Is there nothing that Obama can't do? Amid rejoicing at the NYT;
The Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday proposed stricter health standards for smog, replacing a Bush-era limit that ran counter to scientific recommendations.
The new limits -- which are presented as a range -- will likely put hundreds more counties nationwide in violation, a designation that will require them to find additional ways to clamp down on pollution or face government sanctions, most likely the loss of federal highway dollars.
The tighter standards will cost tens of billions of dollars to implement, but will ultimately save billions in avoided emergency room visits, premature deaths, and missed work and school days, the EPA said.
[...]
While smog has been a long-term problem in parts of Texas, California, and along the northeast Coast, the new standards could affect counties in Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, the Dakotas, Kansas, Minnesota and Iowa for the first time based on EPA data.
Yes, those Dakotas.
The tighter standards will cost tens of billions of dollars to implement, but will ultimately save billions in avoided emergency room visits, premature deaths, and missed work and school days, the EPA said.
Sure. And the liars shall lie down with the lambs and the other sheep, and the asses will still be asses.
Obama and his coterie of lefty radicals have to strike now while they can. After the Congressional elections in November this year, his options will probably be severely limited.
BTW, this is the same EPA that thinks carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant.
Just as Ontario has found that clean air test had not resulted in cleaner air.
Jamie, that would be "lions" and the last part of the sentence is sooo true.
Starting to wonder just what side of the zoo bars the monkeys are on.
imho;there is nothing wrong with controlling smog. In fact the guesstimates of the savings in health costs may even be close to correct. But! scientific evidence? I am sceptical of the integrity of any such claims from a "baby boomer" dominated scientific community. The misrepresntations made by this lot about anthroprgenic global warming have placed all scientific theories in the "be very careful" area of acting on their theories with taxpayers monies. Cheers;
one size fits all. for tin hats as well.
this will not change the smog in LA by one ppm
and likely wont change the air quality in north dakota by one ppm in any "true" pollutant either.
Drove through Iowa. Saw corn.
IF -- a big if -- the focus were on preserving or improving the quality of air and water, and not the foolish obsession with carbon and "climate change," in principle I would approve. But even then the devil would be in the details.
As it is, this looks like a blunt instrument, and it comes on top of blind adherence to the AGW dogma.
More insanity ... I've been waiting for the shooting to start. I've been waiting to see just how much Americans put up with. I have really lost faith in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
They are neither and they are apparently getting what they deserve?
Am I wrong?
If the enviros were smart they would never have gone down the AGW road to regulate fossil fuel burning out of existence, they would have done it by tightening Real pollutant emissions like the above one. It's much tougher to fight against and much easier to police and the technology, while expensive, is available. It is alos easier to craft trade rules around it - i.e. you cant import unless you produce using pollution standards similar to ours.
This better path had three difficulties for the world government crowd:
1. it could be done without creating a world government IOW less intervention than that was required to get the job done.
2. It may be technically possible to get energy out of fossil fuels without causing the emission of airborne pollutants. Natural gas is pretty much free of such things, gasoline and diesel are getting closer every day and (stationary)coal-burning technolgy could be economic and emissions-free not too far into the future.
Recent public disclosure that natural gas supplies are now, for all practical purposes, infinite and cheap, is viewed as a real threat by the global rule crowd in large part because it threatens their third objective which is:
3. By managing to adapt to the tigher emissions rules with ever-decreasing costs means that growth in the economy will likely not be halted or reversed - they want it to be returned to pre-1750 levels of activity. 2009 was a disatrous year for their cause.
By going down the anti-AGW path these activists have arguably set-back the cleaner environment cause as they are increasingly being seen as having corrupt motives (and they do) making any endeavour they now undertake to be met by much higher levels of public resistance.
Let's just see what Prime Minister Stephen Harper has to say about emissions, anthropogenic global warming, and climate change.....
"I'm convinced that the country, this country, will be a positive contributor to a realistic fight against climate change."
"Of course, it helps, you know, since President Obama came to office and since I've had my first meeting with him, they've announced targets that are almost identical to our targets so we continue to meet with them at high levels to look at best ways of moving forward. I think, as you know, we've got that framework essentially now recognized in the Copenhagen Accord.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/politics/story.html?id=2413394#ixzz0bwzoeKMw
Abe Froman
“America is at that awkward stage. It’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the b*****ds.”
........ those are the opening lines of “101 Things To Do ‘Til The Revolution” by Claire Wolfe.
Only a left wing, completely out of touch bureaucrat would think that spending ten billion dollars to save one billion is a good thing.
Be afraid Ontario, this is what Mcsquinty will do next, and watch your costs skyrocket. Ontario, where the leader chastises Albertas dirty OILSANDS, while accepting those dirty petrobucks in transfers, where their coal fired power plants source their coal from mines in the U.S. hauled to the lakes on diesel trucks/trains, loaded onto diesel ships and shipped across the lakes to the power plannts to be burned, and we in Ontario dont pollute, NO. It is Alberta where the power plants were built at the coal mines, Wabamum/ Sheerness and the power lines take it from there! Nuts now run the world, here is the proof. Wake up America, impeach this nut job, abd turn off Oprah.
"The tighter standards will cost tens of billions of dollars to implement, but will ultimately save billions in avoided emergency room visits, premature deaths, and missed work and school days, the EPA said."
Is this to be read as the implementation costs are approximately 10x higher than any future benefits to be derived?
And then, the future benefits are discounted much more than the immediate costs.
Cost benefit analysis - guess they don't teach it at them fancy schools in the US.
Hear, hear. Ontario, where 8% increase in price is going to stimulate the economy.
Why was I born sane? I want to be as delusional as everybody around me to not feel this daily pain of realization that 'Everyone is f4cking insane and suicidal and is dragging me along'
Somewhere in the hills of North Dakota lives a rightoid rightard named Crocky Buffoon...
http://explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0b6r5-a_349.jpg
Yep, the EPA nutjobs who think that CO2 is 'gassing the planet'.
Gotta 'stampede the vote' to cap 'n trade and other bureaucratic bs disguised as a tax to siphon off billions into the unscrupulous hands of their political enablers.
All hail the Goracle and his accolytes...and financiers such as Soros, and UN apparatchiks like Maurice Strong.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"
Meanwhile in AGW land we have the following report:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100107/ap_on_re_us/us_winter_weather
"Dangerously cold wind chills were anticipated in the Midwest overnight, including as low as 35 below in eastern Nebraska, minus 45 in parts of South Dakota and negative 50 in North Dakota, according to National Weather Service warnings.
Another 10 inches of snow was expected in Iowa, buried in December by more than 2 feet of snow, while up to 9 inches could fall in southeast North Dakota that forecasters warned would create hazardous zero-visibility driving conditions. Wind gusts of 30 miles per hour were expected in Illinois — along with a foot of snow — while large drifts were anticipated in Nebraska and Iowa."
Ahh... warms my heart!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"
"The tighter standards will cost tens of billions of dollars to implement, but will ultimately save billions in avoided emergency room visits, premature deaths, and missed work and school days, the EPA said."
If only they were as concerned about the poisons they allow to be put into our food and water.
I get nervous when depopulationists all of a sudden get empathy for human maladies.
Poisons, like Fluoride?
But it's goood for the teeth, right?
Since I installed RO I did not have a single cavity. Prior to that was visiting a dentist for feelings twice a year.
The dental association recommends fluoride, it's good for them.
mikeSr, Cal2 and mj
The bottom line is: pollution is bad, but all things are not equal. It is obvious due to many factors, population being one, that jurisdictions like N.Dakota or Saskatchewan need not worry about "smog" at this time; therefore, any sweeping national standards are ridiculous and are strictly political(leftarded politics). The issue of pollution should be a case by case analysis. That would mean almost all of the sacrifice regarding smog falls on the shoulders of the heavily populated urban areas which tend vote Democrat. I’ll propose that the motive to have an all encompassing policy is more about transferring wealth and assuaging Democrat voters that everyone is "chipping in" than preserving the air quality in N.Dakota
In the end, the EPA and enviros are mainly concerned with dictating what others should do, because it's as I said: it is obvious that such measures are not necessary in all jurisdictions. Jurisdictions like N.Dakota and Saskatchewan should sell “Smog Credits” to jurisdictions like California to pay their “Smog Debt”.
Query: Since California has banned the sale of "big screen" TVs do you think that in the near future people in California will want all other jurisdictions to comply with their "big screen" TV ban?
Uh, Just realized I missed something:
"Smog is a respiratory irritant that has been linked to asthma attacks and other respiratory illnesses."
Muahahaha! I know what causes asthma, and I can tell you.
My son was diagnosed with it and they were going to put him on the puffers.
Fortunately, at that time we learned about MSG and changed the way we eat and asthma disappeared, vanished so to say. How convenient for three industries and one government: one industry poisons food, another diagnoses fake diseases, the third one provides fake cures, and the government forces all of us to cough up dough under the barrel of the gun to make it look like they are dealing with the issue. Right. Yeah.
Obama's war on Coal.
This is another example of Obama using the EPA to go where he couldn't with congress. (Killing fossil fuel development, especially coal, as an energy source for electricity).
From a "greenie "article:
"January 26, 2009
Obama’s top climate priority — higher even than passing a domestic cap-and-trade bill — is to stop new coal plants ,,,
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency placed a hold on approval of a coal-fired power plant in South Dakota, a move environmental groups say indicates increased scrutiny under President Barack Obama."
"Minnesota law requires that new power lines for a coal plant can only be approved when the applicant (usually a utility) proves that that costs less than using renewable energy or energy efficiency or some combination of the two."
"In short, this is a big set back for Big Stone II and a big victory for environmental advocates but the fight is far from over. It does signal however that the EPA under President Obama (still feels amazing writing that) will be taking a much harder look at proposed coal plants then they did during the Bush era. That coupled with Obama’s “green dream team” and recent stimulus developments are very good for anyone who cares about the future of our planet."
http://climateprogress.org/2009/01/26/obama-epa-blocks-south-dakota-coal-power-plant/
So now it's going to be "smog" instead of global warming. to kill coal development.
I'm fine with reducing smog. It is a problem that can be effectively managed with technology.
However, this has more to do with Obama keeping Gore and Soros happy than the health of Americans.
It's about keeping the "green" energy scam alive.
Pickens didn't sell all those wind turbines in Texas he has stored. He's just waiting for plan B and it's ensuing subsidies.
And it's just not Pickens waiting.
"save billions in avoided emergency room visits, premature deaths, and missed work and school days"
This is an effective argument which has been used for years by anti-smoking lobbyists.
Why is it effective? Number one, it sounds warm and fuzzy and gives the appearance of accomplishing something. Number two, and more importantly, it is virtually impossible to disprove. As for the number of missed work days ... anti-smoking zealots were fond of plugging in any ridiculous number that came to mind. Proof? None required. The end justifies the means.
It turns out that one of the main contributors to smog is pollen.
I live at the edge of the "green belt" in Ottawa, which turns out to be the world's largest milkweed and ragweed preserve - and I can assure you that it's true. Maybe we should rethink all those "pesticide", (herbicide) bans and break out the Killex.
NYT demonstrates the complete lack of numeracy that pervades the media, and serves to keep the trusting public confused:
"That's equivalent to 60 to 70 tennis balls in an Olympic-sized swimming pool full of a billion tennis balls. EPA will select a specific figure within that range later this year."
An "olympic-sized" swimming pool big enough to hold a billion tennis balls would have to be about 166 metres deep! Just the fact that the "journalist" writing this story felt the need to use such ridiculous laymen's measures of scale (tennis balls, OSSP) is indicative of their belief that the NYT readership is rather dense. I suppose that's not incorrect, though.
There it is again... the crouching of the need for climate control in terms of health protection. That's the new tack being taken by the AGW freaks.
Great. So we're going to pay more and big time for all the smog that "unscientifically" floats over Lake Michigan to SW Michigan from Chicago.
But that makes sense. President Obama is from chicago. Once again we're going to pay for his ..um.. pollutions.
Thanks Obama! Democrats 2011 "Hope for Change"
They probably need all these new rules to cover the mercury pollution that they caused when they mandated those stupid twisty light bulbs that are supposed to save the planet.
Or make Al Gore rich.
Posted by: Fred at January 7, 2010 2:58 PM
Actually, your New Conservative Government is the one that outlawed light bulbs, is readying a carbon tax, and is on the verge of declaring CO2 a pollutant (thanks Jimby Prentice! You can ask him yourself: 403 216-7777, Prentice.J@parl.gc.ca).
Once done, then we can hire more and more bureaucrats, and make the government waaaay huger!!! Well done Jimby!!!
"Environment Minister Jim Prentice said it was unfortunate that a prominent scientist was forced to resign because of revelations in the e-mails, but the government still believes the science is clear that human activity is causing climate change." Jim Prentice
"I'm convinced that the country, this country, will be a positive contributor to a realistic fight against climate change." PM Stephen Harper
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2398923/posts
When one Bureaucracy goes after another one, or is just the BBC jumping the shark?
Either way, it is fun to watch such a skank get a new butt hole ripped, even if it is the BBC doing the ripping.
Frik'n hilarious. Wonder if Peter Pansbridge would ever rip Dr. Fruit Fly like this guy?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/8443687.stm
I've never seen a smog problem in the Dakota's. Minneapolis? Has had one "bad air" day. One. Since the beginning of time.
GHWB was actually president during the clean air act amendments that are currently in place. They're actually the reason a lot of counties and states(CARB) are clamping down severely on truckers.
California is the scourge of the trucking industry. They don't even place logic behind their decisions. Recently their head researcher was discovered to be a fraud.
This sounds like a protection racket, doesn't. Oh wait, that is how things are done in Chicago.
The tighter you close your grip the less you can hold in your hand...
So businesses move out manufacturing to the more rural areas taking jobs and growth with them, thus leaving the cities to become the Detroits of the future to struggle under the repressive costs of an unemployed population.
The good news is that workers can migrate to smaller towns and re-connect with the true spirit of community and family.
I'll hazrd a guess that the Dakota have lots of cows farting, or a couple of REALLY smoggy aears around some remote mines for something.
Don't know how they measured though, frankly the once I visited I damn near had to be tied to car so as to not blow away
That's right hardboiled, darn Conservatives. Because any of the -other- four parties would be so much better, right?
Right?
At any rate, the Yanks are on the verge of having EPA regulations that don't allow vehicular traffic, power generation or home heating. Call me crazy, but I don't think that policy is going to last.
Apropos of which, the largest trucking company in the USA went bankrupt the other week. Fuel cost, regulations and diminishing prices, coupled with fewer loads to carry due to the recession busted them. Going to be seeing more of that, no doubt.
> So businesses move out
That's the plot, follow the money to find hu is interested and wen it will be over. You'll find this exercise very relak singh.
There's no goddamn smog in the Dakotas, you twerps!
*
well, it ain't all gloomy news, kids... looks like
cnn may be going over to the dark side.
*
Posted by: The Phantom at January 7, 2010 4:21 PM
No Phantom, it is because the Cons are pretty much identical to the Libranos on most policy. Now, please donate to the Conservative Party, and pay your Carbon Tax.
Maybe you'll get a nice CPC calender for 2010.
Remember, as Jimby says and your Conservative government believes: "human activity is causing climate change".
Money quote: "EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said in a statement Thursday that science, this time around, had been followed."
I wonder what she could be referring to?
Indiana Homez; I understand and believe as you do that local regulation to appropriate standards that do not create false dynamics is the ideal. My concern lies within a decision making process increasingly dependent on "expert" opinion. Scientific theoretical opinion which has lost credibility because of a lax approach to scientific protocols. I am probably in an older generation than most commenters to SDA and feel this lax adherence is a relatively recent event,about 25 years or so. If wrong then please advise examples of the disregard for open peer review and comment which is now apparently the norm compared with, what I believe WAS a period of valid scientific discourse 25 years ago. Cheers;
O'Ich Bin Ein Bush.
Leftists are in meltdown.
O is making enemies outta them Muslims.
Da proof? "The images speak for themselves: Nearly a year after taking office, Obama has now become an anti-terrorist president."
...-
"The World from Berlin
'How Much Bush Is There in Obama?'
Germany's left-wing Die Tageszeitung newspaper says US President Barack Obama is no "Prince of Peace."
"President Barack Obama has slammed the "near-disastrous" intelligence failures surrounding an attempted Christmas Day terror attack on a Northwest Airlines jetliner. Looking beyond his tough rhetoric, German commentators scratch their heads and wonder if he is getting a bit too much like his predecessor."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,670633,00.html
If people were true environmentalists rather than greedy hypocrites (hi, Al Gore), reducing smog and cleaning up lakes would be their top priorities, not enforcing ridiculous "green" policies.
Just my thoughts.
couple of years ago I read an article about the pollution drifting across the pacific to the west coast of USA, now if they force more companies to move to china, they will cause more dirty production, and more pollution to drift across the ocean
wonder why the SCIENTISTS never thought of this, or why the bureaucraps don't???
Gord Tulk
your suggestion that "imports" then be allowed only from those who meet equal standards had me rolling on the floor:-)))
sounds like the labour laws that they implemented here in Ontario some years ago, only took business a year or two to over come them, to the detriment of the workers
Obama is spending America into oblivion.
Next on the list. 12 million Mexicans become Legal before the fall election.
That to will cost nothing as all Obama programs start.
hardboiled: "Remember, as Jimby says and your Conservative government believes: "human activity is causing climate change"."
Right. And in the current media environment a clever politician would say what, exactly?
You post here a lot, always trashing the CPC. What's your alternative, Mr. boiled, sir?
While I'm by no means a gung ho CPC partisan, I do not see any alternatives to the CPC for people who want a smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation.
So how does a guvament 'enforce' this?
I have visions of the EPA squad blasting thru windows just like the squad in 'Monsters,Inc.'
to rid the community of the evil contaminated sock.
[quote]My concern lies within a decision making process increasingly dependent on "expert" opinion. Scientific theoretical opinion which has lost credibility because of a lax approach to scientific protocols. I am probably in an older generation than most commenters to SDA and feel this lax adherence is a relatively recent event,about 25 years or so [/quote]MikeSr
That is also my opinion.. something changed in most every profession.. PLL taking credit for the work of others in a weird cut & paste like presentation...
I would point to the attitude of Janet Napolitano "Every thing Worked”. She was taking credit for the action of those on the plane who stopped the bomber. That is not a normal judgment call for someone at her level.
The EPA is grasping for something to replace Co2(AGW) that will have the same results; that is destroying the American Economy.
It's a problem for the "think tank" folks... How do they (Obama) get out of the AGW mess without admitting it was a EU communist plot?