I admit to being surprised by this;
The Hagars built their 2,700-square-foot house by stacking tire bales—five-foot-wide blocks of compressed tires—to form the exterior walls. They plugged gaps between the bales with cans, bottles, plastic plates, and other junk and moved in toward the end of 2008.
"We lovingly call it the trash house," Ms. Hagar says. The Hagars covered up all that trash with concrete, clay and stucco and installed south-facing windows to capture light, heat and views of the snowy slopes.
To pay for it, the Hagars in 2007 took out a $240,000 line of credit from Red Rocks Credit Union in suburban Denver. In the old days of easier credit, appraiser Lori Slota couldn't find another tire-bale home that had recently sold but said the house would be valued at $500,000 when complete, citing the listing of a straw-bale home as well as other houses in the area.
Last year, with the home finally finished and interest rates at record lows, the Hagars started trying to refinance into a long-term, fixed-rate mortgage. But in February 2009, they got the bad news from loan officer Bill Schimel, who wrote in an email, "I think we have really hit a brick wall here."
I'd always assumed such projects were self-financed.
This was back in the days of easy credit, when lack of income, employment, or assets did not present any kind of material obstacle to any mortgage application in the U.S. It doesn't surprise me that a lender would have come to the table to finance a literal garbage home prior to the banking crisis of 2008.
The lender in question is also a credit union. I admit, I don't know much about the credit union system in the U.S. But, if it's at all similar to Canadian credit unions, you could expect generally lax lending guidelines compared to banks, as well as "lefty" business goals which could include financing of these kinds of projects.
These homeowners, in my opinion, were lucky to get financing in the first place, and should have had a plan B in place. I'm not surprised that in the current banking environment they're meeting stiff resistance from lenders. I wonder if the existing line of credit might be in danger of being called by the bank.
Maybe next time they will build a house made out of renewable materials.
Like wood.
Wood is a renewable resource.
What these Greenies have against the lumber industry I'll never understand.
I'm not surprised that the Hagars can't remortgage it at what they imagine it's worth when most wannabe home owners probably won't value their home's unique construction the way they do.
It's the Hagar's dream home and they were definitely dreaming when they built it.
Guess it is true . . . its not easy being Green.
Too bad, so sad.
On the other hand, I'd bet that place would burn like crazy if those tires got going.
Apparently, you can build houses out of straw.
Just saying.
The real problem is insulation, which pre-fab houses do half-assedly. If one were truly "green", making insulation work would be- well- an environmentally sound necessity, no?
Just my thoughts.
Pioneers get arrows in the back.
Maybe they forgot this fable from days gone by.
The Three Little Pigs
Once upon a time there were three little pigs and the time came for them to leave home and seek their fortunes.
Before they left, their mother told them "Whatever you do, do it the best that you can because that's the way to get along in the world".
The first little pig built his house out of straw because it was the easiest thing to do.
The second little pig built his house out of sticks. This was a little bit stronger than a straw house.
The third little pig built his house out of bricks.
One night the big bad wolf, who dearly loved to eat fat little piggies, came along and saw the first little pig in his house of straw. He said "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!"
"Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig.
But of course the wolf did blow the house in and ate the first little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of sticks.
"Let me in ,Let me in little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But the wolf blew that house in too, and ate the second little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of bricks.
"Let me in , let me in" cried the wolf
"Or I'll huff and I'll puff till I blow your house in"
"Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin" said the pig.
Well, the wolf huffed and puffed but he could not blow down that brick house.
But the wolf was a sly old wolf and he climbed up on the roof to look for a way into the brick house.
The little pig saw the wolf climb up on the roof and lit a roaring fire in the fireplace and placed on it a large kettle of water.
When the wolf finally found the hole in the chimney he crawled down and KERSPLASH right into that kettle of water and that was the end of his troubles with the big bad wolf.
The next day the little pig invited his mother over. She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can." Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson. And he just lived happily ever after!
The End.
It's hard to feel sorry for idiots... They should call Gore. I am sure he will help them out.
Marjorie, the trash heap and the two rats come to mind... Maybe hollywood.... oh forget it!
I have this picture of Santa Claus stuck in a truck tire.
If you inflate the tires with hydrogen, you can 'refloat' your home to a new destination.
Maybe they could sell it as a 'porta Zeppelin'...
Oh the humanity!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"
Its a fact of the market that your property is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
It points to the short sightedness of those who prefer pension plans to children. If there is no one (next generation)to buy your holdings your holdings are worthless. Unless of course you can eat the paper your assets are listed on.
Maybe they should ask for a government bailout.
Kind of a pity really, jokes aside, it looks pretty nice at first glance, the pic's I've seen to strawbale and other "earthship" house look intriging.
On the other hand I fully understand the suspicions of mortgage co's , if there is nothing to compare it to, who knows what it might be worth until you sell it. (Aside from which they are owner builder projects and are probably eccentric.)
I'd imagine strawbale houses are easier, they look more conventional and are starting to have a track record.
I wonder about the tore bales though, tires are basically solid form pretroleum...that outght to be 100% recyclable.
In the icy climes of Northern Manitoba homes were built using stacked parallel rows of whole one foot long logs with six inches of space between for insulation with chips or straw.
These homes were the warmest in winter and the coolest in summer compared other types of construction.
There was no need for fancy shmantzy mortgage entrapment to enrich banks either.
Because the walls were 30 inches thick, you got nice wide sills for plants.
No link this time, but twenty years ago U of Manitoba compared many building types and this came up the winner for the north anywhere below the tree line.
I don't see the problem with building your own house of compressed tires encased in concrete, or straw bales covered with concrete or other siding. The only problem seems to be that they've bought into the idea that they need to have financing from lenders that only deal with stick houses. The problem is strictly a question of financing, as many of these alternate materials built houses were built to reduce the heating costs associated with stick houses, and they don't fit the norms of how banks deal with customers. I find the idea of a "one size fits all" way of house financing as ridiculous. One doesn't need to drive very far into our cities suburbs in order to see that the rubber stamp built houses we've been building are supremely ugly, and not real warm. Neighbors look at those who paint their front door red on a street full of white doors like you're from another planet, not "getting it" that the only reason for your red door is to enable you to find your own house in a rubber stamped neighborhood. There are a couple of abode type houses I can think of in Calgary, both would fetch a premium over their neighbors houses. One is +50 years old, the other was built in about 1990. I do recall that rubber tire fire down east some years ago, it burned for a week or so? The rubber tire idea wouldn't go too far with me, but straw would.
I am surprised that these folks found financing during the boom, not so much that they can't find financing now. Still if someone wants to build a self financed house, and it meets the structural, electrical, plumbing codes, all the power to them. I don't think it's in anyone's interest to have the government or banking / insurance industries telling us what sort of house we need to be living in. I've had enough of building rubber stamp housing. All of it clad with beige plastic. Windows totally surrounded with plastic channels for insulation, then glued to the few remaining strips of wood left in a house. Plastic ductwork, plastic water pipes and drains, plastic eves, plastic shingle roofs, plastic (nylon) carpets, hardwood clad on to plastic floors. Plastic houses are ok with the banks? Idiots.
It's no wonder that firemen confronted with these toxic flaming houses simply stand on the street and try to prevent the neighbors houses from melting.
Been in a "show house" lately? breathe the plastic. It's that new car smell, and it's toxic.
Remember wood houses?
Let's not forget what led to the entire housing mess in the USA, the housing bubble in Australia, the current housing bubble in Canada, it all leads to the government.
I hope it's a non-smoking home.
Your tax dollars in action, Bob Macdonald, the CBC's drama major turned AGW whore explains climate change to us.
He got a couple of good spankings after the CRU emails came out, but now he's back for more.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2010/03/ice-science-continues.html#socialcomments
Come for the gag reflex, stay for the humour:
"This continuing flood of data from hundreds of sources around the globe will provide the ammunition climate scientists need to fight back against the highly vocal campaign of misleading information that stalled talks in Copenhagen and confused the public.
Climate scientists have been in shock from unprecedented attacks on their data and methods. Shouts of "fraud," "conspiracy," "cover up," "hoax" have filled headlines, making it look as though the whole of climate science is in a vicious debate within itself, when in fact, it's the exact opposite. There is overwhelming agreement that the planet is warming and that human influences are accelerating the process."
(snip)
"Scientists, by nature, do not usually speak out on issues that become politicized. They only report on what they see in the their data."
Straw is one of the best insulating materials around,if it has been dried and properly baled.My only problem would be do I want to live in a nice,cosy,snug house built of on the most combustible materials around?
I remember many years ago back in the Maritimes,we stacked those suckers around the foundation just before the first snowfall to keep out drafts.Worked wonders.But as soon as the spring thaw came along,Dad made sure those suckers where taken away and turned into a nice bonfire.Worked great at the edge of the backyard skating rink!
Fred @ 1:27 PM "On the other hand, I'd bet that place would burn like crazy if those tires got going."
First thing that crossed my mind, too. And that would be some wicked-ass black smoke, too. Stinky, full of poisonous particulate, enough smog to increase health care costs in the area for a decade. Just what Greenies don't like, even though they would likely cheer the innovative use of old tires. They can't win. But we knew that already.
There's wood in them there tree$.
...-
"North and Booker on Amazongate: A billion dollar cash cow
20 03 2010
Dr. Richard North of the EU Referendum sends word of this new revelation. North and Christopher Booker were the first to point out the money trail with Pachauri. Now the have followed the money on IPCC’s “Amazongate” all the way to the World Wildlife Fund (WWF). Here’s an excerpt from both.
Appearing in the Booker column is an account of how the “conservation” group WWF hopes to turn Amazonian trees into billions of dollars, all in the name of saving the planet. The background briefing on which Booker relied is posted below, detailing how the rainforests are to become a monstrous cash-making machine.
The Amazon – a “green gold-rush”
The WWF and other green campaign groups talking up the destruction of the Amazon rainforests are among those who stand to make billions of dollars from the scare. This “green gold-rush” involves taking control of huge tracts of rainforest supposedly to stop them being chopped down, and selling carbon credits gained from carbon dioxide emissions they claim will be “saved”.
Backed by a $30 million grant from the World Bank, the WWF has already partnered in a pilot scheme to manage 20 million acres in Brazil. If their plans get the go-ahead in Mexico at the end of the year, the forests will be worth over $60 billion in “carbon credits”, paid for by consumers in “rich” countries through their electricity bills and in increased prices for goods and services."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
While I’m not too sure about doing it for environmental reasons, I actually like seeing experimentation with alternate materials for construction; and using tire-rubber had never really crossed my mind.
In general, I’m fairly disappointed with how homes are built in Canada compared to the rest of the world when you consider how expensive our homes are. When you consider that many homes in many states have similar construction and square-footage and contractors are willing to build them for 1/4 to 1/2 the cost we can get them for in cities like Calgary it seems a little like we’re being ripped off.
I find the area of alternative housebuilding techniques quite interesting. From the reading I've done, the biggest problem with alternative houses is getting permits to build from government departments - liability, zoning, meeting building codes, aesthetics, etc. In fact, there are cases of underground homes having air quality issues making them unlivable and unsellable. The banks are completely justified being nervous. Perhaps a brand new, taxpayer funded program is needed to help out environment friendly housing (kidding)
As a non-conformist I really appreciate the 'out of the box' style of those homes, as well as the individual spirit of the home owners. It really is a shame that Freddie mac and Fannie may(who came up with those corny names?) are still affecting mortgages.
But 'green'...? How much fuel was required to lug that stuff around. And why so huge?
I'll take a cozy a log cabin in the bush anytime.
Stan ..I heard Macdonald on the radio yesterday...a desperate attempt at fear mongering, "Canada in 2050". It was a re-run from '07, full of quotes from the IPPC of course. Good for a laugh, but CBC has a loyal following, so they could assume their listeners were uniformed.
I listen occasionally to find out what propaganda is being put out on my dime.
Have been into this topic for awhile now. Based on what I've seen, most of this type of construction is self-built on the side with much recycled materials. Typically costs are minimal to build what often turn out to be great homes. Homes that are efficient, very stable and fit their surroundings quite well. So in this case I'm not sure what went wrong re: the cost, must be the owners contracted out the whole job, the builders not familiar with the process? The size of the house is big, not typical for this type of construction method either. The best way for the country to go green is to put the power into the hands of individual property owners I believe.
Its my understanding that three inches of sprayed foam insulation will take a sheet of metal to R35 or so, while completely sealing all leaks, seams, holes, etc. Spray foam guys are making a killing insulating tank farms etc. out in the oil patch. Certain types are weatherproof and can be applied to the outside of -any- structure.
I have a bog standard portal frame steel building and insulated it it with Silvercoat rolled fiberglass. Plastic backing with a silver mylar front stuck to pink insulation with sticky tape down one edge. I heat the 30x40 building with one (1) 30,000 BTU radiant tube heater. Shirtsleeve warm, even with the roll-up door and concrete floor.
Did I mention both spray foam and silvercoat are fireproof?
Making a house out tires is freakin' greenie stupidity, given modern insulation technology.
Would the not receive aid for living in a toxic dump? I would imagine it is sealed fairly tight but tires aren't inert.
All well and good to make your house air tight.....but then you have to bring in air from out side any way....a friend of mine re-done an older home....nice and air tight...but furnace would not work right...lack of oxygen, thats what was the problem...a house needs a lot of fresh air to work....
When you consider that many homes in many (U.S.)states have similar construction and square-footage and contractors are willing to build them for 1/4 to 1/2 the cost we can get them for in cities like Calgary it seems a little like we’re being ripped off.
Posted by: Peppermint Panda at March 20, 2010 4:22 PM
-----------------------------
The U.S. uses literally millions of $8 dollar an hour,zero benefits illegal alien labourers to build their houses cheaply.
I lived in a house like this for a few months in late 2007, just outside Taos, New Mexico. It was hands-down the most beautiful house I've ever lived in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkB_L03gfcQ
There are a number of smaller (one-family) "Earthships" in the neighborhood that are built on similar construction principles. We were growing bananas indoors in the high desert, 7600 feet above sea level!
I'm in the video above, and worked alongside Joe Holden and Charles Shults (both also in the video) for about nine months (and solo since then) on solar thermal power.
It isn't airy flower-child escapist communes or mass socialism that will enrich people's lives. That's been the central fallacy of the communists in Malthusian clothing. The free-market economy and the technology it produces explode all limits to growth. All. Of. Them.
Decentralized (i.e. home-based) electrical power and decentralized water treatment and recycling can be made affordable - if and only if the full power of the market is brought to bear and the technology allowed to develop without government distortion of the market.
Think of the difference it would make to a village in Cameroon to have its own electrical power, fresh water, and sewage treatment - without having to connect the entire country to a grid - and solid homes made out of recycled materials and the techniques refined in Taos. It's the sort of thing microloans are made for.
BTW, the stuff I was working on wasn't the only thing going on at Angel's nest... besides the new road (the hardener is a byproduct of sugar production that used to be simply dumped) and the water treatment systems and tires-and-rammed-earth construction, there were tests of a building material made of granite dust and aluminum powder and a few other ingredients that formed a concrete-like material. There was a shed out back made of this stuff - walls two inches thick with an insulation value of R-60, strong enough to support the roof. Technology's cool.
There is nothing wrong with using post consumer waste as a construction material. I think its a great idea if it keeps overall cost of ownership down.
Of course that overall cost of ownership includes financing costs. It's the lenders right to evaluate the risks as they see fit and apply provide (or not) loans as they see fit.
I would like to see more simplification of the building code, make the outcomes mandatory not the means. If you can get an engineer to put his stamp on a design that will meet the intent of the code, that is all that should be required.
Mr g @ 5:29
Watched any housing developments going up in the lower mainland of BC lately? The crews aren't Mexican, but they definitely appear to be Newer Canadians, and according to the carpenter's unions, they definitely aren't paid up members.
But the prices are still astronomical - a middleman is obviously afoot.
And the BC government definitely doesn't want the sale prices to drop - they're raking in hellacious taxes on every new place sold.
Most bricks are recycled. So is most steel.
Whats the insurance on a house like that?
You know, everyone is missing the real story here: that being that when you want to borrow from a bank (term loan, mortgage, whatever) now, you don't get to "sell your idea" to them. Rather, you meet some low-level intermediary, who can't even go to the bathroom by themself with permission. Then they plug in data and send it to the bank's "Risk Management Group", a nameless faceless bunch of math geeks somewhere who don't understand or want to understand your business. Anything outside of their blinders, anything inventive, is turned down without recourse.
Whether you agree with his idea or not, that's what happened to this homeowner, and that's what happens to any new idea now. There is a big difference between the (government mandated) profligate granting of mortgages in the USA pre-meltdown, and the support of new ideas. This lack of support is hurting our society right now.
POWinCA
The most recycled material in the world is steel/iron. In fact, most current steelmaking processes simply cannot function without scrap in the mix.
As far as building construction, sealing is a big priority and stuff like poor air and furnaces that don't work is a simple problem to fix. Technology developed for confinment livestock barns----heat exchangers----these transfer the heat of exhausted interior air to incoming air. The problem is that the most efficient freeze up in cold weather---interior air is usually moist.
Years ago I installed a fresh air duct to feed a furnace, in a house somebody successfully made virtually air-tight. And a heat exchanger.
.......something about the law of unintended consequences.
I think the fact that it is a "different" type of house is not the issue. Lord knows there are enough TV shows and Popular Science stories about wacky homes but rather the fact that they got a mortgage to build this pile of dung. But then again, this is precisely the reason the US got itself into that economic mess. Kind of like investing in that 20 year collection of National Geographic, it is only worth something if someone is actually willing to pay for it.
BIG Al's GW strikes again.
...-
"As mucky Manitoba ice roads begin to freeze, marooned convoy inches south
No one missing, no one injured, RCMP say"
(Globemale)
...-
"Avalanche deaths a wake-up call to enthusiasts: Cops" (TO Sun)
[quote]Decentralized (i.e. home-based) electrical power and decentralized water treatment and recycling can be made affordable - if and only if the full power of the market is brought to bear and the technology allowed to develop without government distortion of the market.[/quote]
Ed Minchau
Ed,
I agree with both the concepts and your approach to researching sustainable life styles, good video. It has been my experience that most Engineers support serious research,.. and in practice are environmentally friendly.
The problem is that Stupid People get involved (the Eco nuts) hoping to politically & financially benefit themselves....It is unfortunate that so much BS is called science..
RE Post: Those who build houses (flipping) with credit lines may be bypassing code & mortgage standards.. They then refinance, when its finished, hoping to sell the home with a clean Mortgage...Screw them
Maybe the problem here is that the banks are looking at it all the wrong way ... they are only making loans that they can sell ... WTF is that. No wonder the foreclosure rate is so high. Back in the day you had a relationship with the bank and everyone knew where their loan was and who they were repaying. Ahh the good old days.
But then again who really wants a house made of crap!!! I suspect insurance on that baby will be a bitch too ... has anyone ever seen a tire fire!!! I mpossible to put out!!! I'll stick with standard building materials thank-you very much.
From the post I'm not clear on whether the owners own the land clear title, or they're trying to finance the whole thing, land and improvements(?) If it's only the building they're trying to get financing for, and it's already built, they should have no problem getting a mortgage through a private Mortgage Broker... assuming there is enough equity in the land.
Doesn't sound like they're very creative, outside of their fascination with rubbish.
they should go to Tennesse to git financing, mny of the hillbillies live in garbage dumps, thusly the financial institutions there have expertese in dealing in dump financing:-))
it helps if tires are bermed, and coated otherwise.
The double-wall house, invented in Sask some yrs ago never took hold. Rvalues of 40+ for walls.
Not outrageous that a house can use mostly economy 2x3s and have the strength of timber..the old ladder construction
Perhaps they could move and build a house in Saskatchewan. Wouldn't they be PAID to use (recycle) rubber tires under the Saskatchewan Scrap Tire program? Then again, perhaps not. They may run into the same problems as Sasaktachewan ewaste companies being denied full and fair participation in the Government of Saskatchewan SWEEP program (www.sweepit.ca).
I'm almost certain SARCAN would love to expand into house building business and take subsidies for doing so. In fact, why wouldn't the Environment Minister approve a Buildings materials Handling Fee (BHF) added to the cost of every nail and 2X4 to help subsidise the Earth Ship building industry?
I'd be very concerned about fire risks in a house like that. If I was to build another house, it would be concrete which is fire resistant and I'd also use rock wool insulation and have a metal roof. That way one can have a house in the forest and not worry excessively about forest fires which can periodically be a major problem in S. central BC (like the Kelowna fires in 2003).
Rubber tires do last, though, and last time I looked at retaining walls made out of old tires the lifespan was given as 100 years or so.
Mr. G, your statement has some truth to it understanding that most of that labor hangs out in the Southwest and either Coast. In the Plains, we're old-fashioned and still use Americans. Plus, the illegals tend to high-tail it for the major metros which is fine with me. Our weather filters the riff raff.
It's interesting to juxtapose that in Switzerland, they use American college students as we do illegals here. They make coffee at the ski resorts for twelve bucks an hour to support their ski habits. There are also Aussies and Kiwis and I'm sure the occasional Canuck as well.
"We've really hit a brick wall here." I love it.