California: Not Dysfunctional Enough!

Wait, haven't we spent decades and $$$ trying to ban smoking from every public and private corner, California included, but now we want to merrily allow people to smoke pot?

Politicians can be idiots.

Let's hope they don't pass this law or we'll lose many of our best and brightest here in B.C. as they flood across the border to bask in the sun of California.

I call on Premier Campbell to legalize pot in B.C., and I personally volunteer to run the franchise.

the Temperance Wagon nutbars are gonna drop their tambourines over this one.

I've always thought that the war on drugs was and is a colossal waste of time and resources, but I wouldn't for a minute think that ending it is the key to financial health for California or anywhere else.

as soon as I saw the title on drudge concerning this I thought of the lost potential of CO2 scam taxes, goofyfornia needs to stay ahead of the tax curve, welfare is a pressing issue:-)))

And, of course, it's a well-known fact that there are no moonshiners in Wackyfornia.

I'm not sure that the $990 M they are projecting to raise will make much a dent in the expected $40 B shortfall in 2009-10. Also, I wonder if that allows for the costs of the massive bureaucracy that will inevitably be required to deal with this new program?

......and would help fund drug eradication and awareness programs.

Sweet ,sweet irony .

As a signatory of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 the U.S. federal government will not permit it.

The U.S. federal government would be obligated to crack down on it or it would mean the end of the entire international drug war as it now exists, not just the marijuana part of it.

"Pot and prosperity" - they go together like "bag lady and shopping cart".
Posted by Kate at January 12, 2010 1:04 PM

You should see Amsterdam sometime. I lived and worked there.

It works wonders on those who can't understand how freedom can be reconciled with personal responsibility. Tolerance doesn't need to equate with support.

Down on gays, up in smoke California is a joke!

[If they buy their pot from BC and the feds get to tax it and my taxes go down significantly, I may be persuaded to reconsider.]

Why should have to pay tax on my beer while potheads get away tax free?

Who cares?

If these cretins were on the real cutting edge of progressive thought, they would be banning peanuts on all flights......;)

Well,it's finally happening...The monkeys are taking over the zoo

Is Dysfunctional another word for Liberal?
Think of Caledonia when you read this report:

http://www.minesandcommunities.org/article.php?a=961
and this from the CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/09/23/bc-moose-hunt-blockade.html
"Local First Nations want to stop what they call the "open season" on moose in their traditional territories and are worried about over-hunting. They are telling hunters already in the area to leave.

"[We] don't want our moose to end up like the fish in the Fraser," said Annita McPhee, chair of the Tahltan Central Council,"
Nah! It's not about mining.

California . . . following the best advice of Sean Penn and employing the Chavez effect

http://tinyurl.com/ydujx34

I think that this might be a good idea. I don't think it will balance any budgets but it will generate revenue and allow the state to manage pot consumption and pot farming, etc. It will get rid of pot cartels (if there are any) and it will definitely save big money in the criminal justice system, policing, etc.

I've been to the Netherlands a few times and I know they have legalized and controlled soft drugs for a while now and that there soft drug usuage has actually decreased quite a bit in comparison to the US (based on what I had read there) and the gov't has saved/made a lot of money to boot.

I'm not sure about hard drugs. If there was a way to control and distribute or regulate hard drugs that would shut down Afstan, central America and Asia, and still keep people safe then that would be good as well.

California arrests more than 70,000 people each year for marijuana possession - not trafficking - at an estimated cost of $170 million for police, courts, and incarceration. Since incarceration alone costs $35,000 per prisoner per year, this suggests that fewer than 4,000 people are actually jailed for a year for possession.

2 million Californians admitted to smoking pot in the last 30 days, according to a recent poll. Say the average user lights up once a week; that's about 3 ounces per year. $50/ounce tax * 3 * 2 million = $300 million. Assume an equal amount is spent by visitors to California. Total savings and new revenue: $170 million in foregone war on drugs costs, + $300 million from Californians + $300 million from visitors.

Adds up to less than $1 billion, and they have a $40 billion deficit. Don't see how this is going to cure the situation, but at least people will be mellowing out...

Amsterdam is quite the example of what happens when pot is legalized. Along with it comes all the other things we love in our neighborhoods.

I think that this might be a good idea. I don't think it will balance any budgets but it will generate revenue and allow the state to manage pot consumption and pot farming, etc. It will get rid of pot cartels (if there are any) and it will definitely save big money in the criminal justice system, policing, etc.

I've been to the Netherlands a few times and I know they have legalized and controlled soft drugs for a while now and that there soft drug usuage has actually decreased quite a bit in comparison to the US (based on what I had read there) and the gov't has saved/made a lot of money to boot.

I'm not sure about hard drugs. If there was a way to control and distribute or regulate hard drugs that would shut down Afstan, central America and Asia, and still keep people safe then that would be good as well.

cconn, maybe you should dial back a bit on the weed yourself.

That way you won't forget about hitting the "post" button and making the same comment twice.

Tom Ammiano, having played a large role in making San Francisco what it is today (board of "education", board of supervisors) is now devoting his energies to taking the rest of the state down the same path.

Barring another bike accident or something similar, or the offer of my dream job here (something that employers haven't been lining up to do), I'll be gone in four months, and the state, Santa Clara county, and the city of Mountain View will lose yet another taxpayer who puts minimal demands on state and local government.

This is where I differentiate myself from being between a Conservative and a Libertarian...I think California has a good idea but if they think they could control and massively tax the product like they are suggesting they are in for a rude awakening. Pot is super easy to grow into a good potent quality product. It's the main reason why governments will not legalize pot: It's too easy to grow, dry and smoke.
You can't grow tobacco in your garden and expect to just dry it and expect the smoke to be as smooth as your pack of Players or DuMaurier.
Same thing with booze...Oh sure some save a few bucks by brewing their own beer or wine, but who can claim they come up with a decent drink?...Every one I've tasted was inferior to the purchased stuff. Hard booze is too dangerous to even consider legalizing stills.

So, forget collecting 50$ an ounce for weed...They could save tremendous amounts in the legal system though...But that would put a lot of lawyers and other layers of gov. out of work so expect much resistance.

Why $50? I'm not a user, is that comparable to liquor or tobacco tax?

"Oh sure some save a few bucks by brewing their own beer or wine, but who can claim they come up with a decent drink?...Every one I've tasted was inferior to the purchased stuff."
Posted by: Right Honorable Terry Tory at January 12, 2010 2:30 PM

Whoa whoa whoa. Hit the brakes pal. You've gone over the line on that one.

You want a coloured vinegar drink, head down to your local government owned retail outlet.

You want a smooth dinner wine, an evening refreshment, a palate stimulator, you need Smitty's tried and true naturally aged fermented fruit beverage.

You'll never support state run booze'n barf again.

So if you buy an ounce you send the State 50 bucks? I can see de-criminalizing or not throwing people in jail but legal? Too easy to by-pass the government. Would I pay tire or electronics taxes if I could avoid it? Rycycle fees on my milk carton? I can't see how it would be enforced. Throw people with counterfeit dope in jail?

hardboiled.....I have seen Amsterdam.....many times and it is a disgrace. Even the Dutch are now seeing it and are putting the clamps on.

KevinB said: "Say the average user lights up once a week; that's about 3 ounces per year."

Whoooaaaa Baby,,,,,,, don't mean to be dis-respectfull and all, but you might want to rethink that one. The average user blows thru an OZ per month if not more. California Medical Marijuana is around $100 an ounce, if the Gummint takes 1/2 that the other $50 bucks goes into the economy. So, that would be $100*12*2 Million. Not to mention; California's population right now from the US Census stands at roughly 37 Million, plus 5-10 Million Illegal Mexicans that's close to, oh say, 45 Million, and more than likely 1/2 those smoke pot. Why the hell else would you live in California ? So, that figure could be $100*12*20 Million.

I say legalize it, Tax the hell out of it and then cut the Budgets to ATF, the Drug Czars, the Police Dept., and finally the Prisons, the Detention Centers and the Drunk Tanks. And, it would devastate Mexico, and that my Fellow SDAer would be a MAJOR BONUS.

Of course, the downside is this will kill the TV show COPS who won't have any bums to bust anymore.
,

Don't forget to tax the munchies!

Hard booze is too dangerous to even consider legalizing stills.
~Right Honorable Terry Tory

Distillation was legally prohibited because here because the generation at the time of the prohibition often made the copper condensing coils from used automobile gas lines to build their reflux condensers.(stills)
The coils were lined with lead from the gasoline and people were poisoned and blinded by the lead content leached out by the alcohol, not the booze itself.

I'm sure people here could use clean new copper piping today and distill alcohol with zero ill effect or even acquire glass piping or stainless steel for the condenser coils just as people do in New Zealand today where private distillation of alcohol is still legal and widely practised.

Why legalize the sale of pot in California when the hippies who have been in possession of the drug illegally in the first place and running the state into the mess it is into today.

Paging Dalton MacGuinty! Paging Dalton MacGuinty!
Another sin tax from California for you to contemplate for the citizens of Ontario.

Legalize it all but don't tax or control it in any manner.
I say you have the right smoke or stick whatever you want into your body. I however should have the freedom not to pay for any of the results (i.e. medical care or treatment) and I'm fully prepared step over your dieing body and spit on you as I do so. I also reserve the freedom to shoot you dead if your right to abuse your body impacts my right to live unmolested.

Never insulate anyone from the consequences of their choices. If death is the result - so be it.
Dave.

Judging by the number of recreational users, I wouldn't think that drug awareness needs more funding.

As a fair citizen in the wackier bay area part of wacky Cali, I can safely say that cannabis is already legal here. And it's being taxed. All you need is a cannabis card which anybody with any urge whatsoever can obtain.

Just remember friends, dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope.

I couldn't resist. :)

Considering the HUGE Costs of non-legalized drugs: (wasted) law enforcement, incarceration, violence ancilliary crime (Because so many drugs are illegal. it forces the growers, distrubuters and consumers to settle their differences of opinion the hard way, rather than some commercial way.)

I think it should all be legalized on the Beer model, you can brew/distill/grow as much as you can use personally, but may not sell.

Commercial sellers must have the usual commercial licenses and pass inspections and pay taxes.

As to the objections I remind everyone that Beer was not legal to self brew legally inthe US until quite recently, and relegalizing caused no fuss (Ditto the wine types). Distillation is alive and well in New Zealand (1000's of stills), and some European countries without causing everyone to drop dead. Laudanum ( Opium in a alcohol base, IIRC) was OTC for well over a century... yes, people got hooked, no it wasn't a huge deal and didn't give rise to massive criminality.

Prohibition in the US was a disaster creating a powerful organized criminal class almost from nothing, repealing it wasn't, & prohibition encouraged the use of harder alchohol ( easier to ship for smugglers ).

History has shown that given legality *most* people who are keen on it consume fairly responsibly and it results in less crime, and general governmentally driven stupidity and fraud & violence.

Of course you'd have to change the law to make "underthe influence" a serious aggrvating factor too.

Another reason why drugs should be banned.

We should ban stealing, prostitution, and riding bikes without helmets too then, just so's everyone is safe.

Even the Dutch are now seeing it and are putting the clamps on.
Posted by: John Luft at January 12, 2010 2:55 PM

Shame they're ain't a bullshit meter on posters who either have no idea what they're talking about - or are deliberately putting out false info.

For those curious, you might want to look up the concept of 'crimogene'.

Excellent logic.

Shawn @ January 12, 2010 1:26 PM

'Also, I wonder if that allows for the costs of the massive bureaucracy that will inevitably be required to deal with this new program?'

True, Shawn, California would incur costs setting up government pot shops...However,

we in Canada have them in the form of government liquor stores. No up front costs.

I don't toke, but since alcohol is more lethal than pot, may as well collect $40 per sale.

There could be as many tokers in BC as there are drinkers.

There's no stopping it. May as well make it cleaner, safer and more tax worthy.

It's why the end of prohibition signaled the death of organized crime.

Ratt, baby, let's say everything you say is true.

12 * 100 * 20 million = $24 billion. Cuts their deficit in half, OK, but they still have close to a $20 billion deficit to deal with.

And an OZ a month? Maybe for 1970's pot that was 3-5% THC, but today's superpot at 20-25% THC level? I have a friend who uses medical marijuana, and he tells me that he can barely get through half a joint. And he doesn't feel the need to smoke every day, just a few days a week. (By the way, he holds down a responsible job in IT, just for those who think smoking pot makes you a lazy degenerate.) I don't doubt there are some who do use that much, and maybe more, but I would guess the average smoker gets high on weekends, but Sunday to Friday leaves it alone.

hardboiled.....Amsterdam is a disgrace. Been there many more times than you, no doubt. Although probably not as stoned as you. Druggies tend to defend their habit.

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
-- Thomas Jefferson

In fact, if you want to see all the carnage, and drug addled crime and mayhem that goes on in Amsterdam right here:

http://www.eyelogue.com/donniecam.html

Or, maybe you'll just see a beautiful northern European city that's safe, clean, and has tasty pannekoken and genever.

Yes Kate, and if only the end of the war on drugs would signal the death of our current government.

I've been saying for a while that “potheads are nuts” wishing for legalization. Say good-bye to the $10g! Pot is the only product I'm aware of that is immune to inflation.

Comparing pot to cigarettes is ridiculous considering tobacco kills you and pot doesn't. The only thing they have in common is the intake method. In my little moral world, pot is by far less destructive than cigarettes, alcohol and any other hard drug. You simply must look at the harm wrought on society/families comparatively; although, I'm not condoning the prohibition of the others nor supporting the legalization of pot.

Vit, thanks for that timely quote.

The vast majority of our politicians, even so called conservatives, do not even pay lip service to Thomas Jefferson's thoughts. They have been too exposed to the Marxist view and not enough to that of classical liberalism.