Doctor Says Greyhound Beheading Guy Deserves Expanded Privileges

If he is that much of a model prisoner and understands exactly what it is he did that is against the law and so reprehensible, he should have no problem understanding why he should never see the light of day outside of the confines of the prison he is or should be in!!!

Release him to the care of his doctor(s) where he can further learn to deal with his illness in the care of those doctor's families.

Probably a great neighbor until he goes off his meds.

Or ship him to San Francisco where giving head is normal.

Incarserate the friggin doctor!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychiatry is not a science.

Li's last reported hallucination occurred five months ago but was quickly managed by him.

Great, just perfect.
This is why psychiatry isn't a science.
Is Li Kremer's subject or is Kremer Li's subject?

Oh Kate..what could possibly go wrong? I have a list.

Years ago I investigated probably one of the two most gruesome murders I had ever experienced.

The murderer's name was Christian Kjeldson. One of the most personable, likable persons one could ever meet. Someone who most people would love as a friend. And one of the most dangerous persons alive, at least to women. A classic, text-book type psychopath.

Before I encountered him, he had been before the courts three times previously, two attempt murders, one murder, each committed against women he did not even know.

And on each of those three occasions, a psychiatrist in Calgary, who was such a fixture in Calgary courts that we police officers referred to him as "have degree, will testify" testified that Kjeldson was mentally incapable of realizing iht impact of his crimes. And each time, he was declared not criminally responsible, and sent to a mental facility in Edmonton.

Heh. The day he walked away from the facility, I was on radio stating that he posed a serious and immediate risk to the public. At precisely the same time, unknown to me, Alberta's Solicitor General, being questioned by the press, stated that he would not have been in such a facility if he presented a risk to the public; ergo, he was not a risk.

Shortly thereafter, I was questioned by the press about her comments, and I said that she was an idiot and didn't know what she was talking about.

That MAY have ended any chances I had for a political career.

Within about 12 hours, Kjeldson had kidnapped a female cab driver fom Calgary, Glenda Ferster, and had systematically subjected that poor woman to hours of the most brutal torture that I had ever seen. For her, death was clearly a relief.

Within another 24 hours, we had him in custody. In my interview with him, I asked him why he had done it. He looked up at me, smiled, and said "Because that is what I do". Chilling.

It was apparent that the Alberta courts had enough of him. The same shrink testified, but the presiding judge had clearly had enough of him, sentence was life, in prison this time. Hopefully, he is still there.

It is my understanding that we have no laws covering "criminal insanity". The thinking is that if the criminal is not knowingly responsible he/she cannot be held responsible. And according to the Law by Saint Pierre, rehabilitation is always possible (ie: leopards do change their spots).
Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the Criminal Code could respond.

what Bruce was talking about

http://www.taxi-library.org/canada/1-f01.htm

Psychiatry

Is nothing but witchcraft, desguised as a science.
Incantations & drugs . A degraded councel presided over by men as mad as their patients.
Justice peverted by Eltists with nocincience with less brains than a gnat.
JMO

This has no, no, no, written all over it.

I have tremendous insight into his mental condition also, and this is why I don't take the window seat.

I'm pissed at how much it cost we taxpayers.

Ergo I'm also with Gordon Tulk, release him to the care of the Doctors children.

I haven't hallucinated in, like, a year, minimum. And I've never killed or eaten human flesh. What do I get?

Seriously, Bruce, this probably sounds frivolous, and I do vaguely realize life isn't a movie and stuff, but what you wrote vividly reminded me of the opening for No Country for Old Men @0:56 - 1:31 (when the Cohen brothers are good, they're very very good; same with Cormac McCarthy).

Mamba:

I am not quite sure what your point was, but tht's OK. And I must say I did not get the reference to eating human flesh, but that is OK as well.

I will admit that did not see the movie. But the clip you provided had visuals that were stunning, in terms of the beauty of the countryside.

I'll make a point of watching the film.

Misguided "compassion."

Let the doctors and their families give Li hospitality and monitor his progress. As someone else pointed out, Li's charming until he forgets to take his meds.

Bruce, Li not only beheaded Tim McLean, he cannibalized him in full view of police officers outside the bus who refused to intervene.

IMO, those police officers should have been severely disciplined. Sadly, I have no confidence in the police anymore: They're highly paid, highly unionized, highly pc-indoctrinated civil (sic) servants now. (I often wonder if they let Li alone to cannibalize his victim because Li is a member of a visible minority ...)

From the comment section of the Winnipeg Free Press

'We will no longer accept comments on this story as submissions have been consistently unacceptable.'

Why?

Li's last reported hallucination occurred five months ago but was quickly managed by him.

That is an intriguing remark. What is meant by managing a hallucination?
Did he dispatch it to the other side?
Did he find something for the hallucination to do?

From the comment section of the Winnipeg Free Press

'We will no longer accept comments on this story as submissions have been consistently unacceptable.'

Why?

Because they disagreed with the position of the commenters.

The punishment should fit the crime. In the case Bruce mentioned, "have degree, will testify" should have had been given implants and been made the monster's cell-mate for a period of a month.

And in support of Gord Tulk's comments, I've always thought that halfway houses should be in the same neighbourhood (ideally the same block) as the members of the parole board. There should be slightly more risk to their family than there is to the general public, so they'll understand what we mean when we say "are you sure about that? they're safe to live around?"

I would reduce the budget of the police detachment that did nothing when a single bullet would have solved the problem. Take the total costs of Li's enhanced security, court costs, etc and deduct it from that police detachments budget and let it be widely known why it is being done.

Bruce, the problem with psychopaths is that they're model patients and they seem completely normal. They're appropriately apologetic, demonstrate "insight" into their condition and psychiatrists are very easily fooled by them. Doctors aren't supposed to take into account such minor non-medical items such as the patient having repeatedly killed women in the past. My personal opinion is that such an individual should have been executed after his first murder and that only psychiatrists who have received special training should be allowed to deal with criminal psychopaths.

Expanded privileges? Would that include a free bus pass?

seriously, who in his right mind would ever want this guy sitting next to them again?

i'm in the hang em high section.

This is typical of the fantasyland that justice in this country has become. The ordinary people of this country may need an 'arab spring' to take back this country from the elite who are destroying it.

He shouldn't see the light of day again, there is no way to ensure he won't go off his meds and kill again that's why he should be locked up for a lifetime. Mental Illness should not be used as a defense so danagerous offenders to walk amongst us.

The only hope is for a few of his doctors and lawyers heads to roll over this POS's "treatment".

A lawyer friend of mine said it used to be that you'd institutionalize the mentalily ill criminal (aka incarcerate) until he is no longer unfit to stand trial, then try and punish for the crime. I like that, we'll help you get better but you're still responsible. In this case, if the bugger is now 'better', now try him for murder.

The Winnipeg Not-So-Free Press.

We just went through this here on the wet coast. A freak, schoenborn murdered his three children to get at his estranged wife, he ran., was captured after a manhunt and found not guilty by reason of insanity. despite apparent lucidity.
Three years go by and the psychiatry wonks pronounce him sane and free to take day trips into the local village, were his ex-wife lives. only massive public disapproval derailed this one.It is unfortunately the only thing these elitist idiots in the mental health industry understand.
Physiatrists are only acting in their own best interests by pretending they can "cure" extremely deranged people.they need to justify their non scientific fluffy "profession"They should be forced to carry malpractice insurance and be subject to claims by all the peoples they harm including patients,.
unfortunately we are all guinea pigs in this grand experiment.

And only the high profile cases get this level of attention.

I've also wondered why psych professionals get a pass when they get people killed. They should at least lose their credentials. BTW it's not getting any better.. university psych courses are big and packed.

I love Kate's opening statement. "What could possibly go wrong?"

One of my old neighbours who retired in Saskatchewan and who has now passed away was a prison guard at BC's renowned Oakalla Federal Prison near Burnaby. He had worked there from 1954 until 1980. It closed in 1991.

I don't know how often he repeated this. "All of our justice problems began when we let the shrinks decide the future of prisoners." (About 1965.)

Wake up people. This is likley the most horrendous murder in Western Canada's history and we're letting him go because we think the pills might work! God help us!

Depends on what they mean by "Expanded".

The only acceptable "Expanded Privileges" to me would be:

1) To Expand his neck vertebrae. Or;

2)To Expand his walks in the institution to include a stop at the reservation where his victim was from. With several days lead up notice so all the band members were aware that a dangerous offender was in the area. For their own safety of course.

WFP Update: "We will no longer accept comments on this story as submissions have been consistently unacceptable."

Not that it is unacceptable to give this murderer more privileges.

"He described Li as a "model patient" who has shown tremendous insight into his mental illness"

That would make him an idea candidate for a seat in the NDP side of the House of Parliament.

If the Kjeldson murderer (the one Bruce refers to at1:22a.m.) was sentenced to 25 years in 1977, does this mean that he is out now??!!

It's high time that we recognize that certain forms of mental illness are terminal, and take steps to bring about that outcome.

You folks are naive like pansies because you still believe that legal and law enforcement systems exists to serve and protect.

Well, no, they are institutionalized racket serving only their own need - ever increasing their budget, benefits and pensions. And playing with more and more expensive and fun toys (that's how they went from 38 calibre revolver to machine guns, armored vehicles, NV and heat cameras and spy planes).

Good luck to you all.

Attention: the justice system does not exist to serve your sentimental whims and convictions. If this guy can be proven to be safe, then a gradual reintegration process is in order. No need to wet yourselves.

I nominate the house next to yours then libertariansaresmarmier.

@libertarians . . ."If this guy can be proven safe . . ." Aye, but there's the rub. In a controlled environment, with overseers he remains on his meds and says just what they want to hear. In my experience, folks with this illness hardly ever stay on their meds for long. The simple fact is, he can never be proven safe.

He should get "expanded privileges" when Tim McLean gets them.

We have no shortage of kooks running around our cities thanks to the psychiatric industry.

Just take a look at this guy in Vancouver yesterday:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/05/30/bc-vancouver-police-shooting.html

Bruce @5:43 - Li is meant to have cannibalized McLean, as batb explained. I didn't mention that in response to what you wrote; I just found that little detail a bit lurid.

In the voiceover the sheriff played by Tommy Lee Jones recounts questioning a killer on his way to the electric chair who said that he'd always known he was going to murder someone, and if they let him out he'd just do it again. "Said he knew he was going to hell, be there in about 15 minutes." It reminded me of what you wrote about Kjeldson @1:22 - 'In my interview with him, I asked him why he had done it. He looked up at me, smiled, and said "Because that is what I do". Chilling.'

(FWIW my view is still that if Li really was profoundly schizophrenic at the time of the murder then he he is not criminally responsible, and I guess technically it isn't a "murder". But toying with the idea of taking him out of anything but maximum lock-up is just absolutely insane. It would have been better for everyone if the cops had shot to kill when he refused to surrender on their arrival. Like many on this thread, I haven't got a particularly high opinion of shrinks.)

Psychiatry is highly subjective, 3 psychiatric examinations will often produce 3 different diagnosis.

Psychiatrists are no longer necessary given that functional MRI's accurately diagnose sociopathology/psychopathology and can determine whether or not brain damage is present and where the damage is located in the brain. We now know that damage to certain areas of the brain has predictable behavioral outcomes. Why aren't these scans a mandatory part of the psychiatric assessment? Scans are accurate and non-subjective unlike a Rorschach test (ink blot).

Li literally needs his head examined, and we have the technology to do just that - it should be used. Brain damage is forever.

Then again, the legal system could use confirmed brain damage to excuse responsibility for violent crimes, but at least a diagnosis obtained this way would eliminate cured - no longer a danger loopholes.

Somebody get a rope.

Just left a large comment over at Blazing Cat Fur on this subject. Funny Li should come up today.

IMHO, that short of his next intended victim capping Mr. Lee, about the only thing that would reduce his possibility of killing again would be to jail his DOCTOR if he does.

If all the guys who sign off on letting violent offenders out are held legally responsible for said offender's subsequent behavior, we'll see a lot less of these types of killers released from hospital.

Let's face it, I'm legally responsible if my dog craps on some guy's lawn, right?

If a bartender can be held responsible for some drunk plowing his car into someone then why can't the same standards be applied to doctor feel good.

H. Ryan, that's right. I'd forgotten about that.

I guess the answer is the hospital guy is paid by the gubmint, and therefore blameless, just because.

For starters geld him. Then make his meds a time dose implant. Anyone not competent to stand trail on insanity should never be let back out.

We need a gulag to send them to.

How did this mentally ill maniac get into the country?

I've been paying a lot more attention to Thomas Szasz , the legendary anti-psychiatry psychiatrist who has a regular column in The Freeman, the monthly organ of the FEE (Foundation for Economic Education).

Szasz first presented his
attack on "mental illness" as a legal term in 1958 in the Columbia Law Review. In his article he argued that mental illness was no more a fact bearing on a suspect's guilt than is possession by the devil.