Nathan Kotylak Issues a Public Apology

Yes, he is sincere.
No, he was turned in. This has been reported.
No
He should get the going sentence for attempted arson and ordered today restitution.

sincerely caught

in fairness he is only 17 years old and whom among us were not such and filled with the virtues or lack of only to have our balls bounced within or without. a poem

I literally was caught underneath a girls bed at his age, parents came home in the middle of the night and where were the police when i needed them most?
label-things my children do not know.

For trying to burn a police car you can bet every Vancouver cop will have memorized this turd's license plate number and will harass him for years to come. That is assuming this POS even has a car to drive. Would not be surprised if someone torches his ride.

No more trips at taxpayers' expense?

Yes, the emotional pendulum has swung the other way - he is sincere. But my God he set a police car on fire! As a 17 year old he couldn't possibly have known whether that thing would go up like a bomb or a bon-fire. Was the trunk full of tear gas cannisters? Who knows? People's lives were clearly in danger - not to mention the disregard for public property. Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law - which fortunately for him is relatively inconsequential.

Is that where the 'nic' B
lanks came from??
Sorry, couldn't resist after reading comment.

I imagine this is a kid who had every opportunity. His father is very rich, he goes to a private school, lives in a very luxurious home, and likely doesn't have to worry about part-time summer work to make ends meet. He's probably never had to struggle for anything, except to get up early in the morning to go to water polo practice. Even now, I sense his father is behind all this, getting the best lawyer, as many parents would (what other 17 year old could go to court to get an injunction!), though his father likely has spent his whole life throwing money at his children. That being said, I believe he is genuinely remorseful (of course, being caught is part of it...I doubt any of his friends turned themselves in, assuming they were involved). There are consequences though, he's forever going to be online as an arsonist and vandal. What should his punishment be? As he is a young offender, it'll likely be a slap on the wrist, especially after his apology, but as I said earlier, he'll wear this for many years to come and his Olympic dream may never now come true.

Is he remorseful for torching the police car or for getting caught, embarrassing his parents, derailing his polo game and messing up his future?

An apology how ever sincere does not undo the fact that he committed arson and vandalism and who knows what else before he was captured on someone's phone cam. Just because he has a rich daddy who hired him an expensive lawyer to tell him exactly what to say, does not mean that he should not get off more lightly than anyone else.

Here's my words to him: Man up you sh*tty little punk and take your punishment! You're lucky you don't have to deal with me. If I was your judge, I would make you miserable.

Nathan must pay and be punished for what he did. I was 17 at one time in my life also. I did not set cars on fire or riot in a city. NO EXCUSES. I have no sympathy for what he's done. It was 100% his choice.

I've carefully studied the time-tested lofty principles of Canadian justice and concluded the following.

He's good looking and upper-middle class, send him home with a warning not to get caught again.

#3 I think his apology is sincere and that he can be forgiven, but he also needs to make retribution. If his retribution is lacking, than the courts have failed him and all those after.

I believe he should provide community service as well as pay a fine. The fine should be split equally among all those charged in the riot and that total amount should be equal to the damages done.

As far as his schooling goes; I would be content to see both his scholarship and player status suspended until he has fulfilled his community service in entirety. I think 500hrs of community service would be sufficient.

The idea that he likely turned himself in because of photos should be hugely weighed in defining his punishment. That goes with all others too.

It is quite obvious this was a suggested action after consultaning with his lawyer, in hopes his tearfull apoligy reduces some time of his inevitable jail sentance. Bottom line arson is a very serious charge crown petitions he be charged as a adult. Final punishment for Nathan 2 years less a day. His butt gets saved from the pen but gets the max time in the provincial system.

Torching a police car is not youthful exuberance. I say throw the kid in jail maximum time for arson and get his parents to cough up the full cost of a brand new police car.

While he may be sincere in his apology, if he wasn't caught red handed in those photos you can bet his sorry ass that he would have never come out with an apology. What he's doing right now is damage control, no doubt orchestrated by his father. Kudos for coming out with an apology I guess, but at the end of the day he still tried to set fire to a police car.

Up until this moment he has apparently been the son that we all wish we had. Getting wound up in a mob frenzy is just that, "wound up in a mob frenzy". Does it help society to wipe out all the good things he's done before this? Make payment for his share of the damages, community service and lets move on. He's 17 and by the sounds of it, a pretty sheltered 17.

He's about as sincere as a gang-banger.Throw the leftie/entitled punk in fed pen. We were all 17 once.How many of us over 45 thought it would be "fun" to torch cop cars? Sure are a lot of gullible folks on here tonight.

Add to my original post Nathan and Brock will make great cell mates so much to share.

As much (federal?) prison time as possible. Rich white kids have to have an example made for them to show them that daddy's money ain't going to help them when they play revolutionary. Seeing this douche spend 5 years in a real prison will get some of them thinking twice about this. (Whether politically motivated or just sh*t disturbing.)

He's sincere now because he got caught. Without modern social media he would have made every possible attempt to hide and conceal his crime.
The suitable punishment would be full restitution of the cost of the damages and eight strokes of the cane a la Hong Kong or Singapore. But we all know what he'll actually get -- told not to do it again, "community service" and media celebrity.

He waived his shelter as a young offender because he no longer had anonymity.

He cried when he apologized for embarrassing his parents.

He almost broke down when he said he was provisionally suspended from participation in the national water polo program.

Other than that, he was just reading a script. He wasn't sorry at all about what he did - he was sorry he was caught and had to face repercussions.

I think he has lost every advantage and achievement that his family made possible for him and that will haunt him for the rest of his life. Any punishment that the courts mete out will be nothing compared to the reality of life now with the shame and embarrassment he's caused his family,plus the self loathing that's never going to leave his side. That's a lot of punishment at 17. We've all been that age and know that life can change 180 degrees in the blink of an eye. What he did was incredibly stupid but I do have some sympathy for him being such a dumb young ass.

I couldn't help but notice that the first thing he got visably emotional about was getting suspended from water polo. Its about his loss, not the many who lost at the hands of people like him.

Jail time, restitution and a permeanent ban from water polo seem in order. I certainly wouldn't want him representing Canada in any sport and especially not with tax dollars paying any part of it.

In the riot-night picture he's wearing a knapsack. That could be completely innocent, but I doubt it. I suspect he came downtown with riot aforethought.

But the one I'd really like to get is the bozo in the black mask standing in the background.

Sincere, definitely.

His job as a real man is to would waive legal counsel and throw himself on the mercy of the courts. Better yet, ask for jail time and set an example.

He was probably coached in how to appear sincere by his lawyer. He'll also find out that daddy's money won't get him out of this situation. I suspect he's also not particularly bright if he aspires to go to university to play water polo.

Likely he's had no contact with reality aside from the pampered existence he's led in lotusland. As far as prison goes, I'm not a big fan. The cops who were in the area were derelict in their duties for not shooting him or other people who were setting cars on fire or looting. Ideally, in a setting like the Vancouver riot, property owners would be armed and surviving looters who were captured would be kept in jail until they or their families paid restitution.

There was an interesting article in the NP on bringing back corporal punishment rather than imprisonment. This makes eminently more sense than tossing someone in jail for years which costs the taxpayer huge amounts of money and just teaches them how to be a better criminal. Certain people shouldn't be on the street in which case jail time makes sense and people like Clifford Olson should be put into a soundproof room with the families of his victims.

I agree with DrD - payment of full restitution including investigative costs and a public caning. That might serve to give him some contact with reality where actions have consequences.

Those who advocate long imprisonment should think back to their youth and realize that what we used to do for fun back then would get us long prison sentences now. I liked to blow things up as a 15 year old and made sure I did it in the bush but even making a bomb now is considered a far more serious crime than lighting a police car on fire. Just try riding through the streets of Calgary on a bicycle now with your .22 slung over your shoulder as you head out past the city limits to shoot gophers. Be thankful that the guy wasn't muslim as he would probably get an automatic discharge by claiming that carbacues are a sacred religious tradition.

Sure, I believe he is sincerely sorry for everything he has lost.

And for you bleeding hearts - he was no victim and all the others aren't victims either ... doesn't matter if they are rich/poor, white/non-white etc.

BTW: I think that other criminals (even those that are not riot prone) would love to make a public statement, and have it broadcast, just before sentencing. Wheelbarrows full of remorse ... wheelbarrows full.

As more of them are ferreted out, I'm sure we'll get more of these tearful statements.

I do wonder how many of those people that worked at the ransacked stores were told they didn't have work until the stores were repaired. But what the hell, they don't need the money.

For what it's worth, here's one ER Nurse's response to another apology.

Thanks for the link to the nurse's comments.

Like many here, I have dubts that 'justice' will be done. If some of the people the nurse mentioned perished due to exposure related to arson, charges should be related to manslaughter. You are responsible for your actions; I hope the courts hold them responsible.

That said, clearly the internet itself has assisted in many arrests. And although these jerks may be pardoned in a decade or two, these videos will live on.

I'll forgive, once responsibility for their actions is accepted and enforced. Until then, mock, ridicule, and shame their family and friends. They'll eventually learn that accepting full responsibility is the least painful option.

Happy Fathers Day!

Gotta love those people who cry without shedding any tears at all.

1) He should pay the full cost of the damage and a fine on top of that.
2) He should do 2 years of community service.

"my actions do not reflect who I want to be"

Duh......

He has a difficult road ahead, as he should. If he goes trough it appropriately then fine, he is just 17. But make him go through it.

What a shock, good family, lots of opportunity no shortage of (not) support. Happens again and again. He needs to go through the process and be a poster boy of bad choices.

Actually the last two minutes should be shown to every kid again and again. He googles himself and finds good things....aint the interwebs a wonderful thang......now its flooded with crap associated with his actions, that will NEVER disappear.

Future dates, employers, business partners, neighbours will see it.

Maybe this generation learns that if you are going to have a glass house you have to keep your house clean and keep your clothes on.

His kind make it harder on the decent kids.

Punish pour encourager les autres.

His eyes tell me he's more trouble down the road.

Anthony Weiner "I'm untouchable" kind of trouble.

I think that it's unlikely that he's sincere. I think that it's also unlikely that this was his own idea. I might give him a lesser sentence because he has apologized, simply because I think that even the act of apology is likely to make him feel different about what he has done.

Having said that, I'm a firm believer that "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." I think that he should be required to do work equal to three times the replacement cost of the police car and everything in it. He should not be paid for the work. He should be required, while doing the work, to wear clothing clearly stating what he did.

I wish that it were possible to bring back the stocks.

His sobbing was fake.

I suspect he still respects his parents who probably compelled him to turn himself in and apologize, and so, he may be half-assed sorry.

Short of corporal punishment, public humiliation in stocks in the same public space where the rioting and mayhem took place would be appropriate and then posted on 'You Tube'.

I suspect the deterrent effect on the anarchists and shit disturbers would be profound.

Where is Art Hanger when you need him, eh?

What a sucker I am: I cried when he started to cry -- but at the end of that interview my impression was that the only reason he turned himself in and apologized was because he'd been caught out, because when he Googled himself, all that came up was his vandalism and arson. Everyone knew who he was and what he'd done: no place to hide.

Taking responsibility for his criminal actions is a tough pill to swallow -- it always is -- but I don't go along with the commenters who say "he was only 17." So what? At 17, you're old enough to know right from wrong -- and if you don't know the difference, then God have mercy on your soul and everyone else's who has to deal with you.

Suspension for a few years from water polo at any level or until he pays back what he owes for damaged property and does time either in the clink or doing community service. House arrest wouldn't be a bad idea, though by the sounds of it, his life would be pretty cushy chez lui. I'm for the flogging that people in Singapore get: It would be deeply humiliating and it would hurt like hell: a good deterrent to ever doing anything like this again -- and a good deterrent for the other bullies who might be thinking of raising a little Cain at the next big public gathering: 'scratch a bully and you always find a coward.

As for the apology by Tim Kwong, the guy who, apparently, lit the first vehicle on fire, he said of himself " ... this is NOT like me !!" That's what all the little s**ts say when they're caught red-handed. What does he mean "this is NOT like me"? It wasn't anyone other than him who vandalized someone else's property: It was Tim Kwong, and nobody else.

Kudos to the ER nurse who put the riots in a much broader perspective and who told Tim Kwong, "You, Tim Kwong, are a douchtard. Apology not accepted."

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Tie him to a bed, naked, spread peanut butter all over him, and then let Rita McNeil have at him after 3 days of fasting.

Love the nurse's reponse. For those not working in health care you have to realise she is very courageous in speaking out. We often see crap happenning that would infuiate most tax payers, (because we have 'free health care', don'tcha know!?). Her response pretty much describes how most health care employees feel, but we are bound by "what happens in hospital stays in the hospital".
And "sorry" doesn't fix it.
If justice isn't served in these cases we are toast, and parent's might as well give up trying to bring up good citizens.

First of all, I forgive him, I have to, my faith insists on it in order to,expect forgiveness too. I think he was sincere, remorse was written all over him, he hurt his extended family and all his friends and may have destroyed his young life. If he's any kind of a man, he will get over this and most people are willing to accept him back. That said, he must pay for what he has done, or else he runs the risk of thinking it wasn't, afterall, that bad. Time and fine. Still he's one of many and there were a lot worse out there whose apologies I will not accept because of their age and their politics.

If he gets a crimanal record he cannot travel with the Junior Canadian Water Polo team across borders. Dad's money can't fix that after the fact.
If he is convicted he should be off the team anyway despite his Dad saying the picture is misleading.
Must be Liberals.

Well, I'm one who says 'he's only 17' and at that age, or any age, for that matter, when one is caught up in an emotional hysteria that is the definitive characteristic of a mob...individual reason disappears very rapidly.

The key question is: was it predetermined? If such acts were part of the agenda of these people when they went to the event such as was the case at the G20 in Toronto...that's criminal and there should be jail.

If they were not predetermined, then, that's another issue. IF and Only IF, they come forward, apologize, and make restitution by fines and community work - that's OK with me. I don't recommend jail time!

I recommend instead a fine specific to a particular loss, i.e., pay for this specific window at the Bay and help install and clean it and other specific damage up and more community service. Again- he's only 17.

The phrase is 'caught up in an emotion'. I think crowd emotion is very poorly understood. It's like a virus that sweeps over a group and all the people in the group lose their individual identity and the constraints of living-as-an-individual and merge into One Emotional Act.

It happens not only in times of crisis - such as frightened people trying to get through a door and trampling on each other, but in other times of mass collectivism..and we've seen it in fascist nationalism, in times of war, in other crowd events.

If you are able to stand on the margins of this growing collective hysteria, then, you remain an individual and can be your reasoning self. If your individual reality is weak, due to youth or other reasons and has been engulfed by the crowd...much as a black hole will swallow a single star...then, you are simply basic energy in the will of that crowd.

I think a crowd control agenda has to have one focus: keep the mass of people self-identified as individuals. Try to prevent the loss of individuality, prevent them from, like bacteria, merging into one..prevent them becoming a mob.

Tactics of preventing mergers and maintaining individuality...I'm not sure. I'd recommend preplanned post-game events, such as Signs saying: "we know we've lost this one but, there are FIVE post-game events to go to. CHOOSE one of these five'. [The agenda is to keep people as individuals by having them choose what to do rather than lose their capacity to choose as happens when they become a mob].

Riot police are deliberately dressed as One, and behave as One. Their tactic is to be One Mob that intimidates the Other Mob. OK - that might have to be done in the cases of premediated criminality such as the Toronto G20 mob behaviour.

But to prevent the emergence of a spontaneous mob - I'd suggest tactics that do just this. Keep the crowd in a mental state where they must choose: Do this or this or that. Give them options: go to this street party or that post-game event or this....

Just a suggestion. Crowd behaviour needs more study. And - when you are 17, it's easy to lose yourself. Help them to create self-strength; don't just fling them into jail.

Let's call it his Todd Bertuzzi impersonation interview. He, like others, is remorseful after being outed. His responses were self-centered - all about meeeeeeeeeeeeee and sounded scripted.

The consequences for him should be truly harsh, especially because of his rich up-bringing - he has had every and all advantage in life and threw it away. Restitution - not daddy's money, off the Olympic team for sure and the U of Calgary would beyond stupid to allow him to keep his scholarship.

One by one, the rioters are being ID'

http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/

Regardless of the criminal justice outcomes for him, he has a giant digital, non-erasable tattoo across his forehead, forever more branded on the internet for future employers, future wife's family future children to see.

Hell of a legacy for someone with such a have it all upbringing.

I would give good money to be able to peer into the minds of many parents when the sneak a peek at their little darlings over the breakfast table after seeing them in these photos. Do they realise where they went wrong, or do they take solace in all of the excuses these kids so easily put forth? Are they prepared to finally take charge of their kids upbringing, or are they going to go to the next parent teacher night and act like the fault lies entirely with the educators and a few "bad apples" and not themselves? Will these parents hide behind the vapid explanations and scapegoats being handed out by various guilty politicians and public officials desperate to save their own skins?

I get the feeling most, reeling from the cognitive dissonance of seeing that their kids are little more than feral animals, will take every opportunity to avoid facing their failures and join the growing chorus of blame shifting and denial. By and large, most will continue to take the easy way out. That is what our permissive society has taught THEM for years too. A little paint and some redecorating will make everything better. Maybe a new car too.

"Help them to create self-strength; don't just fling them into jail."

Fine, 5 years with the PPCLI, on the pointy end of defending his right to foolishly light up a police cruiser, paid for by his neighbours and not get shot doing so - "defending democracy".

The thing that bothered me the most, besides him being caught, was the so "gentle voice" of the reporter. Soft ball questions. (Sun media must not have been there - Ezra would have asked different questions.) His defense will be that he is a "young offender", and nothing "bad" will happen in our court system. Sadly, this is his only payment to society.

Now, IF it were a son of a Conservative MP (or a judge/police officer's son), she would be not as restrained, and butcher the "child." As for the adults involved, all they will get is a lecture by the judge saying that they should be happy this happened in Canada, where the law is there to protect them, not society.

Well, Brigette DePape has her first example of an "Arab Spring" riot. Hope she is proud, for that is what she thinks must happen to "Stop Harper" in Canada.

Hey remember when you were 17 and committed arson against police cars over a hockey game? Yeah neither do I. We all know what the deal is here. His lawyer's PR guy said it'd be best to do this and he'd probably get off.

Arson is a serious crime. He should do no less than two years in prison.

Again - the focus has to be on whether the actions were predetermined or spontaneous.

The G20 Toronto riots were led by people who came with a predetermined agenda to incite and carry out massive damage. The Vancouver riots were not, as far as I can see, predetermined. Was there a specific focus on anti-hockey games? No.

We have to understand the nature of spontaneous crowd formation...and try to prevent its emergence. Again, a spontaneous crowd is completely, totally, different from a predetermined mob. Totally. You can be the most upstanding citizen and in a spontaneous crowd, lose your self-identity and become One.

Whether it's swooning over Obama or a pop star or moving into an even more hysteric phase and damaging and rioting...this loss of individual boundaries can happen to most of us.

So, it's easy to say: 'fling them all in jail' which frankly, won't do a thing to prevent another spontaneous mob from ever emerging and won't help these young people develop as responsible citizens.

My suggestion is for restitution in both kind and money by the individuals concerned, and tactics in the future at crowd events to prevent the crowd from merging into One, and keep options and choices available for post-event time. The agenda is to keep them as individuals and prevent their merger into a crowd.

I think those who are advocating jail time are viewing the behaviour as pre-determined (as it was at the Toronto G20) or are not recognizing what happens when an individual disappears into a crowd.

ET: " ... and all the people in the group lose their individual identity ..."

Why? They don't have to. It's a personal choice, and Nathan Kotylak talks about personal choice a lot in his apology. He says that doing what he did was a choice for which he now says he takes responsibility. (My faith, too, larben, says I forgive him, but it also requires justice and restitution for the damage done.)

Each person in that crowd made a choice -- to either not vandalize and commit arson or to vandalize and commit arson. Each person on the sidelines also made a choice: to go home, to try and prevent the vandalism, or to take photos and laugh and make the riots a spectator sport.

Except under very exceptional circumstances in war or under extreme duress, each one of us makes a choice to either do the right thing or to do the wrong thing -- many times in any given day. Nathan Kotylak, unfortunately, made some very bad choices the night of Wednesday, June 15 for which his age does not exonerate him. There were many teenagers in that crowd who chose not to ruin others' property, so the age excuse doesn't hold.

He sure is sincerely embarrassed and remorseful. Disgracing your family like this is hugely humbling, unless you're the dregs of society.

But, I'm curious. You're an innocent kid who goes to an event with the intention of celebrating a win. Where does a match come into the equation (if you're a non-smoking water polo player), and an extra T-shirt to set alight?
I can't even go that far in my mind, but then try and put it in a gas tank?
He's lost me there as it doesn't sound too spontaneous. (The fire and/or explosion would have been though, which as a gr 12 student he would have known.)

Thank God for all the photographs. When the police don't do their job before things get out of control, it's the best chance they have to lay charges. Nothing like playing catch-up.

What batb said—including the crying.

“Only 17”: my dad lied about his age and was in Holland fighting against Hitler—and seeing atrocities he never spoke about—at just a little bit older. Nathan couldn’t explain why he did what he did. There’s something very wrong with that response. Before the age of about seven, developmentally, kids often really can’t explain their motivations. But, at SEVENTEEN? Come on . . . If Nathan can’t explain his actions, hey, what’s to say that he might be in the same position again and make the wrong choices again too? His response here is troubling.

batb and I are both teachers: I’ll bet we feel just the same about the spoiled brats who are let off the hook all the time because, “They’re only __ years old”. I’m not kidding, I’ve worked with nasty kids of younger than ten, who craftily plan the havoc they inflict on those around them—and then get away with it. In one school I know of, these kids are actually rewarded for their bad behaviour: they get to play games in the office of the school counsellor. Consequences or restitution for their odious and sometimes dangerous behaviour, like completely trashing the computer room by throwing desks and computers around? No way. “They’re only __ years old,” is the system’s useless response—and the kids go on to misbehave in worse ways. It’s sickening.

I’ve got some sympathy for Nathan and his family. But the best thing that can happen to this young man is that he really face the music. He and the community at large, especially the others who acted—or will act—like thugs out there, need to see justice done. It’s letting our kids off the hook all the time—the “hug a thug” mentality of our education and “justice” systems—that’s got us to this sorry place. Enough!