The Time Has Come

But, but, but Jimby Prentice has to do what he's told, and those big bad countries want him to act...
oh! What to do!

Poor Jimby! Oh, Joe Clark, please come help your Progressive cousin in his time of need!

All well and good to dump Harper, but what's the alternative? Iggy? Oh please spare me another round of Lieberals. Do we have the time to wait for the Wildrose Alliance to grow enough to take on the CPC? And then you'll only end up with another split vote and a Lieberal govt again. AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

You have gotta love it. Conservative party splinter groups forming, hence, further spreading out the right wing vote. The right wingers wonder boy, Stevie, has the environment minister sign the UN emission target document, one of the first countries to do so before the January 31st deadline. Stevie, declining in the polls since prorogation, as a result of a number of reasons.What can be next cap and trade or a federal carbon tax. We are already looking at reducing emissions.

I do not understand the outrage, it is political theatre to shut the left up and is completely in line with the Conservative stance proposed two years ago. The world caught up with the CPC position, while wrong headed is much less punitive than the Libs or NDP would have done.

It is NOT binding. It is NOT trade based. It is a UN self justification document just like the G20 2C nonsense. Remember this Government is a minority one and compromises have to be made to get anything done and keep the other parties from wasting Parliament's time with questions about Climate Change policy everyday.

If you want the Government to abandon Energy and Climate Legislation that is based on flawed science then landslide the CPC into power so they can abandon it, if we cannot do that we will get these insane policies as the compromise because the Left will never drop the Global Warming bogeyman as a political issue even if we have an Ice Age.

You're kind of missing the point, Rick.

Votes and money are different things. It's the base that supports the party through contributions. There's nothing like withholding cash to get a politician's attention.

Secondly, Wildrose has no business going national. They can achieve everything they need to by simply winning Alberta.

Personally, I think it's foolish to split the right vote again. And pointless. Let's let the PC minority go through the kabuki dance of pretending to care about carbon credits and enviro taxes, (while they realize that these measures are stupid) BUT ALSO in the meantime governing the country.

I don't want to needlessly split the right vote, and end up with a Liberal kleptocracy for years on end. And neither should anybody else here!!!

Whoa, so I am not alone in considering Harper a closed socialist for all things he's done since being 1st elected? Surprise, surprise!

Everything good we've gotten was not really thanks to him, but despite him. Everything we are still waiting for is due to him. He's gotten not a single penny from me over the last two years and is not getting any more if he does not make serious amends.

In the process, I had gathered ample evidence that the federal government modus operandi is weasely-liberal. Abort, abort, abort!

it's 'closet', sorry

Conservatives don't have a choice, we do not vote for for the DietCons we vote against the Leftwingers. Harper is our only choice, for now.

Prentice did exactly what he said he would do.

Unlike Kyoto, the targets set at Copenhagen are achievable.

Of course, that's not good enough for the Envirowhiners, who will never be satisfied. But then, that's a function of activism ... bitch about the problem, but offer no solutions.

Since bringing up my concerns with my local MP about the strategy going into Copenhagen, it's pretty apparent Canada had a reasonable approach and results given the facts at that time.

Now, with more and more evidence about how the AGW promoters started sliding in dubious claims once they believed the public could be duped, since they'd swallowed ‘the science is settled' line ...

There are enough countries out there right now who will not ratify. Then Prentice can say, ‘well, we gave it a shot.'

Seems like a winning strategy to me.

Also, I've taken a note that since being elected, CPC has removed 'contact us' form from their web site. Spoke volumes to me when it happened.

conservatives do have a choice - it's federal Libertarian party. If we quit en masse and joined Libertarians, that would send a message.

If Wildrose can do that, why Libertarian can't?

We have signed up to do nothing, just like for Cruton's Kyoto deal.

Everyone relax, this just gives PMSH a wonderful defense shield to hols back the socialist horde that wants to bankrupt the country and Lame Street Media who are ll closet Liberals & Dippers.

Nothing going to happen. It took 15 years to get the whole global warming thingy/IPCC to the top of the public agenda.

It will take at least a couple of years for to implode into its own cesspit of lies, deceits, fraud & corruption of science. It stared with Climategate and it won't stop.

Cognitive dissonance has a lingering residual power, especially over the minds of our Progressive Utopian Socialist wannabes.

Aaron:

Where's the cliff? I want to jump off it ... just like you.

I'm fine with Harper's play. As I said before Copenhagen, PMSH has gambled on BO's leadership and his ability to pass Cap'n Tax legislation. Cynical thinkers might suspect that PMSH doesn't believe that BO has the political currency nor know-how to get meaningful legislation passed. Conservatives need to be patient and see how things unfold. I'll still argue that it would be irresponsible and not conservative to ignore the American's position on this, good or bad.

That said, I think it is wise to keep the pressure on the Conservatives through reduced contributions as a constant reminder of the bases position on this and many other issues. They must know their base understands the political climate, and we expect them to play hardball when negotiating with the opposition, not to give the keys to the vault.

btw, what would you have Harper do?

Balance the budget through spending cuts.

How's that for a "do"?

I believe that if one does not sign on to the global climate emission control hysteria, trade sanctions might be applied against rogue countries.

that's *base's* postion

How about taxing the corporations more, and oil and gas companies and CEOs that are paid exorbitant salaries. That would be a start for a "do". For those that say this would be passed on to the consumer, introduce legislation to prevent this, as possible price fix. It could be done.

Indiana:

The solution: Fire Harper and get a true Conservative as leader of the CPC....one who is not afraid to communicate and act upon those Conservative values.

If the Libs ever get a leader with a pulse, instead of Count dracula, the CPC will be out in the cold for years.

I am no longer a significant donor to the CPC.

Is that you, Hugo?

I understand why Harper and the Conservatives had to get out in front of the issue when the Libs and the media owned it and were positioning it as THE issue that an election would be fought on.

At that time the Harper govt had little choice in the matter.

What the Left/MSM now own (and to some degree the Harper govt) is so full of holes and stinking with corruption, that I'm not sure that I'd want to be the one left holding the bag on this.

The Harper govt has ample opportunity right now to start to distance itself from AGW.

It does not have to be an outright denunciation, but it could at least publicly acknowledge that they are aware and studying the various scandals that have undermined the IPCCs claims ever since the Climategate scandal broke.

There is not reason to not begin a climb down on the issue. If they cant do it now, then when?

I have met with my MP on this issue and he says Harper remians firmly committed to their 2020 targets.

The only thing that C02 production increases is the wealth of the people and nations producing it.

How about taxing the corporations more, and oil and gas companies and CEOs that are paid exorbitant salaries.

Hey, you left out GM, Chrysler and Ford, plus the banks, pipeliners, power comanies and resource company execs. Then you need to consider taxing high wage earners in the civil service, unionised railway workers, plumbers, electricians, teachers, yes teachers. I do taxes, teachers make LOTS. Then there are the union executives earning six figure salaries off the wages of their workers.

Big list to tax T.

How about taxing the corporations more, and oil and gas companies and CEOs that are paid exorbitant salaries.

Yeah, peddle that faux-populist insanity over on blogs populated by the type of mouth-breather who believes you can tax your way to prosperity. Most here want smaller government, and more money in their own pockets to distribute as they see fit.

I understand why Harper and the Conservatives had to get out in front of the issue when the Libs and the media owned it and were positioning it as THE issue that an election would be fought on.

At that time the Harper govt had little choice in the matter.

What the Left/MSM now own (and to some degree the Harper govt) is so full of holes and stinking with corruption, that I'm not sure that I'd want to be the one left holding the bag on this.

The Harper govt has ample opportunity right now to start to distance itself from AGW.

It does not have to be an outright denunciation, but it could at least publicly acknowledge that they are aware and studying the various scandals that have undermined the IPCCs claims ever since the Climategate scandal broke.

There is no reason to not begin a climb down on the issue. If they cant do it now, then when?

I have met with my MP on this issue and he says Harper remians firmly committed to their 2020 targets.

The only thing that C02 production increases is the wealth of the people and nations producing it.

The only reason to capture it is to use it in enhanced recovery to get more black gold out of the ground.

Sorry for the double post - got a weird error message on the first one.

Remember back in 90s When Klein accused the federal of wanting to impose a cabon taxing scheme that wouldundermine Alberta's economy?

Remember how the Feds vehemently denied the idea of federal energy use taxing under the guise of carbon reduction? This was wild conjecture they said. Carbon tax was just made up to scare Albertans into voting PC. No such thing would be acceptable to Canadians they said.

Well where are we now? Who was lying and who was right? Who was the real defender of Canadian energy independence and who is the traitor?

Fly:

I remember that in the 90's I was 20 years younger.

A Harper leadership review is in the wind and could produce a new less cowardly leader. To turf "Spineless" Steve we'll need to get all the western populists and libertarians back in the tent that left after being disillusioned in Harper's loss of guts and principle.

Kenny is a good replacement.

The Fly, well, great, let's shoot for three seats again for the PCs.

Yes, Kenney is a good politician. But Harper is light years ahead of any PC leader we've had recently.

I wish people would realize this!! Sorry for getting worked up - but really people, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!!

Seems like a winning strategy to me.
Posted by: set you free at February 1, 2010 11:52 AM

That sound is simply lies from politicians. And you find deception and a lack of transparency from government acceptable?

No wonder this country is a oligopolistic shithole with un-empowered MP's selling their souls for a $150k per year.

A nation of welfare encased low expectations and a nationalized car company.

Well done.

"How about taxing the corporations more, and oil and gas companies and CEOs that are paid exorbitant salaries."

Make the rich pay. Didn't that idea fizzle out in the 70's? Or is it making a comeback? Taxing our way to prosperity seems to be the logical solution. Pure, unadulterated drivel.

@T
How'd those price and wage controls work out for P.E.T. and his Finance Minister Turner?
I wouldn't expect small fry like you to know about that policy, or acknowledge its failure.

Eric Larsen: Harper is indeed a brilliant man who is skilled at partisan gutter politics. But he is incapable of explaining to Canadians why they'd ever want a conservative government, and his pandering for votes makes him indistinguishable from the LPC and NDP. He's turned the CPC into an undefined heap of mush populated by party hacks.

Next election, as a result, will be advantage Iggy, no matter how inept Iggy is. Harper has given Canadians absolutely no reason to pick a conservative, only reasons why NOT to pick the LPC, and that's wearing thin.

Conservatives win by being conservatives; not chameleons.

I sent an email to Jimbo Prentice, expressing my dissatisfaction with Canada granting the AGW crowd recognition through acknowledgement of whatever agreement was made at the Copenhagen Fubarfest.

I got a reply from one of his assistants within a day: my message had been passed to - (drum roll, maestro..) - Environment Canada.

I expect to receive a volume of AGW propaganda aimed at showing me the error of my ways, in all likelihood including pictures from Al Gore's home movie.

At least I now know exactly which side Prentice is on.

Cjunk, but the problem is the public school system and universities churn out little liberals and NDPers. Young conservatives are rara aves. In ten to twenty years, the "greatest generation" will be gone - and I bet a lot of them voted PC because they were raised to be self-reliant. So, the CPC has a dim future by even going slightly more than right of centre, IMHO.

Agreed Eric, and I respectfully disagree Sparky.

I'll still maintain that it is irresponsible and not conservative to not consider what the Americans and out other trade partners will do on this file.

I'll hope and work toward this whole fiasco going Dodo, but I don't support making poor economic decision on ideology.

Know the snap count people, we don't need a false start now!

Posted by: hardboiled at February 1, 2010 1:06 PM

Not sure why you need to shift the topic.

It's pretty clear Prentice acted in Canada's interest and he did exactly what he promised to do.

Harper does indeed have to do what our other trade partners do, especially following the U.S. lead.

However, there is no reason that we haven't heard some CPC backbenchers raise the Climategate issues in public.
Get the truth out there please, federal conservatives.
There are enough scandals involved in this AGW scam to begin raising public awareness from the federal political side.

The problem with the libertarian party as anything more than a protest vote:

1. People are generally change-averse.
2. People are generally risk-averse.
3. Libertarians are trying to sell the idea that risky sounding changes will create positive outcomes.
4. Libertarians are generally unwilling to compromise on their principles.

Libertarian policy documents read more like some sort of horror novel to the unwashed masses.

I would not be so angry with Harper for pandering to the left on certain issues if he would just expend a little political capital from time to time to keep his base supporters motivated, (the continuing Wheat Board fiasco comes to mind) so that they can feel like they still have a dog in this race. But that isn't happening. Instead, Harper continues to take his base for granted.

The problem with Harper's strategy is that it's based on the false idea that the only choice for voters is between Harper and the Libs/NDP/Greens. There is at least one other choice: sitting on your hands, voting for none of them, and cutting back or eliminating your financial contributions. That's exactly what happened with the Republicans by 2008. They largely abandoned their base and became tax-and-spend addicts that were indistinguishable from their Democratic counterparts. They were rewarded with massive electoral defeat.

If Harper thinks that this cannot happen to him, he had best get a new crop of advisors.

5. It would vote-split and give Canada a possible Liberal government.

Best solution, IMHO?

1. Do all you can to ensure Canada has a majority Conservative government. That would neutralize all possible power grabs by Canada's three lefty parties. Coalition, anybody?

Nah, the best solution would be to shut down the communications branch of the Liberal Party (CBC). Think about how much less conservative=right-wing=fascism=evil brainwashing people would be exposed to as a result.

Stricker:

Wishful thinking, at best.

T...whenever I read your drivel the word idiot always comes to mind.

Western sovereignty is the best solution.

I've asked umpteen times: "Does anyone believe that a Liberal government intent on harming western Canada/Canadians isn't eminent?"

set you free, do you get paged every time there is a critical to CPC comment on the blogs? What's your SLA for character assassination of the commenters?

Libertarians are unwilling to compromise on their principles, yes. Are communists?

> (the continuing Wheat Board fiasco comes to mind)

...and continuing registry fiasco too... Meanwhile I obtained evidence thru FOI that since enacting FA federal government did not bother to gather a shred of statistics regarding efficiency of its licensing and registration statutes. Not a bit of evidence exists that FA did anything to improve lives of Canadians, yet this boondoggle continues: neither restricting or prohibiting certains firearms and introducing certain classes of licenses, nor limiting magazine capacity was monitored for compliance.

Who enacts laws and never bothers to determine compliance levels??? Canada does and resists calls to reverse course even after 11 years.

Do something, then I'll send money. Until then I am recycling their donation demand letters and calendars with 'dear leader' that they are spamming me with. And to add insult to injury PMSH now wears red tie.

Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Oscar Oscar Foxtrot

set you free: Sure, wishful thinking, but at this point it seems more likely that the CBC's infrastructure will be taken out by a stray meteorite before the CPC will ever stop acting like the CBC's bitch, incessantly apologizing for being conservative.

When I commented like this (that CPC seemed to have lost sight of its conservative principles) several years ago there were a lot of the readers to shout me down. The word was Steve’s in a minority and can’t do anything – give him time. Well I have come to see that there was some wisdom in that. He has pushed the conservative agenda on a lot of things. Like . . . . Oh wait – I can’t think of any right now.

I think he got terrified when the 3 stooges put their coalition together and has resorted to doing what the polls want and taking extraordinary steps to avoid controversy. He prorogued Parliament to avoid the Afghan detainee controversy. He signs onto the Copenhagen Accord immediately to avoid controversy. His problem is when he does not stand for anything, he falls for everything. I agree with the commentators that he has to put a conservative agenda out there and pursue it. IMHO, he has drifted.

What really concerns me is the tenor of the supporters seems to be, “Its ok, he doesn’t mean it. The Copenhagen thing will blow up without consequence to us.” I say HFS man! That is saying its fine for our elected representatives to lie to us and mislead us! I sincerely hope we aren’t on side with that.

But, the CPC is the lesser of the evils and as things stand now, we will have no alternative but to vote for them - holding our nose while we do it.

> I say HFS man!

If CPC does not stand up and say 'climate fraud is designed to redistribute wealth to Chicom', they are not my party.

With friends like that who needs enemies?

“That is saying its fine for our elected representatives to lie to us and mislead us! I sincerely hope we aren’t on side with that.”

The thing is rroe, “you don't bring a knife to a gun fight". This is how the game is played in Canada, the Conservatives didn’t make the rules, but they are far more effective working inside the box at this time.

Do any of you people remember the whoopn's we took when the CPC/Reform/PC were politically unsophisticated? PMSH has taken the oppositions largest stick(like it or not) CO2 and thrown it away. I can’t understand why you people don’t see the benefit of fighting on our terms, economics and crime, our proverbial home field. By doing what many suggest, outing the Conservatives as not convinced about AGW has no tangible benefits except for making some ideological conservatives FEEL BETTER.

If you really must FEEL BETTER, then you should ask your dentist for a lollipop after your next visit.