Those Clever Amazonians

If only they had the UN then we would all be speaking Xltyptl or whatever primitive uninteresting tongue that died out along with them now.

was it jungle or did they occupy this at a time of climate crisis like 2005?

one of those questions with a predetermined answer,

when did you stop beating your wife?

"Was it really forest [when the drawings were built] or did they occupy this area at a time of climate crisis, like that of 2005?"

huh?! This is the first time I've heard the medieval warm period being blamed for Amazon indians logging.

Before assessing the purpose or anything else, it would seem that accurate dating is neccessary.
We have yet to properly establish how the GREAT PYRAMIDS OF GIZA were erected or the platform of BAALBEK.....or establish their true age.

Maybe the geoglyphs were responsible for the subsequent cooling of the earth and the healing of the rainforest. Much like the return of the sun after my big bonfire 12 days ago. You can't just dismiss this stuff you know!

The geoglyphs are believed to have been sculpted by ancient people from the Amazon region around 700 years ago
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I don't know about any of you,but 700 years ago sure ain't ancient to me.

If it was a climate crisis were the Amazon Indians exacerbating the problem by using diesel skidders and logging trucks?

Syncro

Looks like someone laid out the building base of a ziggurat but wasn't allowed to construct it, probably failed an environmental impact study.

The middle square is crooked. Measure twice - dig once ;)

I'm thinking drier region than today, fire, and voila, a civilization where today there is the so-called timeless rain forest.

The greens have us totally bent over.

Mr.g - good pickup - I would guess that they are a lot older than that. sasquatch - thanks for making me learn something re Baalbek.

36 inch pipeline. Subsequent GW did them in.

Look carefully (and use your imagination) at the top left hand corner. It looks like a humanoid figure lying horizontal, one leg in the square, and one just overtop.
I think it might be Homer Simpson.

"...climate crisis..."

Why does every story need to be filtered through the bogus AGW lens. An interesting story here completely unrelated to AGW, yet some dunderhead manages to link the two. Freakin' unbelievable.

It's George Bush's fault.

"I think it might be Homer Simpson."

Yes, and he's been found at other geoglyph sites:

http://www.cherryflava.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/20/homer_2.jpg

Erik Larsen
You are really quite welcome...and proving to be one of my better students....Yeah Baalbek is a big HMMMMMMMMM....
a visit would blow your mind......

There is no such thing as useless trivia....
It's kept me alive and kicking so far.

Think fortification. Concentric protective barriers. Of course, this means the Amazonians were warring civilizations, a thought which likely would make the heads of the lefties explode.

Its a neat article...completely ruined by the authors purposeful injection of the green shakedown agenda. Look around you at the propaganda machine injecting green into all facets of your life. Its more mind boggling than anything I can think of. Im glad my news outlet SDA is pointing it out to the masses.

Woodporter; (can we call you Woodie? ;) )
I think you're spot on, NO ONE digs a trench that size without a damn good reason! That is not some religious~cultural artifact there. If it were a fortification/townsite, the first thing to go would have been the trees. Hence no problem laying out straight lines...why do the conspirazoid mentality folk have this common problem of ignoring the obvious?
Maybe Briffa could pop down and take some tree ring cores, you know, for the climate crisis theory crowd.

Yes, wuberman, I know what you mean. Whether I read about topics on science, engineering, business, or even sports, most of what I read is contaminated by the AGW nonsense. The cult runs deep.

Apparently the maximum age of the trees is on the order of 1000 years, by carbon dating. But mostly much younger than that. Be interesting to date the ages of trees around the geoglyphs.

My two cents, no way in hell they dug those trenches with trees standing there. No metal shovels, no metal axes, no frickin' way. Plus, its really hard to survey something that big when you can't see through the woods.

Ah! The conceit of liberals! No possible way these savages could grasp the concept of a moat now is there?

700 years ago puts us smack in the middle of the mini ice age directly after the medieval warm period.

Large population, decreasing food production, excess labour to dig a ditch to protect the waning food supplies from the marauding hungry tribes in the area.

Not far enough north to cause a year 406 moment, (the start of the fall of Rome).

The best part of the current recession is that the population will no longer have the money to send their kids in to have their thinking abilities destroyed by the Colleges and Universities, restoring the ratio of thinking people with the ability to fix things to the Educrat parrots with ROM instead of brains.

sasquatch - I agree that trivia is not trivial. In fact, I find the word a bit misleading - because factoids, dates, and history help us better understand the world

tell you one thing: no way in hell would i dig around trees and bush to dig a bunch of trenches for whatever. dense bush did not exist there at the time.

...which makes one ponder...

its obvious. don't let it puzzle you, greenies.

Double moat sandwiching a burn zone perimeter for protection from fire ants or other equally nasty critters?

"According to Peter Stahl, an anthropologist at the State University of New York at Binghamton, "lots" of botanists believe that "what the eco-imagery would like to picture as a pristine, untouched Urwelt [primeval world] in fact has been managed by people for millennia." The phrase "built environment," Erickson says, "applies to most, if not all, Neotropical landscapes."

"Landscape" in this case is meant exactly—Amazonian Indians literally created the ground beneath their feet. According to William I. Woods, a soil geographer at Southern Illinois University, ecologists' claims about terrible Amazonian land were based on very little data. In the late 1990s Woods and others began careful measurements in the lower Amazon. They indeed found lots of inhospitable terrain. But they also discovered swaths of terra preta—rich, fertile "black earth" that anthropologists increasingly believe was created by human beings.

Terra preta, Woods guesses, covers at least 10 percent of Amazonia, an area the size of France. It has amazing properties, he says. Tropical rain doesn't leach nutrients from terra preta fields; instead the soil, so to speak, fights back. Not far from Painted Rock Cave is a 300-acre area with a two-foot layer of terra preta quarried by locals for potting soil. The bottom third of the layer is never removed, workers there explain, because over time it will re-create the original soil layer in its initial thickness. The reason, scientists suspect, is that terra preta is generated by a special suite of microorganisms that resists depletion. "Apparently," Woods and the Wisconsin geographer Joseph M. McCann argued in a presentation last summer, "at some threshold level ... dark earth attains the capacity to perpetuate—even regenerate itself—thus behaving more like a living 'super'-organism than an inert material."

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200203/mann

Its is the foundation of a green house. They introduced a bit of CO2 and all hell broke loose! Damn plants took over a good portion of the continent. Curse you not so ancient amazonian's...

So clear cutting rain forests is a good thing after all?

Better living through Husqvarna

It really is objectionable to have to wade through the nonsense of AGW each and every time I read about a newly discovered interesting point.

It's similar in its irritation to when having a conversation with a 14 year old and every 5th word is "like". "I like, love her", what (like) ever. uff like.

"Better living through Husqvarna"

Precisely. Trees are a wonderful resource. They grow right back. I cut some 100 cords a year on a 200-acre woodlot and if you'd take a stroll on my property you'd have a hard time guessing I cut trees there.

Humans usually don't build things for the heck of it, unless they have to spend economic stimulus money. Those 'geoglyphs' obviously had a purpose, perhaps as fences to keep grazing animals in (or out) or for irrigation.

The Spanish destroyed so much of the recorded history and knowledge, we'll never know what motivated the Amazonians.

The layout could be accomplished with the trees in place. I spent 15 years surveying in the bush. It isn't easy, but it can be done. The digging would have to be done after the trees were removed. Rainforest trees have a shallow root system, that would be impossible to dig through.

I'd put my money on an agricultural project. The square shape suggests crop rows, and the ditches could be for protection from insects, or irrigation.

Whatever the reason, it sure looks like the rainforest has been removed before. 1000 years is a brief moment in time. It seems kind of silly to make such a fuss about things that will heal up so quickly.

IF you are interested in this, 1491 is a great book. These are not new, and Mann says that there is a lot of evidence that the rain forest is a massive garden, built by the pre Columbian Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus

Thanks, dp. First thing I thought when I saw them was some kind of irrigation. Geez, maybe it wasn't always rainforest! ZOMG!!

My two cents, no way in hell they dug those trenches with trees standing there. No metal shovels, no metal axes, no frickin' way. Plus, its really hard to survey something that big when you can't see through the woods.
Posted by: The Phantom at January 3, 2010 1:59 PM"

so who else disputes Kate's comment about "and the managed without felling a single tree"?

spin, spin, spin .....

OK, you caught me. Shirley McClain and I dug those in a previous life to save the Amazon Delta Smelt.

so who else disputes Kate's comment about "and the managed without felling a single tree"?

spin, spin, spin .....

Posted by: curious_george at January 3, 2010 5:29 PM
............

Um......Irony?

Maybe this is the layout for Gore's new house?

I would like to see the coordinates of these locations, so I can see them myself. Also, what scale is this? Further, the archeaologists can determine whether the ditches and dykes were built in a jungle or a tree-less plain.

Anyone further links?

Maybe they aren't "geoglyphs" but rather defensive fortifications or agricultural devices.

I hate delta smelt.

Syncro

As I drive the highways of BC, I do not see forests. I see $ signs.

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/anthro/system/files/MannAncientEarthmoversAmazon2008.pdf

A very interesting (url! and) web site which has a lot more informed speculation and less "green religion BS".

The idea that this area east of the Andes had a much different climate until 1200ad for about 3000 years is interesting also. Perhaps the earthworks had some sort of agricultural advantage combined with religious practice.

fly over the Amazon or even BC or Alaska, its hard to tell there is anyone there at all.

unfortunately most people perceptions of the earth are framed by their own urban environments. and the world is about 70% urban. the wilderness is immense.the oceans larger.

out here on the perimeter , there are no stars(Bono for one)

out here , we is stoned immaculate

climate changes. dinosaurs in long dead jungles that are now desert with their amazing Drumheller Hoodoos. Greenland....green

I wonder if they practiced the raised field agriculture identified in the Andes but on a larger scale, or if such a scale is even practicable for raised field. One thing's certain. The trees weren't there when those lines were excavated.

Site for human sacrifices...? Someone needed two square meals a day...

(coat)

um... stadium layout for upcoming Sting concert?

Well hell, no wonder our Alien Ancesters couldn't find us. The African Rain-Forests covered up all the landing signals.
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