I Remember When...

I'm curious, really curious. I've got a lot of questions. Silly questions.

First - I need to know; I really need to know. What do grade 12 students from BC know about goat farming? Tell me, tell me.

And who paid for their trips? Oh, and who was going to buy the goats? And after they left, who was going to look after the goats?

And was there a market for these goats? And roads to take them to market? And even to process goat cheese and milk?

And...?

here's a real field trip, but since it is the Zionist Entity, CBC will ignore it.

at American Thinker

Israel's Disproportionate Response
Peggy Shapiro
In the midst of the tragedy and chaos in the Haitian capital, Israeli doctors, part of IsraAID -F.I.R.S.T. (the Israel Forum for International Aid), delivered a healthy baby boy in an IDF field hospital. When the baby's grateful mother, Gubilande Jean Michel saw her newborn son, alive and well, she named him Israel in gratitude to the people and nation who brought her this blessing.

Little Israel is one of the hundreds who have been saved by Israeli doctors or rescue teams. A search and rescue team from the ZAKA Israel's International Rescue Unit pulled eight Haitian college students from a collapsed eight-story university building. Despite its small size, Israel sent a large contingent of highly-trained aid workers to quake-stricken Haiti. Two jumbo jets carrying more than 220 doctors, nurses, civil engineers, and other Israeli army personnel, including a rescue team and field hospital, were among the first rescue teams to arrive in Haiti. In fact, they were the first foreign backup team to set up medical treatment at the partially collapsed main hospital in Port-au-Prince. Yigal Palmor, Israel's Foreign Ministry spokesman said, "It's a large delegation and we're prepared to send more."

The international agencies that condemn Israel for its "disproportionate response" when it is attacked are not mentioning Israel's disproportionate response to human suffering. The U.S. has pledged 100 million and sent supplies and personnel. The U.K. pledged $10 million and sent 64 firemen and 8 volunteers.China, a country with a population of 1,325,639,982 compared to Israel's 7.5 million sent 50 rescuers and seven journalists. The 25 Arab League nations sent nothing."

Er, actually, this sounds like a somewhat valuable exercise. At the very least, it would teach them some responsibiltiy and let them get a look at how complex systems actually work.

However...

One would think it would be cheaper and somewhat more valuable from a duplicatability standpoint (is that a word?) if they did it somewhat closer to home. Are there no available goats in BC?

I think you could be sure of one thing, And that is.
All hell would have broke lose from the bleeding hearts/msm/opposition in Canada if something had of happened to this group.
And who knows when things in Haiti calm down that we dont see that happen by the MSM looking to interview the feel good group for a feel good story with a twist of skewer the Govt for even allowing then to venture such a trip to such a volatile country period.

ET I think your goat cheese slipped off the cracker. These are Grade 12 students. If it was like my son's trip to Greece then there were a lot of chocolate covered almonds sold, a lot of cars washed etc. Actually, the trip itself to see first hand how life is in the third world could probably be classified as a life experience. Having an earthquake was a bonus in that they could see how disasters can affect life rather than seeing on the National (if they watch tv at all).

If, on the other hand it was a taxpayer dollar venture then I apologize.

Greece isn't Haiti. I wonder, were all the spots to Somalia taken?

I agree with Kate. Taking a bunch of school kids to a place where you're more likely than not to be car-jacked is not particularly clever.

ET, those weren't silly questions. They were stupid. It sounds like a very typical mission-type trip, and what better way to become a better citizen? I would bet they did their own fundraising, and hey, I'm sure that all the logistics about the goats had already been considered, don't you think? They wouldn't have just been showing up with a suitcase full of goats. These "kids" will never forget their experiences. Could be future doctors, politicians, nurses, hey even construction workers that will KNOW what these desperately poor nations need. Just sayin'

Well, t beats a trip to a box factory...

I was impressed the kids pooled their money for rice.

At the very least, perhaps they'll return with a newly found respect for the vicissitudes of life and death in the real world rather than the happy-clappy one they are usually exhorted to imagine in their classrooms.

ET: And why would they need to go down to Haiti to study goat farming?

Texas Canuck: "Having an earthquake was a bonus"

That depends whether you like having cement cinder blocks dropping onto your child's head.

sf, time to let the little snowflakes learn about life. More than a few aid organizations are working in that country and relatively speaking, it is a bit higher on the civilized chain than Somalia, although not by much. I probably not recommend a field trip to North Korea either.

wendy.g: "These 'kids' will never forget their experiences"

Yes, it's true, when my father was robbed at knife-point twice in the same week in a third world city he never forgot the experience either.

Hmmmmmm.......goats........?

I smell horny seventeen year old Jihadists.

Texas Canuck: clearly you don't have even the slighest idea what Haiti is like off the resort. You are totally clueless. Haiti makes Jamaica look like Walt Disney World.

http://www.travelersdigest.com/top_dangerous_locations.htm

Haiti
By far the most dangerous & lawless country in the Caribbean, Haiti has one thing in common with a few other places on this list, it was once invaded by the United States.

Where to I sign up to send my teenager to Haiti?

Texas Canuck: here's some more Haiti tavel info for the kids:

Crime

The security situation is hazardous and unpredictable. Canadians who travel to Haiti must be vigilant throughout the country. There is criminal activity, especially in large centres such as downtown Port-au-Prince and Gonaïves, where some armed gangs continue to operate. Since the beginning of 2007, actions by the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH) to disband criminal gangs and ensure the safety of citizens have been successful in substantially reducing crime in the area north of Port-au-Prince, and particularly in Cité-Soleil. Many gang leaders have been arrested and others have fled the capital. Despite this progress, kidnappings in parts of the capital previously considered safe from criminal activity still persist, although at a lower rate than in previous years. The areas of Pétion-Ville, Thomassin, Kenscoff and Furcy have been targeted in this regard.

Although travel in the provinces presents less of a risk once beyond the suburbs of Port-au-Prince, travellers are advised to exercise extreme caution and not to travel after dark.

Murder, kidnapping, armed robberies, burglaries, and carjackings have been known to occur even in daylight hours. The general Haitian population, regardless of level or social class, can be considered at risk of being kidnapped. Although rare, there have been kidnappings involving Canadians and other foreign nationals, including missionaries, aid workers and children. Most victims have been released after paying ransoms. However, in some exceptional cases, victims have disappeared or have been killed.

Avoid walking alone at all times. Keep car windows closed and doors locked when travelling. Avoid showing visible signs of affluence, such as wearing expensive-looking jewellery or cameras. Remain cautious with new acquaintances offering friendship or hospitality. Foreigners, including Canadians, are viewed as wealthy. Travellers should comply and not resist if attacked.

Remain alert to small groups of loiterers, especially near your residence. Keep doors and windows secure at all times. Instruct domestic staff to only permit pre-authorized visitors whose identities have been verified into your home. Keep all visitors under close supervision.

Personal and luggage security cannot be guaranteed at the Port-au-Prince airport. Arriving passengers are often overwhelmed by the large crowd of loiterers outside the terminal who pretend to offer porter or taxi services. Canadians have been arrested for drug trafficking after they agreed to check in bags for new acquaintances.

Avoid photographing individuals without obtaining their approval first. Be cautious when photographing scenes in poorer or urban areas, where people may feel exploited or insulted by being subjects of such activities.

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=117000

"Greece isn't Haiti. I wonder, were all the spots to Somalia taken?'

Exactly!

Just as I wouldn't let my daughter go overnight to a Powwow at a reserve with her friend and mother last December(to no applause from my daughter), I would not allow my daughter to go to Haiti regardless of the reason why, or who she's with. Not even if Jack Bauer was chaperone!

sf, I didn't say it was a resort. There are organizations that work there to help those who need it so I'm pretty sure those BC kids didn't show up at the airport and thumb a rde to their location. Don't forget that there were thousands of Canadians there and not all were dual passporters either.

btw, I was in Bermuda when they had racial riots. Be careful yes, but don't get paranoid. Hell, there are parts of Toronto I wouldn't go to even in the daylight.

send your kids down to Haiti with a bunch know nothing chaperones, reeeeeeeeeeeal smart I say.

friend of mine went to D.R.
next door and damn near got killed, and it's relatively civilized in the D.R.

if you ain't bin to one of these third world crapholes, do so before you send your kids there

imagine if the unthinkable happened and this group was caught in a collapsed building. field trips, travel clubs, sports travel etc. would ALL be stopped immediately by every school board across the country, experience or not one thinks of the repercussions of our choices

I think a similar situation could happen with a school group down at disneyland if a big earthquake hit California. I have only respect for these kids, using their time and money to do good. I'm pretty sure their security would have been taken care of, until the quake happened. That's what changed the story. They aren't the first or only group to go down there.

This school field trip looks to be similar to many church sponsored missions I have heard of to places in Latin America. In fact, the group stayed at a mission, Haiti Arise, while they were there:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/bc_slocan_students_100114/20100115/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Excuse my clumsy attempt at a theological explanation, but many Christians feel a duty to serve those less fortunate, and that can mean more than just writing checks. People go to many places, from soup kitchens in downtown Edmonton, to third world countries and do what they can to help, even if it is just to provide manual labor or hand out rice.

These groups typically raise their own money and try to provide a service to those less fortunate than themselves. At the very least, these acts of "service" make the kids a little more appreciative of what they have at home.

My goodness. Grade 12 students (some of them likely old enough to vote or do military service, are you against that too?) trying to good works in a poor country? The HORROR! We must protect them! Will no one think of the CHILDREN?

Seriously, Kate, what's the bug up your butt on this one? They made a choice to actually venture out and attempt to change something in the world for the better and you have gall to ridicule them?

I thought better of you.

There was a time when Canadians (pre 1948 so actually Newfoundlanders) were made of sterner stuff.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem/Detail&casualty=722386

I wonder how he would respond to modern teenagers and their chaperones panicking because they did not have telephone contact?

A dismal view into our feminized schools and their helping caring abilities.

When the going gets tough the kids demand cel phone access or mummys warm blankie. Pathetic.

I guess the most telling point of this story for me was that the kiddies had a REAL life experience that I'm sure would leave a lifelong impression...eg earthquake ,death,destruction,mass chaos,survival of some by methods reserved for the seamier side of life etc.

An unfortunate situation but nontheless a solid encounter with reality beyond Hollywood and video games.
However I'm sure once back home,the 'victim patrol' in the guise of compassionate counselling services will work wonders at putting a gloss coat over the experience;(one even Walt Disney would approve)..so at least the fainter hearted witnesses from this billy goat junket can hope to function in their future lives.

Ah yes...the compassion industry...how did we manage for so many millenia without them ?

wendy.g

I'm going to wager a guess, I bet you don't have any kids, do you wendi.g?

If yes, are you saying that you would allow your teen to visit Haiti on a field trip with her/his class before the earthquake regardless of how noble the cause?

Texas Canuck:

Just the fact that you compare Bermuda and Toronto to Haiti is saying something.

Wendy.g thinks it's clever to compare California to Haiti.

You people have no idea.

The fact is, in Haiti there is no help available when things go bad, and in fact even the most experienced and careful travellers can be attacked in Haiti in broad daylight.

If you travel to Haiti enough, you WILL be attacked, guaranteed. If you travel to Haiti to help with the earthquake, you may very well see something like this:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/751792--mob-justice-in-haiti?bn=1#photo

I can guarantee you, that's not something you will see in Bermuda, California, or Toronto.

I just remember field trips to the ROM were we would skip out and check out the headshops on Yonge st. :-)

Actually, I have 4 children, 16-26. And I wouldn't know what I'd think about sending any of them off on such a trip, since I would now be making the decision based on what we've seen, wouldn't I? My whole point was, it's amazing to see these young people do humanitarian work. Much has been done in Haiti by people just like them, who've caught the vision of helping others.

Texas Canuck:

Just the fact that you compare Bermuda and Toronto to Haiti is saying something.

Wendy.g thinks it's clever to compare California to Haiti.

You people have no idea.

The fact is, in Haiti there is no help available when things go bad, and in fact even the most experienced and careful travellers can be attacked in Haiti in broad daylight,when there is no riot nor earthquake. Add a riot or an earthquake and you're in deep trouble.

If you travel to Haiti enough, you WILL be attacked, guaranteed. If you travel to Haiti to help with the earthquake, you may very well see something like the photo shown in the toronto star (google "Mob justice in Haiti - thestar")

I can guarantee you, that's not something you will see in Bermuda, California, or Toronto.

Good post Fred.

There are places in the world where a white skin colour makes you a target to be attacked, and where the rule of law is absent, and it doesn't matter how young or old you are. Haiti is one of those places. I don't think any self-respecting parent should ever send a child to Haiti on a field trip.

Having been to a couple of places that are not terribly safe, that's how I feel about it.

I dunno. Isn't REAL life experience sort of like NATURAL ingredients? Cholera's a REAL life experience. Arsenic is a NATURAL ingredient.

djb - I know these kids. Not these exact kids, but kids just like them, archaeology field-school kids: Middle-class kids with well-off parents who don't really want them around. And, sadly enough, they are children. They shouldn't be, but they sure are.

And what's so helpful to humanity about raising goats in Haiti for a few weeks?

And a make-work project for the grief counselors back home.

Ive always supported the idea That after high school Our young folks should be given a tax or sum to travel cheaply in a another Country or several for 6 months to see the World compared to Canada.Particularly those headed for University. Much better use of tax dollars than sending Lynch of HRC infamy. To Somalia to hear about "Human rights" or the many Junkets by fat politicians.
Truly exposing teens to the real world early will protect them from socialist nonsense.
JMO

"I'm pretty sure their security would have been taken care of, until the quake happened. That's what changed the story."

You don't let kids go to a violent cess pool like Haiti to do humanitarian work quake or no quake.

You also can't make ridiculous claims about California & Haiti being the same in how they would respond to an earthquake.

One is a modern democracy with resources, technology and infrastructure the other is...well you know.

There's enough established aid agency's there already. A couple of goats ain't gonna make a hill 'o beans of difference to anyone.

It was obviously some dumbass do-gooder (see progessive) teacher who thought this thing up in the first place.

Travelling to another part of the world and trying to do some good is a far better educational venture than visiting the mall, a museum, art gallery or other politically correct, safe, smarmy, nanny state venue. These kids now recognize what it's really like out there and will suffer no future delusions when they are asked to swallow the pap on the 10 o'clock news, or in comments logged on internet forums.

My daughter went to build a small library in a remote village in mainland China. It wasn't a comfortable feeling to let her go, but let her go we did, and she came back a more knowledgeable person.

Let's face it - even in Canada kids get shot on trips to the mall.

And I'd bet that there was some knowledge about goat farming among those kids and their chaperons, as they came from an area of BC where people have been known to raise livestock.

I feel proud of those kids for going, and proud of the parents and chaperons for having the guts and organizational skills to pull off a trip of that complexity. The earthquake was an unfortunate and unforeseen event that destroyed their plans and dreams. Instead of mewling on here that they risked life and limb and should have stayed home and studied Political Science, we should be contributing to a fund that would give them a second chance to do the good they set out to do.

My question is if these kids could even tell the bucks from the does? I don't have near as much trouble with the kids going down there if they could actually pass on some knowledge or material but I have a sneaking hunch the local Haitians know more about goats than their benefactors. To paraphrase my father, "Son that Haitian has forgotten more about goats than you will ever know".

A couple of goats wouldn't make much of a difference to a Canadian, no. But to a Haitian? Wow, that would've meant the world.

kakola - "...even in Canada kids get shot on trips to the mall."

Oh, not very often.

Why don't the Haitians set up their own goat farms? Why do they need upper-middle-class whitebread yahoos in Che Guevara t-shirts to help them?
Maybe I'm just being cynical....

I am surprised that the school board would allow such a trip at all. My son went to Europe the year after 9/11. He was in grade 11 at the time. There was a lot of talk about whether or not they would be allowed to go due to liability considerations. If something happened, who would get sued. We almost were to the point that we had to arrange it as a none school affiliated trip to appease the school board. There is no way that I would have allowed him to go to Haiti. I can't see how the school board would be okay with that. Imagine if something had happened to those kids, earthquake or not.

Haiti was probably a bad choice to send kids to considering they probably had other choices if they wanted to help people. Lots of places in Canada where they could help out. Then again in Canada they would have to deal with yucky poor people not exotic poor people. They are very lucky to be alive.

I would guess that the goats would have been killed and eaten befor the kids even got back home.

Next year take the class on a road trip to Detroit.

At 15, I went on a mission trip to Mexico. We worked in the Mexico City dump. Over 1 million people lived in the dump. I know of dozens of kids that have gone on similar trips to Haiti precisely because it is so bad.

Let the kids graduate from grade twelve first, and then they can pay their own way to travel to hell holes to set up goat farms.

Ridiculous, condescending mission.

Vmaximus, how long ago was that?

"since I would now be making the decision based on what we've seen, wouldn't I?"

C'mon wendi.g and kakola, it's not about the earthquake!

I checked with my friend (Haitian born) and he concurred that it is lunacy to send your teen child to Haiti on a field trip. Unless you are visiting family, it is a high risk activity. I also went to Jamaica with a Jamaican family to visit their family. I can assure you that outside tourist destinations, crackers should not be traveling. The fact that I was visiting locals made all the difference. Give your heads a shake!

There are no earthquakes in Saskatchewan, but I'm not going to send my child to the aforementioned native reserve and risk her being raped or murdered in a lawless environment regardless of her progressive plea that “they’re nice people”! You can not argue that sending your child into a lawless country is not risky behaviour, even if the people are “nice”.

The next time you're watching a beheading on the internet, just try and think about what the poor sap losing his head thought when he hopped on the plane to dirkadirkastan: that won't happen to me.

BTW, wendy.g; I know you wouldn’t, because you didn’t!

I know african black culture tradition and somalian indian like Goat meat but majority of people do not like goat meat since smells and more fat and less meat to it and this cheaper meat compare with lamb and cow

what is more strange

In 1946, the Manhattan Engineer District published a study that concluded that 66,000 people were killed at Hiroshima out of a population of 255,000.

NOw Haiti earthquck was so strong like kill
1.5 time more killed in compare with Hiroshima
bomb

are you sure nobody did any nuclear activities under water caused this disaster
since this is strange to
all those peopel died

Are you sure all change doen recently all
are climate change not man made some crazy change interfer in climate change under water all to me strange
I never heard that kind of earth quak and dead people ever in history?????

may be some criminal doing something or
just they face bad fate and bad luck

====

how can investigate

==

I look at face of Haiti are similar like Kenya or somalian face or Egyption kind of nice looking black people they could hire them to work as
actor, sing or entertainment in hollywood or politican for their look
===
I also heard all criminal prison are free now in Haiti since jail was down too
now we can see more drug sell every where
===
may be quick solution
rather than send doctore there to bring them to some countries

bring Haiti people or some of tem like temporary refugee base to few countries close by
fix thier country
return them back

this is better to save more life
to keep them in their home land hungry and dead and injured with no doctor

why not transfer thier peopel rather than transfer the food can 0nly help them few days

who can pay all cost of transportation to them
this is more costly to send food to them
this is better to ship them to any island or country or Cuba or even canada and US for refugee
in temporary basis

at least they can save area who hit more to the eartquack , god and good people neeed to help those people

or bring all US vocation cruise and let peopel live in cruis temporaty clost to theri sea land those cruise line ship if their house destroy untill they can have home fix or any ready made home transfer there

Joe at 6:50
That's really funny! LOL
And I agree with you they probably wouldn't know the male goats from the female ones..