CWB: Rolf Penner on Charles Adler

Wow, a rural conservative welfare bum farmer and a urban conservative trough feeding propagandist preaching the virtues of the free market.

And where did the troll get its breakii from this AM???

@ phil

And an unknowledgeable left wing socialist commenting as usual on soemthing they know nothing or very little about, typical elitist thinking forget about who benifit's just keep govornment in control so they are guarenteed to always benifit off the backs of farmers your a dueche phil!!!

such a brilliant - frankly dazzling - argument phil - your parents must be so proud.

I am one of those uninformed farmers who looks forward to the day when I can sell MY wheat to whoever I want for the price we agree on without the "help"of the CWB. If every other farmer in western Canada wanted the CWB I should still have the freedom to sell my property as I see fit.
As for Pat Martin and Harper. I find it encouraging that the CPC will actually do what they promised and end the monopoly. Shocking that a politician would keep a promise. How can anyone say they voted conservative not knowing the monopoly would be ended? Talk about uninformed.

Finally!

One more stab in the heart to the collective.

We must not stop until the collective is no more.

...see it isn't futile to resist.

Amazing, when left to the voting farmers, CWB candidates who support the single desk marketing and so called "monopoly" are elected, obviously the majority of the farmers voting support the continuation of the CWB in its present form. Long live the CWB!!!

On like Phil I know farming. I farm to make money. never did get a BA in BS like you. kicked out of grade 3 at 11. To stupid to learn. If I need a BA today I hire one [two because one cannot work alone]. There is more money made out side the wheat board. That's the way it is.

And where did the troll get its breakii from this AM???

I bought it. Why are you rationalizing socialism?

And an unknowledgeable left wing socialist commenting as usual on soemthing they know nothing or very little about,

Well, I know right wing hypocrisy when I see it. It would be refreshing if just one of you yahoos would practice what you preach, just once.

I should still have the freedom to sell my property as I see fit.

I should have the freedom to keep my property, the fruit of my labour, and not have to forever subsidize your sorry arse.

T - I have relatives on the farm in Saskatchewan. It is only the older farmers who support the CWB. Younger farmers are very well educated - often taking Degrees or Diplomas in Agriculture from accredited universities. They are very computer literate and have been taught how to work on the spot market via the computer. I agree with Rolf Penner - he will be growing more wheat next year. So many younger (I mean 50 or under) farmers got out of the business of growing wheat and into canola, mustard seed (mind you, southern Alberta and Sask are not really wheat growing climates/geography) because they did not want to deal with the CWB. Farmers are very independent cusses. At least that is my understanding of the business.

I would think that those that want a Wheat Board can have one and those that choose to not support it, will carry on. What's to argue about?

Well Phil - we subsidize your sore ass be it through medicare, arts grants, university tution etc.

The government even provides subsidies and grants to silly walks like the Gay pride parades.

No Johanne - even us older ones do not support the CWB as it has forced us into extra grain bins and other storage methods (tarps over piles of wheat)

Well Phil - we subsidize your sore ass be it through medicare, arts grants, university tution etc.

Everyone has access to medicare, every one pays for it, only freeloading farmers have access to farm subsidies.
By all means, cut gay pride subsidies, but get your face out of the trough, too, hypocrite.

Johanne I'm 65+ and DO NOT support the CWB.

Removing farm subsidies isn't practical unless it's done on a global level. Canadian farmers already receive less subsidy than their European and American counterparts - removing the subsidies entirely would reduce in an agricultural sector that's completely uncompetitive on the global market. I shouldn't have to explain why that's bad.

No Phil... We do not all pay for that.

The top 10% of taxpayers (not the general population) pay almost 60% of all personal income tax.

I agree that we should end all bailouts (forestry, manufacturing, fishing and farming) but the easy solution is to end the equalization system and let the provinces bailout special interest groups if they want. It would be administered more efficiently and you would see less of if.

I am a third generation farmer, and we got completely out of wheat and anything else touched by CWB because they were causing us to work continually harder and make less money. We switched to crops we can control and sell to whomever we want and have been surviving ever since. I have had friends who grew wheat and went to jail, had their trucks impounded, shipment seized, and held a criminal record because they defied the almighty wheat board. I ask you, "Is that what makes our Canada"?

The top 10% of taxpayers (not the general population) pay almost 60% of all personal income tax.

So what? They also earn 60% of the income. Nor is income the only source of taxation. Everybody pays.

Removing farm subsidies isn't practical unless it's done on a global level.

Bull. According to welfare bum Rolf, all farmers need to compete is emancipation from the shackles of big government, yet in the next breath you want to retain your big government subsidization.

Just be honest and admit it...you're all socialists.

I also am over 65 and wither want the CWB to go or have a dual system.

Pat Martin calling PM Harper's plan to open the system "Stalinist" is rich. It is his party that wants to keep the Stalinist system whereby the farmers have to sell to the government agency and can go to jail if they try to circumvent the monopoly.

Furthermore don't give us the crap about the vote supporting the retention of the CWB. Many of those allowed to vote are not actual farmers and many farmers who quite growing wheat because of the CWB policy are not allowed to vote. Robert makes my point.

Finally Alex says something that makes sense.

Everything that Ken (Kulak) has said above esp. re the hypocrisy of Patty wacky Martin.

My dad will be cheering from Heaven when he sees the death of the CWB. He hated dealing with that corrupt outfit (part of the reason he sold his place in SW Sask.), he gritted his teeth every time he took grain to the elevator. Some big collective outfits in W. Canada have bribed their way into a sweetheart deal with the CWB - this will 'hurt' that ilk of farmer! Hence: The squawk.

"So what? They also earn 60% of the income."

So what? They certainly don't use 60% of the medical resources, or 60% of available classroom spots, or 60% of anything else which taxes are meant to buy. Why should taxes be based on income rather than consumption?

"Bull"

Well, thanks for that insightful refutation, Phil. I'm glad to see you've put so much thought into this.

They certainly don't use 60% of the medical resources, or 60% of available classroom spots, or 60% of anything else which taxes are meant to buy.

Since when is taxation based on one's use of public services?

Well, thanks for that insightful refutation, Phil. I'm glad to see you've put so much thought into this.

You put it out there that welfare bum farmers should always be entitled to their entitlements as long as some other country subsidizes their plough jockeys without giving one reason why that should be so. If it makes sense to kulak you know it's gotta be nonsense.

"Pat Martin calling PM Harper's plan to open the system "Stalinist" is rich."

That was such a bizarre statment.. after hearing his interview thought perhaps I'd unknowingly phased into an alternate universe.

"Since when is taxation based on one's use of public services?"

It's not, and that's the problem. Try reading the whole comment instead of just the bit you quoted.

"You put it out there that welfare bum farmers should always be entitled to their entitlements as long as some other country subsidizes their plough jockeys without giving one reason why that should be so."

I explained that it wasn't practical because it would make it impossible for our farmers to compete on the global market. I assumed that anyone with a 3-digit IQ would understand why this would be a bad thing. If I have overestimated your intelligence, I apologize. I'll explain further:

Farmers who aren't subsidized will be forced to charge higher prices than one who are. Grocery chains and food manufacturers will increase their imports from other nations in order to avoid paying the higher prices. Since the market for local food will decrease, local farms will generate far less profit and will start failing. In the long run, the Canadian agricultural sector will be reduced drastically, or wiped out entirely. This is a 'bad thing' because depending on other nations to supply our food puts us at their mercy, financially, politically, and militarily. It also means that any global food-production crisis will affect us disproportionately, since food-producing nations can simply refuse to export in order to feed their people, while non-producing nations will have no options other than to go to war or starve.

That better? Let me know if you need it dumbed-down any further. I can probably replace some of the multi-syllabic words with their simpler equivalents, if you'd like.

Alex i must say on this issue you seem to be siding with the conservative think? Are you dare i say crossing over?

If so i welcome you however i must warn you we don't like bleeding heart pussies on this side and no matter who you are or where you stand we will hold you accountable period doesn not mater if your left or right we conservatives beleive in responsibility and accountability and self reliance and when the govornment steps in to any thing call a buisness of any kind we over here on the right genrally cringe as we know iti s going to hurt us the tax payer.

Phil the stalinist does not see the forest through the tree's

let me make it clear to you phil you moron.

I don't want public health care i have been to the doctor once a year for the last 2 years but before that is was seven years since i set foot into a docotor's office or hospital or any type of pharmacy ..but yet i still have to pay for chain smoking , fat, drug addict's, high risk life style people (and by high risk i mean that be it sky diving, slolom mountain biking with no helmet , or yes you guessed it homosexual behavior , it to me is all high risk that i say go ahead do what you like just don't make me or aks me to pay for it when it bites you in the ass . and inturn you can laugh in my face when i break my leg as well ...get it ? got it ? good .

health care in not a right dip sh!t it is a privalege yes a privalage becasue the instant you say it is a right you are for enslaving docotor's and nurses no matterh ow nice or giving they are you have no right NONE to force them to FIX you for any reason !!! period.

The wheat board is no different i am not saying to abolish it i am saying get rido f it's monopoly let the people do what they want let them take all of the risk if they so choose and also let them have all fo the reward as well , or let them have little to no risk and have little to no reward as well if that is what they so choose to do .

the govornment does not like self reliant people like me or most farmers becasue we see very little use for govornemnt as a whole , they do serve a purpose for sure but to intervien in someones profitability is just wreckless abuse of the right's afforded to us by god and the magna carta libertante .

Phil your dangerous to yourself and this country please leave as i don't want to pay to have the scissors pulled out of the chest of some innocent person , nor do i want to afford you any chance to speak on a national stage in canada of anykind your not a cnaadian . candians are by far more conservative than the cbc and wheat board would have you beleive!!!

It's frustrating how CWB proponents (and opponents) continually yap about how great (or lousy) a job the CWB is doing. This is irrelevant and also it will never be proven either way to the others' satisfaction. Who gives a crap whether the CWB does a great job for farmers or not? It is simply and absolutely unacceptable for the government to FORCE Western farmers to sell their product to anyone. Even more unacceptable is that such a law should apply only to Western farmers.

Whats good for Eastern farmers for generations will not hurt Western farmers who have not been hobbled by this Government monopoly to keep prices for food cheap in Eastern Canada.
No WCB means an open market. Not a controlled one for only one region (as usual) in this Nation.
I ask if the CWB is so geat why is it not part of Ontario or Quebec?

I think Phil is probably a musician, where he gets a 25,000 grant to record some sorry ass Canadian tripe that slags Jesus, or maybe he is one of the flitting fairies at a stage play that is subsidized by the tax-payers arts grants, or could he be on the first float in the next Toronto pride parade that is subsidized by the govt.s, or could he be an auto worker whose subsidies amounted to 1 million a job last year, or Phil are you that chain smoking dork who plugged the hole in his neck for a drag outside the hospital where my mother lay dying of cancer for over 3 years after living 71 years without touching a cig or a drink, which subsidized moron are you Phil, are you the mining company CEO friend of Paul Martins who handled 800 thoussand bushels of grain through the port of Churchill, all while not owning one grain bin, is that you, or are you one of the morons who built a cabin by the river that is presently flooding while screaming "where is the govt. to help me", yea Phil there are some small subsidies in farming, I got 1200 dollars 3 years ago after I sold calves and cows for a loss of 400 dollars per head for 5 years times 70 head, get out mommys calculator for that one loser.

No mention of costumers here. Is maximizing the returns for a few farmers really the right objective here? This is bazaar.

Bill. If you think this argument is about 'maximizing returns for a few farmers" you really need to get more up to speed.

It's very simple really. If the WB is so beloved it will prosper. If farmers grow more wheat because they can market the product themselves they will prosper. If the WB is a bloated bureaucracy it will die.

Wish the funeral was tomorrow.

Bill, by "costumer" I take it you're talking about the customer that pays the farmer $0.15 for a loaf of bread. Or are you talking about the consumer that pays $1.50 for that loaf of bread?

JR hit the bullseye - this is NOT an issue about revenue or what is better or not better - it is simply unacceptable that a segment of society which is determined solely on geography to be forced to sell their product to a specific buyer. Is there any other producer in other other sector in Canada required to do that? Why just Western Canadian farmers?

That is that discussion that needs to be had otherwise the numbers and stats come out and we all know that stats can be manipulated to say anything at anytime. The message must simply be that no producer should be forced to sell their product to a specific buyer. There is NO sensible response to that message.

I don't think lefty proponents appreciate the depth and intensity of the slow burning outrage against the CWB. To them, it's part of their general anti-market socialist protest mindset. To western farmers it's much more personal. When I first saw the NDP campaign to save it I was pissed, but after thinking it through I'm glad that this is a spot they are choosing to fight. Prepare to be expensively and publicly eviscerated, bitches.

Why should taxes be based on income rather than consumption?

Beats me. Why should taxes be based on consumption rather than income?

it would make it impossible for our farmers to compete on the global market.

You assert that, but offer nothing to back up that assertion, and then you frame your subsequent arguments around that spurious assertion. Some will indeed find it impossible to compete, and would then have to go out and get real jobs. Welcome to the free market.

paul in calgary, you sound positively certifiable. Get help.

no producer should be forced to sell their product to a specific buyer

And by the same token, no producer should have his hand forever in the taxpayers' pocket.

phil see you shrink.

Canadian farmers would survive and prosper without subsidies. Argentina taxes ag exports to the tune of $8billion per year and their industry is growing. If subsidies are removed over regulation and taxes on farmers would also have to go, government would have to shrink, public sector workers would have to have pay and benefit cuts to bring them in line with the private sector, the nanny state would need to be shut down and the Phil's of the world would have to fend for themselves. Sounds good to me.

Western farmers should be free to sell their property to whomever they please. Period.

Perhaps not only should farmers have the choice of whom to sell their own grain to for what price but maybe we should choose who gets food - perhaps cut Phil's ration down because all good socialists know that controlling resources is key to controlling the population.

I'm not in favour of subsidization but if there is one place that is subsidized, I would choose food producers because without them you don't need art or a doctor or an education or anything else for that matter.

We don't need no stinkin' welfare bum farmers.

Patiently waiting for my subsidy cheque. Phil says its coming so it must be true.
In the meantime, it's far more likely that I'll see the end of the CWB sucking money out of my farm first. Even though it's over a year away, the money from selling wheat will be real.

milling durum is 15 bucks in north dakota today.

there is a grain broker here in sask. that says he can get a bid of $15 here in sask today, if the cwb was out of the way.

there is no reason on earth to waite a year to end the monopoly.

i loath the cwb,... about four years ago durum was over $30 and spring wheat was over $20 in north dakota.
that cost me alone over 100 thousand that year.
so don't tell me the cwb works for me.

what a pack of theives.

"You assert that, but offer nothing to back up that assertion, and then you frame your subsequent arguments around that spurious assertion. Some will indeed find it impossible to compete, and would then have to go out and get real jobs. Welcome to the free market."

Foreign governments subsidizing your competition is not a "free market". I suggest you look up that phrase before you attempt to use it.

I would like to have seen Mr. Adler say "that glass of wheat would look neat on my desk, I'll give you a dollar for it". Mr. Penner would answer "I would love to sell it to you but that would be illegal, but you can get it from an Ontario farmer."