struck me as another "Ricky Ross" story -- a huge conspiracy story cooked up by the Left in the '80's.
It attempted to connect the CIA, DEA, and just about everybody and everything on the face of the earth to drug addiction and overdose among Blacks in California, to the CIA sponsored counter-revolution in Central America -- a humongous master theory tieing everything evil together to blame Reagan. The infamous "Christic Institute" did a lot of the investigating and propagation of the conspiracy.
It was fascinating reading but total bunk.
It looks like the people down South who've been buying up all the ammo and reloading supplies were right in their beliefs that Obama had radical gun control in mind.
Chris: my guess is that you are on to something. Much of the illegal guns come from more distant locations. For example, Brazil makes very good guns in the category mentioned and so does Communist China. The prices would be a fraction of US mfgrs.
In one capture in B.C. a few years ago, several pistols were seized from a car trunk. They were Chez manufacture; much higher quality than the usual junk (Chinese made, my guess) according to a police spokesperson.
In another in San Diego, 1998 I believe, a warehouse full of weapons and ammunition, estimated at 4 boxcar loads, were seized; all Chinese made.
So why would Mexican crooks bother to acquire US made?
gunney99, American guns are in great demand among the Mexican drug gangs. Quality, y'know. M-16 gets much higher cool value that a crappy Chicom AK knock-off. These guys are scum but they know their guns.
This Gunwalker case has been on the web for a while now, long before any of these hearings were even scheduled. It goes along hand in hand with the complete lack of enforcement from Border Patrol which reaches back into the Bush regime.
Somebody is getting a Special Deal. It ain't Arizona, or Texas.
We're "working on gun control under the radar." BHO
OMG, it is just sick enough to be true that this is what he meant.
Latest today is that the director of BATF Kenneth Melson is falling on his sword over this, so Tim in Vermont might very well be right. They're offering up a highly-enough placed head to give "plausible deniability" to Barry and his cabinet.
Barry and his clown circus probably planned it from the start, it has a kind of amateurish jackbooted "community organizer" feel about it. Law is there for our convenience, not because its important kinda thing. Very Lefty.
Maybe they were planning a little orchestrated "international incident" with Mexico as a lever for re-introducing gun control and an excuse to come down hard on those f-ing rednecks in southern border states. Who knows how these moron's brains work?
Also possible they're just incredibly, stunningly stupid and thought it would work.
Obamba hates American people.
Anytime you have a government that does not trust its citizens with arms, you need to fear that government.
A nation’s legitimate right to ownership of guns by its law abiding citizens proves the trust and the legitimacy of a nation’s government as standing with its people and not against.
But it still cool to be an Obama supporter....
-David Axelrod-
.50 caliber sniper rifles. Hmm wonder if those are up in the hills of Arizona?
Americans can't thank the hog Oprah enough, her cheerleading for this devious operative posing as president was what pushed this evil onto the good people of America. He must be stopped through impeachment, or the days of the Americans helping out with every disaster in the world, and trying to stop evil around the world are over. Hard to fight evil with an evil man in charge of a benevolent nation, so sad if this gunwalker thing is true. I see the OWN network is bleeding red ink, Good.
Phantom,
I wouldn't discount that Chinese "junk." My understanding is that the Chinese knock-off's are just as good as anything you can buy south of the border.
Kate, Gunwalker ain't get getting all that much coverage down here, either, except, of course, in the Fast & Fraudulent article in the current NRA mag.
But it still cool to be an Obama supporter....
-David Axelrod-
Presidents have led us into worst situations than this.
Sending us off to fight so called unjust wars against foreign peoples.
But if this is true-
he would be the first son of a bitch that ever authorized the dept of justice to conceive an operation that would kill Innocent American civilians.
And I would personally hold the coat of the man that hangs his ass.
Currently Ollie North is explaining to the BATF - very slowly I might add - that the opposing side of the war on drugs do not qualify as 'freedom fighters'.
"Something tells me this is getting zero coverage in Canada."
Considering that rarely any American networks cover anything about Canada(unless it is something stupid like a hockey riot), we need not feel bad if some American stories don't get coverage on Canadian stations. Besides, we cover American stories to a high degree as it is.
"Something tells me this is getting zero coverage in Canada."
Considering that rarely any American networks cover anything about Canada(unless it is something stupid like a hockey riot), we need not feel bad if some American stories don't get coverage on Canadian stations. Besides, we cover American stories to a high degree as it is.
Canuck guy, I think you missed the point.
To further your comment Mike McCormick,
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/17/carney_obama_did_not_know_about_or_authorize_border_gunrunning_operation.html
Cribbed from the comments at rcp
"I read a great article about this today in American Rifleman. The program cost $88 million. The funds came from the so-called "stimulus" bill which was written by convicted felon and admitted communist, Van Jones. The Mexican government was NEVER informed nor were they ever given any information which would allow them to trace any weapons they happened to confiscate. The ATF and DEA personnel working in Mexico and along our border were kept completely in the dark and those who sought information were threatened with damage to their careers. Another aspect of the program was a publicity campaign designed to spread the lie that over 90% of the weapons used by the drug cartels in Mexico came from the US. In fact, only a tiny fraction of their weapons come from the US. You can purchase an AK 47 for about $50 on the world market and the porous southern border of Mexico, all 577 miles, is policed by fewer than 125 Mexican border police. There is absolutely no logical reason for a drug cartel to purchase the same weapon in the US for upwards of $1000.
This whole program was a sham designed to push an anti-2d amendment campaign by the Obama adminstration. You won't hear any of this on CNN or NBC. This illegal campaign of lies began at the highest levels of this administration. There is NO way Eric Holder, Marc Rich's attorney, was not involved and frankly, it requires the willing suspension of disbelief to think that [delete] Obama was not involved in this."
I think Canuckguy has a perfectly valid point. I'm an American, and I can attest that we hardly ever hear about anything but stupid hockey riots.
LJB >
"I wouldn't discount that Chinese "junk.""
I would agree to that, especially if you’re on a budget. Some of the Chinese stuff is indeed junk, some of it is pretty damned good, especially for the price. A competent gun person can recognize the differences or even clean up some of the not so pretty metal/ wood finishing on the better stuff.
To further your comment Mike McCormick,
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/17/carney_obama_did_not_know_about_or_authorize_border_gunrunning_operation.html
Cribbed from the comments at rcp
"I read a great article about this today in American Rifleman. The program cost $88 million. The funds came from the so-called "stimulus" bill which was written by convicted felon and admitted communist, Van Jones. The Mexican government was NEVER informed nor were they ever given any information which would allow them to trace any weapons they happened to confiscate. The ATF and DEA personnel working in Mexico and along our border were kept completely in the dark and those who sought information were threatened with damage to their careers. Another aspect of the program was a publicity campaign designed to spread the lie that over 90% of the weapons used by the drug cartels in Mexico came from the US. In fact, only a tiny fraction of their weapons come from the US. You can purchase an AK 47 for about $50 on the world market and the porous southern border of Mexico, all 577 miles, is policed by fewer than 125 Mexican border police. There is absolutely no logical reason for a drug cartel to purchase the same weapon in the US for upwards of $1000.
This whole program was a sham designed to push an anti-2d amendment campaign by the Obama adminstration. You won't hear any of this on CNN or NBC. This illegal campaign of lies began at the highest levels of this administration. There is NO way Eric Holder, Marc Rich's attorney, was not involved and frankly, it requires the willing suspension of disbelief to think that [delete] Obama was not involved in this."
Above post to LBJ was not knocking Phantoms previous comments,
If I was depending on a weapon for a livelihood i.e. Mexican drug dealer with 100% probability of needing it to save my life, and had the millions in drug money to spend, well I suppose I’d also be buying the best that my money could buy as well.
Right out of a US armoury as many of Hillary Clintons evil American drug guns actually come from, and not the streets as claimed.
This smells. It has the stink of betrayal all about it.
Perhaps the most sickening part of this is that the BATF people running this thought it was a great program, and, as far as the people killed by those guns, well, ( one agent testified )the " sentiment " from higher-ups was, " if you are going to make an omelet, you need to scramble some eggs. "
Wonder if Barry gives Holder the sack over this.
Pajamas Media has covered it some. The deceit and incompetence I am getting used to. The expecting to get away with it..not so much.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/what-and-who-made-gunwalker-tick/
So, when does Congress intend to publicly depose the chain of command at Justice, and get to the bottom of this? Heads must roll.
seems to me the story is about the ATF supplying guns not about the guns.
incredible if true.
Well if you want to indulge in conspiracy theories....
How about ..... because it creates plenty of opportunities for demanding more funding for certain bloated and incompetent bureaucracies?
Or just plain incompetence.
Knight99: It is my understanding that some of that Chinese junk is winning mil competitions.
This was a program which was most likely designed to prove the Obozo administrations claims that 90% of guns in Mexico came from the US. Should there be proof of this, it would have been used to attack 2nd Amendment rights. As the 2nd Amendment is part of the US constitution, those members of the government involved in this operation violated their oath to protect the US constitution. This may be what is needed to impeach the Big Zero.
What will be interesting to see is whether enough Democrats are disgusted by this to actually support impeachment. An independent investigation is needed and the Republicans need to get very aggressive in pursuing this matter. Just what is needed prior to the next presidential election.
As far as Chicom guns go, I've been quite happy with my Norinco M14 knockoff. Sure, I'd rather have a US made M14, but the last gun show I went to had one on sale for $2500. Don't shoot the M14 much now considering that .308 ammo has gone up to $1/round and there is none of the Chicom ammo available anymore.
that was designed from the outset to arm Mexican narco-terrorists and increase violence substantially along both sides of the Southwest border
U.S Federal Agents fomenting border violence which spills into the U.S.
A casual look would give the impression that a Civil Cold War is playing out with the U.S. Federal government arming proxies against U.S. Southern border states.
At stake once again...States rights and the U.S. Constitutional divison of powers.
gunney99 >
That wouldn't surprise me.
as long as a bunch of cops get shot to death it's ok with me.
Jesus >
You’re a trolling lefty hack. But I do hope the police trace your comment back through your IP address and ask you to explain further, face to face.
You do realize that your comment and IP never disappear :)
Holy Cow!
How's "stooping so low to reach so high" working out for 6:15 AM Jesus-troll and the Democrats, eh?
"Jesus", a.k.a. "ping", a.k.a. "Lloyd Fister"
Jesus pings Lloyd Fister!
Shows you the difference when you let the professionals run the operation (as with the Seal whacking of Osama), instead of Obama's bureaucrats whose only expertise is in Left propaganda, as with this disasterous Gunwalker program.
Possible impeachment?
Well ya gotta try to appreciate how the leftist gun-grabbing mentality works.
Witness how the MSM and LPC/NDP spun an islamic terror attack(Ghamal Gharby/Ecole Politechnique) into a fire-arms control/gender issue.
"Fast and Furious" was just a clumsey attempt to justify ending the Second Ammendment and roll back the LCC issue. Billary's promotion of the UN Firearms Treaty, BHA citing 90% thing is the smoke which marks the fire.
Every rule has an exception---
This is malfeasance not incompetance!
LJB, Knight99, I don't mean to say the Norinco guns are useless, they aren't. Hundreds of thousands of them out there, AKs and SKSs, shoot ok and don't jam.
Until you get them hot. THEN you get issues. Cook-offs, cracking, wandering aim-point, stove piping. By hot I mean three mags in a minute or two, as guys do in a free-for-all with a couple dozen other untrained idiot drug thugs. Zero fire discipline.
Mexican criminals respect the American made iron because it can (usually) withstand hundreds of rounds and glow red before it craps out. Chicom guns often don't.
Same deal with British FN/FAL and the Argentine version. Different quality and attention to detail. Argy version is good, Brit version is better.
The Phantom >
I hear ya!
My biggest problem is that I like em all.
love the FN/FAl as well, thanks for posting that, even like seeing the monikers in print.