Just wondering ... was Mr. Baradar mirandized and lawyered up according to O-policy ... or did they play splish splash with the POS if he refused to spill the beans:
The Taliban's top military commander has been arrested in a joint CIA-Pakistani operation in Pakistan.Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the No.2 behind Afghan Taliban founder Mullah Mohammad Omar and a close associate of Osama bin Laden, was captured in the southern Pakistani port city of Karachi.
The arrest represents a major victory against the insurgents as U.S. troops push into their heartland in southern Afghanistan.
Baradar was held 10 days ago with the assistance of the United States and 'was talking' to his interrogators.
As an aside, any guess what the LPC and NDP policy would be with Baradar, given their hair pulling over even the thought of a Taliban being so much as scowled at.
With regards to him being mirandized and all of that: Good point.
Bill Whittle over at PJTV has made an excellent point on the topic of the top 5 al-Qaeda guys that are about to be tried on US soil as if they were US citizens...
If they are to be treated as regular defendants, then there is absolutely no way that they can be found anything but "not guilty." For one, they were captured in a region where the US has no jurisdiction. Secondly, they were not mirandized. And besides, the President himself has described the means used to extract information from them as "torture."
Any one of these is reason enough to have a case thrown out of a civilian court (in pre-trial motions), right? But, it's worse than that. Obama has said that, no matter what the outcome of the trials, these men will never go free. Huh?
Doesn't that mean that the POTUS has just declared himself above the very judicial system within which he so badly wants these men tried? Isn't that akin to declaring himself a dictator who runs show-trials? Doesn't this, if allowed to proceed, make the US Constitution dead?
Someone with more legal expertise want to weigh in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy was captured by the Pakistan military.
That would mean Pakistan laws would have applied for the last 10 days and the O-policy would not apply, since the arrest did not happen on US soil or by the US military.
According to the story, the White House knew about this. That would be because the CIA informed them of the capture.
If anything, it's a ‘learning moment,' should some valuable intelligence be gleaned from Baradar.
Mirandize? US law does not apply in Pakistan.
No set you free, international law applies and American law applies to the CIA agents. If any American laws are broken while they are there in an official capacity, then the agents and anyone directing them can be charged by Holder.
Recall the Rendition scandal!
Every time under Bush when we caught one of Saddam's, Zarqawi's, or bin Laden's lieutenants, the liberals would say, "Oh, they've caught another Number 2. How many Number 2s are there? Why can't they catch Number 1?"
The answers to their questions are obvious to those of even moderate intellect:
1. They were the Number 2s from different organizations.
2. When Number 2 gets caught or killed, Number 3 gets a promotion.
3. Within any organization there are sometimes several Number 2s
4. Number 1s use Number 2s so THEY don't get caught or killed. That's Number 2's job.
But what's interesting is that you won't hear them criticize Obama for catching a Number 2. They'll say what marvelous work he's doing.
bryceman
I would agree with all points.
I lack formal expertise but this has been punted about by experts and they concur.
In fact OBOZO contaminated the process with his guilty verdict----that alone means acquital.
OBOZO and his mob have repeatedly declared a frustration with the US Constitution.
Actually that declaration is adequate grounds for impeachment. The only problem is his jury would be a democratic Congress.
I imagine there are a few things worse than being "detained" by the Pakistani army but I don't think sitting down,having tea and talking with the White House wankers is one of them. Pansies, every frikkin' one of those progressive dipwads.
Cjunk:
Can we glean from the story what role the CIA played?
According to my understanding, it's an intelligence-gathering agency. My guess would be that the CIA told the Pakistan military figured out where this guy was located, passed the information on to the Pakistan military, who then made the arrest and are holding him.
Therefore, the application of mirada rights, a practise the US used on the shoe bomber and the panty bomber, would not apply.
Unless you can show me where the US military was involved, methinks you're pissing up the wrong rope since Obama cannot apply his laws to a sovereign nation such as Pakistan.
Quite the change, the pakistani military and intelligence, from the late 90's when they informed OBL of an imminent missile strike. The tide is turning, Pakistan as a whole is turning against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. For too long they were too soft. I think the CIA deserves more credit than what will be given.
set you free: They would not have to mirandize unless there is an intent to try in US court. But, any humanrights transactions, or breaches in US law, such as waterboarding, while the CIA were present, would be offenses under US law. If they so much as slap the POS around while the agents are there, then US law has been broken. The CIA is bound by all US laws, no matter where their feet are planted at the moment.
Question: Is waterboarding against the law in the US now ... or just against policy?
My guess: This will be a Pak only deal, and once the CIA "are done questioning", the Paks will do whatever they want with Mr. Taliban, using methods taught them by the CIA under Bush. Information they glean will find its way into US hands, and Obama will be able to claim ignorance of any nastiness. It's simply rendition the Obama way ... and the KOS kids will be happy.
Whatever the gentleman's "rights" are, I think he should be allowed to choose a membership in either the LPC or NDP.
If any of these guys are actually tried under U.S. law, there isn't much chance of conviction. Look at how difficult it was for the U.S. government to arrest and convict Mafia bosses, and THEY lived right here, not 6000 miles away in a foreign Country.
Some might hypothesize Obama's deliberately made the cases unwinnable with his "never get out of jail" announcement.
Though I wouldn't.
"any guess what the LPC and NDP policy would be with Baradar, given their hair pulling over even the thought of a Taliban being so much as scowled at."
Apoplectic, hysterical progressive stupidity ?
Cjunk:
Baradar is a prisoner of Pakistan.
If Pakistan invites the CIA to ask questions and the CIA uses approved interrogation techniques, where's the issue?
This guy was not arrested in Detroit, nor was he arrested by the CIA, which does not have those priviledges in Pakistan.
Seems to me this tempest in a teapot is going nowhere.
set you free: neither were any of the Gitmo guys caught in the USA, and several were caught in Pakistan by Pak forces; yet look at the outcry. The CIA can ask questions, nicely, but anything they do, or view, that breaks US law makes them criminals in US courts ... they could be on Mars, it makes no difference, because they are acting as reps of the US government, Whatever they do, or view, the US government does and is fully accountable for. That's why I find this to be such a delicious situation, the quandry in the WH must be incredible, especially after all the high dudgeon expressed by this WH about Bush torture.
Thing is, I'm still not sure whether or not the Bush techniques are against the law, or against policy; Obama backed off making a clear distinction.
Cjunk:
What does Bush have to do with this story?
Which part of "fight or die" was unclear?
The Bush approach to captured high value terrorists was clear; get every ounce of info out of them, and waterboard if need be. The Obama WH clearly is against any harsh techniques and before the election and after they constantly attacked the Bush WH for their methods; going as far as to say that the Bush WH broke the law.
Now, the O-WH has a very high value target. This person could have in their grey matter incredible knowledge that could save not only Pak lives, but US military lives, Afgan lives, and possibly even US civilian lives. The POS they now have is responsible for incredible loss of civilian life in Pak and Afghanistan; loss of ISAF and US lives; and possibly loss of life outside the region.
If Baradar doesn't cooperate, the O-WH is now put in a tremendous quandry ... what to do? Let the Paks get the info, and pretend not to know the techniques used (which would be a direct contradiction to their position on rendition); or use the progressive nice guy approach and possibly learn little and save few lives; or go back to the Bush era policy which scored massive intel.
This could be a "chickens come home to roost" moment for the O-WH. I find it simply delightful when progressives are forced to deal in the real world, not in utopian theory.
I don't know if you guys knew this or not, but there is no law in the US saying "you must Mirandize" the subject. Miranda rights only need be conveyed if anything the subject says was going to be used in a US court of law. If the CIA and Pakistani military have no intention of using the information gathered in a trial, then they have a free rein. Likewise, I'm sure that such torture techniques such as sleep deprivation and physical hits, but it won't matter because it's not being done on US soil.
Cjunk:
Here's the reality according to the story.
Baradar has been incarcerated and interrogated for 10 days.
Even though the White House knew about this capture, there has been no call to mirandize.
Would it be too much to ask to just deal with the fact of this situation?
When will the "Obama = War Criminal" signs appear?
The O-WH said would mirandize terrorists caught abroad.
"interrogated for 10 days" ... that is the story though.
What does that mean? Were CIA present? What techniques were used? Was torture used? What is the O-WH policy now? Is info garnered via Pak torture (because that's what they do in Pak) going to be used by the USA? Is this a slick form of rendition?
I think you are missing the back story, and that is the increbible attack leveled at the Bush WH by the O-bots; yet here we find them with a high value target. What are they going to do?
Since Obama is not part of the judicial system, his opinion has no real effect on the trial. Nixon was quoted as saying Charles Manson was guilty, and though his lawyers tried to use it, Manson still went to jail.
POW is correct, that miranda only applies to statements that can be self incriminating. I doubt they need any of their statements, to make a case. The interrogators are looking for information to prevent future attacks, not information to strengthen their case against the individual.
When Obama said they'll never be released, I hope he meant they'll never be free to roam on US soil. Once again, he's voicing an opinion that has no real effect on the outcome of the case, since he's with the executive branch, not the judicial branch.
Of course, my comment applies only to civilian trials.
Cjunk:
What are they going to do?
They've done nothing for the past 10 days, so all those other fretful questions really are irrelevant in this particular situation.
They've acted consistent with international law, ie respecting the sovereignty of Pakistan.
Just the facts.
If Mullah Bullah is talking to a small group of top CIA and Pakistan Security people,if Mullah Bullah is being shown pictures of ISI operatives and Officers known to be islamist fanatics, if Mullah Bullah is being asked "Did this man smooth your way, warn you, or give you support?" and Mullah Bullah is saying: "Oh, yes, terrific chap, he's secretly married to my brother's grand daughter." there are going to be a lot of people in the Pakistan military sweating bullets or crapping their pants every time there is a knock on their door.
I love to harass Keith Olbermann by sending him emails through his web site only because he is the most obnoxious person ever on television.
Today I emailed that I had heard that Obama's crew are tacitly condoning the torture of the captured Taliban by the Pakistanis, who most certainly would have no qualms about doing that.
Hopefully Lefty Central will begin setting their hair on fire over the possibility.
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"sey you free says... Mirandize? US law does not apply in Pakistan."
sweet jebus on a pogo-stick... these guys don't use subtle stuff like waterboarding...
they'll go straight for the vice-grips. by the time the isi gets through with this guy
he'll have confessed to killing all the kennedys... including mother rose.
and president "torture is unamerican" mcdreamy just stood by and let it happen.
hope, change and "wtf i'm the prez".
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When are these guys going to realize that after capture and interrogation,you simply employ the "shoot,shovel,and shut-up" principal? Anyone else notice the number of terroists captured has dropped?
Or maybe the CIA just found a way to drop-kick the Zero in the teeth for his treatment of them? Oh please,please,please.
My position is that these maggots are not POWs and are outside the Geneva protocols.....
They have the statis and rights of detained bandits.....subject to summary execution.....
It is inappropriate to extend the rights of POW or try them in civil courts.
It is verboten under the Geneva Protocols to try POWs in civil courts. Japanese officials were hung for trying the Doolittle Raiders.... despite Japan not being a signatory to those protocols.
Damn sasquatch.You had to bring up those nasty Geneva Protocols! Since the Zero and his staff(and most lefties) don't give a hoot about the U.S. Constitution,why would they worry about Geneva? Heck,the Zero probably doesn't even know where Geneva is,let alone the Protocals that where signed there!
Mirandize freekin terrorists.... what a load!
Listen to Sasquatch .... he understands perfectly.