Afghanistan: Time to Leave?

I think it's been time to leave for a couple of years at least.

And why the hell are we in Libya?

Afghanistan is a slow but deep bleed of lives and treasure. The govt is too corrupt and the people too backward for this to ever be a success.

I think the fact that 9 years after we first engaged Canada cannot field any more than a brigade, speaks volumes to how serious Canadians are about this conflict.

Star Trek's prime directive. Time for a strategy called containment and everything it entails.

We lose because we choose too.

Petraeus and company have the feedback systems in place to gain, hold and stabilize what is now enemy territory. They cannot do the same for public opinion at home.

That is a failing of our politicians.

And us.

I was in favour of this from the start. Now I see you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.

At one time I thought this war had a positive function. I no longer think so.

I think that we should withdraw because Karzai is corrupt and is using the West to maintain his own power; I don't think that he is doing anything to form this hodge podge of tribes into a nation - and I wonder if it's even possible.

I think that the 'faux nation', as held together by Karzai, should be left to implode on itself..and then, we'll see what kind of society or societies will emerge.

No, it won't be a reduction to Al Qaeda or terrorism - because both activities are parasites. Neither group can economically subsist on its own; they feed off another system. So, remove that other system, and let them implode.

Lets get out of that savage barbaric hellhole. Yeah

You can't change a culture that finds democracy distasteful and has a religion straight out of 610 AD. Get out, all out. But on the way out, slip over to Pak, take the nukes out and leave it all to Allah. Repeat as necessary.

"You can't change a culture that finds democracy distasteful and has a religion straight out of 610 AD."

Yeah, but we're not talking about the vatican. Stay on topic, would ya?

We lose because we choose too.
~Gord Tulk

I was in favour of this from the start.
~a@c

At one time I thought this war had a positive function. I no longer think so.
~ET

Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic just as Iran is and Iraq now is because of us.

Islam and democracy are incompatible.
Learn it, understand it, know it.

Now that we have made TWO (2) new Islamic Republics there is no win to be had.
Our troops over there DO NOT make us safer over here as long as our poiticians allow them to come here and be here.

I used to support the mission. I think that mission was achieved a long time ago. We are never going to civilize them. We are never going to train them to look after themselves because I don't think they really want to. I used to support the mission to train the Afghan army and police, but if that hasn't been accomplished yet it never will be. We win the war against any form of Islam by not letting them immigrate here. They can do whatever they want in their own country, but as long as they don't do it here I don't care any more.

Why are our people in a Land that hates them & vows to destroy us all. While inflicting sharia law on its own citizans. Mean while they kill any others of a diffeent Religion. Mostly there own as well.
A land of barbarians run by phychos.
JMO

Oz: I agree that Islam as you imply (sharia) and democracy are incompatable. But afghanis aren't. Nor are syrians or Thais or Japanese or Germans. We are winning in afstan just as we were in Vietnam and have won in Iraq. But whether we are winning in Illinois or invermere is very much in doubt.

I concur that it is time to leave, and I have a lot of difficulty with why we are in Libya with no clear objective. Europe obtains part of its blood oil from Libya, but we have no business being there to assist them.

If western forces leave Afghanistan now, it'll return it back to the Taliban and embolden Al Qaeda. These people aren't fighting a 5 or 10 year war, they're fighting a war that will span generations. If you would like your kids not to live under sharia, stay in Afghanistan. Otherwise expect that 9/11 was a warm up.

We lose because we choose too.
~Gord Tulk

Bingo. I read somewhere that in Vietnam only 10% of the military presence were actually fighting troops.

I believe our troops are second to none, yet we fail to give them the number and support they would need to do their job to an adequate conclusion.

Imagine for a second what the coverage would be like if today's media was covering WWII or WWI for that matter. I can only imagine the editorial in the Toronto Star by Heather Mallick after the fire bombing of Dresden.

Bear in mind Neville Chamberlain wanted to appease Hitler. The Brits had to bring in Churchill to run the war, then threw him out to continue their slide into unabated socialism.

History just keeps repeating itself.

How about we kill our enemies, and then leave?
Where's courageous leadership when we need it most?
What happened to real Canadians, when were we all replaced with Sheeple?
It's a fuckin' disgrace, that's what it is.
Leave, Stay . . ... whatever.
It doesn't matter anymore - something has to change with us before anything gets better.

A US POV
If the troops on the ground leave Afgan we will
be able to use other options to eliminate the
enemy.. Iran & Pak become prime targets... Keeping troops in the area only limits methods that we now know may be played out.

Why are we in Libya...The UN/EU Arab Spring thing needed Libya to fall to get the domino effect.

The Arab Spring (Democracy) in the US actually has bi-partisan (adult) support. We who talk the the talk must walk the walk...We must support both Jews & Arabs seeking liberty...

What we don't need is US military action in Libya to be determined by the UN/EU worthless turds...Obama will get his ears burnt over Libya..Congress gets answers in 14 days....

JMHO

soooooo now that a conservative blog says time to bug out then now's the time......

hint: google 'sheeple'. you 'sheeple' are such hypocrits.

One problem that will occur as we disengage from Afghanistan is that inevitably we will bring a large number of refugees from there to Canada. While some will be people that probably helped NATO in the war, and for whom a rationale could be made, many will no doubt be the usual type of religious fanatic that will end up a net negative for this country.

It may end up being the most lasting legacy of Canada's involvement in that war - a community of minimally educated, minimally employable, minimally assimilable Afghani who will do as "well" in Canada as the Somali, for example (our legacy of African involvement).

This is one of the many reasons I am firmly opposed to the Libyan involvement as well.

Nation building is a liberal idea. No more justification needed...

Any society that has mass rioting due to a Koran being burnt is beyond salvage by weak rules of engagement and international law.

Ya we could have won, if we had invaded parts of Pakistan, had European support, used water boarding and executed prisoners.

Personally I could care less what Moslem's do to each other. Our policy should be no Moslem Immigration allowed, deport as many as possible. Any that preach Moslem hate strip them of citizenship and deport them like we have done to 90 year old Nazi's. No difference. The Moslem Murder Cult is bombing, beheading and butchering innocent people all over the world 24/7/365. We wouldn't allow Charlie Manson to immigrate to Canada or his followers, we should definately not allow a cult that murders people everday of the year into Canada either.

What's the point of continuing, we're suppose to be eradicating the Islamic Supremacists from Afghanistan whilse our military is being used in Libya to prop them up as the next government. Alquack, Hamas, the Taliban are all arms of the Muslim Brotherhood, the west is supporting that group of bearded fanatics in Libya and Egypt yet we're suppose to believe we can eradicate them in Afghanistan. Bloody hell, we're importing the Hamas mindset into Canada in record numbers, we're surrounded by Religious nutjobs in the West.

We are so stupid to be in Afghanistan/Iraq or Libya...who really gives a rat's ass what happens there...you cannot change a backward, corrupt religious nutcases, a religion that is not a religion, anti democratic bunch of idiots....to think that we lost 150 Canadian boys and spent over $10 billion dollars on Afghanistan is insanity.

Set up one large base in Afghanistan, pay your informants well to supply information on any terrorists plots in the future, and bomb them at will....destroy the infrastructure of the country so that their lives are miserable and they keep fighting among each other...that is how you can keep them from sneaking over here to do mischief...now that wont cost Canadian lives and it sure as heck won't cause billions of my taxpaying dollars....a Muslim cannot be trusted...just read their so called holy book...

Afganistan is another typical Western effort at platitudes and lack of focus. Yes, eradicate the Taliban and el-Quida training camps. To effect anything more than that requires a massive troop deployment that will secure the area to allow a society to rebuild.

It does came down to economics. Afgans have to feed their families and life is meager at best. Teaching democracy means didly when there is no economy to provide a living. Best case sceanario all this works. Where does the crew move to next? Yemen? That is where many of the terrorist have moved to. Bottom line is that Afganistan has never seen this much money and activity before. For some it is a gift horse that hopefully doesn't end.

As most posters are saying. Why are we in Libya? This is a Euro theatre and they should pull their own weight for a change. When world commerce defaults are we sending troops to Euroland to quell the food riots?

Afghanistan war is a UN mission - time for the other members of the mission to step up to the plate. Canada has contributed above and beyond our vote weight. Bring our soldiers home, PMSH.

What RFB said...with a few exclamation marks.

...take a real good look at Holland, my birth country among other European nations that are saddled with massive muslim immigration/refugees that simply have no desire whatsoever in assimilation of any kind while rabidly preaching hatred and undermining anything "Western". (are you listening |Jason Kenney..???).

As Geert has said in the past: Islam is a cult of violence..nothing more.

I for one, do not want to see Canada in the same position.

And as sudch, yes, it IS time to leave. Let them continue to live in the stone age..just keep a few dozen armed predators on task.

Funny,but this became apparent to many of us three years ago, but when we voiced our opinions,we were excoriated as "quitter,losers,cowards,lefties",etc.

Maybe some of us here are experiencing their own intellectual version of the mythical "Arab Spring", as it becomes obvious we,the West,can't fix every problem in the world. And we don't owe it to anyone to try.

Let's get the hell out of Libya too,and let the ME citizens choose their own form of government,their own "strongman". Ron Paul was right.

If it turns out to be a Democracy, so much the better, but many experts,including Israeli intelligence,aren't banking on it.

Sounds like it almost unanimous. However make sure to keep a good supply of covert types on the ground in various places working with some locals to keep an eye on those that would harm us and keep a good supply of drones and cruise missiles handy to take care of business.

CanuckInMI

I thought that as well until I noticed the 5th column of colonists that now infest Canada to bring about Sharia law here. A Muslim invasion under cover of immigration.It makes no never mind to fight in a foreign land while at home the same group has been allowed to kill free speech & any criticism of Islam. Have honor killings , rape Women with impunity, get 10 million for lies. Where the Tent while not integrating, indeed trying to force their belifs on us! They already won, just from multiculturalism with kangaroo Human rights courts. So bring our guys home. We will need them home to fight in the short future.
By fighting this war we have imported the Problem. The Koran believes that is more a political script for conquest than a Religion.

What Gord Tulk said: "We lose because we choose too. "
In Iraq everybody claimed US is loosing, but they didn't, did they? Same with Canada in Afghanistan.

Oh, and btw what is that "real opener" ? Do you think in Iraq it was different? That in Pakistan Tehreek i Taliban does not attack their army? What is so surprising in the fact that militants infiltrate and attack? Surprise, my foot!

I was also for this war at the beginning. We sent our fighting soldiers over there to win; I thought. My mistake; the same mistakes as Korea, Vietnam, etc.
If you send your army to do a job the first rule is you must go for absolute victory. No "police action"; no Peace Keeping; Absolute Victory. Otherwise don't send them.

Gunney99, Amen to that!

If victory is defined as temporarily driving back the Taliban, then we have won and now it's time to leave. If winning the hearts and minds of the residents is victory then you are talking about a century or more of colonial rule involving not only building schools and bridges but changing what is taught in those schools. Unless we are to convert the retrograde Islamic wastelands to anything but Islam, forget rule of law, liberty and democracy. We have enough trouble trying to maintain that inheritance at home.

The only ME strategy and involvement that makes any sense is to ensure there is plenty of ordnance to resupply Israel this coming fall.