120 Replies to “Your Lying Eyes”

  1. And I guess you missed Sarah Palin suggesting that instead of relying on the US Constitution, the US should rely on the Bible for governance.

  2. “Ok, but it has absolutely no bearing on the individual rights of American citizens to purchase property and do what the please with it so long as it is within the law.”
    Nobody is talking about RIGHTs here except you BTJ. DO YOU FCKING UNDERSTAND?

  3. No, BTJ, you would be content in cowing to bullies. Building the mosque has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion (or any freedom, for that matter). It is all about Islamic triumphalism. That can’t be said enough. If the mosque was to be built elsewhere, no one would be saying anything.
    Muslims are as perfectly happy to live under Western laws and customs as they are never extending the same courtesy to others. They throw money at Westerners who come into their countries to do the work they CAN’T do but will never allow them freedom of worship or congress. THEY are the hypocrites.

  4. “A talk on what’s decent and considerate is inherently subjective…so really there’s no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.”
    Exactly, so quit being so obtuse!

  6. “My position, again, is that I think it’s classless to wish to build such a mosque in THIS location.”
    And you have every right to do so.
    “I do advocate the people that wish to build the mosque there to reconsider building it there, respecting the wishes of their neighbors.Not because they are forced to, but because it’s the classy (and right) thing to do.”
    And they have every right to tell you to go get bent. I’m not sure how you feel you’ve managed to correlate ‘classy’ with ‘right’, although it is evident from the parentheses you put around it that you were not confident in doing so.
    “do you see how deciding to build the mosque elsewhere would be a very gracious thing to do?”
    Are we to do things based on what’s ‘gracious’ for others? Are you suggesting we live for others? Are you suggesting we disagree with Ayn Rand, and instead take on the philosophy of Jim Taggart?
    “PS I’m taking you at your word that you are not DA”
    For the love of god, I’m not DA. Drop the paranoid conspiracy theory already.

  7. “Building the mosque has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion (or any freedom, for that matter). ”
    Whether or not you think they should bow to the whims of the collective majority has everything to do with personal, individual freedom.
    “If the mosque was to be built elsewhere, no one would be saying anything.”
    No? Except for in California, Wisconsin, Tennessee, or Connecticut right? But other than THOSE places it’s ok…you really should keep up with current events if you’re to get into a discussion.
    “”A talk on what’s decent and considerate is inherently subjective…so really there’s no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.”
    Exactly, so quit being so obtuse!”
    I’m sorry, how am I being obtuse…you’re the one who claimed that your opinion on the matter was ‘right’.

  8. Here’s a thought. Sorry if it is a bit OT, but it could happen with King Barry and his merry misfits;
    Say Israel decides to attack Iran, and the US decides it must intercept and destroy the Israeli attack planes, but the Israelis easily shoot down several of the US attackers and still successfully bomb Iran? What would show up in the news?
    The Israeli version of the F15 is arguably the best in the air. Not to mention all of the other goodies Israel has bought and upgraded.

  9. BTJ said: And they have every right to tell you to go get bent
    This is a completely accurate statement. But that’s not at issue here.
    Muslims have “the right”; but IS it right, decent, and sensitive? This is a moral question, based entirely on cultural norms, and not law, hence it comes down to opinion and emotion.
    The beauty of it is, that Obama, with his bending over to Muslims, has now utterly and completely destroyed his presidency and is taking down the progressive elite with him … it’s not a matter of rights, but a matter of opinion and cultural norms and sensitivities.
    Gallup today issued a result that gives the Republicans their highest score in a generic poll question, Republican versus Democrat … the score was the highest of all time, dating back to the 40’s.
    So, in a world where opinions matter, sensitivities matter, and cultural norms matter, progressives have now set themselves up against the majority of Americans. And, keep in mind, that the Gallup result was pre-Obama condoning the Ground Zero Victory Shrine.
    So BTJ, you are correct that Muslims have the “right” to build the Shrine unless laws are passed that state otherwise. But, that doesn’t mean that the Shrine won’t be insensitive, intolerant, and a grotesque edifice to Islamic supremacism.
    If you don’t find the Shrine insensitive, intolerant, and a grotesque edifice to Islamic supremacism … good for you, you are entitled to your opinion.

  10. Cjunk wrote that I was —
    “completely AND thoroughly wrong” also & “historically AND factually”
    When you make these little rhetorical flourishes, you should keep in mind what the words mean.
    You clearly don’t know what ideology is.
    But since most of your answer, such as it is, deals with the “totalitarian tendancies” bit of what I wrote —
    Are you saying that Christianity doesn’t have totalitarian tendancies?
    Have you ever heard the phrase “Outside the church there is no salvation”?
    You wrote
    //Christianity came into being under the Roman Empire & Rome allowed freedom of religion, as long as it did not contravene Roman law //
    You are not entirely wrong here. But during this period Rome had many gods. Once christianity became the state religion, things changed.
    Ask the Jews. [never mind other versions of christianity]
    Jefferson put this very well in a letter to a jewish notable —
    “Your sect by its sufferings has furnished a remarkable proof of the universal spirit of religious intolerance inherent in every sect, disclaimed by all while feeble, and practiced by all when in power. Our laws have applied the only antidote to this vice, protecting our religious, as they do our civil rights, by putting all on an equal footing.”
    That’s why religious freedom [& property rights, another aspect of American ideology] is invoked by people defending the right to build Park51.
    And if you think there aren’t totalitarian tendancies present in modern christianity, clock this —
    // I think we should kind of keep this clean, keep it simple, go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant.
    They’re quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 Commandments. //
    S Palin
    BTJ Thanks.

  11. dizzy: You are confusing the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire. You are also mixing the Holy Roman Empire’s “behavior” and laws, with Christian foundational texts. Apples … Guano. Foundational texts … state behavior.

  12. Obama’s Manhattan Project. Only the mushroom cloud with be over the Dem party this November.
    Useful idiocy defined.

  13. BTJ
    Good, you understand.
    “Are we to do things based on what’s ‘gracious’ for others? Are you suggesting we live for others?”
    No, I’m suggesting we consider others.
    The problem, as I see it, is you are too pompous to give a respectful response to the issues people actually have with the mosque, because you don’t believe they are valid concerns. You can extrapolate this to those that wish to build the mosque, and most people on the Left regarding most issues. We see it with AGW, immigration and every other issue. As far as the Left is concerned, on every issue, not only is the Right wrong, their concerns/arguments are not even worthy of a respectful response. Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong, but what’s not in question, is that I and others have had to wait two days for you to say: “A talk on what’s decent and considerate is inherently subjective…so really there’s no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.” On this we can agree, or disagree, but at least we’re talking about the same thing. All of your dancing around and wasting peoples time is very disrespectful of others; regardless of your political stripes. But I guess that’s just my opinion, right? Actually, even that isn’t so considering that most people (because most people do believe in God) do believe that right and wrong is NOT SUBJECTIVE but it’s actually quite clearly defined. So for the sake of discussion, most reasonable people CAN agree on what is right and wrong. The ONLY people that have a problem with right and wrong are atheists and agnostics(which I’m one)- in other words, the Left.
    regarding the rest of your post, a few quick answers:
    “I’m not sure how you feel you’ve managed to correlate ‘classy’ with ‘right’, although it is evident from the parentheses you put around it that you were not confident in doing so.”
    Classy is always “right”. You can’t have class, or be classy if you are doing something that is “wrong”.
    Also, don’t read too much into my grammar. I’m working on it!
    “Are you suggesting we disagree with Ayn Rand, and instead take on the philosophy of Jim Taggart?”
    Nope, it’s a personal choice to be considerate of others. I doubt Ayn would object.
    “Drop the paranoid conspiracy theory already.”
    I’ve got no such theory; but, I don’t want to get hoodwinked by some ahole just in case. If you read the previous thread, it is very difficult to discern the two opinions. It’s very difficult for those on the Right to understand why almost every Left thinker, on every issue, exhibits the same disrespect to those they argue with. Likely, it’s rooted in Secular arrogance. Hopefully this helps explain why people would confuse you, DA and every other Left minded commenter.

  14. Then, BTJ, tell me why- of all places- would they choose to build a mosque on the place where nineteen adherents killed thousands of people?
    Where is your support for the Greek Orthodox church destroyed by these same nineteen adherents of a rotten cult?
    Your whole point is solely to be contradictory.
    Is there no salvation outside of Christ? A theological point outside of the law. Also know that Christianity does not execute its apostates. Read the parable of the prodigal son.

  15. Ken (Kulak) @6:17
    That’s friggin’ scary.
    Home grown terrorists in the making….

  16. “The beauty of it is, that Obama, with his bending over to Muslims,”
    Is he to deny them their constitutional right then? I’m not real sure what you’re getting at with this ‘moral’ discussion?
    “If you don’t find the Shrine insensitive, intolerant, and a grotesque edifice to Islamic supremacism … good for you, you are entitled to your opinion.”
    No, I don’t…I also think that people are responsible for their own responses to the world around them and so you have a choice whether or not to re-enforce your own response by choosing to focus on the potential ills of any situation.
    Dizzy:
    “Jefferson put this very well in a letter to a jewish notable”
    GREAT quote!
    Cjunk: your lack of response speaks volumes.
    Indiana:
    “No, I’m suggesting we consider others.”
    You’re suggesting we not only consider them, but guide our own decisions based on those considerations….in other words bowing to the collective majority. I’ve noted that you refuse to approach this issue, of placing the collective before the individual.
    “The problem, as I see it, is you are too pompous to give a respectful response to the issues people actually have with the mosque”
    THAT’S the issue? How does me standing up for individual freedoms and rights, as well as being weary of bowing to the collective not respecting conservative philosophy? And how are you respecting conservative philosophy by insinuating that the individual should do as the collective majority demands?
    “I and others have had to wait two days for you to say: “A talk on what’s decent and considerate is inherently subjective…so really there’s no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.””
    You didn’t, you could have read it in all the other posts, though I didn’t directly express it in those words. You can have a discussion on ‘decency and considerations’ and you can have a discussion on ‘what should be done under the rules and governance of the US’…but you can’t mix the two as you seem to propose. The former will come to no objective answer, while the latter supports a useful and productive discussion which can quite easily be objectively decided.
    “All of your dancing around and wasting peoples time is very disrespectful of others”
    Again, that’s your opinion, and it’s subjective…we can’t have an objective discussion based on what you feel is ‘disrespectful of others’. I’ve done my best to observe individual rights and freedoms as it pertains to the issue.
    “Actually, even that isn’t so considering that most people (because most people do believe in God) do believe that right and wrong is NOT SUBJECTIVE but it’s actually quite clearly defined”
    It is you that can’t stick to your story…it’s either SUBJECTIVE or it’s OBJECTIVE..pick one and stick to it, please.
    I see here you’ve once again proposed that the collective majority decide personal rights and freedoms…what can be objectively decided as right or wrong is in the US constitution…not in the minds of the collective majority. In fact the collective majority is not something that can, by definition, be objective as it is subject to change.
    “So for the sake of discussion, most reasonable people CAN agree on what is right and wrong.”
    So the collective majority should decide my ‘rights’ and ‘wrongs’ then? Is that correct Jim Taggart?
    “Classy is always “right”. You can’t have class, or be classy if you are doing something that is “wrong”.”
    Really? Classy = ‘right’…that’s got to be one of the simplest, most vapid statements I’ve read here to date. I’d love to see a philosophy based on that premise…that would truly be a sign that this world has gone to sh1t.
    “Nope, it’s a personal choice to be considerate of others. I doubt Ayn would object. ”
    I KNOW she would object…its written over and again in her works.
    “If you read the previous thread, it is very difficult to discern the two opinions. ”
    And same could be said about the opinion that echos through this place, voiced by most posters. What the logical thing to consider would be the improbability, and in fact the impossibility, that DA and I are the same poster. Did you not see how much writing he and I accounted for? I’ll take it as a compliment though, that you give me enough credit to consider that I could have accounted for all that work.
    OK:
    “tell me why- of all places- would they choose to build a mosque on the place where nineteen adherents killed thousands of people?”
    What am I, some kind of psychic? You’ll have to ask the people themselves.
    “Where is your support for the Greek Orthodox church destroyed by these same nineteen adherents of a rotten cult?”
    I don’t support any church or organized religion. Individual rights, yes.
    “Is there no salvation outside of Christ?”
    There is salvation where ever your being finds it. Whether that’s in a church, in nature, on top of a skyscraper looking down on the city…what and where ever you find it.

  17. In regards to BJT arguments. Here is a assignment. First go to Utah and in the middle of town light a copy of the Book of Mormon on fire and then report results.
    Next go to Saudi Arabia – I am sure SDA can take up a collection to help with travel expenses – and light the Koran on fire and then report results. As for Saudi if all does not go well where do you want the body parts buried.
    Trying to defend this is like trying to defend socialism, it leave you sounding small and silly.

  18. I’m not particularly superstitious, nor am I any kind to put too much credence to ghost stories.
    But I have to believe that while the tower was burning and some of those victims awaited death, their had to be some of them that vowed that their soul not go to eternal rest while radical islam still existed.
    Then again it could have the dubious honour of being the only mosque haunted by the dead victims of 9-11.

  19. “First go to Utah and in the middle of town light a copy of the Book of Mormon on fire and then report results. ”
    And that would accomplish what in respect to this discussion?
    The only thing bringing Mormonism into this discussion accomplishes is support for my argument. Mormons have been given every right granted under the law despite their questionable religious practices…in fact Mormons have been allowed to break laws that your everyday citizens are not. Yet I don’t see anybody up in arms over it.
    “Next go to Saudi Arabia”
    Please, stay on task…we are discussing an issue of AMERICAN CITIZENS IN AMERICA.
    “it leave you sounding small and silly. ”
    Right, and typing three sentences, one of which does not apply to the discussion, as a response doesn’t?

  20. BTJ said: Please, stay on task… we are discussing an issue of AMERICAN CITIZENS IN AMERICA.
    Actually we aren’t, the original post covers a wider spectrum of concepts.

  21. BTJ,
    How much do they pay you to post hundreds of leftist comments a day on a right-wing site?
    I once tried to discuss issues with leftists on their own leftist site but it was useless.
    Calling me names and using the F word was mostly what they posted as replies to my comments.
    oh yeah and they used urban legends as fatcs…
    You’d have to pay me to spend all day on a leftist site.
    So how much do they pay you?

  22. BTJ:
    Remember our discussion about the separation of church and state?
    In that vein, what is your opinion of New York governor Patterson offering state land to build a mosque? In a different location.
    Or, the mosque’s imam sponsored by the US administration for a trip to the MIddle East.

  23. @ ET = If you’re still around that is 😀
    I think you’re mistaken about democracy. Just because modern western democracy grew out of a strengthened middle class doesn’t mean that that is what will happen elsewhere. It’s a simple matter for American trained graduates to go home and start implementing similar ideas in their own countries that does not have the history that it ought to have to support it. Just look at India they have horrendous poverty but is always hailed as “the worlds largest democracy”. Just as Lenin brought “socialism” to an uncapitalistic horribly backwards agrarian Russia, democracy can just be implanted by any politico with delusions of grandeur. You yourself conceded in the first post that it was the, I dare say, Wolfowitz vision of democratic expansion that was pushed onto Iraq. It’s not a natural development to them, and quite honestly, it probably would never be natural to them. I think you’re overly optimistic in the power of individuality and democracy to transfigure the person.
    There has always been an underlying cynicism with regards to democracy anyways the fear that it degenerates into mob rule. How many people actually made voting decisions rationally? Especially in Canada where there is this obscene party loyalty to the liberals and as a result also to the conservatives. How many people voted against Harper because of his Lego-man haircut? You can’t expect Reason to come down on the secular Pentecost and graze the foreheads of muslims everywhere with a differential equation and expect them to be like us.
    An intelligent muslim can reason that the world ought to be part of the Umma and we all should be put to the sword. Hell a lot of far left Americans, some of whom are “enlightened” and “driven by Reason”, have had similar criticisms of our society and modernity. What is the notion of human rights and equality rights but an fanciful modern contrivance and dogma that stems from the ramblings of all those idiotic Christians who say that “we are all equal before the Lord?”
    I wouldn’t so quickly dismiss them as the unreasoned unintelligent barbarian horde. I mean they have so astutely deduced our weaknesses and also have masterfully exploited them. Terrorists aren’t the only threat we face. Just look at all the clerics converting people to their cause undermining us from within. Look at how CAIR and the CIC have gotten governments and people and the media to so obsequiously hail them as “moderates”. Look at how Hamas has transformed the public opinion of Israel. Hell, the Europeans have forgotten the horrors of the 1940s and are ready to throw the Jew back into the kiln.
    I honestly just don’t think that a ballot and a book will do anything to turn the tide of this conflict or to ultimately save us.
    Also, I think you mistook what I said as well. There are only a very very tiny population of moderate muslims who are reasonably versed enough in its history and theology to suggest its reform. The thing is is that Islam isn’t really a revolution in theology like Christianity was to Judaism. So much of it was the glory of Mohammedan conquest and the necessary doctrines to keep those gains. It’s really hard to “kinda sort of” believe that all people were born muslim and that their lapsing (or ignorance) is already an active act of rejection and apostasy. Or that all the lands in the world should be brought under the shadow of Mecca. I honestly don’t believe that the “moderates” are out there in any sizeable number. It’s probably just another modern day “statistic” that is overplayed and exaggerated. I’m pretty sure some hotshot trial lawyer won’t go to bat for that minority.

  24. “Actually we aren’t, the original post covers a wider spectrum of concepts.”
    ACTUALLY, Ford Perfect referred to:
    “In regards to BJT arguments.”
    In addition, the majority of the posts are focused on Islam IN AMERICA, and the construction of the Mosque BY AMERICAN CITIZENS IN AMERICA.
    But nice try.

  25. “In that vein, what is your opinion of New York governor Patterson offering state land to build a mosque? In a different location.”
    In the vein of the separation of church and state, the governor should not get involved in such actions. Which I assume you will find complies with my main argument. Let individuals be individuals and assume their personal rights and freedoms under the US constitution. That is all government should be doing.
    “the mosque’s imam sponsored by the US administration for a trip to the MIddle East.”
    Link for clarification purposes please? Since it is somewhat of a random specific issue you’ve brought into play.

  26. Rubbish, BTJ. You are a coward. You are a troublemaker. If you cared about individual rights, you would be sensitive to people who escaped with their very lives from the towers and the relatives of those who died. Instead, you are here to be- as I said before- contradictory. I have yet to see you run up the flagpole for the Greek orthodox church.

  27. ‘Remember “new”? When I detect (it takes only a glance) the idiocy of a certain, similar poster’s remarks here, my eyes glaze over and I go on to the next comment–immediately.

  28. You are right Osumashi,
    BTJ is a trouble maker and is only here to be contradictory, that is why I think he is paid to do it by some sick leftist organisation.
    Pretty much every right-wing site has one of them and they all operate the exact same way as if they had been trained for it, you know like community organisers…
    Strangely they are all free in daytime, all have the energy to posts hundreds of posts a day, and all share the axact same opinions, and all use the exact same methods to annoy and try and discourage right-wing people.
    It does not seem a natural phenomenom at all to me.
    the similarities are too numerous.
    this is an organised effort by some sick leftist group.
    Those people are trained and paid to do this.
    I’d bet money on it.

  29. Would it not be a good thing to ignore trolls?
    The Glengarrian, right and it sure shook her up, so much so that she did not know what to say. There appear to be some that have no problem with this.

  30. I used to go to a North Dakota right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I used to go to an Arizona right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I used to go to a California right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I used to go to a Oregon right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I used to go to an Ontario right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I used to go to a Manitoba right wing site; there was someone acting exactly like BTJ.
    I could go on and on.
    This can not be coincidence.
    Those people are organised, trained and paid to annoy us in the hope we will abandon our conservaitve beliefs.
    Good luck with that.
    Conservatism is actually on the rise in most Western Nations.

  31. Oh Friend you’re ever so cynical. Why would anyone pay someone to annoy people that would be like if Ashton Kutcher got money to pull pran….oh…wait!
    Anyways, I’m pretty sure trolls just do it for the lulz. We’re really not so important that the vast left wing media consortium has to dispatch troll ninjas from their secret underground command center to convert us with annoying comments 😀 The similarity probably arises from the fact that all the leftist arguments have been recycled from the 1960s. If you do have evidence of troll ninjas for hire then let me know for I’ll send my wing-nut pirates to keel-haul them! Yargh! Oh a pirate’s life for me!

  32. over half a century ago, before WWII, Sinclair Lewis wrote a book called “It can’t happen here” theoretically describing the rise of Fascism in the USA. He was pointing out to Americans who felt themselves somehow better than Europeans that the insanity in Europe could come to the USA if it was not fought.
    Condell used the phrase “it can’t happen here” at the beginning of his video. As he says – it can and is happening here just as it has happened in Europe.
    When are our leaders going to wake up?

  33. The idiot troll is getting his wish- non-stop engagement!
    Why are you all falling for his ploy? It’s unwinnable, he changes parameters on every rejoinder!!
    That old Chinese guy, Cunfucious, was a pretty perceptive dude. Obviously he had BTJ in mind with his classic: “Man with head up his ass can’t see for shit!”.
    Now, quit feeding it….it’s becoming extremely bloated….and tiresome!

  34. “this is an organised effort by some sick leftist group.”
    If I were a psychologist I would have to conclude that you suffer from paranoid delusions. Might I suggest you focus on expanding your knowledge, rather than on irrelevant and irrational conspiracy theories.
    “I’d bet money on it.”
    I hope you’re not a gambler, otherwise I’d bet you lose more than you win.

  35. I miss W & Giuliani. Please bring them back. That “fn” bozo they have in the WH is beyond pathetic.

  36. BTJ,
    As I have said before to you. You haven’t a clue about the difference between the law and the “spirit” of the law.
    The law always makes criminals of everyone, and you are a master at using the law through words to try and trap people in their arguments.
    I have yet to read anything which you write which adds to the posts, you always use a twisted form of logic or socialist bent when commenting.
    It is wearisome to read your Marxist drivel, but the humor value is definitely there. It shows your shallowness and utter disregard for humanity and for being at peace with your fellow man. You stir the pot and then just run away from any comments which pin your a$$ to the wall, running off to pi$$ in another corner.
    Must be almost past your bedtime, mom should be by with milk and cookies just before she tucks you in. Sweet dreams!

  37. BJT>
    I wonder if you realize the useful idiot you’ve become?
    I don’t mean just in life and politics either. You create a wonderful platform for SDA commanders to vent and air thier ideologies. Much of it would undoubtedly lay by the wayside.
    So in a very odd way, we owe you our gratitude. You will only here this once here, maybe anywhere but, here it is anyway – Thanks pal.

  38. excuse the bad typo’s, still traveling and on iPod. Fusterating and slow, but it does “reach the world”.

  39. And those eleven Russian spies that got caught a couple weeks ago must have been created by my paranoid mind…right ?

  40. People:
    If you stick to debating ideas, you’ll be much better off.
    Name-calling is juvenile and intellectually hollow.

  41. First time I’ve ever seen anyone “snipped” here, BTJ. Congratulations. Couldn’t have happened to a better candidate.

  42. Yhatzee! Give the boy a prize!
    BTH has defined him/herself by saying: “…what’s decent and considerate is inherently subjective…so really there’s no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.”
    Now substitute ‘decent’ with ‘moral’ and you’ve got the moral relativism of the leftist/statist.
    No matter how repugnant an immoral or indecent act, their is ‘no right or wrong’ – cuz who are we to judge?

  43. “You haven’t a clue about the difference between the law and the “spirit” of the law. ”
    Ah, ok…let me guess…the ‘spirit of the law’ is how the collective majority determines who the law applies to and who it doesn’t right?
    “The law always makes criminals of everyone”
    The only ‘law’ I’ve referred to are the ones that grant individual rights and freedoms.
    “you are a master at using the law through words to try and trap people in their arguments. ”
    Is that the case? Or am I just doing my best to discuss an issue in rational, reasonable, logical terms which tends to entrap those who are not using those same tools into their own empty arguments?
    “Marxist drivel”
    What in Christ’s name are you talking about? Pretty easy to fall back on calling whatever you don’t agree with ‘Marxist’..even if I’ve been arguing for individual rights and freedoms, and the individual over the collective, somehow that’s ‘Marxist’.
    Here’s a tip…go read some books…and not the kinds with pictures.
    “You stir the pot and then just run away from any comments which pin your a$$ to the wall, running off to pi$$ in another corner.”
    Any examples?
    “You create a wonderful platform for SDA commanders to vent and air thier ideologies.”
    I sure do…and look what’s popped up..a bunch of Jim Taggarts and Ellsworth Tooeys…a whole lot of collectivist thoughts and collectivist support…essentially the unraveling of this facade you call a ‘conservative, pro Ayn Rand blog’. The resounding echo in here screams of Neo-Conservative views.
    “And those eleven Russian spies that got caught a couple weeks ago must have been created by my paranoid mind…right ?”
    Huh? What has that to do with ANYTHING?! You’ve gone off the deep end!

  44. Here’s something for the trolls [you know who you are] to chew on.
    You probably have a ‘right’ to crap in the bushes of a public park like a dog. Would it be acceptable and appropriate behavior even if it was your ‘right’?
    Not many are debating the right of Muslims in America to build a mosque. However it should be fairly obvious to anyone with at least a shred of intelligence, that a mosque near ‘Ground Zero’ is meant to be provocative and inflammatory.
    Let them try to build it. Do you really think NYC firefighters are going to respond when someone torches the site?

  45. Looking at the furor that’s erupting over the Wiz of ‘O’s toe sucking pro-Victory Mosque speech, I’d say the big man’s taken at least a few calls from some very irate Sr. Dems.
    It’s like watching someone going through the sucker punch obstacle on an episode of “Wipeout”. Ouch.

  46. “Now substitute ‘decent’ with ‘moral’ and you’ve got the moral relativism of the leftist/statist.
    No matter how repugnant an immoral or indecent act, their is ‘no right or wrong’ – cuz who are we to judge?”
    Well, first you substituted words into my mouth…what made you think that was ok, I’m not sure. You didn’t even attempt to show how ‘decent’ and ‘moral’ are equivalent.
    Second, I gave a means of judging right and wrong, or ‘morals’, the means by which the US was founded upon…the US constitution (which represents the most individual freedom humanity has seen) and all of the nations laws.
    Now you point out which one denies the right to build that Mosque.

  47. “You probably have a ‘right’ to crap in the bushes of a public park like a dog.”
    Key word ‘probably’..as in you’re not confident in what you’re saying…it is NOT legal to crap in a public park…it’s not even legal to let your dog crap in the park without picking it up in most areas.
    “a mosque near ‘Ground Zero’ is meant to be provocative and inflammatory.”
    And so is most of the content on South Park and Family Guy…are you proposing we censor them?

  48. Sorry to be contrarian here. But isn’t it good to hear the “arguments” of leftists from the “paid scriptwriters” who haunt these sites? Essentially, it gives us the arguments we are most likely to hear in our daily lives and we can hone our arguments, bone up on our facts when we come face to face with a person who holds these views because he/she hasn’t heard anything else. For the true believers, we cannot change them. However, for those naifs who were fed this pablum by their leftist teachers/professors, news agencies, etc. we can, by having real facts and reasonable arguments, change their point of view.
    Just a thought,
    favill

  49. M – thanks for your excellent comments. I agree with all your points but have some additional comments.
    First, I agree totally that Islam was not a theological revolution. Indeed, it says almost nothing about the metaphysical and most of what is says is taken from judaism. Yes, the Christian movement was revolutionary, a dramatic change from the judaic. The judaic is a tribal theology, focused around the intact group identity of one tribe; the christian is non-tribal, focused around the individual, any individual, as networked neighbours. The opposite of the tribal. The islamic is tribal but in opposition to judaic, it’s a militant tribalism, focused around conquering any and all who are seen as threats to its existence.
    I won’t go into what I analyze as the economic and demographic reasons for these emergence of these three different theologies but I do ground them all, in those economic and demographic realities.
    As for democracy, my view is that it is not a matter of choice but of demographics and economy. When a population reaches a certain threshold – and it can only do this in a particular economy (a chicken and egg situation) then, its political organization must give authority to the basic source of economic growth. This is a population that is engaged in production of more products – rather than a sustenance economy.
    A sustenance economy is stable; it is no-growth; the population is stable. There is no need for innovation of technology or products. This economic mode works within a tribal political system where a small elite set rules over the mass of the population..who are engaged only in sustenance or ‘continuity of the same type of lifestyle’.
    When the population expands beyond the carrying capacity of this economy (agriculture) then, the society must innovate and produce more. It can no longer be stable and no-growth; it must be growth. That requires a political shift to put power in a class that is non-hereditary, flexible, uncommitted to one and only one mindset, questioning, dissenting..a middle class.
    Democracy is the political mode the empowers this class. To try to repress this class, in a large population base, and try to remain in the no-growth authoritarianism takes a LOT of energy from the elite powers. This elite class has to use religious authoritarianism, military repression, vicious threats ..against the people. AND – it has trouble because it can’t keep up, economically, with the support of the increasing population.
    That’s why the Soviet Union communism (which is a tribal or two-class mode) collapsed, even though it tried to repress the people. China’s communism is irrelevant and the people move themselves into capitalism. This must happen in the ME. The repression in the ME is easier than in the SU, because the oil buys new technology and feeds the people. But – it can’t last.
    I hope this explains things in a small measure.

  50. I addressed a few questions to BJH at 5:11 P.M. last evening. S/he studiously avoided answering the one that really got to the heart of the matter, as so many other posters have pointed out:
    “The question should be, despite their inherent rights and freedoms to build a mosque in NYC, is it wise or compassionate to build it so close to Ground Zero, where over 3000 people were killed by Muslims on 9/11?”
    When s/he refused to answer this question, I realized that BJH was not operating in good faith and stopped engaging him/her as s/he is obviously a troll, intent on hijacking this thread and taking up way too much of Kate’s bandwidth.
    I’m pretty sure Kate means it when she says, “Don’t feed the trolls.”

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